Thwarted Airliner Terrorist Attack

[ponyplayer]

What is wrong with this whole friggin' picture? They will find a way to get to us.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34592031/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/?GT1=43001

:cool:

[PaceAdvantage]

Good thing Bush isn't still president...'cause as we all know, when Bush was president, anything that went wrong in the USA was blamed on him...

So then...who do we blame this lapse in security on?

Oh, I KNOW!!!! :lol:

[Tom]

Bush = water boarding and = wire tapping and = terror attacks thwarted early on

Obama = no WB and terror attacks get carried out. Was it a failure or a test case? My bet, test case. My bet - major problem coming up. This is one of many to follow. We shall see. Word is out, our prez has no balls.

Stay off planes and out of tall buildings. And out from under air approach zones. Obama's chickens are coming home to roost.

[ponyplayer]

Sadly Tom, I have to agree with you........... :(

[cj's dad]

Sadly Tom, I have to agree with you........... :(

Why is that a sad thing - ???

Is it that the truth hurts ???

[Rookies]

Unlike the Chickens Many with small stones here, my daughter was on a plane TODAY! I'll be leaving for Miami in January.

So cheer on for a disaster you pathetic cretins ! The rest of us aren't in hiding.

[bisket]

both of my sons flew to disney world today. we left for the airport 3 hours early. everything went like clockwork though. honestly i didn't give putting them on a plain a second thought. if its your time its your time. i'm not gonna live my life in fear of a bunch of cowards.

[Robert Goren]

If a Moslem runs a stop sign according some it is Obama's fault.

[bigmack]

Unlike the Chickens Many with small stones here, my daughter was on a plane TODAY! I'll be leaving for Miami in January.
So cheer on for a disaster you pathetic cretins ! The rest of us aren't in hiding.
Big stones on this Canadian! Our thoughts will be with you on your scary flight from The Great White North to Florida. :lol: :lol:

If a Moslem runs a stop sign according some it is Obama's fault.

When do any of you get the irony brought out RE: the blame placed on Bush for everything? Any post of your outrage from that period?

Don't bother answering. Your biased outrage is clear.

[NJ Stinks]

Not sure why we are discussing blame since the plane did land safely.

Anyway, we are flying to Florida tomorrow. It's our 30th anniversary next week. So we're taking a cruise.

Thankfully, we didn't have to fly last Sunday. :eek:

Anyway, I'll be checking in here occasionally just to make sure Obama is not getting away with anything. :p :)

[Robert Goren]

When do any of you get the irony brought out RE: the blame placed on Bush for everything? Any post of your outrage from that period?

Don't bother answering. Your biased outrage is clear. You right about Bush, I do not remember defending him on anything. I however recently came the defense of couple of Conservatives. Sen Jon Kyl who someone here accused of taking money from Casinos and Mike Huckabee who was accused of not being a "true" Christian.

[bigmack]

Not sure why we are discussing blame since the plane did land safely.
:lol: :lol:

Tell that to Aunt Martha who now needs to be patted down because security along the way couldn't 'profile' a guy named Umar Farouk Abdulmutalla who had explosive elements in his undies.

Blanket treatment for all? Poppycock. Strip search all Muslims on planes to this country.

Rights violation? Fly somewhere else.

[Robert Goren]

:lol: :lol:

Tell that to Aunt Martha who now needs to be patted down because security along the way couldn't 'profile' a guy named Umar Farouk Abdulmutalla who had explosive elements in his undies.

Blanket treatment for all? Poppycock. Strip search all Muslims on planes to this country.

Rights violation? Fly somewhere else. How are they going to know who is Moslem?

[bigmack]

How are they going to know who is Moslem?
All that open air in NE and you're still this obtuse/dense?

Start with anyone when their pops called to say 'watch out for this guy'. Move on to a list of names with this guys name on it. Then move to his religious affiliation.

Have no shame filtering names like, Farouk, Abdul, Khalid, Akbar,...

How would you configure security, Mr. fictional character from Law & Order?

[Robert Goren]

I doubt if all terrorist are dumb enough to use their real name.

[bigmack]

I doubt if all terrorist are dumb enough to use their real name.
Had I realized the level of your intellect, I would have thwarted all tete-a-tete.

Isn't a bad video game calling your involvement somewhere?

[WeirdWilly]

We have enough challenges with not only our real problems, but the perception that people around the nation and around the world, towards Detroit.

Now this pedophile-prophet-worshipping piece of crap does this to MY nation, MY city - if he didn't lose his junk in the "pop", then cut it off and smear it in his face before shoving a pork chop in his mouth and a 9mm slug in his brain.

Yes, I am POed!

[bigmack]

I can see how they missed this guy.

- He paid cash for a one-way ticket
- He had no luggage
- He was pacing nervously before boarding
- He was denied his visa in the UK
- His dad contacted authorities putting him on a terrorist watch list
- He had known ties to extremist groups

Why is El Al the safest airline in the world? They profile up the yin yang. If your name is Mohammad or Khalid or Akbar, and you're trying to get on one of their planes, you're going to the back room for a little chat & then some.

Meanwhile, we're taking off shoes and can't travel with a gift wrapped package. :bang:

[andymays]

Northwest Flight Saved by Failed Detonator - ABC News

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/northwest-flight-saved-failed-detonator/story?id=9426532

[Greyfox]

I can see how they missed this guy.

- He paid cash for a one-way ticket
- He had no luggage
- He was pacing nervously before boarding
- He was denied his visa in the UK
- His dad contacted authorities putting him on a terrorist watch list
- He had known ties to extremist groups

:bang:

Spot on Big Mack. :ThmbUp:
The guys father warned U.S. authorities in November, yet he was still allowed to board a flight for the United States. If that plane would have crashed, there would have been a hell of a lot of casualties. Heads should roll on this one.

[Robert Goren]

He wasn't put on the terrorism watch list because his father's word wasn't good enough for the idoits in charge.:bang:

[boxcar]

To show you how bright the U.S. government is ( :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ), the new rules that are now in effect since this latest terrorist attack (albeit failed, thank God!) requires that during the last hour of the flight everyone must remain in their seats strapped in. Passengers cannot remove themselves from their seats during the last hour flight. Passengers cannot have anything, whatsoever, in the seat with them or on their laps during this last hour of flight either.

So, perhaps some government apologist can tell me why some terrorist, 65 minutes prior to the flight ending, exit a bathroom with explosives or explosive materials on his person , return to his seat and blow up the plane? Or if he needs to quickly assemble something, who is going to stop him after he sticks a carbon shiv into the passenger next to him, and no other passenger, sensing that something is wrong, can leave his seat? I guess the passengers are supposed to flag a flight attendant down by yelling, "Terrorist on board, terrorist on board, someone please call 911"? :rolleyes:

It has been proven time and again how valuable brave, selfless, MOBILE passengers have been and how many incidents have been thwarted by such people. So, why in the world would some overpaid, underworked, bungling, befuddled, clueless, politically-correct bureaucrat make up rules like this? Why would he or she, in essence, handcuff the good guys who are the last line of defense between the bad guys (who don't play by the rules) and a safe landing? This is precisely the same kind of mindless rationale that misguided anti-gun freaks use who want the government to take away all guns from private citizens. When all the guns are removed, then it leaves only the bad guys and the cops with the guns, and there aren't enough cops to go around to protect everyone 24/7, are there?

Any of you libs want to take a shot at defending these new regulations by your all-wise government?

Boxcar

[Tom]

I can see how they missed this guy.

- He paid cash for a one-way ticket
- He had no luggage
- He was pacing nervously before boarding
- He was denied his visa in the UK
- His dad contacted authorities putting him on a terrorist watch list
- He had known ties to extremist groups



And today, Janet Napolitano said the system worked!
Is this lady the dumbest idiot on the planet or what????

THIS piece of crap is in charge of Homeland security?
The Obama administration couldn't have made a worse pick. KSM would be a better one than this vegetable-head.

Lord help us all to survive our first terror-sponsoring administration.

[boxcar]

And today, Janet Napolitano said the system worked!
Is this lady the dumbest idiot on the planet or what????

THIS piece of crap is in charge of Homeland security?
The Obama administration couldn't have made a worse pick. KSM would be a better one than this vegetable-head.

Lord help us all to survive our first terror-sponsoring administration.

Yeah...the "system" was the intervention of passengers. :rolleyes: Now, the government wants to shut down that last line of defense, too! :bang: :bang:

Boxcar

[johnhannibalsmith]

And today, Janet Napolitano said the system worked!
Is this lady the dumbest idiot on the planet or what????

Yes.

THIS piece of crap is in charge of Homeland security?
The Obama administration couldn't have made a worse pick.

On the positive side - she's out of Arizona after leaving her mark and now you all can enjoy her brilliance.

[ponyplayer]

Here is some eyewitness stuff not being reported in the "media."

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_says_at_l.html

Sounds to me like there might have been a bribe paid to get this piece of sh!t on the plane without a passport...... :mad:

[ArlJim78]

lol, the system worked says Janet? wow!
so a guy with known terrorist contacts doesn't make the no-fly list and his father rats on the kid and that isn't enough for anyone to connect the dots, so he gets on a plane with explosives which he does manage to set on fire, and this is a system that works?
but for a faulty detonator and some brave passengers over 270 people would have lost their lives, and this lady says the system worked?

we're in the very best of hands.:rolleyes:

[ArlJim78]

looks like the system is still working today!


WASHINGTON (http://get.lingospot.com/link/?@li2=5716&is_lhid=1&key=SVKEJENJ&ps_id=7UGHYTxS8k&q=QQ:lqOTqjptCQHGBH[GB_@ORJJOAGSOBDAVOqptJ:pnCBOqmj_J:pnCBO4aJm8CHSHRA :GSSZKVV&section_key=&site_id=breitbart.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftopics.breitbart.com%2FWASHINGTON %2F&url_key=_TaCSO0CGDU{_SGADK&v=1&~boot=1261943837704) (AP) - The Associated Press (http://topics.breitbart.com/The+Associated+Press/) has learned that a second Nigerian man has been taken into custody aboard a jetliner in Detroit (http://topics.breitbart.com/detroit/) after locking himself in the airliner's bathroom.


A law enforcement official tells the AP that the incident took place aboard the same Northwest flight (http://topics.breitbart.com/Northwest+flight/) that was attacked on Christmas Day. (http://topics.breitbart.com/Christmas+Day/) The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the incident was ongoing. A Delta (http://topics.breitbart.com/Delta/) spokeswoman says all 256 passengers have been safely taken off the plane. Delta (http://topics.breitbart.com/Delta/) operates the Northwest flight.

