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trying2win
12-23-2009, 04:13 PM
I just got the following email from the ADW named LINK2BET, and in my opinion I'd be a fool not to make a deposit there in the time frame allowed:


--------------------------------------------------------

Dear Valued Customer of Link2bet As a high value customer of www.link2bet.com (http://www.link2bet.com/), I would like to make the following offer to you to use our services this Christmas and New Year.


If you deposit funds with us, through any of the deposit mechanisms on the site at www.link2bet.com/pages/deposit/deposit.aspx (http://www.link2bet.com/pages/deposit/deposit.aspx) , we will match the value of your first deposit upto a maximum of $500.


Yes - that means we will match what you put in, upto $500. So if you put in $100, you will get $100, $200 gets $200 and so on upto $500. There's no limit on what you can deposit, but the maximum we will match is $500.


Our new look website allows fast and efficient credit card deposits. In addition for larger sums you can send a Bank Wire. Please let me know if you would prefer to send a Wire, and we will provide details. Deposits can also be made via our Call Centre, details of which are on our website, www.link2bet.com (http://www.link2bet.com/).


Once you have made your first deposit just email myself or info@link2bet.com to have your free money credited to your account.


The offer is valid upto and including Monday 4th January, and is valid for your first deposit only and for one account only per deposit. The free money must be wagered in full before being withdrawn. Otherwise there are no hidden catches.


Good luck and we wish you a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year from all at link2bet.


Regards

trying2win
12-23-2009, 04:29 PM
I"m assuming that this generous matching offer made to me by LINK2BET, is for the customers who already had an account with them before this offer came out. They didn't specify in the email if the offer was made to only customers who bet a certain minimum amount during the current year, or any amount. I don't know if this offer would be extended to new customers though. You'd have to send them an email to find out.

It helps to negotiate the amount of rebate you get with LINK2BET.COM, otherwise potential new customers might just get lumped in with the lowest rate they generally pay out. If you're not happy with the rebate they offer, ask to speak to the CEO of the company to see what he says.


T2W

RichieP
12-23-2009, 04:59 PM
Good stuff and thanks for the heads up T2W! :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

Merry Christmas :)

banacek
12-23-2009, 05:16 PM
Seems like a good deal. I was checking out the web site. They do give a rather odd overview of thoroughbred racing:

"Thoroughbred horse racing is run on oval shaped tracks that are either grass or dirt based. The horses run over a range of distances from 1 mile to 1.75 miles. There are 3 main thoroughbred horse race types, with horses of all ages and genders participating. In Thoroughbred horse racing each horse (jockey) wears a distinctive coloured racing jacket so it can be easily identified."

Ian Meyers
12-23-2009, 05:56 PM
It helps to negotiate the amount of rebate you get with LINK2BET.COM, otherwise potential new customers might just get lumped in with the lowest rate they generally pay out. If you're not happy with the rebate they offer, ask to speak to the CEO of the company to see what he says.

T2W

Their CEO is a really good guy, easy to talk to and has a great deal of experience in the gambling business. :)

highrider
12-23-2009, 06:03 PM
Is link2bet regulated by the U.S Gov..Anybody know? :)

Found the location..Isle of Man..Would never use them..Offshores are for folks that are evading taxes..Learned my lesson the hard way..No Thanks

Robert Goren
12-23-2009, 06:43 PM
Seems like a good deal. I was checking out the web site. They do give a rather odd overview of thoroughbred racing:

"Thoroughbred horse racing is run on oval shaped tracks that are either grass or dirt based. The horses run over a range of distances from 1 mile to 1.75 miles. There are 3 main thoroughbred horse race types, with horses of all ages and genders participating. In Thoroughbred horse racing each horse (jockey) wears a distinctive coloured racing jacket so it can be easily identified." To say the least!

OTM Al
12-23-2009, 07:16 PM
If you are betting off shore, you are likely a contributor to the decline of racing. Ask the company how much of their take is going to the tracks. ADWs are parasites which are able to exist only because how screwed up the laws and regs on takeout are, but at least the onshore legal ones are paying a little bit to the tracks.

trying2win
12-23-2009, 09:10 PM
Their CEO is a really good guy, easy to talk to and has a great deal of experience in the gambling business. :)

Ian:

I agree with your comments here about the CEO of LINK2BET. Plus, the CEO has gone the extra mile to do me some favors.. In other words, this CEO has a lot of the same attributes that you have. :ThmbUp:


T2W

PaceAdvantage
12-24-2009, 04:13 AM
If you are betting off shore, you are likely a contributor to the decline of racing. Ask the company how much of their take is going to the tracks. ADWs are parasites which are able to exist only because how screwed up the laws and regs on takeout are, but at least the onshore legal ones are paying a little bit to the tracks.As far as I know, Link2Bet sends their wagers into the host track's pools, or at least that was what I was told.

