NY Daily News Editorial on NY racing..

[tzipi]

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/01/04/2010-01-04_racing_to_the_finish.html

Pretty interesting for anyone who wants to read it. Although I dissagree with the casino going in at Belmont. NO WAY,that would ruin Belmont I think. At least for me.

[fmolf]

some good ideas there.

[tzipi]

some good ideas there.

Yeah that's why I thought it was worthwhile posting but please NO NO NO Belmont casino! :D

[Cratos]

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/01/04/2010-01-04_racing_to_the_finish.html

Pretty interesting for anyone who wants to read it. Although I dissagree with the casino going in at Belmont. NO WAY,that would ruin Belmont I think. At least for me.

Fixing the problem is simple; privatize racing and get government control out. The Racing and Wagering Boards whether in New York or elsewhere has never been good for racing?

[tzipi]

Well would anyone be for the casino at Belmont and closing down Aqueduct? Obviously my thoughts about it are here but can anyone think of maybe reasons it would be better to do that? Would it make Belmont a better track or take away from what it is and has always been?

[fmolf]

Well would anyone be for the casino at Belmont and closing down Aqueduct? Obviously my thoughts about it are here but can anyone think of maybe reasons it would be better to do that? Would it make Belmont a better track or take away from what it is and has always been?
I think they could race year round at belmont save maybe Jan. an Feb. and yes have the casino their as well.This would cut costs by eliminating the extra upkeep of a separate facility.I have always said the govt. cannot run racing the whole business needs to be privatized.the casinos as well as the nyra.This will never happen as they have a 30 yr lease now.

[Robert Goren]

Fixing the problem is simple; privatize racing and get government control out. The Racing and Wagering Boards whether in New York or elsewhere has never been good for racing? Like that has work in....
like nowhere

[OTM Al]

I think they could race year round at belmont save maybe Jan. an Feb. and yes have the casino their as well.This would cut costs by eliminating the extra upkeep of a separate facility.I have always said the govt. cannot run racing the whole business needs to be privatized.the casinos as well as the nyra.This will never happen as they have a 30 yr lease now.

Um, there's no heat there, not even in the offices. Its cold when they open in May and frigid come October. The last BC there was brutal. It was built to block the sun, not let it in. While this could happen someday, everything would need to be rebuilt to make it so. The cost would be very very high.

Furthermore, this is a private as it's going to get in NY. Had any of the other bidders won this contact, they would be operating under exactly the same rules.

[tzipi]

Yup,that's the one bad think about Belmont Park. It's cold in early May and brutal in October. Tellers,bartenders,etc all have on big coats and gloves. I dont even go as much. Just too cold inside. They'd have to enclose the whole thing for it to work.

[Cratos]

Like that has work in....
like nowhere

Privatization is what makes America work; not government.

[westny]

Privatization is what makes America work; not government.

Sure. Tell me about AIG, County Mortgage, Bear Stears, World Com, Madoff,
Enron, Citi, BoA, etc....etc..etc

[Robert Goren]

Privatization is what makes America work; not government. Privately owned race tracks without slots is working where? Isn't largest owner of privately owned race tracks in bankruptcy?

[badcompany]

"Overshadowing all is OTB's bankruptcy. Mayor Bloomberg (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Michael+Bloomberg) unloaded the operation on the state, and Paterson drafted businessman Sandy Frucher to rescue it. Frucher is using bankruptcy to slash costs by shedding more than half of OTB's workers and shutting most parlors."

So, to get OTB out of the red, Frucher's idea is to make it impossible to get a bet in.

Sounds like a plan, to me.:bang:

[Robert Goren]

If horse racing going to survive it either going to have get an outside source of revenue or scale down big time. There no way that betting on horses can pay for anything like the purses that they pay now. NY racing will have to cut purses in half if they want to continue without slots or a taxpayer bailout. If think the taxpayers are mad about the banking bailout wait til you tell them that they going bailout race tracks. Do the math and you will see I am right. You can do away with winter racing if you want, but the betting in July doesn't still doesn't come close to warranting the purses paid out in July. I can hear the horse people crying, but that does not change the facts. :bang:

[badcompany]

If horse racing going to survive it either going to have get an outside source of revenue or scale down big time. There no way that betting on horses can pay for anything like the purses that they pay now. NY racing will have to cut purses in half if they want to continue without slots or a taxpayer bailout. If think the taxpayers are mad about the banking bailout wait til you tell them that they going bailout race tracks. Do the math and you will see I am right. You can do away with winter racing if you want, but the betting in July doesn't still doesn't come close to warranting the purses paid out in July. I can hear the horse people crying, but that does not change the facts. :bang:

There's nothing with which to bail out the tracks. NY state is broke, and unlike the federal gov't doesn't have the option of printing money.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Aqueduct and Belmont - within 8 miles of each other. Aqueduct should be closed and the huge property devoted to public purposes (SELL PROPERTY TO PRIVATE INTERESTS).

[Zman179]

Aqueduct and Belmont - within 8 miles of each other. Aqueduct should be closed and the huge property devoted to public purposes (SELL PROPERTY TO PRIVATE INTERESTS).

It would likely be sold to the Port Authority of NY and NJ, owner/operator of JFK Airport. They've been wanting that property for years now.

Realistically, there is no need for two racetracks; but, before they sell off Aqueduct and tear it down, Belmont would have to be winterized by lowering the ceilings (optional, but will save on heating costs over the long run), enclosing the betting areas and installing heaters.

