Bribes for Obama Care or Politics as Usual?

[andymays]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/12/a-whodunit-the-100-million-mystery-hospital.html

Excerpt:

ABC News' Z. Byron Wolf reports:

The health reform Christmas gifts for Sens. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana and Ben Nelson of Nebraska are well known . But somewhere out there is another good little legislator who got funding for a hospital in their state.

But which senator? Which hospital? It is a health care whodunit.

Somewhere out there in the United States is a “Health Care Facility” “at a public research university in the United States that contains a State’s sole public academic medical and dental school.”

We know this because in the bill Democrats released Saturday morning is a $100,000,000 check for that hospital (presumably there is only one).
Republicans poring over the bill Democrats released Saturday found this on page 328:

“(a) APPROPRIATION.—There are authorized to be appropriated, and there are appropriated to the Department of Health and Human Services, $100,000,000 for fiscal year 2010, to remain available for obligation until September 30, 2011, to be used for debt service on, or direct construction or renovation of, a health care facility that provides research, inpatient tertiary care, or outpatient clinical services. Such facility shall be affiliated with an academic health center at a public research university in the United States that contains a State’s sole public academic medical and dental school.” (Manager’s Amendment To H.R. 3590, Pg. 328)

We have asked for some clarification from Democrats.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/12/a-whodunit-the-100-million-mystery-hospital.html

[Tom]

All the little whores got their stockings stuffed last night.
America now knows who the sellouts are. Who the enemies are.
Time to act.

[andymays]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2009/12/democrats_risk_another_jackson_1.html

Excerpt:

Make no mistake. This bill is so unpopular because it has all the characteristics that most Americans find so noxious about Washington.

It stinks of politics. Why is there such a rush to pass this bill now? It's because the President of the United States recognizes that it is hurting his numbers, and he wants it off the agenda. It might not be ready to be passed. In fact, it's obviously not ready! Yet that doesn't matter. The President wants this out of the way by his State of the Union Address. This is nakedly self-interested political calculation by the President - nothing more and nothing less.

What makes this all the more perversely political is that the bill's benefits do not kick in for years. Why? Politics again! Democrats wish to claim that the bill reduces the deficit, so they collect ten years worth of revenue but only pay five years worth of benefits.

[Overlay]

But which senator? Which hospital? It is a health care whodunit.

According to this story, it's Mr. Dodd of Connecticut:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34498942/ns/politics-health_care_reform/?GT1=43001

"And Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., who faces a difficult re-election, inserted a $100 million item for construction of a university hospital that his spokesman said he hopes to claim for the University of Connecticut."

[andymays]

According to this story, it's Mr. Dodd of Connecticut:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34498942/ns/politics-health_care_reform/?GT1=43001

"And Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., who faces a difficult re-election, inserted a $100 million item for construction of a university hospital that his spokesman said he hopes to claim for the University of Connecticut."


That figures! :rolleyes:

[Tom]

If he gets it, maybe they can surgically remove his head from his arse.
Dodd is a disgrace to America.

[prospector]

All the little whores got their stockings stuffed last night.
America now knows who the sellouts are. Who the enemies are.
Time to act.
bullets or ballots
this country was founded by bullets...if 2010 doesn't work, maybe its time for bullets again..congress doesn't listen..why? because they know we the people forget easily..

[Tom]

Bullets tend to improve their memories.
Ballots are a waste of time.

[Quagmire]

Are the keyboard commandos gearing up for a tet offensive? :lol:

[skate]

Along with the press (Media), they will CONTINUE to hide "the facts". Who knows what is in the bill?


Ten years from now, The F'ers will "blame the previous administration".

[Murph]

Are the keyboard commandos gearing up for a tet offensive? :lol:Clearly, you have NO idea.

[lsbets]

Wouldn't a bribe imply they are using are using their own money? Since they are using our money, isn't it robbery?

[ezrabrooks]

Article 1-Section 8 of the Constitution says that Congress shall have the
power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, and provide for
the Defense and Common Welfare, but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be
uniform throughout the United States. So with part of the burden of Medicare different as to certain States, how does Congress get around the 'uniform throughout the US"?

[johnhannibalsmith]

Stop reading the Constitution!!!... I think that labels you a domestic terrorist in 2009!!!

