If not for the demons..

[only11]

Pat V. is of to a great start at FG,no telling how good PVal would have been if not for substance abuse.Lets hope he doesnt land up like Antley.

[Trotman]

only 11 you know I hear your words but over the years you harden. I lost a good friend to substance abuse. He was an angel,would do anything for anyone and I'm the one left asking what could I have done. For sure I'm colder not half the person I could be but empty. I have no empathy for those who choose life in wonderland to the real life but we are the ones always left standing.

[only11]

only 11 you know I hear your words but over the years you harden. I lost a good friend to substance abuse. He was an angel,would do anything for anyone and I'm the one left asking what could I have done. For sure I'm colder not half the person I could be but empty. I have no empathy for those who choose life in wonderland to the real life but we are the ones always left standing.
Some say its a addiction,others like Lasorda say its a WEAKNESS.

[joanied]

It's an addiction caused by weakness...the weak point comes first...when you take whatever drug it is the first time...after that, unless you have a bad experience with it first try, you go for the second helping...and it's all over..and very, very difficult to stop...which is obvious.
But, it can be beaten...it takes a ton of courage, but it can be done...once you beat it, you'll think of it everyday, and must maintain your strength, eventually, you will think about it, but also feel releif that you are clean and staying that way, so the thoughts you are now having are positive ones. Using cocain (drug of choice for the jockeys) the battle to stay clean is 90% mental, unlike heroin, that is mostly a physical fight.
I beleive that P val has reached the point in which his mental outlook is now turned positive, and that this time, he'll stay clean.

I also beleive that Chris Antley was well on the way to being clean for the rest of his life...until Charismatic broke down...I beleive that sent Chris over the edge, as he took to drugs again to 'ease the pain' of Charsimatic's break down and not winning the TC with him...and I give credit to DW Lukas for giving Chris a chance when many other trainers would not. Sometimes, when fighting an addiction, all you need are a few people that beleive in you.

[toussaud]

I happen to be a recovering addict and trust me, it's easy to say it's a weakness when it's not YOUR weakness.

there were times in my addiction where I would, honestly, not want to do anything to do with my addiction and I would get a large sum of money and I owuld, physically, lock up. I'd sit in bed and just lock up, not wanting to do what addicts do, but not being able to think or fuction until I did something about something.

It's tough to break. it's breakable, I'm and millions of others are proof.. but don't be so quick to judge.

just pray for the man and hope he's gotten over them already, taken too many lives. I count my blessings everyday.

[joanied]

I happen to be a recovering addict and trust me, it's easy to say it's a weakness when it's not YOUR weakness.

there were times in my addiction where I would, honestly, not want to do anything to do with my addiction and I would get a large sum of money and I owuld, physically, lock up. I'd sit in bed and just lock up, not wanting to do what addicts do, but not being able to think or fuction until I did something about something.

It's tough to break. it's breakable, I'm and millions of others are proof.. but don't be so quick to judge.

just pray for the man and hope he's gotten over them already, taken too many lives. I count my blessings everyday.

OK...since you admitted to being a recovering addict...then I will say I also talk from experience, toussaud....looks like we have something in common besides this board:) ...so my talking about weakness is because I know what it's like...I could tell you things that'd probably shock you...but, bottom line...I know, I lived through it (a miracle)...first with my first husband, then with myself...it's a vicious way of life and it takes courage to get out f it.
And, since I know what I'm talking about...let me give you a pat on tha back, and a hug, for being strong enough to fiinally overcome it...like I did...and not a day goes by that I don't think about 'it'.
So, you see, I am not judging...been there, done that. Oh, the stories I could tell:eek:

[only11]

I happen to be a recovering addict and trust me, it's easy to say it's a weakness when it's not YOUR weakness.

there were times in my addiction where I would, honestly, not want to do anything to do with my addiction and I would get a large sum of money and I owuld, physically, lock up. I'd sit in bed and just lock up, not wanting to do what addicts do, but not being able to think or fuction until I did something about something.

It's tough to break. it's breakable, I'm and millions of others are proof.. but don't be so quick to judge.

just pray for the man and hope he's gotten over them already, taken too many lives. I count my blessings everyday.
Toussad im glad things worked out for you!

[toussaud]

Seems like he is doing okay.

I think he will be fine as long as he is not in california. I mean if you want it bad enough you will find it, but it's a whole nother animal when it's looking for you, which is probbaly the case when he's in socal.