There are pari-mutuel off-shore operations, and Link2Bet is one of them...if anyone has a different take on this, I'd be happy to hear it...

rrbauer
12-24-2009, 04:44 AM
Is link2bet regulated by the U.S Gov..Anybody know? :)

Found the location..Isle of Man..Would never use them..Offshores are for folks that are evading taxes..Learned my lesson the hard way..No Thanks

Don't let your ignorance get in the way of finding the facts now that you've found the location.

lamboguy
12-24-2009, 06:43 AM
As far as I know, Link2Bet sends their wagers into the host track's pools, or at least that was what I was told.

There are pari-mutuel off-shore operations, and Link2Bet is one of them...if anyone has a different take on this, I'd be happy to hear it...i called them, they told me they in fact do go back to the track. i asked them about this promotion of put up $500 and get $500 added, they told me there was no such promotion though. i would have gone for that deal. maybe there is one, butthe guy on the phone didn't know of it.

OTM Al
12-24-2009, 07:36 AM
As far as I know, Link2Bet sends their wagers into the host track's pools, or at least that was what I was told.

There are pari-mutuel off-shore operations, and Link2Bet is one of them...if anyone has a different take on this, I'd be happy to hear it...

That is better at least. To paraphrase Bogart in Casablanca, they are still a parasite like almost all ADWs, but at least they are a cut rate one....

cj
12-24-2009, 09:43 AM
If you are betting off shore, you are likely a contributor to the decline of racing. Ask the company how much of their take is going to the tracks. ADWs are parasites which are able to exist only because how screwed up the laws and regs on takeout are, but at least the onshore legal ones are paying a little bit to the tracks.

Wagering offshore is not illegal.

There are definitely some negatives to playing offshore. However, since tracks like to try to pretend there is no offshore betting, they make no effort to compete and lose the business. The tracks obviously can compete if they want to do so. They offer rebates to big bettors. But it seems you think smaller type bettors shouldn't be entitled to the same type of reduction.

Blaming the customer as part of the decline of racing is comical. Why should bettors care about a sport that shows nothing but disdain for its customers?

Ian Meyers
12-24-2009, 09:48 AM
As far as I know, Link2Bet sends their wagers into the host track's pools, or at least that was what I was told.

There are pari-mutuel off-shore operations, and Link2Bet is one of them...if anyone has a different take on this, I'd be happy to hear it...

They are 100% legal, 100% pari-mutuel. All of their wagers are co-mingled through Amtote.

cj
12-24-2009, 10:07 AM
They are 100% legal, 100% pari-mutuel. All of their wagers are co-mingled through Amtote.

I do realize this particular company is parimutuel. I just don't get why Al is so against ADWs. I understand the off shore thing, though I don't agree you should blame the customer, but not the ADW hate.

I have no reason to believe the tracks could do a good job running an ADW. At least with those in place, the player has a chance at some relief. Look at Tracknet currently. They are fighting with other tracks and ADWs to try to recover some of the money they pay out. Does anybody think that is good for the game? It sucks, and if you believe otherwise you are in fantasy land.

Sure, they can keep some money and maybe raise purses a little and help the horsemen. Why should I give a shit? Increasing purses hasn't really helped the bettor in any way. What I know is that the less that is returned to bettors, the less is going to be bet. It is nothing but a downward spiral.

So before pointing the finger at alleged parasites, maybe Al should be looking at the true dumbasses that enabled them in the first place and refuse to show any foresight to help the game.