[boxcar]

lol, the system worked says Janet? wow!
so a guy with known terrorist contacts doesn't make the no-fly list and his father rats on the kid and that isn't enough for anyone to connect the dots, so he gets on a plane with explosives which he does manage to set on fire, and this is a system that works?
but for a faulty detonator and some brave passengers over 270 people would have lost their lives, and this lady says the system worked?

we're in the very best of hands.:rolleyes:

Yup, and this is the same government taking over the entire health care industry! God help us all!

Boxcar

[Tom]

Doctor: I'm sorry. We were not able to save him. He is dead.
Patient's wife: That's alright. The system worked.

Economist: The economy is failing, and unemployment is over 10%.
Democrat: That's alright. The system worked.

[OntheRail]

How are they going to know who is Moslem?
Have them swear on a piece of Ham that they not... anyone not willing to do so is strip searched. Seems quite simple to me.... :lol:

[bigmack]

To show you how bright the U.S. government is ( :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ), the new rules that are now in effect since this latest terrorist attack (albeit failed, thank God!) requires that during the last hour of the flight everyone must remain in their seats strapped in. Passengers cannot remove themselves from their seats during the last hour flight. Passengers cannot have anything, whatsoever, in the seat with them or on their laps during this last hour of flight either.
That's the way these Neanderthals think.

Reed had something in his shoe - NEW RULE: Have everyone take their shoes off.

This clown had something in his lap under a blanket and hour before landing. NEW RULE: No one is allowed to get up one hour before landing. Restrooms are locked & no pillows & blankets.

And yet, as Tom mentioned, Napolitano comes out and says the system is working.

Can't wait for them to help us idiots out in healthcare.

[ponyplayer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/usattacksnigeriayemenqaeda


Christmas bomber 'trained' by Al-Qaeda in Yemen
Sun Dec 27, 6:33 am ET
DETROIT, Michigan (AFP) – A Nigerian man who tried to blow up a Detroit-bound plane on Christmas Day has confessed to training with an Al-Qaeda bombmaker in Yemen, security officials told the US media on Saturday.

The allegations highlight Yemen's growing centrality in global terror plots as the country's government carries out an offensive against Al-Qaeda suspects, that has reportedly killed 68 alleged militants in the past 10 days.

New details emerging about Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab suggested his abortive attack on Northwest Airlines Flight 253 was planned in Yemen by Al-Qaeda members who even sewed an explosive device into the 23-year-old's underwear.

~~read the rest at the link above~~

:cool:

[trying2win]

I can see how they missed this guy.

- He paid cash for a one-way ticket
- He had no luggage
- He was pacing nervously before boarding
- He was denied his visa in the UK
- His dad contacted authorities putting him on a terrorist watch list
- He had known ties to extremist groups

Why is El Al the safest airline in the world? They profile up the yin yang. If your name is Mohammad or Khalid or Akbar, and you're trying to get on one of their planes, you're going to the back room for a little chat & then some.

Meanwhile, we're taking off shoes and can't travel with a gift wrapped package. :bang:

Right on, Big Mack! :ThmbUp: Great post! Let the racial profiling of these people begin again at airports, train stations, rapid transit stations, border crossings, wherever it is deemed very important in the USA, Canada and other places.

I can picture the howls in the next while from many muslims, or other nationalities that support them at the human rights offices in the USA and CANADA, about perceived racial discrimination. Too bad, I say! National security and safety is more important than any perceived racial discrimination to muslim protesters at the human rights offices, or at any American or Canadian government offices.

T2W

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."

--Winston Churchill

[Tom]

The idiot president wants to release 50-60 Gitmo prisoners to Yemen authorities.

Duh.

Could this jerk do any more to enable terrorism?

[trying2win]

The idiot president wants to release 50-60 Gitmo prisoners to Yemen authorities.

Duh.

Could this jerk do any more to enable terrorism?

Good point, Tom! :ThmbUp: How come Barack Obama doesn't display common sense on this subject?

T2W

[bigmack]

We're now officially in the Twilight Zone. Get a load of this:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/200.jpg

[boxcar]

Good point, Tom! :ThmbUp: How come Barack Obama doesn't display common sense on this subject?

T2W

Because he's really a Muslim and sympathizes with terrorists, perhaps?

Boxcar

[boxcar]

We're now officially in the Twilight Zone. Get a load of this:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/200.jpg

The down 'n' dirty translation: Because he feels safer and more comfortable burying his head in the sand.

Boxcar

[ArlJim78]

We're now officially in the Twilight Zone. Get a load of this:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/200.jpg
oh my god what a crock. Obama's adminstration has projected panic and anger on a whole host of issues. they've put into practice the idea that you should not let a good crisis go to waste, and anyone who disagrees is attacked.

calming the country is not on their agenda, they just have an indifference to jihadists.

[cj's dad]

The down 'n' dirty translation: Because he feels safer and more comfortable burying his head in the sand.

Boxcar

No, because he really is a Muslim at heart.

[Tape Reader]

[QUOTE=Tom]And today, Janet Napolitano said the system worked!
Is this lady the dumbest idiot on the planet or what????

Please! Any American newspaper, run this as your headline tomorrow.

[wes]

Almost

OBAMA OSAMA OSHIT


moment


wes

[bigmack]

Is this some sort of joke?



http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/12_27_09_20_17_33.png

Napolitano & Gibbs' first response is to yap about how 'smooth' the program has worked. Are they out of touch with reality?

Heads should start to roll.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/12/28/us/28terror_CA1/articleInline.jpg
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/28/us/28terror.html

[Robert Goren]

[QUOTE=Tom]And today, Janet Napolitano said the system worked!
Is this lady the dumbest idiot on the planet or what????

Please! Any American newspaper, run this as your headline tomorrow. No, the dumbest idiot on the planet is Umar Farouk Abdulmutallah. But she is the running for second. She is after all from Arizona. On more thing, I wonder if he got the money for the bomb from an online poker account. I sure Sen. Jon Kyl (R- AZ) will want to hold hearings on that.

[Robert Goren]

Someone should tell the terrorists that they heard wrong. It not virgins that will meet in the hereafter but Virginians and they are not happy.

[trying2win]

And today, Janet Napolitano said the system worked!
Is this lady the dumbest idiot on the planet or what????


--Janet looks mannish, but does she speak Spanish?
--Don't know, maybe plays piano and speaks Italiano,
--But after quote "the system worked", some might say,'book her Dano!'
--Dano said whoa, hand over Janet's words to Joe,
--Friday's the name, let him examine this shame,
--Joe looked at her quote, and wanted to leave her this note...
--"I sing Dragnet theme song with lyrics and a hum...
--What you said was 'dumb...dee...dumb...dumb...
--dumb...dee...dumb...dumb...dumb."

T2W

[PaceAdvantage]

Unlike the Chickens Many with small stones here, my daughter was on a plane TODAY! I'll be leaving for Miami in January.

So cheer on for a disaster you pathetic cretins ! The rest of us aren't in hiding.

WHAT

THE

'F'

ARE

'U'

TALKING

ABOUT?

[PaceAdvantage]

On more thing, I wonder if he got the money for the bomb from an online poker account. I sure Sen. Jon Kyl (R- AZ) will want to hold hearings on that.Det. Robert Goren: Always on top of the most important shit! :lol:

[Tom]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091228/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_airliner_attack

Napolitano now says system failed.

Hmmmm, the system worked before it failed! mmm mmmm mmmm

[boxcar]

Before posting the link to a Freeper post, let's rewind back to yesterday to my post #22. In that post, I laid out what the new rules are for passengers during the last hour of flight. And I raised the question, essentially: Why would anyone in their right mind concoct such idiotic rules? Why would anyone "handcuff" the passengers and make them more helpless? Why would anyone remove the last line of defense between a terrorist and the hard ground below?

After reading this Freeper post (linked below), I can now understand more clearly just how sick and perverted statism really is. When you read this post, you can immediately see the parallel between the mindset of the writer to the Boston Globe and how he justifies his stance and that of the authority who drafted the new in-flight rules.

The rationale of the Globe opinion piece writer is that it's unfair to reward the resourceful because somehow this comes at the expense of the not-so-resourceful -- not-so-smart, etc. In his mind, the playing field must be kept level at all costs. The outcomes must be kept equal -- even if it means he'd have to sacrifice his own child's life in the process! (See the last line in the post!)

This very seriously sick mental attitude of the Globe contributor must be the same one that inspired the author(s) of the new in-flight rules. They obviously desire to level the playing field. It's not fair that the terrorist has to face mobile passengers when he's restricted to his seat because he's so preoccupied trying to blow the plane up.

It's not fair that there are more of the good guys than bad.

It's not fair there are brave, courageous people on board trying to thwart a coward's attempt at a minute of fame.

Does everyone see the parallels? These new, idiotic rules effectively level the playing field, don't they? They make it a little easier for the terrorist to succeed in his evil mission because the rules make it more difficult for the good guys to succeed in defending themselves. The new rules help level the playing field between Good and Evil. Good wins out too often, so something has to be done about that!

Liberalism is truly a disease of the mind and soul. It's an unnatural, evil perversion of all this is good. Here's the link:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2416353/posts

Boxcar

[Tom]

Turns out this guy was on a list, and the FBI saw his name, but they thought the list was the guest list for Obama's next State Dinner.

[chickenhead]

Bomb on a plane = fail. The watch list stuff is secondary importance, way down the list. Keep bombs off da plane, whatever da name.

I understand why they don't want to do what needs to be done to be certain that bombs are kept off of planes. It's expensive, and people bitch and complain, but we really can't have bombs on planes. Pat downs, crotch grabs, full body imaging, bomb sniffin dogs, whatever. keep da bombs. off. da. planes.

[Robert Goren]

Bomb on a plane = fail. The watch list stuff is secondary importance, way down the list. Keep bombs off da plane, whatever da name.

I understand why they don't want to do what needs to be done to be certain that bombs are kept off of planes. It's expensive, and people bitch and complain, but we really can't have bombs on planes. Pat downs, crotch grabs, full body imaging, bomb sniffin dogs, whatever. keep da bombs. off. da. planes.:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[boxcar]

Bomb on a plane = fail. The watch list stuff is secondary importance, way down the list. Keep bombs off da plane, whatever da name.

You say, "secondary"? But keeping suspected terrorists off planes would also keep the bombs off, too. Both need to be done vigorously.