:p

[boxcar]

Article 1-Section 8 of the Constitution says that Congress shall have the
power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, and provide for
the Defense and Common Welfare, but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be
uniform throughout the United States. So with part of the burden of Medicare different as to certain States, how does Congress get around the 'uniform throughout the US"?

Why would thugs, thieves, liars and hypocrites suddenly care about what the Constitution says?

Boxcar

[exactaplayer]

Word I hear is this bill is unconstitutional and will be thrown out as written. If the republicans hadn't made this a political thing, perhaps we could have gotten a bi-partisan bill that is constitutional.
The party of NO were more interested in beating Obama then doing anything positive in regards to health care reform.

[johnhannibalsmith]

What did Republicans have to do with the majority stringing together a bill that lacks Constitutionality around every corner of the proposal?

[boxcar]

Word I hear is this bill is unconstitutional and will be thrown out as written. If the republicans hadn't made this a political thing, perhaps we could have gotten a bi-partisan bill that is constitutional.
The party of NO were more interested in beating Obama then doing anything positive in regards to health care reform.

Wrong! The repugs were anti-Yes-To-Socialism. For once in their life the Repugs actually took a stand for something. Not even Snowe voted for the bill, which I find to be very surprising.

For your info, the Republicans presented many bills with free market solutions but because they are the minority, the bills were killed immediately. The fascist-oriented Dems wanted nothing short of a government takeover of the medical and insurance industries. Hopefully, the Republicans will find a way to repeal this monstrosity either in 2010 or 2012. This will definitely be a campaign issue. Count on it.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

What did Republicans have to do with the majority stringing together a bill that lacks Constitutionality around every corner of the proposal?

EP has a real problem connecting dots. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[johnhannibalsmith]

I just didn't understand the implication that Democrats are incapable of crafting legislation without Repub help that falls within the parameters of Constitutionality - at least not from EP - so I figured that I must be missing his point. :confused:

[prospector]

Wouldn't a bribe imply they are using are using their own money? Since they are using our money, isn't it robbery?
barry madoff is a saint compared to these guys..
we have the best congress that money can buy...

[prospector]

Are the keyboard commandos gearing up for a tet offensive? :lol:
"keyboard"? you have no idea of how much talent is out there...i trained hundred's of men in the Marine Force Recon who could break in and be standing next to your bed when you wake up...i'll bet from what i know of these men a good 75% could still perform..you have no clue what they can do..

[exactaplayer]

I just didn't understand the implication that Democrats are incapable of crafting legislation without Repub help that falls within the parameters of Constitutionality - at least not from EP - so I figured that I must be missing his point. :confused:
No, the fact that the republicans made it a political thing instead of a health care reform thing. The Dems were going to pass anything at all (for political purposes). This bill as it is written in the Senate sucks. It will need much revision if it expects to survive.

[Track Collector]

No, the fact that the republicans made it a political thing instead of a health care reform thing. The Dems were going to pass anything at all (for political purposes). This bill as it is written in the Senate sucks. It will need much revision if it expects to survive.

Perhaps the Republicans were actually listening to those whom they represent.

[exactaplayer]

Perhaps the Republicans were actually listening to those whom they represent.
You mean the Insurance companies ? Or just the corporate big wigs in general ?
The whole senate was listening to these dudes not just the republicans.

[johnhannibalsmith]

No, the fact that the republicans made it a political thing instead of a health care reform thing. The Dems were going to pass anything at all (for political purposes). This bill as it is written in the Senate sucks. It will need much revision if it expects to survive.

I'm not going to argue that the notion of health care reform has been largely a political battle... but I'm failing to grasp how it was one-sidedly so....

A public option was political by its very nature, abortion funding is obviously going to create political waves, and a public mandate through tax-code enforcement is NOTHING but bad politics....

This was the bill from the word go - the basic tenets of a demo-health care bill. It has been political every step of the way, with or without Republican obstruction or liberal civil war.

When you expect governement to create your utopia for you, what you receive back is politics.

[HUSKER55]

Ya know boys and girls, we had better government when everyone packed a gun and used it.


I say it is time to act, repeal all guns laws and put the fear of god into DC.

two or three is all it would take to fold that house of cards.

[boxcar]

You mean the Insurance companies ? Or just the corporate big wigs in general ?
The whole senate was listening to these dudes not just the republicans.

