ep, lp, average last 3

[shoto1]

Hello,

I have been betting very successfully using as a starting point the ranking figures provided for each race from the Chorse.com site. They are a rank of such things like ep, lp, tp (total pace figure), beyer, drf, average total and average from last three starts.

The site has messed around with these figures now - I don't quite know what's happening with them and emails to customer service get ignored. Does anyone know anywhere where else these figures are obtainable? I specifically need ep, lp, average and ave last 3.

Having these figures ranked was the key - trolling through data and manually ranking these fiures for alot of races is not feasible.

All help very gratefully received.

[BIG HIT]

Don't know where you can get them.But there is a program that is fair priced that may help you called equisim at thoro tech racing.
It has many screen you find interesting plus a screen called same distance catgory that you can get the avg E1\E2\L\P\SPD.They have a demo for free if you want to check it out hpe this help's

[JustRalph]

One post...........touting some numbers......from a website.........nice try.....Luis, how is the weather down there?

[shoto1]

Originally posted by JustRalph
One post...........touting some numbers......from a website.........nice try.....Luis, how is the weather down there?

What does this mean? I've no idea who Luis is. My name is Glenn, I 'm in Australia, the weather here is OK. Are you able to help with my query??

[Suff]

Originally posted by shoto1
Hello,



Hello

Its common practice for people to tout WWW sites they have an interest in by using Multiple names. Ralph was refering to the fact that your a new member and you touted a WWW site. Sites can turn into nothing but disguised advertisements for Horse selections and software if Boardmembers don't do a Little "self-policing"

Members are cautious about Touting a Particular product or WWW site unless it comes out in the natural ebb and flow of a conversation.

I can't assist you with your particular question, but I'm confident many others can and will.

If your post was in fact genuine, Then welcome to the site and Good luck.

[shoto1]

Thanks for the welcome, I understand what you're saying. The post is genuine - and it's an unhappy criticism of the site mentioned. I need to find a source for the figures I mentioned.

Alternatively does anyone have a phone contact for Chorse - there's only the email contact given on the site and that's a waste of time.

[Pace Cap'n]

That was one of the first sites I ran across when I first got a computer three years ago. Spent a little time and money with it, but could never quite figure it out. It seems the key is to determine which of the factors work best for the particular race, which I never did. Otherwise, it's just information overload. And a program which you never get through paying for.

I did notice the factors you described sometimes read 1-2-3-4-5. I attributed that to lack of sufficient info to tabulate. What are the changes to which you refer?

Fffast may be interested to know that they use an adjusted Beyer. How else to explain a Beyer rating for first time starters?

As stated, I don't use it. My wife loves it. Not being deeply into the nuts & bolts of handicapping, she likes the ratings.
I have tried to argue her out of using it, but she hits just enough to keep her going.

Have e-mailed them, and always got a response, though it might take several days or more.

Spent some time in Australia on R&R many years ago. Loved it.

Good Luck, Mate
Steve

[shoto1]

I need to state that I have received a reply from Chorse. I don't want to upset the 'endorsement wary' here in the forum, but in light of my whingeing above I need to be fair.

I hope to get things sorted - we'll see. I have found some interesting uses for the data - but I won't go on about it here. There are fundamental differences between racing in the the US and Australia which has been a big hurdle and learning curve, but also in some ways a different perspective can lead to useful things.

As an observation, it is often easier to find better starting price value in Aus. The big advantage for me in US racing is the greater number of races available - lots more tracks!

Cheers,
Glenn

[PaceAdvantage]

This guy does appear to be from Australia, if that is any consolation to anyone....

Never heard of that website before....

[JustRalph]

I don't know who LUIS is either but it is the first time anybody ever came clean so fast...........

sorry I can't help you either........but drew you out a little.....

That site looks like a jumble of numbers, some seem to make sense and others don't ....congrats if you made any money with them......?

[Dick Schmidt]

Shoto1,

All the numbers you are referring to (except the Beyers) are from one or another Sartin Methodology program. All are "pace" numbers and most are from his "Phase III" program. The TPR numbers are also an outgrowth of Sartin. I helped invent the TPR numbers (well, I watched real closely while Tom Hambleton did it and brought him sandwiches). Anyway, there are a number of programs and websites that have "borrowed" these numbers, and you can find them in a number of places. The key to using them is keeping a model, so you know which are working at what track and distance.