Boxcar

[bigmack]

Bomb on a plane = fail. The watch list stuff is secondary importance, way down the list. Keep bombs off da plane, whatever da name.

I understand why they don't want to do what needs to be done to be certain that bombs are kept off of planes. It's expensive, and people bitch and complain, but we really can't have bombs on planes. Pat downs, crotch grabs, full body imaging, bomb sniffin dogs, whatever. keep da bombs. off. da. planes.
& then crack out a tidy study on probabilities pointing to a certain make-up of those most likely to be strappin' said bombs. After study, inform all agents to be less worried about Aunt Bea and more concerned about people that believe a boatload of virgins are about to be raining down on them.

[chickenhead]

You say, "secondary"? But keeping suspected terrorists off planes would also keep the bombs off, too. Both need to be done vigorously.

Boxcar

We knew about this gent because his dad called us. If our primary means of protection is relying on a parent ratting out their kid, we are done before we begin. We can't assume pa is gonna call us, ergo -- we must assume we know nothing. Things like watch lists, while important, can be an extremely dangerous placebos and pacifiers, even if they were implemented properly, which they are obviously not.

[chickenhead]

& then crack out a tidy study on probabilities pointing to a certain make-up of those most likely to be strappin' said bombs. After study, inform all agents to be less worried about Aunt Bea and more concerned about people that believe a boatload of virgins are about to be raining down on them.

Frisk em all, let God sort em out. You move the funnel to one place, and you'll end up with some Chechyn granny that looks like Aunt Bea w/ fake passport toting something. If we rely on the morons at TSA making any judgement calls whatsoever about who looks safe, I don't care for our chances much.

[Robert Goren]

& then crack out a tidy study on probabilities pointing to a certain make-up of those most likely to be strappin' said bombs. After study, inform all agents to be less worried about Aunt Bea and more concerned about people that believe a boatload of virgins are about to be raining down on them.If the only people you don't check are people dressed like Aunt Bea, then the people who believe a boatload of virgins are about to begin raining down them will start dressing like Aunt Bea.

[bigmack]

Frisk em all, let God sort em out. You move the funnel to one place, and you'll end up with some Chechyn granny that looks like Aunt Bea w/ fake passport toting something. If we rely on the morons at TSA making any judgement calls whatsoever about who looks safe, I don't care for our chances much.
Next we'll have some jughead from one of the usual suspected countries cramming C4 up a body cavity. After that, Aunt Bea will be in a room with a rubber glove.

Trust me, start with playing the probabilities of who fits a profile and we'll go from there.

[chickenhead]

Trust me, start with playing the probabilities of who fits a profile and we'll go from there.

You brought up El Al earlier.

El Al is doing a lot more beyond basic profiling, they know a lot more about that specific population, about anyone that shows up around there, and their footprint and the diversity they're dealing with is orders of magnitude smaller. I have much less confidence in that scaling well here, owing to the structural differences, the vast differences in geography, number of locations, and diversity of population, than in just doing much more to everyone. I'd imagine if faced with our circumstances rather than theirs, they'd still have focus, just as we have watch lists, but Aunt Bea's person and her luggage would get a lot more attention than she gets here, now. The baseline needs to be raised quite a lot. I imagine at El Al currently, Aunt Bea gets more focus than she gets here, now.

[ArlJim78]

its probably one in ten billion that you're going to find a bomb frisking people at airports. and for every one you find i'm sure several are missed. we waste a lot of time checking and rechecking the same people who fly weekly or monthly.

we have to do it but we should also be putting more resources looking at the target rich areas, watchlists, intel.

[PhantomOnTour]

Profiling is the way to go for starters. Someone on this thread stated earlier that we should do like El Al and I agree. Think about it, almost EVERYONE flying ElAl meets our American vision of what a terrorist looks like. You know; bearded, robed, turbaned maybe, probably smell bad too and yet they dont get attacked. Why? because their TSA guys are on top of their stuff!

Vigilance and common sense----and some good old fashioned profiling.

Sorry for the "smell bad" reference--I was on a roll there. Didnt mean to offend all those well behaved folks who happen to stink.

[bigmack]

Luring someone to kill themselves for a cause is a tough gig. Tougher still if you have have a room full of Lutheran's. Even tougher if it's an older Lutheran woman and the lure is 72 virgins.

Last I checked the preponderance of this type of activity are those of Muslim faith between the ages of 18-35. KLM didn't pilot one of the planes on 911 more than likely because he's older, has experienced virgins and found them to be overrated. Seriously though...

Can we cut the PC crap and just go ahead and play the probabilities?

[chickenhead]

Can we cut the PC crap and just go ahead and play the probabilities?

I don't consider it PC crap to do a more rather than less thorough job. Again, I don't trust TSA members on the ground making any kind of decisions like this, the fallback, the failsafe, needs to be good enough. A British Richard Reid made it through. An American John Lindh would make it through. The holes in it should be obvious. There is no worldwide Muslim directory assistance.

[boxcar]

We knew about this gent because his dad called us. If our primary means of protection is relying on a parent ratting out their kid, we are done before we begin. We can't assume pa is gonna call us, ergo -- we must assume we know nothing. Things like watch lists, while important, can be an extremely dangerous placebos and pacifiers, even if they were implemented properly, which they are obviously not.

I betcha the Israeli's use every means at their disposal, and I have to say that their track record is excellent. We really need to follow their lead with this.
What's killing us is PC, which is what accounts for untold numbers of our military losses, too.

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

Profiling is the way to go for starters. Someone on this thread stated earlier that we should do like El Al and I agree. Think about it, almost EVERYONE flying ElAl meets our American vision of what a terrorist looks like. You know; bearded, robed, turbaned maybe, probably smell bad too and yet they dont get attacked. Why? because their TSA guys are on top of their stuff!

Vigilance and common sense----and some good old fashioned profiling.

Sorry for the "smell bad" reference--I was on a roll there. Didn't mean to offend all those well behaved folks who happen to stink. I know someone fits the profile except the stinking part. He is from India and is a Sikh. He has hated Molsems with a real passion long before 9/11. Yet when he flies gets treated like one. He has built garage business into a company that does a over billion dollars a year in sales. He is worth over 100 million dollars. Yet according to you, he is fits the description of a terrorist. You are an idiot if you think singling out Sikhs is going stop a terrorist.

[chickenhead]

I betcha the Israeli's use every means at their disposal, and I have to say that their track record is excellent. We really need to follow their lead with this.
What's killing us is PC, which is what accounts for untold numbers of our military losses, too.

Boxcar

I am not saying don't give some people more attention, tho that is what people always want to make it seem like -- I am saying that the baseline needs to be good enough. A simple metal detector walk through, which is all that most ports of entry onto US planes have, just isn't.

Again, everyone wants to focus on profiling, but they are ignoring that El Als baseline security is much much higher. Every passenger gets searched, every passenger gets questioned. You look nervous, you get questioned some more. To ignore that as seems to be the want, because we don't want to get inconvenienced, is just foolhardy, imo.

[ezrabrooks]

Bomb on a plane = fail. The watch list stuff is secondary importance, way down the list. Keep bombs off da plane, whatever da name.

I understand why they don't want to do what needs to be done to be certain that bombs are kept off of planes. It's expensive, and people bitch and complain, but we really can't have bombs on planes. Pat downs, crotch grabs, full body imaging, bomb sniffin dogs, whatever. keep da bombs. off. da. planes.

I don't what them on our flights...to much can go wrong besides them having a bomb.. Enforce the Watch Lists...Inform all passingers when one of the members of the watch list gets on board...complete with seat number..

[bigmack]

I don't consider it PC crap to do a more rather than less thorough job. An American John Lindh would make it through. The holes in it should be obvious.
Lindh went one way in an acceptable direction.

I agree let's do more. Particularly for those who fall in a demographic grouping.

Take the secondary list which has 500,000 and put them all on the no-fly list. Any of them want to make their case they deserve to fly, so be it. They can fly anywhere they want, except here.

Now we have "no getting up and using the head 1 hour before landing" because of this turd? Everybody suffers because this guy who should not have been on the plane, had a bomb concoction in his boxers? BS
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_says_at_l.html

Poor Aunt Bea & I can't take a leak before deplaning and we have some Nigerian El Qaeda creep & Napolitano to thank for it. Sleep well knowing you or I can't hit the head for over an hour but this guy can get on a plane to this country. :bang:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/12_28_09_15_03_29.png

[boxcar]

I am not saying don't give some people more attention, tho that is what people always want to make it seem like -- I am saying that the baseline needs to be good enough. A simple metal detector walk through, which is all that most ports of entry onto US planes have, just isn't.

Again, everyone wants to focus on profiling, but they are ignoring that El Als baseline security is much much higher. Every passenger gets searched, every passenger gets questioned. You look nervous, you get questioned some more. To ignore that as seems to be the want, because we don't want to get inconvenienced, is just foolhardy, imo.

Okay...here's the "perfect" solution: Anyone with a passport from a Muslim country or with an Arabic name is barred from flying on any commercial airliner. How's that for a "baseline"? Exception: Government officials from a Muslim country who have passed high security screens. This policy just might tick off enough of the "moderate" Muslims to motivate them to turn in the radicals and get the world back to "normal".

More rationale: Why should billions of law-abiding airline passengers every year be unnecessarily inconvenienced due to a relatively few sick mental cases who think it's cool to go around blowing things and people up? Would not such policy be for the GREATER "public good"? Why should the Many be made to suffer for the sins of the Few?

Moreover, more intense security screening measures could still be implemented for all passengers whose passports contain stamps from Muslim countries.

Now, this is quite a "baseline", don't you agree? :)

Boxcar

[chickenhead]

hmmm personally accept some small inconvenience for the greater good, or ban a large portion of the world population from air travel so I won't have to be bothered for 5 minutes every few months.

I'm going to have to deeply ponder which best fits with what I want my country to be about, it's a tough one.

[boxcar]

hmmm personally accept some small inconvenience for the greater good, or ban a large portion of the world population from air travel so I won't have to be bothered for 5 minutes every few months.

I'm going to have to deeply ponder which best fits with what I want my country to be about, it's a tough one.

From what I hear it's a lot more than five minutes for most people. But aside from that, for a moment, why would we not want to keep the "believers" out of our country (and all "unbelieving countries", for that matter), as much as the believers want us and all other "infidels" out of their countries? Do you have any compelling reason why we should make it easier for "them" to come here and kill "us"? If you do, I'm all ears.

