Horses that never panned out..

[tzipi]

I dont mean horses like Sham who was a champ but ran into Secretariat. Not big horses that were already big winners and proven and then just lost races. I mean horses that you probably just know that you saw from their first race and first couple who took off and you expected big things and then just dropped off the face of the earth. Just your memories and stories. Little horses maybe you just remember. Not the really big name ones. We know them. ;)

I loved a horse called GALLOPING GROCER,who took off whipping NY fields by open lengths and looked unbelievable and I was thinking maybe Derby,maybe more! Well he went head to head with Rockport Harbor in the Remsen,losing a photo finish and just got killed every race after. He ran in the Preakness,only to run up track,then I think he was running in allowances and then *boom* was gone from racing. On a farm somewhere now,breeding or whatever.
Just went from a steep rise in NY to a sharp drop and into oblivion.

[toussaud]

I remember 2 years ago I was hook line and sinker for a horse called Air Commander for Baffert out in socal. I just would not let it die.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Discreet Treasure? Is that the name of the gray El Prado (I think) colt that broke his maiden a year or so ago in NY in the slop by about nine after falling about fifteen off the lead going seven-eighths in his debut?

I watched that SOB win that day and said - this is going to be one running fool when he gets to distance and surface that he wants to be on.

I chased this thing for about four tedious starts before I relented and realized he was utterly average and consistently overbet.

[TiznowfaninNY]

Shah Jehan
Rockport Harbor (in terms of expectations)
Toccet was very nice, and then ruined
Lawrence the Roman
Unbridled Roman


Plenty more, those are the ones that come to mind.

[toussaud]

Discreet Treasure? Is that the name of the gray El Prado (I think) colt that broke his maiden a year or so ago in NY in the slop by about nine after falling about fifteen off the lead going seven-eighths in his debut?

I watched that SOB win that day and said - this is going to be one running fool when he gets to distance and surface that he wants to be on.

I chased this thing for about four tedious starts before I relented and realized he was utterly average and consistently overbet.
discreet treasure won a couple of allowence mile races this year. not his brother or anything but not a bad horse.

air commander on the other hand, won 1 freaking allowence race, and struggled to do tat, but I let baffet talk me into the potential arguement when he did the post race interview. he got his butt handed to him on a silver platter the next race by cobalt blue (talk about a horse that belongs in this discussion) and I still bet him , and he got beat in an allowence race and didn't hit the board (in retrospect well armed won that race).

he did beat tiago in a grade 2 last year but finished up the track in the big cap never to be heard from again. he was pretty though.

[toussaud]

oh shoot i can't beleve I forgot the ovbious answer, MAGNIFICIENCE .

never in the history of horse racing has a horse lived that long off an impressive maiden victory. i firmly believed she was better than rags to riches at least up to maybe a mile.

I have major issues with that way she was handled. she was an utter freak of nature on dirt. she was probably effected moreso than any west coast horse by the surface switch. Becuase she became an instant non factor as soon as the surface changed.

if socal stayed to dirt, god knows what she was capable of doing. wish she would have shipped east.

actually bruce headly had it bad that year becuase he had Arson Squad and surf cat, both of whch were pure dirt horses who struggled on synethics, yet he never sent any of them east.

my gosh this thread is bringing back memories,. at one point surf cat was virtually unbeatable in southern california. ran straight though his condiitions. MSW, allowence, grade 3, grade 2, was an utter terror out there in socal, and the surface switch, instant non factor, and never gets shipped outside of socal, though he was classy enough to still win a few races, but the dirt surf cat was a monster.

[tucker6]

five replies and no one mentioned Green Monkey yet?

[Valuist]

Did the Green Rat ever break his maiden?

[DanG]

This doesn’t really qualify as ‘never panned out’; but it is a good excuse to discuss a quality animal many aren’t aware of.