Tell me, EP, who are the "Insurance companies" and "corporate bigwigs" more pleased with at the moment: The Dems or the Republicans?

Boxcar

[NJ Stinks]

Bernie Sanders is a great American. For about the same amount of money that one month in Iraq has cost us for each of the last 81 months, this is what we get right here in the USA:

Release: Primary Health, Dental Care for 25 Million More Americans



December 19, 2009

$10 Billion More for Community Health Centers will Revolutionize Care

WASHINGTON, December 19 – A $10 billion investment in community health centers, expected to go to $14 billion when Congress completes work on health care reform legislation, was included in a final series of changes to the Senate bill unveiled today.

The provision, which would provide primary care for 25 million more Americans, was requested by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.).

He said the additional resources will help bring about a revolution in primary health care in America and create new or expanded health centers in an additional 10,000 communities. The provision would also provide loan repayments and scholarships through the National Health Service Corps to create an additional 20,000 primary care doctors, dentists, nurse practitioners, physician assistants and mental health professionals.

Very importantly, Sanders also said the provision would save Medicaid tens of billions of dollars by keeping patients out of emergency rooms and hospitals by providing primary care when then needed it.

More at the link below:

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=30B2A415-4ADE-4367-AF7D-4C3306E31B58

[exactaplayer]

Tell me, EP, who are the "Insurance companies" and "corporate bigwigs" more pleased with at the moment: The Dems or the Republicans?

Boxcar
The Insurance companies have them both in their grasp and are actually pleased with both of them. It is shaping up to be a win--win situation for the Insurance companies. If the repubs find a way to stop reform the insurance companies just keep on raising rates and decreasing benefits. If the reverse the insurance companies gain another 30 million or so customers. No big change for them either way. As for the other corporate big wigs this will depend on how much the Dems cave into them on financial reform. Starting to look like bad news for the average American again. The teabaggers have the right idea, they are just misguided. This is not a Barack Obama Dem problem, this is a problem with the U.S. government being run by the corporate lobbyists.

John........
As for it being one sided. The republicans set out to stop it immediately. Not to stop health care reform but to stop Obama. Something in the words of "if we stop health care reform we stop Obama" One of them sent out emails to fellow republicans suggesting ways to stop this bill from advancing including fillibustering. Like I said earlier if they had said well let's see if we can work out something that won't hurt us too much then it would not have been political. It became two sided as a response to this mode of attack Obama from the repubs.

[PaceAdvantage]

The party of NO were more interested in beating Obama then doing anything positive in regards to health care reform.Hey, they learned from the best playbook around...YOUR (dems) playbook during the later years of the Bush admin...

[Tom]

You mean the Insurance companies ? Or just the corporate big wigs in general ?
The whole senate was listening to these dudes not just the republicans.

Listening and ignoring them.

[andymays]

HHS Secretary Praises Abortion Accounting Trick in Senate Bill

http://www.breitbart.tv/hhs-secretary-praises-abortion-accounting-trick-in-senate-bill/

Excerpt:

VerumSerum: The federal government will legally compel you to contribute funds exclusively designated to pay for abortion into the new government-run system.

[Tom]

This will make us no longer nation under God, and by definition - a nation no longer fit to be supported.

Nazi America has arrived.
Holocaust Harry and Osama take their places in history beside Hitler and Stalin, as they move past Bin Laden in inflicting harm on this country.

[exactaplayer]

Hey, they learned from the best playbook around...YOUR (dems) playbook during the later years of the Bush admin...
Please show me where Senator Reid sent out a message to the Dems saying,
"if we defeat this bill we defeat Bush." followed up with instructions on how to defeat said bill.
Tom,
The Senate Health Care Bill: Leave No Special Interest Behind (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/the-senate-health-care-bi_b_400006.html)

[andymays]

Gov. Paterson, Mayor Bloomberg and other NY pols: Health care bill is prescription for disaster

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/12/22/2009-12-22_ny_pols_senates_plan_would_close_clinics_threat en_hosps_cost_1b_disgrace_of_a_he.html#ixzz0aQrUi6 Jv

Excerpt:

The Senate health reform bill is packed with lumps of coal for New York's Christmas stocking.

Gov. Paterson, Mayor Bloomberg and other officials warned the Senate plan would:

- Force the city to close 100 health clinics.
- Blow a $1 billion hole in the state's budget.
- Threaten struggling hospitals, nursing homes and other facilities.