Boxcar
P.S. What I want my country to be all about is recognizing that the radical Muslims are at war with us, regardless of what BO says!

[Robert Goren]

I betcha the Israeli's use every means at their disposal, and I have to say that their track record is excellent. We really need to follow their lead with this.
What's killing us is PC, which is what accounts for untold numbers of our military losses, too.

BoxcarActually it is not, there is hardly a week goes by without a suicide bomber blowing himself up somewhere in Israel.

[boxcar]

Actually it is not, there is hardly a week goes by without a suicide bomber blowing himself up somewhere in Israel.

Well...consider the geography of the area for a few moments. Is not Israel surrounded by Arab nations?

Boxcar
P.S. Thank God, though, Israel has the friendly Mediterranean its back. :rolleyes:

[ElKabong]

Meanwhile, back at the Hawaii ranch....On the way home I listened to a snippett of 0bama's pep talk on how he's going to right the wrongers....0bama actually called the terrorist a "suspect".

I knew 0bama was a dumbass, but this takes the cake. Dude's undies are on fire, shooting flames 4' high and he's a "suspect".

LMAO @ the assclown.

[bigmack]

hmmm personally accept some small inconvenience for the greater good, or ban a large portion of the world population from air travel so I won't have to be bothered for 5 minutes every few months.

I'm going to have to deeply ponder which best fits with what I want my country to be about, it's a tough one.
Come to your senses. What you want your country to be about? :lol:

Asking people with suspected terrorist ties to go through a series of hoops to garner their ability to fly commercially into this country and you're worried about the impression that might leave of this country? Wow.

I gotta watch more Dr. Phil and get in touch with my sensitive side.

Meanwhile, millions of regular folk take their shoes off to go from places like Cleveland to Buffalo because of Richard Reid and now kids flying from Jersey to Orange County will have to sit in their seats (with nothing in their laps) one hour before the plane lands, & longer as delays occur and taxiing takes place, without using the restroom because of this dolt.

Homeland Security is acting like a laughable plant manager. Billy Bob comes into work wearing a green shirt, he's drunk, drives the forklift into a wall and injures 4 people. Plant manager puts out a decree the next day "New rule: No one is allowed to wear green shirts while in the plant" :bang:

[bigmack]

Homeland Security is acting like a laughable plant manager. Billy Bob comes into work wearing a green shirt, he's drunk, drives the forklift into a wall and injures 4 people. Plant manager puts out a decree the next day "New rule: No one is allowed to wear green shirts while in the plant" :bang:
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/breaking_news160BlinkLarge.gif

This just in: Billy Bob didn't even have a job at the plant. Security let him in carte blanche.

Meanwhile, the "No Green Shirt" policy stands. We can't be too careful.

[chickenhead]

Come to your senses. What you want your country to be about? :lol:

Asking people with suspected terrorist ties to go through a series of hoops to garner their ability to fly commercially into this country and you're worried about the impression that might leave of this country? Wow.

Mack, there is nothing I hate more than someone twisting my words, it's something I generally relate to an utter lack of character, not something I'd generally associated with you.

I'll assume this dishonesty is purely unintentional, but it's something I'd suggest you keep an eye on, or people might get the wrong idea about you.

My response was to:

Anyone with a passport from a Muslim country or with an Arabic name is barred from flying on any commercial airliner.

that paraphrases to you as:

Asking people with suspected terrorist ties to go through a series of hoops to garner their ability to fly commercially into this country and you're worried about the impression that might leave of this country?

Suspected terrorist? Nope.
Series of hoops? Nope.
Garner Ability to fly? Nope.

Basically sharing no relation to one another. Make up a premise, pretend it's what someone spoke to, and try to get in some cheap shots? That's your level of debate? Say it aint so. And to up the irony level, you're shaking your head in mock admonishment of me? Wow indeed.

[bigmack]

hmmm personally accept some small inconvenience for the greater good, or ban a large portion of the world population from air travel so I won't have to be bothered for 5 minutes every few months.

I'm going to have to deeply ponder which best fits with what I want my country to be about, it's a tough one.
You were responding to Boxie here. I responded. If that's taking you out of context I doubt it.

You're asking for us all to undergo the same amount of scrutiny because anyone of us could be strapping C4 or an explosive device. I say that's poppycock and we should zero in on those who are most likely to engage in this behavior and not adopt a knee-jerk Home Land Security reaction that addresses the incident de jour.

Come on, we have to stay in our seats for an hour plus because this guy was unwittingly let on a plane he shouldn't have been?

We both know profiling has its limitations, but it's OK to do. Asking regular folk going from Napa to Peoria to remain in their seats for an hour as a response to this is nuts.

[boxcar]

You were responding to Boxie here. I responded. If that's taking you out of context I doubt it.

Your response was okay, Mack. Actually, I'm still waiting for Chick to answer my questions that I posed to him. Plus I wouldn't mind finding out what he thinks our country is all about. (Personally, I never thought we were about being played for fools and suckers. I don't think we're about assuming unnecessary risks by imprudently tossing caution to the wind; but I suppose I could be wrong.)

Boxcar

[chickenhead]

You're asking for us all to undergo the same amount of scrutiny because anyone of us could be strapping C4 or an explosive device. I say that's poppycock and we should zero in on those who are most likely to engage in this behavior and not adopt a knee-jerk Home Land Security reaction that addresses the incident de jour.

Well again, no, that is not really what I ever said at all. I never said we all need to undergo the same amount of scrutiny, I said we all need to undergo more scrutiny. I don't see that as a subtle point. By all means give more scrutiny to more suspect folk, that's not really what I've been addressing. I am saying that the level of scrutiny that is "normal" is too low. You brought up El Al. El Al interviews everyone, some people a short interview, some people a very long one, it depends a lot on the answers you give. We interview no one. What does any questioning mean? It's a higher level of "normal", for everyone. Even Aunt Bea.

They start to question everyone, because they end up doing a lot of long interviews on people that are not muslim young men. Would Americans, as utterly selfish as they are, with their "I'm special like a snowflake" pov put up with that as a possiblity? To get grilled for an hour or two for no other reason than they're acting nervous? I doubt it -- but it's ridiculous to pretend that that is NOT part and parcel of a group like El Als security model. El Al has in fact found actual bombs carried by, as an example, a German, non-Muslim, man who had no idea he had it, he thought he was smuggling diamonds. Didn't meet any kind of profile, whatsoever. Just seemed nervous. Now that just can't be ignored, it happens. They prevented that particular attack because they get up in everyones business a lot more than we do, not just young muslim men. They give everyone a chance to act nervous while they're watching closely.

It's very much with our times to think we can have it all, great protection with little inconvenience except to the guys wearing black hats, but the reality is, there is no model to point at that does that. It means higher inconvenience for everyone.

Now, I don't really think what El Al does is scalable, its a lot easier to have talented people in 40 places than it is 4000. Which is why I'm less a fan of relying on interviews than I am on relying on inspections. Theres a whole lot less nuance to an inspection. In a lot of ways, I could give a shit how nervous someone is, so long as they ain't got a bomb on them.

Come on, we have to stay in our seats for an hour plus because this guy was unwittingly let on a plane he shouldn't have been?

We both know profiling has its limitations, but it's OK to do. Asking regular folk going from Napa to Peoria to remain in their seats for an hour as a response to this is nuts.

I never spoke up for keeping people in their seats, it doesn't make any sense to me. But I've also read they were giving people some pretty thorough pat downs in the wake of this, which is something I fully support and hope they not only keep but apply consistently. I could literally give two shits whether it makes someone feel uncomfortable. You can't handle a good frisking, take a bus. Most people are in need of a good frisk, anyways.

[bigmack]

Would Americans, as utterly selfish as they are, with their "I'm special like a snowflake" pov put up with that as a possiblity? To get grilled for an hour or two for no other reason than they're acting nervous? I doubt it

Huh. "Americans selfish/special like a snowflake?" Sounds jaded. One might think you're coming from a position of resentment. That can't be, you're an American. (wave flag, cue God Bless America music) "We don't do anything wrong". Is that what you'd like to hear?

Then again, you might be pigeonholing anyone concerned about security and having some level of common sense being resentful of having to go through new travelling rules because those who should have kept this turd off a plane didn't! Who's on the high horse here? You asking everyone to endure new provisions or us asking those in the positions of security to do their jobs and keep these turds off planes coming to this country? You posture with a very broad brush. I'd like to paint with a more detailed brush. Arguably, you're painting an ugly wall, I'm working on a detailed area that needs some work.

I never spoke up for keeping people in their seats, it doesn't make any sense to me. But I've also read they were giving people some pretty thorough pat downs in the wake of this, which is something I fully support and hope they not only keep but apply consistently. I could literally give two shits whether it makes someone feel uncomfortable. You can't handle a good frisking, take a bus. Most people are in need of a good frisk, anyways.
Somebody contact the ACLU.

[mostpost]

Before posting the link to a Freeper post, let's rewind back to yesterday to my post #22. In that post, I laid out what the new rules are for passengers during the last hour of flight. And I raised the question, essentially: Why would anyone in their right mind concoct such idiotic rules? Why would anyone "handcuff" the passengers and make them more helpless? Why would anyone remove the last line of defense between a terrorist and the hard ground below?

After reading this Freeper post (linked below), I can now understand more clearly just how sick and perverted statism really is. When you read this post, you can immediately see the parallel between the mindset of the writer to the Boston Globe and how he justifies his stance and that of the authority who drafted the new in-flight rules.

The rationale of the Globe opinion piece writer is that it's unfair to reward the resourceful because somehow this comes at the expense of the not-so-resourceful -- not-so-smart, etc. In his mind, the playing field must be kept level at all costs. The outcomes must be kept equal -- even if it means he'd have to sacrifice his own child's life in the process! (See the last line in the post!)

This very seriously sick mental attitude of the Globe contributor must be the same one that inspired the author(s) of the new in-flight rules. They obviously desire to level the playing field. It's not fair that the terrorist has to face mobile passengers when he's restricted to his seat because he's so preoccupied trying to blow the plane up.

It's not fair that there are more of the good guys than bad.

It's not fair there are brave, courageous people on board trying to thwart a coward's attempt at a minute of fame.

Does everyone see the parallels? These new, idiotic rules effectively level the playing field, don't they? They make it a little easier for the terrorist to succeed in his evil mission because the rules make it more difficult for the good guys to succeed in defending themselves. The new rules help level the playing field between Good and Evil. Good wins out too often, so something has to be done about that!

