Weight in thoroughbred and harness..

[tzipi]

They mentioned it very briefly on TVG today but didn't know the answer why people don't care as much in harness. I always have wondered this too. A horse goes from a 155lb driver to a 180lb driver and nothing is mentioned. A horse shifts 20+lbs and it doesn't factor in? But a 2lb shift in thoroughbreds is always mentioned in anaylsis. I personally,have always looked at weight in thoroughbreds and harness. Any thoughts?

[MickJ26]

I've always wondered that as well.
My assumption is with the thoroughbred, the horse's back supports the weight of the jockey. With the standardbred, the horse's withers/shoulders area supports the weight of the driver.
Does the lighter driver have the advantage over the heavier driver or vice versa?
Do they mention the driver's weight in the past performances?

[tzipi]

I've always wondered that as well.
My assumption is with the thoroughbred, the horse's back supports the weight of the jockey. With the standardbred, the horse's withers/shoulders area supports the weight of the driver.
Does the lighter driver have the advantage over the heavier driver or vice versa?
Do they mention the driver's weight in the past performances?

Yeah they list weight but it's never a factor in analysis on tv or in the forms. Nor do I hear anyone at tracks mentioning it like they do in thoroughbreds. I mean a horse pulling a sulky weighing 25lbs less than anothers should be a factor. Or a horse dropping 25lbs or maybe more from his last race should make a difference,right?

[nearco]

It's a lot easier to pull weight than carry it. For example, miniature horses are often used to pull little carriages with fully grown people inside them.
http://blog.mlive.com/advancenewspapers_news/2008/05/medium_MiniatureHorse.jpg
http://www.dakotawindsfarm.com/images/BingerIPMBrowarnyshot.jpg
http://www.knysna-miniature-horses.co.za/images/miniature_horses_carriage02.jpg
There is no way the little horse would carry that same person on their back, at least not without hurting them.
I'm sure there is a point where weight makes a difference, as to what that point is I don't know. But, yes you'd think a difference of 30lbs ought to have at least the effect of a lb or two in a saddle.

[Trotman]

With the uplift bikes today and the distribution of weight, forget about it. Don't re-invent the wheel,the only time weight might be important is on a deep heavy or sloppy track.

[fmolf]

With the uplift bikes today and the distribution of weight, forget about it. Don't re-invent the wheel,the only time weight might be important is on a deep heavy or sloppy track.
a horse and will not put up the same time if he is suddenly given an extra 25 lbs to pull when he has been pulling the lower weight in his last ten races and vice a versa.Its a great angle if the horse is a contender to begin with.

[tzipi]

I was just looking back at Yonkers forms I still have. There was a horse with a 34lb swing. That's alot of weight no matter what the sulky does IMO. You see some of these drivers and they are thin and then some are heavy guys.

[Trotman]

If you believe the weight in the program so be it,every driver's weight is off by at least 10-15 lbs.

[tzipi]

If you believe the weight in the program so be it,every driver's weight is off by at least 10-15 lbs.

Oh I'm sure it is off. I don't see them weighing them. But these drivers come in different shapes and sizes. Weight shifts can be big with these guys.

[fmolf]

If you believe the weight in the program so be it,every driver's weight is off by at least 10-15 lbs.
How does one know this?Are you friendly with some drivers?

[Cratos]

They mentioned it very briefly on TVG today but didn't know the answer why people don't care as much in harness. I always have wondered this too. A horse goes from a 155lb driver to a 180lb driver and nothing is mentioned. A horse shifts 20+lbs and it doesn't factor in? But a 2lb shift in thoroughbreds is always mentioned in anaylsis. I personally,have always looked at weight in thoroughbreds and harness. Any thoughts?

I am not going into the physics of weight being pulled by the harness horse versus weight being toted by the thoroughbred, but it is useful to understand that in harness racing it is “weight on wheels.”

For those of you who don’t think that weight make a difference in a thoroughbred race performance I suggest that you do the kinetic energy calculation using various weight loads and the difference should become apparent to you.

[Trotman]

I do the programs for a certain circuit and the big joke is the program weight,most say they last saw that weight back when they we're in their teens,been in harness 40 years or so. ;)

[Cratos]

I do the programs for a certain circuit and the big joke is the program weight,most say they last saw that weight back when they we're in their teens,been in harness 40 years or so. ;)

Please relate that knowledge to the amount of weight not mattering on a thoroughbred’s back and differentiate it with harness racing. For the record, this calculation has been done many times with same or similar results by physicists.

[tzipi]

I do the programs for a certain circuit and the big joke is the program weight,most say they last saw that weight back when they we're in their teens,been in harness 40 years or so. ;)

I understand what you are saying with the false weight but the post is about weight in thoroughbred and harness. You can look at these drivers after they get off the sulkys and see the huge weight difference between them. I was just surprised that huge weight shifts are not really mentioned. Whether carrying or pulling weight,25-30lbs is alot of weight.

I remember during the Little Brown Jug two years,after the race one driver was talking to another. One was a short,thin young guy,the other was a little taller heavy older guy. I was like,wait that's alot more weight the other horse was carrying! That's not fair! :D

[Trotman]

I really can't speak on the physics but speaking with the folks at Brodeur Sulky their feeling is to negate the drivers weight through shaft bend,seat position and light weight materials. But I remember reading something Woody Stephens wrote saying in his opinion you need live weight in races, the lightest rider can be dead weight if he can't be insync with the animal.

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

Did you ever pull a wagon when you were a kid?
It could have 5 bricks in it,or 20 bricks in it.
Once you were in motion,at your cruising,or top speed,the difference in effort required to pull either weight was barely noticeable.

TTRAC

[Trotman]

A horse's energetic cost of locomotion (how much energy a horse must expend to move) is proportional to the WEIGHT ON HIS OR HER HOOVES. Increase that weight in T-breds a jockey, adding lbs, or horse gaining weight and you slow the horse,reduce that weight as the jockey makes weight or the horse has no added body fat and the horse goes faster. In Harness racing by changing the fulcrum point of the sulky by adding weight you actually increase the Negative Balance thus reducing the weight on the horses hooves. Years ago when Joe King introduced the single shaft sulky the negative balance was so great just by design any champion horse such as Muscles Yankee, Somebeachsomewhere or any other great horse if they we're to time trial in a Single Shaft sulky the record would be unreal for both gaits. :)