"It is really a disgrace and we've got to make sure that we fight before the bill is finally passed," Bloomberg fumed.

New York ended up on the short end as Senate brokers showered cash on states whose senators were among the last holdouts before Democratic leaders locked up the 60 needed votes.

New York's best hope now is emergency surgery to undo the shafting before the bill becomes final.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/12/22/2009-12-22_ny_pols_senates_plan_would_close_clinics_threat en_hosps_cost_1b_disgrace_of_a_he.html#ixzz0aQrh1z NB

[andymays]

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/12/22/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry6009356.shtml

Excerpt:

Harkin dismissed deals dubbed vote-buying by GOP senators as "small stuff" that distracted Americans from the primary focus of the overhaul bill.

[exactaplayer]

The Senate has been voting at odd hours since Monday around 1 a.m., because Republicans have insisted on using all the time allowed them under Senate rules to delay the bill. Not to be thwarted, Reid, D-Nev., has refused to postpone action until after the holidays. Hence the unusual schedule. On Tuesday, they started voting at sunrise.

[johnhannibalsmith]

The Republicans are opposed to this form of health care reform. Why are you demonizing them for representing their constituents and having the spine to fight legislation which they oppose?

It seems utterly childish to come with that Janeane Garafolo MSNBC venom (people that oppose big government just hate our black President) that belittles any point that is trying to be made.

How can you say that?

What makes extreme liberals so bloody advanced in their respective speculative, mind-reading abilities?

How is it that you can see through every charade and reduce it to some slap in the face to Barack Obama?

Are you telling me that if these goofy Republicans were trying to ram through some insanely insulting pile of crap bill that defied your beliefs that you would be appalled if the liberal representatives were in opposition and fought tooth and nail for your beliefs?

Come on...

I'd be right with you if this bill was any good at all and ever was any good. It didn't get bad lately. It didn't get bad because the right wasn't contributing.

It was bad, was always bad, and frankly, your FAR left has blatantly ignored the few positive contributions that could have been made to construct a decent bill.

As far as the crap about opponents having it in for Obama - get real. Some of them may, but there are a lot more opponents to this abomination than the several dozen legislators in Congress - and most of us tepidly leaned in the direction of our President over his challenger at the polls - so please don't give me that crap ass argument - it's bogus FAR left liberal snottiness that comes from being raised to believe that you are constantly being victimized or oppressed.

You aren't being victimized - you're being whiny - like usual.

[Dave Schwartz]

Last night I watched perhaps a dozen commercials about the new health care proposal. Okay - I didn't actually watch them as much as fly through them - a DVR is a wonderful thing.

Anyway, if everything in the commercial was true - no pre-existing conditions, no refusals, low cost, won't destroy the budget - if all that were true I'd be all for it. How could you not?

The commercial reminded me of the guys selling get-rich-quick horse racing schemes.: 40% winners, a $16 mutuel and 100 bets per day, all for $29.95. LOL - Sounded a lot like snake oil.

Then, in the paper this morning it says that the bill will take effect in 2014.

This just gets better and better. Is this guy totally nuts?


Dave

[dartman51]

The Republicans are opposed to this form of health care reform. Why are you demonizing them for representing their constituents and having the spine to fight legislation which they oppose?

It seems utterly childish to come with that Janeane Garafolo MSNBC venom (people that oppose big government just hate our black President) that belittles any point that is trying to be made.

How can you say that?

What makes extreme liberals so bloody advanced in their respective speculative, mind-reading abilities?

How is it that you can see through every charade and reduce it to some slap in the face to Barack Obama?

Are you telling me that if these goofy Republicans were trying to ram through some insanely insulting pile of crap bill that defied your beliefs that you would be appalled if the liberal representatives were in opposition and fought tooth and nail for your beliefs?

Come on...

I'd be right with you if this bill was any good at all and ever was any good. It didn't get bad lately. It didn't get bad because the right wasn't contributing.

It was bad, was always bad, and frankly, your FAR left has blatantly ignored the few positive contributions that could have been made to construct a decent bill.

As far as the crap about opponents having it in for Obama - get real. Some of them may, but there are a lot more opponents to this abomination than the several dozen legislators in Congress - and most of us tepidly leaned in the direction of our President over his challenger at the polls - so please don't give me that crap ass argument - it's bogus FAR left liberal snottiness that comes from being raised to believe that you are constantly being victimized or oppressed.