Ian Meyers
12-24-2009, 11:35 AM
Let's be realistic, how many of us have the time to go a track to bet? Most of us have jobs, families, children, other commitments, etc. I know all of those are the case for CJ and many others of my friends that bet regularly. It's just the reality of the 21st century and its not going to change. There are tracks that survive ONLY because of simulcasting and ADWs. How many can/will trek to Turfway on a cold Thursday night in February to bet on live racing? How about a Tuesday afternoon at Thistledown? ADWs have opened up wagering opportunities to many of us who would give up the game otherwise. We can place a few bets in the morning on Hawthorne before leaving for work or maybe handicap a couple of races at Charles Town before putting the kids to bed for the night. All racetracks can't be Saratoga or Del Mar in August or Churchill Downs on the first Saturday in May. Many of them are Cicero, ILL in December or Florence, KY in March.

Happy Holidays to all. Wishing the industry a more prosperous 2010.

slew101
12-24-2009, 11:43 AM
I believe unless the operations are in the U.S., it would technically be illegal to wager offshore in this case, according to the U.S. government. Now that doesn't mean the U.S.'s position would be backed up in court, it wouldn't. But that is what they say.

As for the big promotion, only existing customers would get a deal like that. Otherwise, bonus hounds would swamp them, play the rollover requirement, and withdraw. They want people who have wagered a lot of money with them over the years to get these bonuses.

[QUOTE=cj]Wagering offshore is not illegal.

slew101
12-24-2009, 11:48 AM
The offshore shops offer bonuses and excellent rebates for horse betting. The down side, among a few, is it's tough to get the money out without hefty fees, and many shops limit payouts on trifectas and pick 3 and 4s, so make sure you read the fine print. A big trifecta score could be capped.

[QUOTE=cj]I do realize this particular company is parimutuel. I just don't get why Al is so against ADWs. I understand the off shore thing, though I don't agree you should blame the customer, but not the ADW hate.

OTM Al
12-24-2009, 12:00 PM
Wagering offshore is not illegal.

There are definitely some negatives to playing offshore. However, since tracks like to try to pretend there is no offshore betting, they make no effort to compete and lose the business. The tracks obviously can compete if they want to do so. They offer rebates to big bettors. But it seems you think smaller type bettors shouldn't be entitled to the same type of reduction.

Blaming the customer as part of the decline of racing is comical. Why should bettors care about a sport that shows nothing but disdain for its customers?

Please. You know better than that.

Going to these providers is just like going to Walmart. Its convenient and cheap, but no one ever considers the long run effects of his actions when all you have left is Walmart. Tracks screwed up when they lost control of these things to be sure. There's enough blame to go all the way around and if players want their voices heard, then they also need to step up and own their faults as well.

cj
12-24-2009, 12:09 PM
I believe unless the operations are in the U.S., it would technically be illegal to wager offshore in this case, according to the U.S. government. Now that doesn't mean the U.S.'s position would be backed up in court, it wouldn't. But that is what they say.

As for the big promotion, only existing customers would get a deal like that. Otherwise, bonus hounds would swamp them, play the rollover requirement, and withdraw. They want people who have wagered a lot of money with them over the years to get these bonuses.



There are no federal laws against a person wagering on the internet. A few states do have them, but not many.

OTM Al
12-24-2009, 12:11 PM
The offshore shops offer bonuses and excellent rebates for horse betting. The down side, among a few, is it's tough to get the money out without hefty fees, and many shops limit payouts on trifectas and pick 3 and 4s, so make sure you read the fine print. A big trifecta score could be capped.

[QUOTE=cj]I do realize this particular company is parimutuel. I just don't get why Al is so against ADWs. I understand the off shore thing, though I don't agree you should blame the customer, but not the ADW hate.

I'm not against ADWs per se, but am against the way they operate in the current climate and I am especially against offshore books that contribute nothing to the product.

ADWs and OTBs need to be arms of the tracks themselves, not independant entities. Were that true, I think players would get many of their wishes come true, including the viability of lowered takeout, which is not viable right now due to ADW structure. As it is, millions are being siphoned out of the industry every day. Wonder why they aren't able to fix things up and give better perks?

Do I blame people for seeking out the best seeming deal for themselves? Of course not. Human nature. Just realize that in the end, nothing is free. And Honestly I have 3 accounts. 2 are owned by track entities and one is not and I have it only because of a few international tracks it takes that the other 2 don't. I'd rather not have it, but unfortunately because how screwed up it all is, its my only option for those tracks.

cj
12-24-2009, 12:11 PM
Please. You know better than that.