1985 a Willard Proctor / Claiborne colt named “Swear”. My brother worked for Proctor at the time and Swear was so revered Wayne Lukas would go out of his way back from the kitchen to walk by the barn just to check him out. This was always noticed of course because Proctor and the old Kentucky guard couldn’t stand Wayne and that’s putting it mildly.

Swear died very suddenly of (colic I believe) and the barn went into shock. A serious losing streak came after his death and for those who think a barn can’t turn (both good and / or bad) from one isolated event…they can / and did in this case.

Wish I had a happier holiday story, :blush: but by most experienced accounts Swear was the goods and I’m guessing most outside of California most never heard of him.

[Robert Fischer]

air commander on the other hand, won 1 freaking allowence race, and struggled to do tat, but I let baffet talk me into the potential arguement when he did the post race interview. he got his butt handed to him on a silver platter the next race by cobalt blue (talk about a horse that belongs in this discussion) and I still bet him , and he got beat in an allowence race and didn't hit the board (in retrospect well armed won that race).

i remember him from a race , i think at SA with the old synth they had before pro-ride. The track was jacked up and all the speed was running around together for a few days without anyone making a move all race. Can't remember if he won or finished ITM, but he was one of the 4 or 5 speeds and they came in for the trifecta. I think he was 45-1. Wasn't crazy about the horse but that day I liked him.

[Tom]

Dollar Bill
Pyro

[illinoisbred]

Meadowlake-soundness issues

[sandpit]

Dollar Bill
Pyro

if there was ever a jockey that didn't fit a horse, it was Pat Day on Dollar Bill

[tzipi]

five replies and no one mentioned Green Monkey yet?

The Green Monkey didn't even win a maiden race.
I forgot about Lawrence the Roman. He looked great early. Thought he'd turn into something great. But nothing.

[andymays]

Just follow John White (Horse Racings Mr. Rogers) on HRTV.

He'll give out a quite a few that will never pan out.

[startngate]

I would have to argue Arazi in this spot, despite your condition of never winning a big race. His BC win was nothing short of spectacular, and he was mis-handled leading up to the Derby and was never the same again.

One could argue that Lentenor and Nicanor currently belong here, given everyone's hyping the full brothers of Barbaro. They still have chances to earn their way off the list though.

[tzipi]

I would have to argue Arazi in this spot, despite your condition of never winning a big race. His BC win was nothing short of spectacular, and he was mis-handled leading up to the Derby and was never the same again.

One could argue that Lentenor and Nicanor currently belong here, given everyone's hyping the full brothers of Barbaro. They still have chances to earn their way off the list though.

I personally would'nt say Arazi. He won a ton a G1's then won the BC Juv,then went back to France to win the Prix Omnium. Yeah,lost the derby but did win the Prix du Rond Point. I think he had a great career except for Derby and BC Mile.
I will agree that B.C. Juvenile was a freak performance and made you think wow what if. Secretariat like.

[Wickel]

This is bit more obscure, but I remember Irish Majesty starting out with a bang, with potential for a monster career on the turf. Now he's running near the bottom on the NY circuit. Injuries, broken spirit ... probably both.

[rastajenk]

If I could go back and look at my Road to the Roses contest stables the last few years, I could come up with dozens of examples. :eek:

[Trotman]

This thread got me thinking of a 5-6 page artical I was reading on one of the horse racing web sites a few years ago. The heading of the artical really got me with regards to the number of young horses that go through as the author wrote the D.Wayne Lukas and Baffert mills. It was astounding the number of horses and the prices that we're paid at the yearling sales for these well bred animals only never to be heard from once in training. The author then went on to the 2yr olds that did make it to the races only to break down and never we're heard from again and yet so many of us think these two trainers are great,like anything else in horse racing what have you done lately is not noticed with these two trainers we only dwell on their past triumphs and continue to call them great and even then the horse is forgotten like a stand in.