You aren't being victimized - you're being whiny - like usual.


Well said, THANK YOU!:ThmbUp:

[dartman51]

Last night I watched perhaps a dozen commercials about the new health care proposal. Okay - I didn't actually watch them as much as fly through them - a DVR is a wonderful thing.

Anyway, if everything in the commercial was true - no pre-existing conditions, no refusals, low cost, won't destroy the budget - if all that were true I'd be all for it. How could you not?

The commercial reminded me of the guys selling get-rich-quick horse racing schemes.: 40% winners, a $16 mutuel and 100 bets per day, all for $29.95. LOL - Sounded a lot like snake oil.

Then, in the paper this morning it says that the bill will take effect in 2014.

This just gets better and better. Is this guy totally nuts?


Dave

Yeah, makes you want to go out and buy a new car, start paying for it now, but can't take delivery on it till 2014. Makes good sense to me. NOT! :bang:

[Tom]

The Senate has been voting at odd hours since Monday around 1 a.m., because Republicans have insisted on using all the time allowed them under Senate rules to delay the bill. Not to be thwarted, Reid, D-Nev., has refused to postpone action until after the holidays. Hence the unusual schedule. On Tuesday, they started voting at sunrise.

The hurry to get this passed that everyone of them know that if the people get a reasonable chance to read it and see the garbage they packed in it, the needles pork, the outright bribes, and the multiple violations of the constitution, they would be outraged. Everyone trying to pass this bill knows how bad it is. The know it will make Obama a liar by impose 87 billion in new payroll taxes on the middle class, that it will cut medicare now, that no benefits from it will come for at least years, and that even then, it will leave 23 million people not covered. Pay now, hope for treatment later.
The lies of the current sound bytes are exposed in the bill itself.

[boxcar]

The Senate has been voting at odd hours since Monday around 1 a.m., because Republicans have insisted on using all the time allowed them under Senate rules to delay the bill. Not to be thwarted, Reid, D-Nev., has refused to postpone action until after the holidays. Hence the unusual schedule. On Tuesday, they started voting at sunrise.

So, what's you point? The repugs were playing by the rules, so Dingy Harry uses a dirty trick to neutralize the senate's own rule!?

Boxcar

[exactaplayer]

The Republicans are opposed to this form of health care reform. Why are you demonizing them for representing their constituents and having the spine to fight legislation which they oppose?
Did you not get the memo ? "destroy this bill and we destroy Obama" It was sent to all the republican senators


It seems utterly childish to come with that Janeane Garafolo MSNBC venom (people that oppose big government just hate our black President) that belittles any point that is trying to be made.
How can you say that?

I did not say this ! Do not attribute to me things others say.

What makes extreme liberals so bloody advanced in their respective speculative, mind-reading abilities?

How is it that you can see through every charade and reduce it to some slap in the face to Barack Obama?

Again read the memo

Are you telling me that if these goofy Republicans were trying to ram through some insanely insulting pile of crap bill that defied your beliefs that you would be appalled if the liberal representatives were in opposition and fought tooth and nail for your beliefs?

No I am saying if the Democrats put out a bulleting/memo saying crush this Republican bill and we will in effect crush Bush/Palin/McCain or whoever, I would say they are just being political and should be ashamed of themselves.
Come on...

I'd be right with you if this bill was any good at all and ever was any good. It didn't get bad lately. It didn't get bad because the right wasn't contributing.

It was bad, was always bad, and frankly, your FAR left has blatantly ignored the few positive contributions that could have been made to construct a decent bill.

This bill is bad I agree. The Democrats did include 161 amendments put up by the Republicans and it is still bad.

As far as the crap about opponents having it in for Obama - get real. Some of them may, but there are a lot more opponents to this abomination than the several dozen legislators in Congress - and most of us tepidly leaned in the direction of our President over his challenger at the polls - so please don't give me that crap ass argument - it's bogus FAR left liberal snottiness that comes from being raised to believe that you are constantly being victimized or oppressed.

Been to any tea parties lately ? Listened to whiner Beck or loudmouth Limbaugh ? Or poor lil Sarah, nasty media asking her hard questions and all, or any of the bs'ers on faux ?
You aren't being victimized - you're being whiny - like usual.
Just stating facts. My premise in this matter is the lobbyists in D.C. have taken over our government. Has nothing to do with either Democrats or the Republicans, they are all in the grasp and ALL of us are the victims.