Liberalism is truly a disease of the mind and soul. It's an unnatural, evil perversion of all this is good. Here's the link:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2416353/posts

Boxcar
Doug Van Groder is an idiot. Either that or he was in a contest to write the dumbest letter to the editor in world history. And he won!!! Did he really say that students who have the resourcefulness to reach safety should not do so because it would be unfair to students who could not do so? He didn't really say that?
I have to go lay down; I just realized I agreed with Boxcar on something.

[chickenhead]

hen again, you might be pigeonholing anyone concerned about security and having some level of common sense being resentful of having to go through new travelling rules because those who should have kept this turd off a plane didn't!

I'm questioning by what means they possibly think security is good if someone can carry a bomb onto a plane in his underwear. Not a muslim, anyone. ANYONE for chrissakes! That's common sense to me. Maybe I have finally lost my mind, who knows. I mean, we talk El Al,the gold standard, they've caught a few non-Muslims. Non scary. Which gets me back to, ANYONE! It needs to be harder than hiding a bomb in your undies.

You brought up the bunghole -- you and I will make peace on this issue when the bunger is the only option. It's obviously not, and to me thats a problem. Let the bunger be it -- and we can talk about having someone running a finger around in there for the scary types.

[boxcar]

Doug Van Groder is an idiot. Either that or he was in a contest to write the dumbest letter to the editor in world history. And he won!!! Did he really say that students who have the resourcefulness to reach safety should not do so because it would be unfair to students who could not do so? He didn't really say that?
I have to go lay down; I just realized I agreed with Boxcar on something.

This is an omen. Your New Year's resolution should be to sit at my feet and permit me to mentor you in order to eventually liberate you from the funk of your liberalism. ;)

Boxcar

[boxcar]

It needs to be harder than hiding a bomb in your undies.

Okay...so, what's harder for a terrorist to do: Kill people in the U.S. from foreign soil or try to kill us on our own soil? This was the thrust of my recommendations in #73.

Boxcar
P.S. Knock, knock: Anyone home? :bang: :bang:

[bigmack]

I'm questioning by what means they possibly think security is good if someone can carry a bomb onto a plane in his underwear. Not a muslim, anyone. ANYONE for chrissakes! .
Anyone? Turns out serial killers are about 98% white.

You're the Sheriff in Detroit in the midst of a serial killing and you ask every man black/white to submit to a DNA test.

Nice political move. Stats show you're wasting your time with the exception of 1% of those you've, as you put, 'inconvenienced'.

Again, probabilities point in a direction. Your "ANYONE for chrissakes!" is mere theatrics and nonsensical.

[mostpost]

And today, Janet Napolitano said the system worked!
Is this lady the dumbest idiot on the planet or what????

THIS piece of crap is in charge of Homeland security?
The Obama administration couldn't have made a worse pick. KSM would be a better one than this vegetable-head.

Lord help us all to survive our first terror-sponsoring administration.
When Napolitano said the system worked, she was referring to the events FOLLOWING the incident on the plane. How do I know this? I heard it on one of those progressive shows. What was the name of that show....oh yeah The Sean Hannity show. And, even though we know Sean never lies, I listened to the interview with Candy Crowley myself. Every example which Napolitano gave of how the "System worked" concerned actions taken after the incident.

But that leads me to a question I have. Everyone agrees that there was a failure of the system. That failure occured at the airport at which the Nigerian boarded the plane. (Amsterdam?) So, when was the Obama administration put in charge of security at a Dutch airport? How are they responsible for inefficiency or incompetence in a sovereign country?

[chickenhead]

Anyone? Turns out serial killers are about 98% white.

You're the Sheriff in Detroit in the midst of a serial killing and you ask every man black/white to submit to a DNA test.

Nice political move. Stats show you're wasting your time with the exception of 1% of those you've, as you put, 'inconvenienced'.

Again, probabilities point in a direction. Your "ANYONE for chrissakes!" is mere theatrics and nonsensical.

Does a 30 year old Irish woman count for ANYONE? Go ahead and write the 375 people that would have been blowed up, and tell them all about inconvenience and how airport folks ought to practice some common sense, and quit wasting peoples time.

In 1986, Anne-Marie Murphy, a 32-year-old Irish woman, was interviewed at Heathrow Airport before boarding an El Al flight from London to Tel Aviv. When asked the purpose of her trip, she said that she was traveling to Israel to see her Jordanian fiancé, the father of her unborn child. Two factors made the interviewer suspicious: it was unusual for a pregnant young woman to travel alone, and although Ms. Murphy said she planned to stay in Israel for a week, she did not check any luggage and had only one carry-on bag. Further questioning revealed that she planned to stay at the Tel Aviv Hilton and to pay with a credit card. When the card was examined, it proved to be an ID that allowed her only to cash checks in the United Kingdom. At this point, Ms. Murphy was declared a suspicious traveler and subjected to greater scrutiny. Her carry-on bag was emptied, weighed, and found to be unusually heavy. X-ray examination revealed a false bottom containing a grayish material that proved to be plastic explosive. Unbeknownst to Ms. Murphy, her fiancé was a Palestinian terrorist who had concealed in her bag a bomb designed to detonate in flight, with the intent of killing all 375 passengers on board

[bigmack]

Does a 30 year old Irish woman count for ANYONE? Go ahead and write the 375 people that would have been blowed up, and tell them all about inconvenience and how airport folks ought to practice some common sense, and quit wasting peoples time.
Nice work. With any luck, MostPost can site Ted Kaczynski and Rookies can roll with Tim McVeigh.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, we'll get back to discussing people getting on planes that are bound for a country I live in, am proud of, and would rather not see my neighbors ridiculously encumbered because of a foreign piece of garbage.

God help me. I hope I'm able to sleep at night because of my dreaded thoughts of profiling.

[bigmack]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/12_29_09_00_04_11.png

I welcome anyone being interviewed prior to an international flight by the departing country to another country of their intent, destination, etc.. irrespective of gender/color/religious affiliation/et al.

It would have thwarted the boarding of this clown with his undie bomb.

In light of my stance, would you be willing to see the absurdity of insisting people not use the restroom for an hour prior to landing as a reaction to this incident on a domestic flight?

[Greyfox]

But that leads me to a question I have. Everyone agrees that there was a failure of the system. That failure occured at the airport at which the Nigerian boarded the plane. (Amsterdam?) So, when was the Obama administration put in charge of security at a Dutch airport? How are they responsible for inefficiency or incompetence in a sovereign country?


How is the Obama administration responsible for inefficiency or incompetence in a sovereign country?

1. The U.S. Government has to set up a first stage of "Customs Clearance"
in every airport sending flights to American soil. Prescreening in those countries by Americans would decrease the probability of that type of attack.
In some countries those precustoms clearances already exist. If there was one in Amsterdam, then Obama is in charge. If there wasn't one in Amsterdam, he needs to establish one there.

2. Luggage that is checked in on most flights (not carry on) is only given a cursory inspection. This is a major problem.

[exactaplayer]

So I guess you are suggesting we become the WORLDS police. If it were up to me I would just have everybody flying strip down, put on a Depends and jump suit and then handcuff them to their seat for the duration. ;)

[Greyfox]

So I guess you are suggesting we become the WORLDS police. ;)

Don't offer such a downward assimilation. Puhleese.
I think that there are certain countrys that cannot be trusted to sufficiently screen terrorists before they ever get over American soil. In fact some of their prescreeners may be of a similar ilk.

[boxcar]

When Napolitano said the system worked, she was referring to the events FOLLOWING the incident on the plane. How do I know this? I heard it on one of those progressive shows. What was the name of that show....oh yeah The Sean Hannity show. And, even though we know Sean never lies, I listened to the interview with Candy Crowley myself. Every example which Napolitano gave of how the "System worked" concerned actions taken after the incident.

But that leads me to a question I have. Everyone agrees that there was a failure of the system. That failure occured at the airport at which the Nigerian boarded the plane. (Amsterdam?) So, when was the Obama administration put in charge of security at a Dutch airport? How are they responsible for inefficiency or incompetence in a sovereign country?

So, then, the U.S. is at the mercy of the efficiency and effectiveness of security procedures of OTHERS, correct? You just conceded this, correct? Since the strength of a chain, therefore, is only as good as its weakest link, why not strengthen those weak links by barring Muslims (with exceptions as noted earlier in this thread) from entering our country? Allow me one of my impeccable analogies of how efficient and effective my idea would be by relating how I deal with a few of my unruly puddies.

As most here know, I have several cats. Three of the most recent adopted are all from one family -- Mama and her two [still] kittenish daughters. Mama and daughters can play havoc with the peace and tranquility of the house, especially in the early morning hours. And Mama, in particular, can get rather obnoxious with her incessant scratching on our bedroom door, which we keep closed.

The racket and disturbance and scratching would inevitably force one of us to get up and try to round up the three cute little female beasties and stick them in the utility room, which is off the main house. But they got wise to that trick in a hurry and would run all over the house to hide from us.

But we humans (well at least some of us) are smarter than animals, and since my wife is a night owl, anyway, decided that at various times during her waking hours, she would round up the three puddies and stick them in the utility room -- and there they would spend the night -- and we'd be far removed and insulated from their early morning shenanigans. (My wife refers to the procedure as "exiling" them. :D )

The solution was very simple, wasn't it? Instead of engaging the three misfits at the most inopportune times, and instead of allowing them to upset the other 6 well-behaved cats we have, we found a way to "cut them off" from the main house. This way, everyone is at peace.

Therefore, why shouldn't the U.S. adopt the same kind of solution with Muslim terrorists? Why don't we cut them off at the pass? Why do we allow them into our country at all? Would it not be much harder for terrorists to kill U.S. citizens on U.S. soil from afar than it would be if they're on or over our soil?

I have pressed Chick for an answer to these questions a few times. And while he has said that we need to make it "harder" for people to get on planes with explosive devices, it appears he wants to go only so far with with his brand of "harder". He said that he wants to make things "harder" (for everyone concerned -- terrorists and law-abiding people alike!), but apparently only if the U.S. behaves in a politically correct manner. It seems it would be too uncouth for the U.S. government to lay out the Unwelcome Mat to certain people who want to come to this country, although I always thought that foreigners coming to this country for any reason was a privilege -- not some God-given right.

But what sayest you, Mosty? If the U.S. were to adopt my simple idea as policy, would this not greatly reduce the risk for a terrorist attack on U.S. soil (our embassies in foreign countries, excepted). And would it not make life a little easier for innocent travelers? Would not airline passengers be able to breathe a little bit easier?