[toussaud]

This thread got me thinking of a 5-6 page artical I was reading on one of the horse racing web sites a few years ago. The heading of the artical really got me with regards to the number of young horses that go through as the author wrote the D.Wayne Lukas and Baffert mills. It was astounding the number of horses and the prices that we're paid at the yearling sales for these well bred animals only never to be heard from once in training. The author then went on to the 2yr olds that did make it to the races only to break down and never we're heard from again and yet so many of us think these two trainers are great,like anything else in horse racing what have you done lately is not noticed with these two trainers we only dwell on their past triumphs and continue to call them great and even then the horse is forgotten like a stand in.

why don't you tell us how you really feel about baffert and lukas?

[joanied]

five replies and no one mentioned Green Monkey yet?

I was...but, as usual, I'm a day late and a dollar short...he's the first one that came to mind:faint:

[joanied]

Did the Green Rat ever break his maiden?

Nope!!

[Trotman]

Toussaud all I was saying is the thread got me thinking of something I read on the web. Now if the author had a bone to pick with Lukas or Baffert so be it. If you want my opinion neither could ever be as professional as a Bobby Frankel or a Charlie Whittingham where the horse was it.
You asked so now you have it ;)

[affirmedny]

pulpit
cape canaveral
ravel
big country
officer
flyin j bryan
songandaprayer

[Spalding No!]

Excavate
Fusaichi Samurai
Cien Fuegos
Exetera
On Target
Deeds Not Words
Gold Tribute
Smithfield
General Meeting
Magical Mile
Principle Secret
Prime Ruler
Jump On In
Reflect Times
Single Dawn
Strong Ally
Bull Market
Believe In Hope
Izarra
Santa Catarina
Victory USA
Rue de Palm
Horse Greeley
David Copperfield

[toussaud]

Mr. Segsoemthing..the storm cat baffert horse that sold for like 10 million dollars or something

[joanied]

More recent....Old Fashioned, IMO

[Show Me the Wire]

Even more recent Quality Road.

[joanied]

Even more recent Quality Road.

Ah, yes...but, let's give him another shot at getting off the list:D ...maybe he'll come around, despite his connections:eek:

[affirmedny]

Steppenwolfer, so good he's a jumper now

[OntheRail]

Thepamplemouse

[Dahoss9698]

Even more recent Quality Road.

He set a track record 3 back and was 2nd in the JCGC last time he ran. How hasn't he panned out?

[Grits]

War Pass.

Champion juvenile, but everything that could go awry . . . did, as a 3 year old.

[PaceAdvantage]

This thread got me thinking of a 5-6 page artical I was reading on one of the horse racing web sites a few years ago. The heading of the artical really got me with regards to the number of young horses that go through as the author wrote the D.Wayne Lukas and Baffert mills. It was astounding the number of horses and the prices that we're paid at the yearling sales for these well bred animals only never to be heard from once in training. The author then went on to the 2yr olds that did make it to the races only to break down and never we're heard from again and yet so many of us think these two trainers are great,like anything else in horse racing what have you done lately is not noticed with these two trainers we only dwell on their past triumphs and continue to call them great and even then the horse is forgotten like a stand in.Can you please provide some hard "astounding" numbers and then compare them with other trainers and their percentage of 2yos that go on to be superstars.

You neglect to point out that the Lukas operation in its prime was HUGE...thus, they were bound to have more breakdowns, more 2yos that go bust...sheer law of numbers here...

So, why don't we put it into percentages and then compare them to other trainers on the national scene.

I swear, the Lukas-bashing post will go down in history as the easiest post to get away with...

[Linny]

Baffert has had a few pricey ones but most of his are mid range horses. Pegram doesn't spend millions. Even Lookin at Lucky, by Smart Strike "only" cost about $250k. Baffert has been given some expensive horses but he doesn't shop at that level.

[46zilzal]

Ogygian, Success Express, Houston, Tasso, Green Monkey, Imperial Falcon, and a host of others.

[46zilzal]

I swear, the Lukas-bashing post will go down in history as the easiest post to get away with...
Broken down on ruined more horses than any other prominent trainer in North America. Common talk around the barns.