Going to these providers is just like going to Walmart. Its convenient and cheap, but no one ever considers the long run effects of his actions when all you have left is Walmart. Tracks screwed up when they lost control of these things to be sure. There's enough blame to go all the way around and if players want their voices heard, then they also need to step up and own their faults as well.

No other business blames the customers for lost business. You compete, or you lose. No other business treats customers as poorly as racing does. What exactly do I know better about?

Horseplayersbet.com
12-24-2009, 12:42 PM
I'm not against ADWs per se, but am against the way they operate in the current climate and I am especially against offshore books that contribute nothing to the product.

ADWs and OTBs need to be arms of the tracks themselves, not independant entities. Were that true, I think players would get many of their wishes come true, including the viability of lowered takeout, which is not viable right now due to ADW structure. As it is, millions are being siphoned out of the industry every day. Wonder why they aren't able to fix things up and give better perks?

Do I blame people for seeking out the best seeming deal for themselves? Of course not. Human nature. Just realize that in the end, nothing is free. And Honestly I have 3 accounts. 2 are owned by track entities and one is not and I have it only because of a few international tracks it takes that the other 2 don't. I'd rather not have it, but unfortunately because how screwed up it all is, its my only option for those tracks.
It is true in Canada (HPI is an ADW owned by Woodbine and it has a qasi monopoly on Canadians who want to bet into US pools), and what does Woodbine do, they ramp up triactor takeouts to 25% if a track offers a triactor of less than 25%.
And their rewards program is crap, driving players away to Betfair and other offshore entities.

OTM Al
12-24-2009, 12:50 PM
No other business blames the customers for lost business. You compete, or you lose. No other business treats customers as poorly as racing does. What exactly do I know better about?

Then I'll have to ask you the same question I do everyone that goes off on this rant. Why if it is such terrible treatment do you devote so much of your time and life to it? If it was so bad, why doesn't a smart guy like yourself go do something else with your time?

I know one sports related business right now that treats its customers like absolute crap and all they do is come back for more and that is called the NFL, so clearly people don't really care about such things.

cj
12-24-2009, 01:04 PM
Then I'll have to ask you the same question I do everyone that goes off on this rant. Why if it is such terrible treatment do you devote so much of your time and life to it? If it was so bad, why doesn't a smart guy like yourself go do something else with your time?

I know one sports related business right now that treats its customers like absolute crap and all they do is come back for more and that is called the NFL, so clearly people don't really care about such things.

Easy one, I still make some money. I enjoy the challenge. I also sell a program that many seem to enjoy. That doesn't mean I don't want the game to be better. If the game was costing me money, I certainly would spend my time in other ways.

For the record, I haven't bet offshore since I lived in Belgium, and then it was a necessity. While we are on the record, at least come clean and say there is some connection for you to support track management. Specifics aren't necessary.

You are ripping on ADWs as parasites. However, without them, there would be no game at all these days. Few go to the track, and even fewer go to off track betting sites. The ones I have been in are like visiting a funeral home. If ADWs were to go away, people are not going to come flocking back to the OTB or the track like lost sheep looking for a home.

If you think there is fighting now between tracks and ADWs over money, imagine if the tracks each ran there own ADW and had to fight with each other over revenue splits. It would be pure chaos and you'd need about 27 accounts to bet all the tracks. Track management has proven so inept over the years and I don't see how anyone could have any faith in any of the organizations being able to run a national ADW.

NYRA has their own ADW, correct? How are they helping their bettors? How is the product working for them? Didn't I read recently they will be out of money by May because they don't have slots?

DeanT
12-24-2009, 01:18 PM
[QUOTE=slew101]
ADWs and OTBs need to be arms of the tracks themselves, not independant entities. Were that true, I think players would get many of their wishes come true, including the viability of lowered takeout, which is not viable right now due to ADW structure.

If tracks control ADW's the only place takeout is going is up.

banacek
12-24-2009, 01:18 PM
I agree that the horseplayers are treated like crap. But 30 years ago, I spent $15-$20 just to get in the gate at the track.... gas, parking, admission, crappy food, racing form. Now I pay $1 for a BRIS download. So some things are a lot better.