[joanied]

Seems like he is doing okay.

I think he will be fine as long as he is not in california. I mean if you want it bad enough you will find it, but it's a whole nother animal when it's looking for you, which is probbaly the case when he's in socal.

Absolutely...he does need to stay away from CA... and let's hope 'it' stays away from him...he needs to surround himself with the 'right' people, because misery loves company. I was at my worst when I was in CA...it's everywhere, so I came back to WY.
Anyway...I wish P Val all the luck in the world...toussaud, we both know it's a battle everyday...but I feel that he is going to be OK now.

[Stillriledup]

I don't want to get in to a substance abuse discussion, but no one forced anyone to take drugs the very first time. There was a time when all of us were clean, with no addiction and no dependence. You make a bad decision, then get hooked, but want others to sympathize with you for making a bad decision. Just don't do it in the first place. Don't start and you won't have to worry about quitting. Its not rocket science.

P Val was an all time great in the making, one of the best ever and he tossed it all away and he's riding in the bushes.

[Trotman]

To all just re-read all the posts here again and it got me to thinking of the movie Seabiscuit....You just can't throw it away cause it's a little banged up was I believe the line went. So here's hoping that PV has got it beat :ThmbUp:

[toussaud]

I don't want to get in to a substance abuse discussion, but no one forced anyone to take drugs the very first time. There was a time when all of us were clean, with no addiction and no dependence. You make a bad decision, then get hooked, but want others to sympathize with you for making a bad decision. Just don't do it in the first place. Don't start and you won't have to worry about quitting. Its not rocket science.

P Val was an all time great in the making, one of the best ever and he tossed it all away and he's riding in the bushes.


well that's alot easier said than done.

It's usually not the first time that gets you hooked. There was a time.. acdtually a LONG time in my addiction I am convinced I could have walked away and been fine. Then you realize when you want to stop, you can't but by then you ARE hooked.

Then, you dont' get HOOKED on all drugs. Different Drugs effect different people differently.

For instance, alcohol, I've never had an alcohol problem. I had a little bit too much to drink (by accident, underestimated how many white russians I had and how strong they are.. but they are soo good!).. that was 4 years ago give or take, even through my addiction, never had anything stronger than a wine cooler since, doubt I ever will. just doesn't appeal to me. And even then I have to be watching a good horse race or a football game or something.

I"m not the moral police, different people have their vices. I'm sure people look at us and think we are all degenerates and we spend too much time gambling. To each their own. Drugs are not a probelm by themselves, drugs..one in parituclar actually, becomes a problem when I become associated with them lol.

then it's alot eaiser for a person raised in a nice middle class working family and have not had the day in day out exposure to that type of thing, to "well you are stupid for picking it up in the first place". I can't use that excuse as I grew up in a pretty good enviorment, but still, there are alot of factors that come into drug use.

No one is really looking for sympthy as much as understanding, and not even so much for my case or any one person's in particular case, but misinformation and bad misconceptons are the reason why all of america is hooked on something.

when I talk about addiction it's more to help people "get it". When I decided to stop, I stopped and turned my life around. Without going into too many details I do quite well for myself espically for my age (26).

but the pepople who say "well you are stupid for picking up" and "well why don't you just smoke a little weed" or something like that, or whatever the case may be, are the same people who have kids experimenting wtih drugs right under their nose and dont' know it beucase they dont' know how to work with their kids about drugs or dont' know what to look for.

People look at someone like PVal and don't get how someone with that much potential can let a substance of any kind kick his ass for so long. My whole thing is just trying to explain.. hey man.. while you are talking.. you really just dont' get it. Not saying he's hopless, but it's not as easy as it looks or seems, and that coudl very well be you or someone you know.

Look at GoGo. He had substance abuse problems, nipped it in the butt and now he's kicking butt and taking names. Even jerry bailey had an alcohol problem.

Anyway rant mode off, I don't really feel bad for him, but I do understand what he is going though and I wish him the best.

it's hard for people like him to quit, REAL hard becuase most people quit becuase they can't afford the habit. he Can. for him it's an expensive habit. IMHO those are the hardest of all.

[Stillriledup]

well that's alot easier said than done.

It's usually not the first time that gets you hooked. There was a time.. acdtually a LONG time in my addiction I am convinced I could have walked away and been fine. Then you realize when you want to stop, you can't but by then you ARE hooked.

Then, you dont' get HOOKED on all drugs. Different Drugs effect different people differently.