[Tom]

The four I bet yesterday. :mad:

[Steve R]

In the mid-1970s there was a Stage Door Johnny colt named Shredder which, after three aborted sprints on dirt, broke his maiden at Saratoga on the turf getting 9f in 1:46.3, winning WTW by 9. He rolled back in two weeks in a Belmont turf allowance, prompting the early pace and drawing off to win by 5 in 1:41.2 for 8 1/2f. The field included multiple G1SW Intrepid Hero and English SW Candle Stand. Shredder raced just twice more without a win and disappeared.

At the time, one turf writer described Shredder's maiden win as among the most impressive grass maiden victories in the annals of racing, so much so that he was bet down to 7-5 against proven stakes horses in the allowance race.

[only11]

Capote!

[tzipi]

Capote!

Good one! Yeah broke out to run some big wins early,then POOF,he couldn't win for anything.

[Run Nicholas Run]

if there was ever a jockey that didn't fit a horse, it was Pat Day on Dollar Bill

pat day the human anchor :)

[tzipi]

LOL The green Monkey has been listed here like 5 times.

It's horses that won big time in their beginning and then dissappeared. When did the Green Monkey ever start out with big wins :lol: He was just a wallet bust.

[Zippy Chippy]

What about Square Eddie?

Also, I remember Fusaichi Samurai coming out and being can't miss. I never really heard much from him.

[Cratos]

I dont mean horses like Sham who was a champ but ran into Secretariat. Not big horses that were already big winners and proven and then just lost races. I mean horses that you probably just know that you saw from their first race and first couple who took off and you expected big things and then just dropped off the face of the earth. Just your memories and stories. Little horses maybe you just remember. Not the really big name ones. We know them. ;)

I loved a horse called GALLOPING GROCER,who took off whipping NY fields by open lengths and looked unbelievable and I was thinking maybe Derby,maybe more! Well he went head to head with Rockport Harbor in the Remsen,losing a photo finish and just got killed every race after. He ran in the Preakness,only to run up track,then I think he was running in allowances and then *boom* was gone from racing. On a farm somewhere now,breeding or whatever.
Just went from a steep rise in NY to a sharp drop and into oblivion.


Saarland (one of the best bred horses in recent years), Storm Flag Flying, Sky Mesa, and Discreet Cat.

[tucker6]

LOL The green Monkey has been listed here like 5 times.

It's horses that won big time in their beginning and then dissappeared. When did the Green Monkey ever start out with big wins :lol: He was just a wallet bust.
Try reading the title of this thread. It says "horses that never panned out". I guess some of us consider the Green Monkey to have "never panned out". I realize the comment section from the OP adds more flavor, but based on the title, the GM is an acceptable name. Why do care anyway?

[tzipi]

Try reading the title of this thread. It says "horses that never panned out". I guess some of us consider the Green Monkey to have "never panned out". I realize the comment section from the OP adds more flavor, but based on the title, the GM is an acceptable name. Why do care anyway?

Why are you attacking me? "Try reading" I wrote the post! :lol: You try actually reading it! If you did read it you would know it says horses that you saw or followed who took off winning big and then just dropped off. Green Monkey never even won. Not my fault you didn't take the time out to read what the question was.

[Zippy Chippy]

Why are you attacking me? "Try reading" I wrote the post! :lol: You try actually reading it! If you did read it you would know it says horses that you saw or followed who took off winning big and then just dropped off. Green Monkey never even won. Not my fault you didn't take the time out to read what the question was.