Boxcar

[Tom]

Funny how they were all over Bush for not connecting the dots for 9-11.
This time, Obama dropped the ball and if not for a bit of luck, hundreds in the plane and on the ground might be dead today. This is serious and the moron trivialized it by calling him a "lone extremist." BS - he is a radical terrorist.
An act of war was committed against us on Christmas day and it took the jerk 4 days to even reply publicly. Instead of treating this animal as an enemy combatant, which he clearly is, we treat him like a shoplifter. He should be in Gitmo being intensly interogated today. Al Qeda has calimed they supporte dhim and he claims there are more like him. If there ever a case for "torture" this is it. But no. We make grandma no pee for the last hour of her flight. Wow.

For sure, if they try this again and it work, it 100% on Obama.

And, we are paying for his health care and lawyer. Great country
Those severe burns he has would be a prime target for initial interogation.

[chickenhead]

I have pressed Chick for an answer to these questions a few times. And while he has said that we need to make it "harder" for people to get on planes with explosive devices, it appears he wants to go only so far with with his brand of "harder".

Yes, I believe we should make it extremely hard for anyone to get on a plane with a bomb. I'm kooky like that.

He said that he wants to make things "harder" (for everyone concerned -- terrorists and law-abiding people alike!),

You are a child. Terrorists and law abiding people alike! Yes, because law abiding people have tried to bring bombs on planes before, and have commited acts of terrorism before. I know I know, it doesn't fit your argument, so it should be ignored. Eschew reality to stroke yourself.

It seems it would be too uncouth for the U.S. government to lay out the Unwelcome Mat to certain people who want to come to this country, although I always thought that foreigners coming to this country for any reason was a privilege -- not some God-given right.

If someone has an arabic name, but no weapons, no bombs, and no extenuating circumstances -- there is zero reason to not have them flying as much as they'd like. They could live on a plane for all I care. Just make sure about the no weapons, no bombs, and no extenuating circumstances. This is precisely what El Al does. Something you and others here professed admiration for, before it became inconvenient because what they do also doesn't jibe with the idea of saving any of us from inconvenience.

Our real point of disagreement has nothing to do with Arabs, it's just for some kooky reason I also want to make sure people without Arabic names or a big sign that says "terrorist" hanging around their neck also don't have bombs, weapons, or extenuating circumstances -- and I rank that above convenience.

You'll forgive me if I think that you designing a security regimen based primarily on your own personal comfort and childlike trust of anyone not fitting an extremely distinct profile is severly lacking. One only needs to look at history to see that it is, but what the hell, go with your gut.

[Greyfox]

.
I think that there are certain countrys that cannot be trusted to sufficiently screen terrorists before they ever get over American soil. In fact some of their prescreeners may be of a similar ilk.


Further to what I said above, the Drudge Report has the following headline:

From Times Online

December 29, 2009


'Hundreds of al-Qaeda militants planning attacks from Yemen'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article6970574.ece

Start prescreening any flights from there today!

[boxcar]

Yes, I believe we should make it extremely hard for anyone to get on a plane with a bomb. I'm kooky like that.



You are a child. Terrorists and law abiding people alike! Yes, because law abiding people have tried to bring bombs on planes before, and have commited acts of terrorism before. I know I know, it doesn't fit your argument, so it should be ignored. Eschew reality to stroke yourself.

IF (and this is a very big IF), some innocent person was truly was duped into carrying a bomb or explosive device onto a plane, chances are many he or she picked that up in some Muslim country. See post #71, for I have addressed this issue previously. Plus this a staw man, for I never even remotely suggested that we drop all other security measures.


If someone has an arabic name, but no weapons, no bombs, and no extenuating circumstances -- there is zero reason to not have them flying as much as they'd like. They could live on a plane for all I care. Just make sure about the no weapons, no bombs, and no extenuating circumstances. This is precisely what El Al does. Something you and others here professed admiration for, before it became inconvenient because what they do also doesn't jibe with the idea of saving any of us from inconvenience.

But why should the good guys be inconvenienced at all? And why increase the risk of an attack by letting a Muslim into our country to begin with?

Our real point of disagreement has nothing to do with Arabs, it's just for some kooky reason I also want to make sure people without Arabic names or a big sign that says "terrorist" hanging around their neck also don't have bombs, weapons, or extenuating circumstances -- and I rank that above convenience.

[quote]You'll forgive me if I think that you designing a security regimen based primarily on your own personal comfort and childlike trust of anyone not fitting an extremely distinct profile is severly lacking.

And I say we can have both -- more security and more convenience. But all you want to do is stick with the status quo -- by making things "harder" for the bad guys, within the same ol' politically correct framework, you would also increase the inconvenience level for innocent passengers. Again, why should the Many be made to suffer for the Few?

If there was a flu outbreak, would not the U.S. government demand that the "few" infected be isolated (quarantined) from the "many" in order to protect as many of the latter as possible? Then why would not this common sense procedure make sense with battling terrorism? This strategy would be the first line of defense, would it not? Why shouldn't also be the first line with Muslim terrorists? We isolate them. We cut them off. We keep them out. We make it more difficult for them to hurt us!

Burying your head in the sand, Chick, is not going to solve the problem. My solution, while not perfect (see #71 again), would be a big step, nonetheless, in the right direction given the long historic trail we have to go by. This long, checkered history, is the very reason I do have a rational distrust of all Muslims. It's not, therefore, a question of me blindly trusting all non-Muslims. (Now it is you putting words into my mouth!) I never suggested that we drop all other security measures. But those measures could be streamlined and implemented more efficiently and effectively once we bar all Muslims from entering our country. No foreigner has any right to enter our borders. Visiting the U.S. is a privilege -- not a right. So, it seems to me, sir, that you're the one totally out of touch with reality! And then you tell me to look at history? :bang:

Boxcar

[ArlJim78]

heres the future. I ran across one of these somewhere in the US, I forget which airport it was. Frankly I had no idea that they could see everything this clearly, and I think its over the top. If this is the future of flying I guess you can count me out. whats next? the first time a guy gets on board with a bomb in his anus I suppose full body cavity searches will become mandatory to get on the plane.



http://media.nbcdfw.com/images/410*307/Airport+Body+Scan.jpg

[Greyfox]

heres the future. I ran across one of these somewhere in the US, I forget which airport it was. Frankly I had no idea that they could see everything this clearly, and I think its over the top. If this is the future of flying I guess you can count me out. whats next? the first time a guy gets on board with a bomb in his anus I suppose full body cavity searches will become mandatory to get on the plane.



http://media.nbcdfw.com/images/410*307/Airport+Body+Scan.jpg

Yes. That is the future. But as I understand it the person viewing the scan is in a room where he/she cannot see you. They would not be able to identify you tomorrow on the street.

[chickenhead]

heres the future. I ran across one of these somewhere in the US, I forget which airport it was. Frankly I had no idea that they could see everything this clearly, and I think its over the top. If this is the future of flying I guess you can count me out. whats next? the first time a guy gets on board with a bomb in his anus I suppose full body cavity searches will become mandatory to get on the plane.



http://media.nbcdfw.com/images/410*307/Airport+Body+Scan.jpg

I am all for holographic junk inspections. They ought to rig it like at Magic Mountain, and hassle you to buy a picture of it for $10 when you come out the other side. :lol:

They apparently cost around $150K each.

[chickenhead]

you can request a pat down if you prefer and bypass these machines. I went through one somewhere, Dulles maybe.

[Robert Goren]

I think if they try to increase security by profiling that the terrorists, they will find a way to appear not to fit the the profile. I could be wrong. We are not dealing the brightest light bulbs in the building here. JMO

[bigmack]

There are always subtle signs

http://www.emptyquarter.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/gayterrorist.png

[Robert Goren]

There are always subtle signs

http://www.emptyquarter.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/gayterrorist.png:lol: :lol: :lol:

[bigmack]

Does a 30 year old Irish woman count for ANYONE? Go ahead and write the 375 people that would have been blowed up, and tell them all about inconvenience and how airport folks ought to practice some common sense, and quit wasting peoples time.
If:

- She paid cold hard cash for her ticket
- It was one way
- Her dad contacted authorities of the potentiality of her being a terrorist
- She was refused her Visa in the UK

I say profile away. Profiling doesn't always have to be religious/ethnic. But it's OK if it is. :D

[Saratoga_Mike]

heres the future. I ran across one of these somewhere in the US, I forget which airport it was. Frankly I had no idea that they could see everything this clearly, and I think its over the top. If this is the future of flying I guess you can count me out. whats next? the first time a guy gets on board with a bomb in his anus I suppose full body cavity searches will become mandatory to get on the plane.



http://media.nbcdfw.com/images/410*307/Airport+Body+Scan.jpg

You agree with Nancy Pelosi et al on this one. There's a bill before the House right now that would outlaw the use of this technology in US airports, based on "privacy" concerns. It's a Democratically-sponsored bill and was (obviously) introduced prior to the thwarted Detroit terrorist attack. It will go nowhere, but I guess you can try to rally Reps behind it. I'm not with you.

[cj's dad]

heres the future. I ran across one of these somewhere in the US, I forget which airport it was. Frankly I had no idea that they could see everything this clearly, and I think its over the top. If this is the future of flying I guess you can count me out. whats next? the first time a guy gets on board with a bomb in his anus I suppose full body cavity searches will become mandatory to get on the plane.



http://media.nbcdfw.com/images/410*307/Airport+Body+Scan.jpg

BWI has one ! I have had to go through because of a replacement hip made of Titanium.

[Robert Goren]

If we actually have a bomb go off on a plane in mid air, there will be no debate on what to do. They will do it all and then some. No one who looks like a Muslim, has a Muslim name, or is from a Muslim country will be allowed on a plane. There will be these high tech scanners everywhere and no one even Aunt Bea and children will be except from random ( some not so random) body searches. The attitude will be we are going the air safe by any means possible and"If you don't like it, don't fly".

[Tom]

you can request a pat down if you prefer

Woo Hoo!
Do I have to have a ticket somewhere, or can I just show up at the airport? :eek:

[Robert Goren]

The buck passing is already began. Although there is plenty of blame to go around every agency will start defending it's turf. As usual the CIA is out front on this issue. They had Rep. Dan Burton (R-Ind) making the rounds of the cable news networks last night defending them. The rest will not be far behind. They all have some idiot congressman or senator that they can call on to lead the charge of blaming someone else for their foul ups.