I do think bringing down the take is key to the survival of the sport. I know that I'll be betting more when that happens. And if bringing down the take means rebates ..fine. But let's get them out in the open. In the old Pinnacle days, I got 7%..it was front and center on their website. So many ADWs..good ones too..seem to keep the rebate info secret. They want to match my first $100. Sign and up and we'll see what we can give you. Scrap that..I don't want negotiation and teaser deals, I want a fair deal upfront. Give me a decent rebate, post the conditions on the website and you'll get my business..all of it and for the long-term.

OTM Al
12-24-2009, 01:57 PM
Easy one, I still make some money. I enjoy the challenge. I also sell a program that many seem to enjoy. That doesn't mean I don't want the game to be better. If the game was costing me money, I certainly would spend my time in other ways.

For the record, I haven't bet offshore since I lived in Belgium, and then it was a necessity. While we are on the record, at least come clean and say there is some connection for you to support track management. Specifics aren't necessary.

You are ripping on ADWs as parasites. However, without them, there would be no game at all these days. Few go to the track, and even fewer go to off track betting sites. The ones I have been in are like visiting a funeral home. If ADWs were to go away, people are not going to come flocking back to the OTB or the track like lost sheep looking for a home.

If you think there is fighting now between tracks and ADWs over money, imagine if the tracks each ran there own ADW and had to fight with each other over revenue splits. It would be pure chaos and you'd need about 27 accounts to bet all the tracks. Track management has proven so inept over the years and I don't see how anyone could have any faith in any of the organizations being able to run a national ADW.

NYRA has their own ADW, correct? How are they helping their bettors? How is the product working for them? Didn't I read recently they will be out of money by May because they don't have slots?

Yes I do have some connection though I must say before I did I was treated quite well everytime I went out to the track as well so frankly I've never had a bad opinion of what they do. And frankly I've been to several tracks across the country and have been quite happy with all my visits. Maybe this makes me a rarity, but I am being honest here about this. I even had a mutual supervisor go well out of his way to help me for an $80 voucher I lost on my own fault on BC day at Belmont in 2005. If that's not good service, I don't knwo what is. Maybe its because I treated him with a little respect and said please and thank you, which as someone who is at the track quite a bit, I can guarantee you aren't words that are often used.

NYRA's ADW is quite nice given what they have to work with. They have the best handheld app as well of the 3 I have (Twin Spires kinda works on the handheld and TVG doesn't have one at all, but then that's the one I have just to pick up a few international tracks so no big deal there). On the desktop, Twin Spires is better, but that is only because they are allowed to show video, which NYRA's is not. The NYRA mess could be completely fixed with OTBs, but I'm staying out of that discussion.

So what if they all wanted to have their own? I would believe that several would go together on them regionally, so I don't think it would be like that, but it seems that tracks did pretty good sharing their signals between them before ADWs, so I think they could work this out. Might not be easy, but I think it could happen, or shall I say, could have, because it's too late. And at least then the tracks would have been getting the money, not 3rd parties. Yes, as I said, ADWs are needed, but they need to be aligned with the product itself.

As it is now, if tracks lower takeout, they take the full brunt of the hit while still being obligated to "pay" the ADW the same cut. Sure handle goes up with a drop in takeout, but it doesn't go up enough to compensate the track, it just makes the ADW richer. The current state of the ADW is helping to keep take high. Tracks would rather get a small % of something rather nothing when an ADW drops them because there isn't enough wiggleroom left for them to get a big enough cut of the take if it is lowered. They exist solely because of the level of the take.

So tell me how all the non-track aligned ADWs are not paracites in the true sense of the word? And in the end, not only to the tracks but to us as well. We are paying through the nose to sit on our butts and bet on line and no one seems to get this.

Ian Meyers
12-24-2009, 02:06 PM
As it is now, if tracks lower takeout, they take the full brunt of the hit while still being obligated to "pay" the ADW the same cut. Sure handle goes up with a drop in takeout, but it doesn't go up enough to compensate the track, it just makes the ADW richer.

What does that mean? If Wahoo Downs cuts their exacta takeout from 20% to 17% the ADW gives up 3 points of revenue as well. It's not the tracks that pay the ADWs, it's the other way around for the right to co-mingle wagers. In most instance the track does not reduce their signal fee, so the ADW makes 3 pts less on the wager(as does the track from on-site wagers). That's the difference between pari-mutuel ADWs and bookmakers. The bookmakers still take the wagers but without an agreement with the track they don't have any of the costs (host fees, tote fees, taxes, etc.) or the benefits of co-mingling (no exposure on the bets).

