Workout Wars. Who's the best?

[only11]

Posted as they were going in the gate.

Baffert quoted as saying he'll need a race. Came out with blinkers and a shadow roll.

Take Control 12/23/09 SA 111.8
6f gate team drill for Baffert 111.4 Bullet Work for the day best of 21 workers. Highly thought in
the barn. Worked in company with stable mate Ellafitz who went 112.3. Broke sharp looks
great. Should Fire…. Azeri's first foal bought for $1.9 million. Chestnut has definitely caught
the fancy of Baffert's eye and he looks like a serious race horse, but he also has big shoes to
fill. Big pattern with 23 furlongs in 30 days, but going a distance of ground first out. Even
great horses get beat first out.....


or

TAKE CONTROL Dec 23 SA 6 1:11.4HG M FT C+
Garcia up; zero early speed behind Ellafitz (112.3g, Baffert) and Missy Miss Joanna (100.3, Blincoe) in 24.1 (3 back), 47.2 (1 back) moving clear late while asked along in 112.1. Very one paced; may do down the line.---Grade: C+

TAKE CONTROL Dec 16 SA 6 1:13.2HG M FT C+
Second best to Clutch Player (112.3g) giving up ground late while asked for run in 24.2, 47.3, 112.3. Maybe with more work; Garcia up.---Grade: C+


Some of other notable works are:

Line of David 12/17/09 HOL 112.6
Sadler wanted to get an idea on whether this youngster could run, as they were very high on
him for debut, and worked him with Red Arrow, the stakes sprinter. Line of David was going
much easier than workmate finishing in 36.4 for the last three furlongs. Splits of 35.4, 59.3 and
112.3. Beat workmate by a couple of lengths. I guess he got his answer.

LINE OF DAVID Dec 23 HOL 6 1:12.4H M FT B
Nice late extension while working solo to the mile pole in 37.0, 100.4, 112.4. Have to like this move.---Grade: B

LINE OF DAVID Dec 17 HOL 6 1:12.3H M FT B
Tried hard while moving up on win type Red Arrow (Sadler) working well late while roused near the end in 48.3, 100.3, 113.0. Very nice; looks better than debut.---Grade: B
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow! Bruno's workouts got it right!

And how about Martin Garcia. He must be close to 40% for Baffert after two today.
Andy where to you looks up these works?

[andymays]

Andy where to you looks up these works?


www.racingwithbruno.com for works by Bruno DeJulio

or

www.todaysracingdigest.com

the others are National Turf. I usually only get Bruno.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Wow! Bruno's workouts got it right!


Bruno in a coma -750 vs. Harrington and his crew +650

[andymays]

Bruno in a coma -750 vs. Harrington and his crew +650


In my experience Bruno is the best. The others aren't bad it's just that I've been using Bruno for a long time. He also had a good one on Tiny Woods in the second.

Tiny Woods 12/24/09 SA 59.8
Worked well here with El Martillo. Went in 48 flat and finished in 112.2. Galloped out in 125.3. Good
move here with here in 'Martillo. He was highly thought of by connections and showed he fast he was
at Saratoga before falling apart in the lane. He was high headed in that race telling us that he may
have had some shins bugging him.

This one in the first wasn't bad either:

Good Turn 12/12/09 HOL 101.2
Worked in the rain and actually worked well enough under mild pressure. Showed some speed on a
horribly soaked surface.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

In my experience Bruno is the best. The others aren't bad it's just that I've been using Bruno for a long time. He also had a good one on Tiny Woods in the second.

Tiny Woods 12/24/09 SA 59.8
Worked well here with El Martillo. Went in 48 flat and finished in 112.2. Galloped out in 125.3. Good
move here with here in 'Martillo. He was highly thought of by connections and showed he fast he was
at Saratoga before falling apart in the lane. He was high headed in that race telling us that he may
have had some shins bugging him.

This one in the first wasn't bad either:

Good Turn 12/12/09 HOL 101.2
Worked in the rain and actually worked well enough under mild pressure. Showed some speed on a
horribly soaked surface.


Tiny Woods = No report....AH must have missed it

Good Turn = C+'s.....Not ready yet


If it was a fight they'd stop it

[andymays]

Tiny Woods = No report....AH must have missed it

Good Turn = C+'s.....Not ready yet


If it was a fight they'd stop it


The other guys had a good one in the 4th. Bruno didn't have a workout on it.