[Tom]

If only we covered our borders half as well as we cover our asses.

[Trotman]

Great way to thwart a terrorist at our Airports. Set up a Pulled Pork Sandwich stand at all check ins and have all passengers eat one,those who resist take em in to custody.
Next place agents at all washroom doors and if they come out with a stinky hand take em in to custody. If they can wipe their ass with their bare hand but find pork unclean then you have yourself a terrorist. :lol:

[JustRalph]

http://justralph.com/security.jpg

Once Again..........It's Bush.......versus Obama............

These guys are killing me............and they are going to try this shit in the 2010 election too............

[JustRalph]

Has Obama lost Maureen ??

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/30/unfair-attack-from-the-right-on-obamas-lack-of-response/

I predicted two years........... after a year I am loving this failure in chief

[PaceAdvantage]

Wow, that Dowd piece was fantastic...some really choice quotes:

If we can’t catch a Nigerian with a powerful explosive powder in his oddly feminine-looking underpants and a syringe full of acid, a man whose own father had alerted the U.S. Embassy in Nigeria, a traveler whose ticket was paid for in cash and who didn’t check bags, whose visa renewal had been denied by the British, who had studied Arabic in Al Qaeda sanctuary Yemen, whose name was on a counterterrorism watch list, who can we catch?On Tuesday, Obama stepped up to the microphone to admit what Janet Napolitano (who learned nothing from an earlier Janet named Reno) had first tried to deny: that there had been “a systemic failure” and a “catastrophic breach of security.”

But in a mystifying moment that was not technically or emotionally reassuring, there was no live video and it looked as though the Obama operation was flying by the seat of its pants.Heck of a job, Barry.

[Robert Goren]

It was Dutch screeners who failed to catch this guy, not American. But no one told them about him. We have got figure who dropped the ball. It is beginning to look like someone at the CIA although there still a ways to in the investigation. It seems to me when a well respected person turns in his own son someone should pay attention. We have either got do better at intelligence or better at searches. From the pictures I saw this guy, I would say it very hard to pick him out as a terrorist. He looked to me like an average 20ish black man. He surely didn't look Arab.

[PaceAdvantage]

It was Dutch screeners who failed to catch this guy, not American.He boarded an American airliner, did he not? An American airliner that undoubtedly was hooked up to some sort of American database, at least at SOME point along the way...

On almost every level, there is no excuse.

[Tom]

Barry the Boob said the system is outdated during the campaign ( the one before the election).

He has been in charge for almost a year - so it is HIS fault it was not fixed.

TWO friggin attacks in under a year - 0 fer 7 years under Bush.
We find ourselves back under democrat rule, where terror attacks come about once a month, like under Billy-Bob-Job-Clinton.

Expect more. And worse. With libs in charge, there is no national security.
Ijn our most dangerous era, we have handed the keys over to idiots and cowards. We have no one to blame but ourselves for the deaths to come.
This sack o' garbage N Chief cannot even say the word terror. He is a disgrace and a yellow-bellied coward. No one in the world respects him and we are a joke with him command. And all the world knows it.

[Tom]

Barry the Boob said that we should thank the brave passenger who intervened.

What he meant to say was, "I ain't much, depend on the Dutch!"

[cj's dad]

that only 5 posts out of 122 total are from the looney left; you know who you are, and of those 5 none make sense or are relative to the thread starter.

Post #6 is my nomination for dumbest post of the year and of course any post by Mostie is part of the BOAT (Barack Obama Apology Tour).

Barack Hussein Obama - working 24/7 to keep us safe -

- even while golfing in Hawaii

mmm mmm mmm

[boxcar]

There is a HUGE problem with national security in the country because Libs don't believe there is any such thing as a war going on with Muslim radicals -- despite the fact that these radicals have declared war on us. These people want to bring down America. They want to destroy us and our way of life anyway they can. Yet the Moron-in-Chief insists that we treat our enemy like common street criminals. He insists that we're not at war with Muslims, even though a large, growing and vociferous faction have declared war against us. We're not take to them seriously, I suppose. We're just supposed to ignore their irrational hatred toward us. We're supposed to turn a blind eye. But this stupid, illogical, irrational attitude is putting American men, women and children at far greater risk than what is necessary.

As stated previously, since they have declared war against us, then the U.S government should take every precaution so that it can fulfill its Constitutional duty to AMERICANS to protect us. But rather, this despicable, corrupt, anti-American, treasonous government would much rather talk about giving all Constitutional rights to the enemy who desires to destroy us, rather than giving all preferences to Americans and making its top priority obedience to the mandate in the Constitution that requires the government to protect us. But this clearly isn't the government's top priority, is it? It can't be when they ignore the facts that a growing number of Muslims are if fact at war with us. Because of current U.S. policy against terrorism (a word now that is virtually out of vogue in politically correct D.C.), we could liken our strategy as climbing into to boxing ring with one hand tied behind our back, and our feet hobbled just to give our opponent a fair chance at beating us -- because after all we don't want to insult anyone! That's just not the kind of America we are, I suppose. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

We need a true leader in this country who will recognize reality for what it is, and not try to reinvent or remold it to fit into liberals' presuppositions about the world. We need to realize that we are at war, whether we like it or not. And as such, we don't invite or welcome the enemy to our shores. We don't allow them behind our lines, as it were. Our current policy is pure, unadulterated insanity! The fact that the entire Muslim world may not be at war with us is a moot point, since we don't know just who all the terrorists are; therefore, prudence, common sense and logic should dictate that we err on the side of caution and safety by assuming that all Muslims are our sworn enemies! Only lunatics want to err on the side of political correctness or on the side of assuming unnecessary risks.

If politicians were really serious about protecting Americans and fulfilling their constitutional duty toward us, they would immediately do these five things for starters:

1.) Protect us by sealing off our borders better.

2.) Allow no Muslims into the U.S. by air, slow boat...whatever. None. Nada. Nothing. Cut them off at the pass. Don't allow any behind our lines.

3.) Continue with vigorous screening procedures for all other foreign travelers, most especially those with any stamps on their passports from a Muslim country.

4.) Deport all Muslim non-citizens immediately.

5.) Monitor, scrutinize and infiltrate all Muslim organizations and mosques.

These policies would make in considerably more difficult for terrorists to attack us. And that's what we should be wanting to do. We should want to play the percentages. We should want to put those percentages as much on our side as possible, and quit tinkering around the edges with phony, weak, loophole-filled security measures that only serve to stroke liberals' perverse ideology of political correctness.

Boxcar

[Tom]

Boxcar, you just made more sense on national security than Hillary, Janet, and Barry the Boob all combined for their lifetimes.

[boxcar]

Boxcar, you just made more sense on national security than Hillary, Janet, and Barry the Boob all combined for their lifetimes.

I know. I should be heading up Homeland Security. ;)

Boxcar

[bigmack]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/1_1_10_17_56_30.png

CBS Reports:

The failures that allowed the unsuccessful Christmas Day terrorist attack have marred President Barack Obama’s relaxation schedule in Hawaii, CBS’s Jeff Glor and Chip Reid regretted Thursday night as Reid fretted Obama had “hoped to spend this vacation recharging his batteries, but now he appears to be spending most of it working” and assured viewers Obama is moving fast to protect Americans: “The President has immersed himself in the details of the review and that individuals will be held accountable, but the top priority now is to make sure it doesn't happen again.”

Glor suggested to Reid the workload means “this is not the vacation the President planned, is it?” Reid agreed, seeing a burden on Obama:
It is not, Jeff. He had hoped to spend this vacation recharging his batteries, but now he appears to be spending most of it working. For New Year's Eve, he'll be reviewing nearly a dozen new reports from homeland security agencies, all part of a massive effort to figure out what went wrong.

[Tom]

He had hoped to spend this vacation recharging his batteries, but now he appears to be spending most of it working.

I've got news for you, this simpleton came with batteries not included.:rolleyes:

[bigmack]

Another outstanding Krauthammer column:

Janet Napolitano — former Arizona governor, now overmatched secretary of homeland security — will forever be remembered for having said of the attempt to bring down an airliner over Detroit: "The system worked." The attacker's concerned father had warned U.S. authorities about his son's jihadist tendencies. The would-be bomber paid cash and checked no luggage on a transoceanic flight. He was nonetheless allowed to fly, and would have killed 288 people in the air alone, save for a faulty detonator and quick actions by a few passengers.

Heck of a job, Brownie.

The reason the country is uneasy about the Obama administration's response to this attack is a distinct sense of not just incompetence but incomprehension. From the very beginning, President Obama has relentlessly tried to downplay and deny the nature of the terrorist threat we continue to face.

Napolitano renames terrorism "man-caused disasters." Obama goes abroad and pledges to cleanse America of its post-9/11 counterterrorist sins. Hence, Guantánamo will close, CIA interrogators will face a special prosecutor, and Khalid Sheik Mohammed will bask in a civilian trial in New York — a trifecta of political correctness and image management.

And just to make sure even the dimmest understand, Obama banishes the term "war on terror." It's over — that is, if it ever existed.

Obama may have declared the war over. Unfortunately al-Qaida has not. Which gives new meaning to the term "asymmetric warfare."

And produces linguistic — and logical — oddities that littered Obama's public pronouncements following the Christmas Day attack. In his first statement, Obama referred to Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab as "an isolated extremist." This is the same president who, after the Ford Hood shooting, warned us "against jumping to conclusions" — code for daring to associate Nidal Hasan's mass murder with his Islamist ideology. Yet, with Abdulmutallab, Obama jumped immediately to the conclusion, against all existing evidence, that the bomber acted alone.

More jarring still were Obama's references to the terrorist as a "suspect" who "allegedly tried to ignite an explosive device." You can hear the echo of FDR: "Yesterday, December 7, 1941 — a date which will live in infamy — Japanese naval and air force suspects allegedly bombed Pearl Harbor."

Obama reassured the nation that this "suspect" had been charged. Reassurance? The president should be saying: We have captured an enemy combatant — an illegal combatant under the laws of war: no uniform, direct attack on civilians — and now to prevent future attacks, he is being interrogated regarding information he may have about al-Qaida in Yemen.

Instead, Abdulmutallab is dispatched to some Detroit-area jail and immediately lawyered up. At which point — surprise! — he stops talking....