OTM Al
12-24-2009, 02:40 PM
What does that mean? If Wahoo Downs cuts their exacta takeout from 20% to 17% the ADW gives up 3 points of revenue as well. It's not the tracks that pay the ADWs, it's the other way around for the right to co-mingle wagers. In most instance the track does not reduce their signal fee, so the ADW makes 3 pts less on the wager(as does the track from on-site wagers). That's the difference between pari-mutuel ADWs and bookmakers. The bookmakers still take the wagers but without an agreement with the track they don't have any of the costs (host fees, tote fees, taxes, etc.) or the benefits of co-mingling (no exposure on the bets).

Not my understanding about the contracts I've read about. I will say that if I have misunderstood, then everything regarding this part of the argument is completely wrong and its possible that I'm confusing it with the OTB situation. So if that's the case then I wear the dunce cap deservedly. It still doesn't change the fact that money is being siphoned off by a 3rd party, but let's leave that out.

The contacts I've read about were explained in a simplistic way. Assume the take is 15%. Contract specifies the ADW gets 10 points of that take. Track lowers the total take, then they have dropped from 5 points to 4. Say 90% of the business was done off track. You'd need about an 18% increase in total handle to offset the loss of that point. That ain't gonna happen.

Ian Meyers
12-24-2009, 03:26 PM
Not my understanding about the contracts I've read about. I will say that if I have misunderstood, then everything regarding this part of the argument is completely wrong and its possible that I'm confusing it with the OTB situation. So if that's the case then I wear the dunce cap deservedly. It still doesn't change the fact that money is being siphoned off by a 3rd party, but let's leave that out.

The contacts I've read about were explained in a simplistic way. Assume the take is 15%. Contract specifies the ADW gets 10 points of that take. Track lowers the total take, then they have dropped from 5 points to 4. Say 90% of the business was done off track. You'd need about an 18% increase in total handle to offset the loss of that point. That ain't gonna happen.

There are a lot of things I know nothing about; ballet, French cooking, women... :lol:. Simulcasting isn't one of them. I have seen 100 or more simulcast contracts. I have some in front of me right now. The contract specifies what the guest (ADW) receives in the way of takeout and what the host (track) receives from the guest as a simulcast fee. They are all written that way.

The fee the guest pays the host is unaffected in the event of a reduction (or an increase) in takeout unless the host changes that fee. Typically all host fees are re-negotiated at the end of a meet.

No dunce cap necessary. It's not an area that is especially well understood.

cj
12-24-2009, 04:06 PM
Yes I do have some connection though I must say before I did I was treated quite well everytime I went out to the track as well so frankly I've never had a bad opinion of what they do. And frankly I've been to several tracks across the country and have been quite happy with all my visits. Maybe this makes me a rarity, but I am being honest here about this. I even had a mutual supervisor go well out of his way to help me for an $80 voucher I lost on my own fault on BC day at Belmont in 2005. If that's not good service, I don't knwo what is. Maybe its because I treated him with a little respect and said please and thank you, which as someone who is at the track quite a bit, I can guarantee you aren't words that are often used.

...

I appreciate that. Outside of heckling a bad ride a couple times, I've never been anything less than courteous to anyone at the track and have usually been treated pretty well. This, however, isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about he we are completely disregarded when it comes to takeout raises, simulcast disputes, signal wars, crappy race cards, or even posting scratches in a timely manner. Almost everyone will be polite when dealing with a customer face to face. It is how you treat them when they aren't looking that shows the true colors.

I'm not one to proclaim that every member of the various track management groups is an idiot. There are certainly some very smart people, a lot smarter than I am. What I see though are people struggling to survive instead of showing some foresight to improve the product. Until that happens, ADWs are the least of the problems this sport is facing.

Unome
12-26-2009, 05:36 PM
As far as I know, Link2Bet sends their wagers into the host track's pools, or at least that was what I was told.

There are pari-mutuel off-shore operations, and Link2Bet is one of them...if anyone has a different take on this, I'd be happy to hear it...

Link2Bet has been around for a long time, they use to be called EuroOffTrack but changed their name after they got caught up with the mess with IRG and the others. They use the same software as USOffTrack/PayDog.

They are associated with BetInternet which was founded by the person who now owns Racing2Day.

They are 100% legit and have a very good track record.