By far the best source of information on them is Tom Brohamer's book, Modern Pace Handicapping, especially if you want to understand how all the numbers are constructed. The only program available that correctly calculates TPR is Bob Purdy's Synergism, which also produces and ranks the horses by AP, EP, SP and a couple of dozen other rankings. It keeps a model for you as well.

MPH is available at most bookstores online for $25 or $30 (U.S.), and Synergism (the program is free, data costs about $130 a month) can be found on www.synergism-sdp.com. Hope this helps get you going again.

Dick

P.S. Special offer for Aussies only. If you'd like to read THE book on Total Pace, (Pace Makes the Race) I'll send you a free copy if you pay for shipping (about $10 US). Always liked Australians.

[Tom]

I was never able to get thiese things to grow - must've added too much water?????

Checked out this site tonight....the price is right - $1.00 for all tracks - 5-7 everyday?
The reports are hard to read, but they offer a printabe version.
From looking at about 10-12 races, the sheets are a good contender selector if nothing else. For the price, I will give it a try for a couple days and see how it does, in conjunction with the form.
Nice links they offer, too...video (sore subject ) and other sites.
I always liked handicapping with total pace numbers, or qirin pace/speed numbers. They give me simple look at who is early and who is late, and who is right in there evenly.
Doc Sartin used to say that his more advanced programs were like a juggler with 8-10 balls in the air at once, but using TPR was for those not ready to juggle that much. So, if you don't have the balls, TPR is a good tool! (Sorry, Dick, I couldn't resist)

BTW....Dick's offer for the book is a good one - that book has a lot to offer aside from the figures.

[Zaf]

Tom,

Is it a pay as you go deal ? Or is there a minimum ?

I'm interested to hear your opinions.

ZAFONIC

[cj]

There is an older woman who hangs out at the Cheyenne OTB that seems to do pretty good with these. I know she was always pretty tough in the monthly handicapping contest. At least I think it's what she used...maybe teeitup can tell us for sure!

CJ

[Pace Cap'n]

It is $1.00 per track per day, pay as you go. Credit card billed once a month. No minimum.

One thing I like about it...the results are usually up 4-5 hours after the races, broken down by all the various factors. All results may be viewed for free.

[Zaf]

Sounds like a very decent deal.

ZAFONIC

[JustRalph]

Question: When does it stop?

I have purposely stayed away from the Sartin methodology because I already have too much of this crap in my head now. "I do pretty well with what I already use" Therein lies the rub. I hear that on this board all the time. I hear about other people who do well with certain systems etc. I am wondering how we quantify "Doing Well" I can learn any new method I want but I wonder if the effort would be worth it If I read something new. I got half way through modern pace handicapping and put it back on the shelf for another day. I go over to the website mentioned here, and I don't want to try and learn a new method to read the numbers. or maybe more accurately "use them" Most of the people in here say they make their own numbers. Maybe a better question is: How many methods can you employ on one race? Do you guys all have a favorite method or are you doing multiple things? Do you start with the Sartin Stuff or do you apply Sartin theories after doing something else? I am just wondering where you get all the time? I am wondering where do you stop or reach what you think is an appropriate set of tools for "You" as an individual. I know this is more a philosophical question that has to be answered internally, but I am interested in some thoughts. I can only tell you that I learned to handicap from my old man by using the DRF stuff and did ok with just those methods. They were tried and true things passed down from my Dad. Then I incorporated some computer modeling ( I tried 3-4 diff. programs) and my winning percentage tripled (at least in dollars) once I settled on a program that seemed to work with me and not against me. Matching the two things seemed to pay off nicely. But after only playing about 2.5 years I am wondering should I stop here or maybe go ahead and look at some of these other methods?

[shoto1]

It's better than that - $1/day for all tracks. There's a few things gone amiss with the rankings at the end of each race, but they are addressing that.

[shoto1]

Originally posted by Dick Schmidt
Shoto1,

Always liked Australians.

Can't fault your judgement there, Dick. I've had a look at the link - very interesting. Thanks for your offer - it's a good one. Where do I send the shipping fee to? Thanks to y'all! ;) :)