For instance, alcohol, I've never had an alcohol problem. I had a little bit too much to drink (by accident, underestimated how many white russians I had and how strong they are.. but they are soo good!).. that was 4 years ago give or take, even through my addiction, never had anything stronger than a wine cooler since, doubt I ever will. just doesn't appeal to me. And even then I have to be watching a good horse race or a football game or something.

I"m not the moral police, different people have their vices. I'm sure people look at us and think we are all degenerates and we spend too much time gambling. To each their own. Drugs are not a probelm by themselves, drugs..one in parituclar actually, becomes a problem when I become associated with them lol.

then it's alot eaiser for a person raised in a nice middle class working family and have not had the day in day out exposure to that type of thing, to "well you are stupid for picking it up in the first place". I can't use that excuse as I grew up in a pretty good enviorment, but still, there are alot of factors that come into drug use.

No one is really looking for sympthy as much as understanding, and not even so much for my case or any one person's in particular case, but misinformation and bad misconceptons are the reason why all of america is hooked on something.

when I talk about addiction it's more to help people "get it". When I decided to stop, I stopped and turned my life around. Without going into too many details I do quite well for myself espically for my age (26).

but the pepople who say "well you are stupid for picking up" and "well why don't you just smoke a little weed" or something like that, or whatever the case may be, are the same people who have kids experimenting wtih drugs right under their nose and dont' know it beucase they dont' know how to work with their kids about drugs or dont' know what to look for.

People look at someone like PVal and don't get how someone with that much potential can let a substance of any kind kick his ass for so long. My whole thing is just trying to explain.. hey man.. while you are talking.. you really just dont' get it. Not saying he's hopless, but it's not as easy as it looks or seems, and that coudl very well be you or someone you know.

Look at GoGo. He had substance abuse problems, nipped it in the butt and now he's kicking butt and taking names. Even jerry bailey had an alcohol problem.

Anyway rant mode off, I don't really feel bad for him, but I do understand what he is going though and I wish him the best.

it's hard for people like him to quit, REAL hard becuase most people quit becuase they can't afford the habit. he Can. for him it's an expensive habit. IMHO those are the hardest of all.


Excellent post. Glad you're clean these days, that's a very good thing, you should be proud of yourself for just saying no.

[WinterTriangle]

it's not as easy as it looks or seems, and that coudl very well be you or someone you know.

I believe there's brain chemistry involved. At your age I experimented with drugs and alcohol, and never developed any kind of addiction.

I know someone who tried a drug once and was addicted. He was changed, physically and chemically, in that moment, in some major way.

The newer Stop Smoking drugs such as Chantix target a "specific" brain center that derives pleasure from nicotene, and "turns it off'.

People with chronic pain syndromes become addicted to the opiods their doctors prescribe. But many don't. We do not fully understand the mechanisms (physiologically) yet.

I don't judge it. I certainly don't feel above anyone who becomes an addict. It's not because I'm "stronger". I am rather undisciplined in so many ways. I thank god I do not have an addictive make-up, my genetics somehow blessed me in this way, even though I have tempted fate. (I must have my coffee, though.:) )

Congrats to you, Toussaud, for reaching deep to pull yourself out.

[nijinski]

Very good posts here .

My thoughts regarding substance abuse , and since we are discussing jockey's , I guess the appetite suppressing abilities of methamphetamines and
such would be be of utmost temptation to the most vulnerable.
I am a female I had as a teenager used them at times , not crack but amphetamines.
They were very available and curbed the appetite . A struggling Jocks delight.
Thankfully I also stopped in my teens , cause Dad was on my case 24/7.

Sounds like I am giving them an excuse , but I realise they have their struggles , and make bad decisions at times . But obviously some need strong
support.
I wsh the best for P Val , I hope he has the strength and courage to stay clean.

[toussaud]

Very good posts here .

My thoughts regarding substance abuse , and since we are discussing jockey's , I guess the appetite suppressing abilities of methamphetamines and
such would be be of utmost temptation to the most vulnerable.
I am a female I had as a teenager used them at times , not crack but amphetamines.
They were very available and curbed the appetite . A struggling Jocks delight.
Thankfully I also stopped in my teens , cause Dad was on my case 24/7.

Sounds like I am giving them an excuse , but I realise they have their struggles , and make bad decisions at times . But obviously some need strong
support.
I wsh the best for P Val , I hope he has the strength and courage to stay clean.
all stimulants are appitite supressing.