[Cratos]

Sure. Tell me about AIG, County Mortgage, Bear Stears, World Com, Madoff,
Enron, Citi, BoA, etc....etc..etc

One thing I learned when I was in the graduate school of business; you are either in business or out of business. All of the firms you named don’t shake my confidence at all about American businesses because if you are an investor you know from history that the economy is cyclical.

Again, privatization is the way to go; government welfare is not

[Cratos]

Privately owned race tracks without slots is working where? Isn't largest owner of privately owned race tracks in bankruptcy?


I don’t want to get far a field and too technical, but please construct an econometric model for wagering efficiency given the current wagering revenues and show how slots will help boost wagering.

Yes, there might be the residual effect of better purse structure and a minimal increase of new betting patrons, but the over all impact on the horseracing betting industry is negligible.

[badcompany]

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/01/04/2010-01-04_racing_to_the_finish.html

Pretty interesting for anyone who wants to read it. Although I dissagree with the casino going in at Belmont. NO WAY,that would ruin Belmont I think. At least for me.

The guy running the show, Frucher, seems to think the answer is putting betting machines in bars and restaurants. That's fine, but, there's needs to be better access to the signal at home via an OTB network which shows all the tracks on individual channels. The current setup, with 3 or 4 tracks on one channel and a phantom channel surfer in the background jumping from race to race, is not conducive to serious betting.

OTB seems to feel that bettors don't care which track they bet on, or whether they see any information regarding exacta prices, jockey/driver changes etc.

[tzipi]

Yeah OTB has never understood the game and the fans I think. Also,I know people might think yeah close down Aqueduct and do it at Belmont but I just dont think I can goto Belmont one day and see all this glitz around the grandstand and backyard and dinging bells,etc. Would kill what Belmont Park actually is for me.

[Robert Goren]

I don’t want to get far a field and too technical, but please construct an econometric model for wagering efficiency given the current wagering revenues and show how slots will help boost wagering.

They won't and I never said they would. What they do is provide is a short term infusion of cash to operate on. If they use it for purses instead of promoting the sport it will be a waste of time.

[Cratos]

They won't and I never said they would. What they do is provide is a short term infusion of cash to operate on. If they use it for purses instead of promoting the sport it will be a waste of time.

That is why I say privatizing because then the well run and well manage racetracks will survive and the lesser manage tracks will go out of business; that is the way the system works.

A boost of cash to operate for the short-term only prolongs the problem of inefficiency and an over-crowed racetrack market.

But let’s take a look at the economic model you are suggesting to give cash too.

I don’t know the estimate of the casino gambling market, but horseracing is estimated to be an annual $15B gambling market.

However in the market you are advocating, there will be horseplayer gamblers only, casino player gamblers only, and horseplayer-casino gamblers. Therefore the question is “How is the market segmented by gambler? The answer will be use in part to establish the demand elasticity.

Another part come from there will be casinos with slots, casinos with racing, OTB, racetracks with slots, and racetracks without slots. Now we need to understand the customer market segmentation.

What I am driving at is that the authorizing governments couldn’t care less about either the casino or the racetrack, what they see is another revenue generator for their coffers.

[Robert Goren]

I don't disagree and I actually oppose Racinos. The point I have trying to make is there does not currently exist a well run race track, Racino or semi-government run or Privately Owned. You seem to think that just by privatizing them or taking away the slots that they will become well run. I think they will all close. The only thing left will be some small fair meets and maybe not even them. Horse racing may well have become buggy whip factories.

[Moyers Pond]

Sure. Tell me about AIG, County Mortgage, Bear Stears, World Com, Madoff,
Enron, Citi, BoA, etc....etc..etc


I don't see how you can really equate gambling on racehorses with non-profits like the Red Cross or Feed The Children. It is much more similar to a business like a bank, and if horse racing can't survive then it goes out of business. It is sort of insulting to taxpayers to have a non-profit so rich people can race their horses and people can gamble on them.

Cratos is 100% correct. Make it a private entity and if he can't succeed that is too bad.

[Cratos]

I don't disagree and I actually oppose Racinos. The point I have trying to make is there does not currently exist a well run race track, Racino or semi-government run or Privately Owned. You seem to think that just by privatizing them or taking away the slots that they will become well run. I think they will all close. The only thing left will be some small fair meets and maybe not even them. Horse racing may well have become buggy whip factories.

In all due apologies what I believe you are not getting is that there is an over supply of racetracks. The reason for this is because the revenue that the authorizing jurisdictions are getting has blinded them from seeing a more efficient system that will generate more revenue.

Privatizing will not automatically make the racetracks well run, but taking risk with the ability to meet the demands of the customer will.

For example while GM and Chrysler felt asleep at the wheel (no pun intended), Ford quietly got its act together and produced 3 of the top 10 selling vehicles of 2009 including the number one seller and never took any government welfare.

I will leave you with a saying from the late Malcolm Forbes: “I make no apologies for being a capitalist.”

[bks]

All of the firms you named don’t shake my confidence at all about American businesses because if you are an investor you know from history that the economy is cyclical.

The "economy" may look cyclical to investors, who are concerned only with investment climates, but the economy itself is not cyclical, it's dialectical. We never come back to the same place or point in time. Recoveries, when they happen, happen in different circumstances from those that produced the downturn.