National Turf (So. California) December 30

WORKOUT ANALYSIS BY ANDY HARRINGTON

ELMER N MORT Dec 25 SA 5 1:02.1H M FT B
Willing late rush in the Christmas morning spin, reaching while let run some in 38.0, 102.1. Nice; improving type.--Grade: B

ELMER N MORT Dec 6 SA 4 :50.2H M FT B-
Perked up a tad herein this in the dark drill going 26.0, 50.1 while not asked for run.---Grade: B-

[andymays]

National Turf had this one! Bruno didn't have a work on him. He did give good works to Camisado and Rummyssecret War.

FIERY TRIPPI Dec 22 SA 6 1:13.2H M FT B+
Best drill in a long while got this one, moving up outside a worker for Headley, last 5 in 36.0, 100.0. Worked in the dark.. May have turned things around.----Grade: B+

If a Moderator want to move the comments that have nothing to do with the thread starter it would probably be better.

We can put it in Handicapping under Workout Wars! Who's the best?

[exiles]

[QUOTE=andymays]The other guys had a good one in the 4th. Bruno didn't have a workout on it.


National Turf (So. California) December 30

WORKOUT ANALYSIS BY ANDY HARRINGTON

ELMER N MORT Dec 25 SA 5 1:02.1H M FT B
Willing late rush in the Christmas morning spin, reaching while let run some in 38.0, 102.1. Nice; improving type.--Grade: B

ELMER N MORT Dec 6 SA 4 :50.2H M FT B-
Perked up a tad herein this in the dark drill going 26.0, 50.1 while not asked for run.---Grade: B-[/QUOTE

Workout reports are a waist of money, i don't care which u use,most of the time they put you on a loser and take u off a winner or a horse that runs well,the ones they give good grades to go off way underlaid .and under perform their odds by a lot.

[andymays]

[QUOTE=andymays]The other guys had a good one in the 4th. Bruno didn't have a workout on it.


National Turf (So. California) December 30

WORKOUT ANALYSIS BY ANDY HARRINGTON

ELMER N MORT Dec 25 SA 5 1:02.1H M FT B
Willing late rush in the Christmas morning spin, reaching while let run some in 38.0, 102.1. Nice; improving type.--Grade: B

ELMER N MORT Dec 6 SA 4 :50.2H M FT B-
Perked up a tad herein this in the dark drill going 26.0, 50.1 while not asked for run.---Grade: B-[/QUOTE

Workout reports are a waist of money, i don't care which u use,most of the time they put you on a loser and take u off a winner or a horse that runs well,the ones they give good grades to go off way underlaid .and under perform their odds by a lot.


You handicap first and use the workouts to refine your contenders. You do not use them above the PP's.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would also like to apologize to CBEDO for taking the thread off track. I PM'd PA to move the posts that don't relate to the thread to handicapping.

[andymays]

DEAL BREAKER Dec 14 HOL 6 1:13.1H M FT B
Slow early in 13.2, 38.0 but finishing with a big late rush in 102.2, 114.2 galloping well in 127.2. Mitchell (?) trainee looks to be still on edge.---Grade: B

Bruno didn't have any works on Deal Breaker.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Malibu Canyon 12/27/09 SA 38.2
Another slow move in short drill here on this morning. Went OK, and did it easy.

Malibu Canyon 12/20/09 SA 49.2
Was once a well thought of youngster, now he is a gelding and being dropped precipitously. Has
been trained with kid gloves here.

Malibu Canyon 11/20/09 SA 46.2
4f work for Gaines Bullet for the distance 46.1. Fast all the way. Flashed speed in 23.1 then finished
in 23 flat. Looks great, and obviously something went wrong as he is being dropped.




MALIBU CANYON Dec 20 SA 4 :49.1B M FT B
Legit breeze in 24.3, 49.1 working under late wraps for Gaines. Still moving fluidly; seeking level with winners.---Grade: B
MALIBU CANYON Nov 20 SA 4 :46.1H M FT B
Feeling good for Gaines breezy side in 22.3, 46.0, Still willing in the mornings.---Grade: B

[andymays]

One of the most common mistakes handicappers make and clockers make is that they tend to assume that fast works are better and slow works are bad. In fact it always comes down to how they did the work not necessarily how fast they worked.

In the last race yesterday the #4 took a ton of action early and that was because of a 58 and change work since raced. Once again two clockers and two different points of view:

Bruno

Amazing Feat 12/24/09 SA 58.2

bay gelding for Truman did exactly what we hate to see with these cheap horses and that is work fast. Track was quite quick this morning, but I can tell you Truman may not have been too happy with
such fast work.