LOL i was confused :lol:

[tzipi]

LOL i was confused :lol:

You never said Green Monkey and that was to Tucker. Hey,do you have two names on here :D

[tucker6]

Why are you attacking me? "Try reading" I wrote the post! :lol: You try actually reading it! If you did read it you would know it says horses that you saw or followed who took off winning big and then just dropped off. Green Monkey never even won. Not my fault you didn't take the time out to read what the question was.
most people who receive five of the same unlooked for responses look inward at their own failing and not to others. Apparently, you didn't receive the introspection gene. Obviously, your post was lacking or you wouldn't have gotten so many bad replies. :faint:

[tzipi]

most people who receive five of the same unlooked for responses look inward at their own failing and not to others. Apparently, you didn't receive the introspection gene. Obviously, your post was lacking or you wouldn't have gotten so many bad replies. :faint:

What is your problem? Another day at losing money at the races for you? Actually he was mentioned twice. No you were just too lazy to read a post. Your telling me to read the posters thread. I was the poster :lol: . Pay attention. Learn to read everything in someone post,so you don't get it wrong. "Gotten so may bad replies". What? Everyones replies are great. Just try reading the whole thread. Everyone here pretty much read the whole post and told their good stories and horses.

Why even get mad? My post was a laughing post about Green Monkey which attacked no one and you get pissed? Guess it's the bets today.

[Spalding No!]

most people who receive five of the same unlooked for responses look inward at their own failing and not to others. Apparently, you didn't receive the introspection gene. Obviously, your post was lacking or you wouldn't have gotten so many bad replies. :faint:

Isn't much more likely that the other 5 people only read the thread title before posting just as you did?

[Trotman]

Pace Advantage excuse me if for what ever reason I ruffled your feathers. All I mentioned was something on the web that got my attention,and I brought it into the forum. I am a Harness handicapper and this site has a lot of serious cappers and kudo's to you. You ask for hard and fast numbers of the horses and I can't tell you but my input got you to respond and is this not why we come to this site, the INPUT. This is a very good site for all as I'm sure everyone could attest to. :ThmbUp:

[big frank]

VALUE PLUS

[bks]

Toussaud wrote:

I remember 2 years ago I was hook line and sinker for a horse called Air Commander for Baffert out in socal. I just would not let it die.

I sure hope you cashed on him the day he outnodded Johnny Eves and denied me a big score. Because I had given up on AC a race before that.

Mr. Segsoemthing..the storm cat baffert horse that sold for like 10 million dollars or something

Believe that would be Mr. Sekiguchi. Remember him as well.

One from recent memory, who I fell in love with after an impressive maiden win: Serra Song. I was sure this horse would be running in the SA Handicap. Is the horse still in training? Don't even know.

[Spalding No!]

One from recent memory, who I fell in love with after an impressive maiden win: Serra Song. I was sure this horse would be running in the SA Handicap. Is the horse still in training? Don't even know.

Dick Mandella seems to train a lot of those lightly-raced types for B. Wayne Hughes.

Patch Of Blue was another that looked to be a good one, but never ran much.

[WinterTriangle]

This is bit more obscure, but I remember Irish Majesty starting out with a bang, with potential for a monster career on the turf. Now he's running near the bottom on the NY circuit. Injuries, broken spirit ... probably both.

I 54 starts, seems like he's been thru so many trainers!! Started out with Romans, then went to Ward, then Dutrow, etc. too many trainers to count.

Oscar Berrerra had him running every 9 days or so when he had him. :rolleyes:

He's at Meadowlands now with Hamer. And his latest work is 25/25.

He's 7 now.

[PaceAdvantage]

Broken down on ruined more horses than any other prominent trainer in North America. Common talk around the barns.Weren't you writing an article about Lukas...supposed to bring to light all this "butcher" talk...was it every published? Or did the actual stats not support your bogus notions?

[PaceAdvantage]

Pace Advantage excuse me if for what ever reason I ruffled your feathers. All I mentioned was something on the web that got my attention,and I brought it into the forum. I am a Harness handicapper and this site has a lot of serious cappers and kudo's to you. You ask for hard and fast numbers of the horses and I can't tell you but my input got you to respond and is this not why we come to this site, the INPUT. This is a very good site for all as I'm sure everyone could attest to. :ThmbUp:Well, that was an awesome deflection...however, it doesn't bring me any closer to my rather reasonable request.