[Tom]

Then the first step is to destroy Obama politically.
Or just leave him alone and let his lies do it to him.
The lie about no taxes killed Bush 41.....we must ensure EVERYONE knows why they make less money in their checks nest year - because of a lying POS miserable excuse of a president who is a 100% failure. Ditto Holocaust Harry and the Plastic Bitches.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Exactaplayer -

No, I didn't get the memo, which I suppose is why I feel aggravated by being lumped in with those that may object to a bill under those pretenses.

Similarly, I imagine there are those that DID get the memo that object to having their motivations defined by a memo that they may have received, yet felt very little support for.

I can't speak to anyone else's motivation for supporting or refuting a philosophy or in this case, a legislative bill.

I'm sure there is partisan rationale, die-hard party members that seek to dismantle the 'opposition' party - unfortunately, even if it is the case that they wish to do so, their motives are well cloaked behind opposition to a bill that is terrible. They have the luxury of stifling an agenda that is easy enough to defend stifling on the merits of its absurdity without being called to the carpet for the underlying motives.

I guess I'm saying - the memo is moot - the bill sucks and it flies in the face of that party's ideals so the claim that the memo is the villain is a red herring.

As to the Garafolo/MSNBC analogy - you are right - you didn't say that specifically - I drew that conclusion based upon your references to 'teabaggers' and the 'git Obama at all costs' theories. I apologize for misrepresenting you and your feelings if that wasn't your intent.

The rest of your response to my post I'll just let stand as the memo thing doesn't interest me that much - I'm glad that you would oppose such a thing coming from the left as much as you do when it originates from the right. I'll take you at your word; it seems that you routinely support the left as much as you have disdain for the right, so that explains my quickness to presume that were the shoe on the other foot, you wouldn't be nearly as outraged.

And no - I haven't been to any tea parties, nor do I listen to Rush or Hannity, but I can admit that I watch Beck from time to time (his show is on at the same time as Sopranos re-runs, so he runs a clear second in that time slot) - but, I also don't see the benefit in running down the other joker to make case for a preferred joker. That method of comparison has never meant much to me - I try to be an equal opportunity critic, unfortunately all of the targets are coming from one contributor for the most part.

I hope that you are purely being genuine, particularly with the closing commentary - for I completely agree with you. This is not Republican nor Democrat - it is both. It is a Washington thing - The Hot Plate Heaven at the Green Hotel thing. It's bad politics top to bottom, inside to out - which is where my thoughts began - STOP laying blame at the feet of one party or assuming that we would have gotten something beneficial with a collaborative effort from both parties -- We're going to get the big banana up the keister regardless of who agrees with who and what memo is sent where so long as the will of the people is ignored by everyone that is charged with representation.

Sorry for being a ranting dick at your expense, but you gave me a good platform and I stand corrected on the points to which you object. ;)

[bigmack]

:lol: :lol:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/12_22_09_17_15_45.png

[andymays]

Compromise or Corruption?: The CBS Evening News Examines the Senate Health Bill


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suPkDOJwqpI&feature=player_embedded

[skate]

Bullets tend to improve their memories.
Ballots are a waste of time.


This I lovith:)

Now..,i'm not much for shooting someone...just yet.

But, if the media, along with the Rep., along with the Dem. keep on saying things like "Patriotism is Your Vote". And since we know they are lying, sure, they'll tose a bone or two into the mix, but... why would anyone think their vote is a good thing?
Oh, yeh "it should be good".

[skate]

I'm not going to argue that the notion of health care reform has been largely a political battle... but I'm failing to grasp how it was one-sidedly so....

A public option was political by its very nature, abortion funding is obviously going to create political waves, and a public mandate through tax-code enforcement is NOTHING but bad politics....

This was the bill from the word go - the basic tenets of a demo-health care bill. It has been political every step of the way, with or without Republican obstruction or liberal civil war.

When you expect governement to create your utopia for you, what you receive back is politics.

Welp, there IT is folks.

I've not known of a bill, not attainable (most common way to go) thru your congressperson, before a final vote.

So now we are up to 2700 pages and what? they are going to pass the thing on xMas eve...wooo!