Harrrington (National Turf) (I got it through the handicapping section at Twin Spires by the way)

AMAZING FEAT Dec 24 SA 5 :58.1H M FT B+
Terrific drill moving up on a mate in 34.4, 59.1 galloping out far clear in 112.2 going like a good thing. Stepping it up.---Grade: B+
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Both Clockers had some good stuff today but this is a perfect example of what can happen when two clockers see the same work and have different opinions. Amazing Feat was in contention early and finished 8th.

[46zilzal]

Yes I always evaluate basketball teams, baseball teams, and HORSES, based upon their practice sessions and NOT their games!

[cj]

Yes I always evaluate basketball teams, baseball teams, and HORSES, based upon their practice sessions and NOT their games!

In the case of firsters, there have been no games.

[andymays]

You're also looking for workouts after changes like gelding.

this one was scratched yesterday but was gelded since his last race. National Turf had a good work on him after he was gelded.

DREAM NETTIE Dec 22 SA 5 1:00.3H M FT B+
Huge late finish on this one going with a nice late rush in 37.0, 100.2 (23.2 last 1/4 mile) out in 112.4. Big improvement.---Grade: B+

[InsideThePylons-MW]

After the last few days, it's obvious who the worst is.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

SA 5th race

GET OFF THE SUGAR Jan 24 HOL 6 1:15.1H M FT C
All out in 49.2, 115.3 weary to the line while shoved home. Hard to like.---Grade: C

NO GRANDE Jan 25 HOL 5 1:03H M FT C-
All out in 37.3, 103.1. No better off the break.---Grade: C-

ABALANCHE Jan 15 SA 5 1:01.4H M FT C
Let run some late with Q up, last 1/4 mile in 25.0. Eh.---Grade: C


3 horses off minor layoffs......a time when workout reports should be useful.

Harrington had the anti-trifecta come in 1-2-3

[46zilzal]

Real reliable on a course NOT known to drain well and it is currently raining there.

NO cause and effect by any means

[Tom]

If you are not capable enough to use them, you probably should stay away from them. Not everyone is sharp enough to use all the tools available. Not to worry, just find tracks the fir your narrow abilities and you will do ok. The Doc had compassion for those who could only juggle one or two balls at a time.

[Stillriledup]

Tony Montana (2nd race today at SA) was eased late in the stretch today appearing worse for wear....i wonder what his comments looked like.

[skate]

Yes I always evaluate basketball teams, baseball teams, and HORSES, based upon their practice sessions and NOT their games!

and you evaluate the players Bloodstock...:eek:

[Stillriledup]

Yes I always evaluate basketball teams, baseball teams, and HORSES, based upon their practice sessions and NOT their games!

But if the basketball team is 'practicing' at 80% effort, you would probably have a better guess at who the better players are than if you didn't see this practice at all.

[Stillriledup]

Interesting article on Clockers on the front page of DRF.com

[46zilzal]

Interesting article on Clockers on the front page of DRF.com
I suggest everyone who can, should get up at 4:15 AM go out and experience an entire session so that there is better appreciation of what is going on.

In Hong Kong, each horse has to wear a numbered saddle cloth AFTER there is proper ID of the horse so that the clockers know exactly which horse is which. At most courses, a simple statement at the gap identifies who is working and how far with little on the animal to differentiate it from far away on the roof where the clockers are located so mistakes are made. I was amazed that there are not more errors.

[ronsmac]

harrington's works were much more useful on the old dirt tracks. For every B or B+ that shows life, just as many fail miserably. There was a 6 month period where he was totally off on almost every Baffert work horse. The ones with c+ or c works were winning and the B+ A- works were running up the track. That rarely happened to Andy when Socal had the old dirt tracks.

[Stillriledup]

I suggest everyone who can, should get up at 4:15 AM go out and experience an entire session so that there is better appreciation of what is going on.

In Hong Kong, each horse has to wear a numbered saddle cloth AFTER there is proper ID of the horse so that the clockers know exactly which horse is which. At most courses, a simple statement at the gap identifies who is working and how far with little on the animal to differentiate it from far away on the roof where the clockers are located so mistakes are made. I was amazed that there are not more errors.

This would be nice if America can adopt this numbered saddle cloth thing and proper ID.

[jeebus1083]

Sorry to bump, but I notice that Southern California offers a multitude of workout reports, yet I have never found such a service for any of the East Coast tracks, esp. New York. Am I missing something?