A sport built on statistics can't answer the simplest of questions...did Lukas break down horses at a higher rate (percentage-wise) when compared to other major trainers?

Or, was it that he was such a high profile trainer, everything he did was magnified 1000x during his heyday?

Human beings are curious creatures when it comes to selective memory. Ask any cop interviewing witnesses to an accident...they all saw the same thing, but they'll all tell you different stories in the end.

I've been asking this Lukas breakdown percentage question for years and I don't think I've received a single satisfactory response.

[Trotman]

PA ok ok I don't have a wife but your persistance makes me think that this nagging is what it is like. So I am going to do the best I can to get you your long awaited answer. :bang:

[only11]

Saarland (one of the best bred horses in recent years), Storm Flag Flying, Sky Mesa, and Discreet Cat.
Cratos, these horses you've mentioned all came back from injuries.

[andtheyreoff]

One Hot Wish
Rodeo
Officer
Danseuse
Ruler's Court
Worldly Manner
Eightyfiveinafifty
Orville N Wilbur
Kelly Kip

[misscashalot]

Tom Swift by Secretariat

Pancho Martin was his trainer

Tom was sent to Fla to work out some problems
As therapy he was put in water filled pool
One day Pancho, anxious to get Tom back on the NY track
phoned down to Fla and asked how Tom was doing

He was told Tom was the best swimmer they had

But he remained a bust

[Nikki1997]

Tom Swift by Secretariat

Pancho Martin was his trainer

Tom was sent to Fla to work out some problems
As therapy he was put in water filled pool
One day Pancho, anxious to get Tom back on the NY track
phoned down to Fla and asked how Tom was doing

He was told Tom was the best swimmer they had

But he remained a bust

Tom Swift was NOT by Secretariat--he was a foal of 1973, conceived in 1972 when Secretariat was two .

His actual sire was Tom Rolfe, and he was out of champion mare Shuvee.

He did not live up to expectations, but managed to win the Seneca at 13 furlongs, setting a record .



-----------------------Mikki

[only11]

Woody Stepthens had a horse named WISLA smashing debut never heard from again

[JBmadera]

[QUOTE=PaceAdvantage]Well, that was an awesome deflection...however, it doesn't bring me any closer to my rather reasonable request.



Or, was it that he was such a high profile trainer, everything he did was magnified 1000x during his heyday?



That’s exactly what it is. At the end of the day perception is reality. You couple the high profile nature of his barn with the vast number of horses he trained and the burnout/breakdown legend is born.

Whether or not empirical data can be created, to many Lukas will be know as the trainer who ruined two year olds.

jb

[wisconsin]

There was a full sister to Serena's Song named "Serena's Sister" that ran at Hawthorne a few years back, never ran a lick to my recollection.

[horses4courses]

pat day the human anchor :)

Made a nice score in the 1990 KY Derby....thanks to Pat Day!!!

He gave Unbridled the worst ride imaginable in the Fountain of Youth at GP that year. My co-worker spotted the trouble, and quickly made a trip up the street to a nearby racebook who were offering 150-1 on the horse for the Roses.
I threw a few dollars his way, which turned into a grand by early May.
He got involved much more heavily, and cashed for 5 figures.

You should have seen his eyes light up the day he heard Craig Perret had the ride in the Derby........ :jump:

[Dahoss9698]

Even more recent Quality Road.

In retrospect, this statement is as funny now as it was then.

[only11]

Woody Stepthens had a horse named WISLA smashing debut never heard from again
Actually Wisla went on to win 6 from 11 starts..

[46zilzal]

All of the clones of champions: there are tons of them same sire and dam but zip....Shows how inaccurate selective breeding really is.

[FlowerEssence]

There was a full sister to Serena's Song named "Serena's Sister" that ran at Hawthorne a few years back, never ran a lick to my recollection.

I don't think this counts in any way with regard to the topic, but Serena's Sister wasn't a complete bust-she's the dam of Grade II winner Doubles Partner (Rock Hard Ten).

