Trash Talk

[mountainman]

As if trash talking and self-contratulation haven't already reached critical mass in the nfl, a high school all star game I watched the other day convinced me that the future holds worse. Players posed, strutted, danced, and got in -and I mean RIGHT in- each other's faces after almost every play. I mean these kids were so self-absorbed and disrespectful of opponents that Ocho Cinco should have taken notes. Touchdowns, first downs, long receptions, long runs, ANY reception or ANY run, sacks, tipped passes and routine tackles are all occasions for extended celebrations in today's nfl -no matter the score or significance of the play. Think it can't get any worse? Wana bet? Just wait until this high school class gets to the big show.

[ElKabong]

It's a monkey see- monkey do world of athletics. Has been for a long time, Mark. John McEnroe ring a bell? That was 30 years ago (hard to believe, I know). Joe Don Looney? 45 years ago. A few of the old NY Giants and Chi Bears greats on defense from the 1960s were big trash talkers. That was ~ fifty yrs ago.

As long as pros do what they do, so will kids. Only way to change their behavior is to change the pro's behavior and that ain't happening.

The kid (i think) you're referring to was Dorsey, a FSU commit. He was jawjacking Mike Davis (UT commit) constantly for a quarter, was miked up. Clearly obvious Dorsey was trying to show up another player...When Davis scored a TD on Dorsey, the predictable happened...Payback is hell.

[PhantomOnTour]

Trash talking is one thing, and showing up your opponent is another.

Yes, trash talking has been around for awhile but the celebrating that goes on after making a ROUTINE play has not. I believe the current age of taunting/dancing/over-celebrating began at the University of Miami, Fla. It is now accepted and expected for the most part.

Miami was the first school to recruit the inner city black athlete en masse. Nebraska and Oklahoma etc. had recruited them but not in the numbers that Miami did. The rest of the country caught on after a few years (and titles).

Take a poor child with nothing and give him an education and amenities, put him in the nat'l spotlight, give him status, and you had better believe he's gonna celebrate like hell. He's a happy young man!

What began at the U, in my opinion, has become par for the course today. Nonetheless, I also think its a bit ridiculous. It has gone too far.
Sack-yes.
TD-yes
Interception-yes
Fumble Recovery-yes
Big first down-yes
Routine tackle after 5yd gain-NO!

[cj]

I don't have a big problem with trash talking when it is between a couple of players. Talking is part of the game, trying to get in another guys head. I used it for years playing basketball. However, I will say rarely if ever did another person know it was happening. I wasn't showing up an opponent, just messing with him.

The showboating stuff has gotten out of hand. When you are demeaning another person, nothing good is going to happen. Luckily, the best players are usually not the ones acting this way.

I saw a great example from a young player last night that most people probably didn't even notice. The Thunder were playing the Bulls, and Brad Miller took a cheap foul on Kevin Durant, who scored anyway. He gave a small fist pump facing away from Miller, but you could see Miller jawing at him. Durant merely kept walking away, made his free throw, and continued on to help blow out the Bulls in Chicago. There are still some classy guys in sports, like Peyton Manning, Derek Jeter, etc. that hopefully set the example others will eventually emulate.

[ElKabong]

Mark Gastineau was the first really flambouyant defensive player that I can recall. To me he seemed like the typical Oklahoma white trash punk* with a mullet hair cut with no idea of how to condct himself in any situation whatsoever.

Offensively, there was Warren Mcvea and Billy White Shoes Johnson dogging it up, but they didn't really show up the opps like TO Owens or his ilk do today.

McVea was quite the showboat @ Brackenridge HS, no one really minded since he didn't sirect it at opponents.

*"Oklahoma white trash punk". Yes, I know Oklahoma has more Troy Aikman's and Spencer Tilman's than Gastineau's. Okla gets an undeserved bad rap....It's just a stereotype Gastineau couldn't shake, nor apparently wanted to.

[Robert Goren]

What began at the U, in my opinion, has become par for the course today. Nonetheless, I also think its a bit ridiculous. It has gone too far.
Sack-yes.
TD-yes
Interception-yes
Fumble Recovery-yes
Big first down-yes
Routine tackle after 5yd gain-NO!None of the above if you are ahead or behind by 3 TDs.

[DanG]

We can’t leave agents out of the equation when they drill into young men’s heads to separate themselves from the team to increase their marketability.

I also think we need to separate the television era from radio because its impossible to speculate how Ty Cobb for example would have come across on You Tube.

As far as the modern / media blitz phenomenon goes; Muhammad Ali was certainly a role model for a generation drawing attention to ones self.

Having said all that…the current soup Nazi tactics when young athlete celebrates a touchdown has gone WAY too far imo.

[mountainman]

It's not that I'm some paragon of sportsmanship. Back during my teens, as an intimidating fastball pitcher and borderline big-league prospect, I would walk past the other team's dugout and warn them to not even swing. In fact, I would promise to plunk any batter who even took aggressive WARM-up cuts. Sometimes I meant it.
I was likewise obnoxious concerning hoops. Before tipoff I'd tell the guy guarding me that any attempt at all to stop me would result in humilitiation. My nastiest taunts were reserved for slender, greyhound -type guys who just couldn't fathom some chubby dude lighting them up. I wasn't seeking any mental edge, or trying to mess with their minds. I was mean and wanted to humiliate them.
But back then it would have been unthinkable to preen or strut on the field of play. Trashing opponents was a strictly private matter, and that makes me wonder if, even today, the most egregious instances of poor sportsmanship occur quietly, out of earshot and not visible to the cameras. Remember, for instance, when Dr J attacked Larry Bird? At the time, I wrote it off as frustration on the part of a great player being dominated by an even greater one. Word of Bird's nasty streak has been widely circulated since then, however, and it seems clear that considerable provocation was required to drive the dignified Dr J to the point of violence.

[sandpit]

What I don't understand is all the inherent need for players in the NFL to desire the adoration for their individual accomplishments on any one play. Success in football is 100% determined by the play of all 11 teammates. If I owned a team and was paying these guys millions of my $$$, it would be mandatory that they watch about 2 hours of Barry Sanders highlights during training camp. First of all, nobody on my team would be better than him; and more importantly, he did his job with more flair, yet less showboating, than any great player in history.