...The logic is perverse. If we find Abdulmutallab in an al-Qaida training camp in Yemen, where he is merely preparing for a terror attack, we snuff him out with a Predator — no judge, no jury, no qualms. But if we catch him in the United States in the very act of mass murder, he instantly acquires protection not just from execution by drone but even from interrogation...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorialsopinion/2010656131_krauthammer02.html

[hazzardm]

Today is the second worst day of my life after 12-25-09. Today is the day that I realized that my own country is lying to me and all of my fellow Americans. Let me explain.

Ever since I got off of Flight 253 I have been repeating what I saw in US Customs.

Fascinating account.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_kurt_hask.html



Barack Obama : "Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this Presidency

[Tom]

Well, breaking news today.
Obama, in his weekly radio lies, said that the "isolated extremist" was backed by Al Qeda, trained and armed in Yeman, and that Yemen has launched "man made disasters" against us previously.

:confused:

Some said Bush was a day late and a dollar short.
This bozo is a week late and a trillion short.

Hell of a job, Barry.

[andymays]

Democrats' worst nightmare: Terrorism on their watch

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31099.html

Excerpt:

And yet the White House’s response to last week’s attempt to blow up a Northwest Airlines flight to Detroit could rank as one of the low points of the new president’s first year. Over the course of five days, Obama’s Obama’ reaction ranged from low-keyed to reassuring to, finally, a vow to find out what went wrong. The episode was a baffling, unforced error in presidential symbolism, hardly a small part of the presidency, and the moment at which yet another of the old political maxims that Obama had sought to transcend – the Democrats’ vulnerability on national security – reasserted itself.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31099.html#ixzz0bT1tSxkl

[bigmack]

'Breaking News' from MSNBC tonight.

Information of undie bomber withheld INTENTIONALLY by someone in the intllegence community to make this administration look bad. :eek: :eek:

Here's Keith. Stay tuned to MSNBC for breaking news throughout the evening.

fjri7IoTjBs

[tzipi]

If someone actually witheld that information on purpose,they should be locked up for a very long time.

[Tom]

Exploding underpants is not a new concept.
That is exactly the reason why they do not allow Taco Bell in the airports.

[Greyfox]

So the bombing was attempted on December 25.
The President calls a summit to find out what went wrong on January 5.
An 11 day lag?? An 11 day lag?? Mr. Dithers dithers.
Earlier a 3 month lag to respond to General McChrystal for a decision that anyone could have made in a few days. :(

[Robert Goren]

There are things I think Obama could differently (and more) on Terror, But compared to his predecessor, He looks like a democratic judge. Let see, actually going after terrorist where they are at instead of where you know they are not. They actually bombed terrorist camps in Yemen this year. Bush never did that. We had a 9/11 commission , but Bush ignored almost everything they proposed. Bush turned loose the guys behind the Christmas attempt without a trial. At least with a trial they might have been convicted and stayed in jail. Bush/ Cheney and the Right wing republicans, Talk Loudly and Carry a Small Stick. They did next to nothing to make this country safer, but boy they can talk.

[PaceAdvantage]

They did next to nothing to make this country safer...Right...for starters, that's why this guy had to get on a plane in Amsterdam...because Bush/Cheney did nothing here at home...gotcha!

[newtothegame]

There are things I think Obama could differently (and more) on Terror, But compared to his predecessor, He looks like a democratic judge. Let see, actually going after terrorist where they are at instead of where you know they are not. They actually bombed terrorist camps in Yemen this year. Bush never did that. We had a 9/11 commission , but Bush ignored almost everything they proposed. Bush turned loose the guys behind the Christmas attempt without a trial. At least with a trial they might have been convicted and stayed in jail. Bush/ Cheney and the Right wing republicans, Talk Loudly and Carry a Small Stick. They did next to nothing to make this country safer, but boy they can talk.

First bolded statement...is this like bombing a pharmacuetical plant in sudan??? Is that what your referring to??? :lol:

Next to nothing you say??? I bet you would also be one who complains about the wire taps???

[Tom]

Clinton - multiple attacks
Bush - 9-11 then 7 years nothing
Obama - 2 in first year......whoa boy!

[Robert Goren]

7 years - no Bin Laden :bang:

Pretty much says it all

[Tom]

Actually, it says nothing.

[dartman51]

7 years - no Bin Laden :bang:

Pretty much says it all

If you think getting Bin Laden, will stop these people, you are out of your mind. Once he is gone, there will be at least a dozen, ready to take his place. This war against terror, like it or not, will never end. Unless we just throw up our hands and give up. Or do like so many on the LEFT, would like us to do, bend over, bury our collective heads in the sand, and take it up the a$$. Personally, I prefer we fight, with WHATEVER means necessary. The attacks have stepped up because our Pacifier in Chief, chooses to pretend we are NOT engaged in a WAR ON TERROR. Right now the US looks weak, thanks to our PIC and Chief apologist.

[cj's dad]

7 years - no Bin Laden :bang:

Pretty much says it all

There is no tangible proof that he is still alive !!

[Robert Goren]

So you agree with Bush that getting the mastermind behind 9/11 is not important. Well I disagree. I think everytime let some like Bin Laden get away with it, It encourages more to try. Will it stop all of them? No. I do believe if we had gotten Bin Laden, there would be fewer of these terrorist today.

[Robert Goren]

There is no tangible proof that he is still alive !! There is no proof that he is dead and I see no reason to believe that he is.

[boxcar]

There is no proof that he is dead and I see no reason to believe that he is.

There may be no "proof" but the evidence suggests that he probably is.

And you're dead wrong about what kind of impact his death would have on his fellow-jihadists. There would be plenty of whackjobs ready and willing to take his place, if they haven't already. You think he was the only Muslim radical in the world? What about all the Muslim clerics all over the world that spew their venom against the "great Satan" routinely?

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

There may be no "proof" but the evidence suggests that he probably is.

And you're dead wrong about what kind of impact his death would have on his fellow-jihadists. There would be plenty of whackjobs ready and willing to take his place, if they haven't already. You think he was the only Muslim radical in the world? What about all the Muslim clerics all over the world that spew their venom against the "great Satan" routinely?

BoxcarWhat Evidence? Bush apologists have say this for years. Tapes of him keep showing anyway. If one doesn't show up for a couple months, the apologists start the chants allover again.

[boxcar]

What Evidence? Bush apologists have say this for years. Tapes of him keep showing anyway. If one doesn't show up for a couple months, the apologists start the chants allover again.

When was the last one? And how do you know when those tapes were made? And you do know that OBL ain't in the best of health, right? I'm not saying with certainty he's dead, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he is.

Boxcar

[MONEY]

A good way to prevent attacks is to stop Joan Rivers from boarding planes bound for the U.S.A.
http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/joan-rivers-airport-incident-joan-rosenberg-aka-joan-rivers-2551859.html
Personally, I would let Joan Rivers board a plane even if she was wearing a hockey mask and lugging a chain saw.

money

[Robert Goren]

Like Hyman Roth, he has been dying from same heart attack for 20 years.

[boxcar]

Like Hyman Roth, he has been dying from same heart attack for 20 years.

I think it has been pretty well established that OBL has chronic kidney problems.
And probably being a cave-dweller doesn't contribute to good health very much.

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

A good way to prevent attacks is to stop Joan Rivers from boarding planes bound for the U.S.A.
http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/joan-rivers-airport-incident-joan-rosenberg-aka-joan-rivers-2551859.html
Personally, I would let Joan Rivers board a plane even if she was wearing a hockey mask and lugging a chain saw.

money I want to apologize to all of the hockey masks in advance.
When I saw her on Larry King last night I thought she was.

[Trotman]

I think if we really want to stop all this I think we should call Frankie. :ThmbUp:

www.animatronics.org/strangers/strangers.htm

[bigmack]

'Breaking News' from MSNBC tonight.
Information of undie bomber withheld INTENTIONALLY by someone in the intllegence community to make this administration look bad. :eek: :eek:
Here's Keith. Stay tuned to MSNBC for breaking news throughout the evening.
Darn. So far nothing has come from this story from Monday with Olbermann's "Breaking News" :lol:

Now we have a report from the LA Times:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/1_6_10_18_30_12.png

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-naw-airline-terror7-2010jan07,0,2084702.story

You see, this is the extreme left, KO & The LA Times, grasping at straws to deflect blame elsewhere or to give credit to this administration. As if it's a good thing they new about this turd mid-flight.

Most pathetic.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/avatar_1500.gif

[Track Collector]

Darn. So far nothing has come from this story from Monday with Olbermann's "Breaking News" :lol:

Now we have a report from the LA Times:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/1_6_10_18_30_12.png

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-naw-airline-terror7-2010jan07,0,2084702.story

You see, this is the extreme left, KO & The LA Times, grasping at straws to deflect blame elsewhere or to give credit to this administration. As if it's a good thing they new about this turd mid-flight.

Most pathetic.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/avatar_1500.gif

Were they going to question him before or after the bomb went off? :rolleyes:

[bigmack]

Were they going to question him before or after the bomb went off? :rolleyes:
In light of our new & exciting civilian handling of terrorists I believe the policy in effect now is found in Section 4: Paragraph 6.

In the event a known terrorist is en-route on a plane, with a bomb, do not disturb said terrorist if said terrorist is watching an in-flight movie.

[hazzardm]

and please do not interrupt my skiing vacation.....


The top official in charge of analyzing terror threats did not cut short his ski vacation after the underwear bomber nearly blew up an airliner on Christmas Day, the Daily News has learned.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/01/07/2010-01-07_antiterror_chief_took_ski_pass_remained_on_slop es_after_christmas_bomb_attempt.html

[boxcar]

and please do not interrupt my skiing vacation.....


The top official in charge of analyzing terror threats did not cut short his ski vacation after the underwear bomber nearly blew up an airliner on Christmas Day, the Daily News has learned.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/01/07/2010-01-07_antiterror_chief_took_ski_pass_remained_on_slop es_after_christmas_bomb_attempt.html

He was only following his top boss' lead: Delegate, delegate, delegate...

Boxcar

[PaceAdvantage]

I think the left is right about one thing. This country IS less safe because of George W. Bush.

Allow me to explain.

The far-left's psychotic "Bush Derangement Syndrome" has brought them to the point where they won't even look to vigorously defend this country if it appears in some way that doing so might paint them in a "George Bush" type of light.

Hopefully, this won't lead to more attacks, but will lead to Obama being a one term prez.

[Tom]

I am sure his speech today only emboldened more. There was nothing remotely "leadership" in it. Just a clown trying to save face. People are going to die because of this idiot.

[Tom]

Obama has announced new airport security procedures to go into effect immediately.....