Turn Time in sprints

[Backstretch Pirate]

What turn of foot would you people consider to be a powerful move on the turn?
Sub 23? I know it depends on the track and surface, but I'm looking for something that might be a powerful indicator in the horse's next start.

Thanks

[Robert Fischer]

What turn of foot would you people consider to be a powerful move on the turn?
Sub 23? I know it depends on the track and surface, but I'm looking for something that might be a powerful indicator in the horse's next start.

Thanks

good final quarter times will vary from that specific track and distance and condition.

i haven't been playing Calder yet this year, but in the past they have been a good example of a dirt track that is more tiring and why you can't name an arbitrary number for all tracks.

[fmolf]

I like to compare a horses turn time from its previous few races to help determine if the horse is improving or declining on form.I also think acceleration in the second fraction is just as important as actual time.Especially if horses has a much faster 2nd fraction than first,and first was not exceptionally slow.

[fast4522]

Turn time is like % M (most effective 1 deep), two back it can be a month ago, how did you feel a month ago?

[JeremyJet]

What turn of foot would you people consider to be a powerful move on the turn?
Sub 23? I know it depends on the track and surface, but I'm looking for something that might be a powerful indicator in the horse's next start.

Thanks

It depends on what class of horse you're talking about. The par for a $10,000 claimer would be 23.25 [85 Beyer]. 23 flat would be a 96 Beyer. 22.75 would be a 107 Beyer.

Regards,

JeremyJet

[fmolf]

It depends on what class of horse you're talking about. The par for a $10,000 claimer would be 23.25 [85 Beyer]. 23 flat would be a 96 Beyer. 22.75 would be a 107 Beyer.

Regards,

JeremyJet
If i see a horse with improving turn times whose pace numbers for the other two fractions stay the same.This for me is a very powerful indicator of an impending good race.I usually make a bet if the odds are generous.Ido believe races a month or longer are relevant to todays race because they can show that a horse is improving.

[Fingal]

How was it accomplished ? Was it a front running performance without being pressed or was some ground made up ? In the race in question, was the rider urging his mount or sitting chilly & the horse just cruised & made up ground on it's own ? In today's race, what kind of competion is there ? Are there several who have what could be considered stand out turn time efforts if they individualy faced lesser competition ? Are those several going to cancel each other out ?
It's all about perspective combined with other factors, there is no such thing as a " pure " number.

A powerful indicator ? For me it's the horse that has done something they've never exhibited before, aka the plodder who shows a burst of new found speed, or conversly the speedball that usualy spits the bit in the stretch that now drops back in the race but makes a sustained close.

[46zilzal]

RELATIVITY: each track is different

[fmolf]

If a horse accelerates (increasing turn time from previous races)in the second fraction this is almost always a sign of a horse rounding into form.Irregardless of whether this horse was gaining ground or not.the fact that his turn time was faster is the key.So long as his other fractions were not proportionately decreasing.The second fraction will often be used by trainers as the fraction to race them into shape as the horse is already warm and needs to have a run where acceleration is the key.The jockey then runs the third fraction evenly in the same speed the horse normally runs to help with stamina building.

[46zilzal]

The jockey then runs the third fraction evenly in the same speed the horse normally runs to help with stamina building.
Stamina, IF IT CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED, take a heck of a lot more than that phsyiologically.

[fmolf]

Stamina, IF IT CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED, take a heck of a lot more than that phsyiologically.
this is accomplished in addition to workouts. Increased speed in any fraction when other fractions remain the same is indicative of a horse rounding into top form and building its stamina.Thats all i said.Your reading too deep into this.

[46zilzal]

this is accomplished in addition to workouts. Increased speed in any fraction when other fractions remain the same is indicative of a horse rounding into top form and building its stamina.
I take it YOU don't hang out AT THE TRACK in the mornings very often or back in the barns.

[fmolf]

I take it YOU don't hang out AT THE TRACK in the mornings very often or back in the barns.
are you saying that trainers do not use races to bring horses up to their peak as it relates to form?Are you saying that an increase in speed during one fraction of a race when the other fractions remain the same is inconsequential?Are you saying workouts are more important than racing as far as conditioning goes?Please explain your point to me as i am new to this game only having been following it for 35 yrs...i know this pales in comparison to your experience gambling and working with the equine athletes themselves,so please feel free to enlighten us as we all know you are on the cutting edge of all industry trends and are almost a geneolical expert when it comes to breeding and the likes!

[Robert Goren]

My experience with increase speed in turn times that most of the time it is an Illusion. There are many things can cause an increase in turn times. Track condition, bad rides by jockeys and probably the most frequent incorrect charts. JMO