[Jasonm921]

Here's two. Furiously out of the Mcgaughey barn. Yeah he won the Jerome but coming off his first three races in which he won by double digits ...he looked like the second coming. Second was a horse that never made it to the track...STRONG GOER. This was Easy Goer's full brother. Bill Finley wrote few articles about him when he was a yearling and a two-year old.

[KingChas]

Cribnote-Violette
Roamin Rachel- Shug-thought she would move on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPqW68DSnV0

[KingChas]

Have only applied that label to to 3 horses off their maiden win that I have "seen live".
Being from Pennsylvania 2 of these might be unfamiliar oldies.
Big Red Otter-PN-Spa win
Roamin Rachel-PHA- Spa win
Smarty Jones-Pha... :D

One to watch......dirt?
One newcomer possibility...2010 ............Dawnie Macho
Ap track record ,followed by Landaluce 2yo HP win. ;)

[Stevie Belmont]

Not sure if anyone mentioned Chatain. He had all the attributes of a Super-Star. He was an awesome looking thoroughbred.

In the few races he ran in he was brilliant. The first time I saw him was at the Meadowlands, and I remember saying to myself after seeing him in the paddock—that's what a champion looks like.

His last race at Saratoga he won with a huge move to draw clear. He had a wonderful long stride. He was destined to be a multiple Grade I winner. However his feet were his downfall. He was entered over and over again in races, only to be scratched. If only his feet stayed healthy. He had a lot of great races in him. We never saw the best of this one.

[Hanover1]

[QUOTE=PaceAdvantage]Well, that was an awesome deflection...however, it doesn't bring me any closer to my rather reasonable request.



Or, was it that he was such a high profile trainer, everything he did was magnified 1000x during his heyday?



That’s exactly what it is. At the end of the day perception is reality. You couple the high profile nature of his barn with the vast number of horses he trained and the burnout/breakdown legend is born.

Whether or not empirical data can be created, to many Lukas will be know as the trainer who ruined two year olds.

jb

Not sure the EXACT data is even available. Having been associated with a few sheds having 50-60+ head each, every winter, I am confident that none of us could sit down and recall every horse we lost, sold, got claimed, broke down, died, ect....While we can recall a vast majority of these horses (a feat of its own), it simply is impossible to recall any given horse on any given setting, when pressed for details of the whole barn at that time. An outside entity would have to have been involved to get accurate data. The closest we could hope to achieve total recall, would be to screen past billings in the books to refresh the memory of the particular horse. Do we even have all the billings somewhere from years ago, outside of the pertinent tax info records going back only so many years? Unlikely-a waste of storage space.
Having said all that, we arrive here: Lukas aint no different, numbers wise, than the vast majority of us, in the breakdown department. I have had sheds full of the best bred out of the sales that year, and wound up with little at the end of the year. Then one comes out of the wintertime fog, and shows us all he wants to go a little. Aint no different in any other shed either. If it were so easy to "make" a champion, we would all be in on it. Sometimes, despite what we do with them, they go south, and sometimes, despite how foolish we may seem, the horse outruns our expectations.
In short, the horse makes us look good, we don't make them look good. We just do our jobs...........

[Edward DeVere]

Clever Czar.

[Hanover1]

Quigley Hanover-full brother to Hambo winner Ledgend Hanover. Set national seasons best when winning up in Poconos-never heard from again on national spotlight.
Lord of All-full brother to Hambo winner Speedy Somolli. Set national seasons mark at Lexingtons Red Mile, chased the best all year, could never prevail.
Both owned by John Gaines of Gainsway Farms, with 1 of them costing at the time, a record amount in the sales ring.
Shane T Hanover-out of a (first foal) workd champion, by a world champion, costing a (then record amount) pretty penny at sales ring. While amassing (barely his purchase price) a decent amount of cash during his tenure, he never won any classics. Nomination/sustaining fees ate up a bunch of this.........
Go easy here folks-I had all these horses............guess I am worse than Lukas? :rolleyes: