View Full Version : Is the 'bad economy' an acceptable excuse for racing's ills?
Stillriledup
12-12-2009, 08:38 AM
Should we cut the racing industry some slack for a bad economy, or should we hold them to a higher standard?
I want to hold them to a higher standard.
Here's why i want to hold them to a higher standard. I'm holding them to a higher standard because being a customer of a racetrack should be 'more' than it is. When i go shopping at a department store like Nordstroms or Macys or Crate and Barrel, i have a pleasant, young, sometimes attractive person come up to me and greet me with a big smile and ask "is there anything i can help you with?" To that, i usually answer, "No, i'm just brousing, thanks" They usually reply, "ok, just give me a hollar if you need any help".
Have you ever had someone inside a racetrack smile at you and ask if everything is ok? :lol:
If i saw the racing industry and racetracks doing EVERYTHING in their power to coddle the customer, i'd be more forgiving of their bad economy excuse. I don't see any 'effort' in any other areas, all i see is excuses.
Go to any racetrack in the country and most of these tracks have very old people working the betting machines, food stands, etc. They rarely smile, most look at you as if you are a nuisance, they don't know a single thing about the product and don't even know who to ask if you have a question.
Think about this, if you wanted to buy a gadget from Bed, Bath and Beyond, there would be someone there to explain the item to you if you had a question. It would take 2 seconds for you to flag down an employee and say "i have a question about this thigamagig, can you help me"
In racing, there's not a single person who knows 'the game' well enough who is employed by the racetracks for a beginner to ask. That's pretty intimidating.
Have you ever seen a GM of a track walking the lower floor and talking to his customers? "Hi, my name is mr general manager, thanks for coming to my racetrack, here's my card, if you ever have a question about our product, please don't hesitate to give me a call or drop me an e mail. I appreciate you coming to visit us"
I've been to restaurants where the chef came by the table and asked if everything was cooked to our liking. This type of customer service at racetracks is non existant. This is why i'm not going to just accept the 'bad economy' excuse.
Horseplayersbet.com
12-12-2009, 09:25 AM
Should we cut the racing industry some slack for a bad economy, or should we hold them to a higher standard?
I want to hold them to a higher standard.
Here's why i want to hold them to a higher standard. I'm holding them to a higher standard because being a customer of a racetrack should be 'more' than it is. When i go shopping at a department store like Nordstroms or Macys or Crate and Barrel, i have a pleasant, young, sometimes attractive person come up to me and greet me with a big smile and ask "is there anything i can help you with?" To that, i usually answer, "No, i'm just brousing, thanks" They usually reply, "ok, just give me a hollar if you need any help".
Have you ever had someone inside a racetrack smile at you and ask if everything is ok? :lol:
If i saw the racing industry and racetracks doing EVERYTHING in their power to coddle the customer, i'd be more forgiving of their bad economy excuse. I don't see any 'effort' in any other areas, all i see is excuses.
Go to any racetrack in the country and most of these tracks have very old people working the betting machines, food stands, etc. They rarely smile, most look at you as if you are a nuisance, they don't know a single thing about the product and don't even know who to ask if you have a question.
Think about this, if you wanted to buy a gadget from Bed, Bath and Beyond, there would be someone there to explain the item to you if you had a question. It would take 2 seconds for you to flag down an employee and say "i have a question about this thigamagig, can you help me"
In racing, there's not a single person who knows 'the game' well enough who is employed by the racetracks for a beginner to ask. That's pretty intimidating.
Have you ever seen a GM of a track walking the lower floor and talking to his customers? "Hi, my name is mr general manager, thanks for coming to my racetrack, here's my card, if you ever have a question about our product, please don't hesitate to give me a call or drop me an e mail. I appreciate you coming to visit us"
I've been to restaurants where the chef came by the table and asked if everything was cooked to our liking. This type of customer service at racetracks is non existant. This is why i'm not going to just accept the 'bad economy' excuse.
I don't accept it because the trend was flat when the economy was moving. The economy might be responsible for a small decline, but the overall trend is very telling.
DJofSD
12-12-2009, 09:44 AM
I don't accept the reason one bit. If anything, the bad economy has revealed the poor practises and bad business decisions from the past.
rwwupl
12-12-2009, 09:44 AM
I don't accept it because the trend was flat when the economy was moving. The economy might be responsible for a small decline, but the overall trend is very telling.
In yesterday years when the economy was bad, horseracing did well. When people were out of work, they would stop by the track after looking for a job.
One old saying I remember was " bet Hubert Trent and pay the rent" :)
illinoisbred
12-12-2009, 10:10 AM
I think Arlington had some huge attendance days during the Great Depression.
Horseplayersbet.com
12-12-2009, 10:25 AM
In yesterday years when the economy was bad, horseracing did well. When people were out of work, they would stop by the track after looking for a job.
One old saying I remember was " bet Hubert Trent and pay the rent" :)
It was the only game in town, and it was very popular in the 30's and 40's. Many Hollywood movies made reference to racetracks back then, and there were many racetrack themed movies as well.
The economy has an enormous impact on the owners / breeders etc who provide the show. This in turn impacts the volume / quality of product…that impacts handle and so on and so on. If every conceivable business was thriving and thoroughbred racing was in a sharp decline it would be far more alarming then simply following a regional trend.
BTW: I can’t argue with Stillriledup’s post on most trk management making the facility about as inviting as a dentist chair. I believe Sam Houston has set-up a “newbie” room that shows them the ropes without getting screamed at 1 minute to post because Muttonchops might get shut out.
lamboguy
12-12-2009, 11:03 AM
in the late 60's rockingham park had 30,000 people there on a saturday afternoon, for harness they had 20,000 on a friday night, then the implosion of the racing game came, not the bad economy.
keithw84
12-12-2009, 11:11 AM
Which tracks have been doing really poorly and which ones have been faring better lately?
johnhannibalsmith
12-12-2009, 11:45 AM
This is a good topic.
A poor economy is yet another convenient excuse for an industry that absolutely refuses to admit its shortcomings. It is seemingly always failing because of some external influence.
DanG is absolutely correct about where the impact is felt and the chain reaction that follows, but part of that problem stems from the way the industry has attempted to appeal to owners.
I still find the double-edged sword of encouraging short-term 'negative investors', people looking for a loss against profits from their primary revenue source in life, at the expense of smaller, more long-term owners as a catch-22-esque problem. It seems a number of these large owners that needed a write-off during the good times don't have the same use for the sport in bad times.
That alone wouldn't be a terrible injustice, but unfortunately for many small owners that might have survived a downtick or even recession, many have given up attempting to compete with owners compelled to succeed by intentionally showing losses. The lack of a comittment to the industry beyond the tax ramifications is (ultimately) unhealthy and the industry has done very little to maximize the real benefit of the tax incentives and try to retain these new owners in the event of 'Ps' becoming 'Ls'.
Horseplayersbet.com
12-12-2009, 11:56 AM
The quality of horses haven't gone down, just their price tag.
BillW
12-12-2009, 12:26 PM
I believe Sam Houston has set-up a “newbie” room that shows them the ropes without getting screamed at 1 minute to post because Muttonchops might get shut out.
They had one for quite a few years right at the South entrance where everybody could see it when they walked in the door. A few years ago they replaced that with a group sales rep and moved the fan education area to the trackside North end (where a new person would have to know it was there and have to ask where to find it). :ThmbDown:
I haven't been up there this meet so they may have seen the light and moved it back out of the corner and corrected a very bad mistake IMO.
DeanT
12-12-2009, 01:15 PM
I think we've been down for successive years now, as others have pointed out. Since 1998 if we would have held GDP growth, racing would have about a $19B yearly handle. This year it is projected to be $12.3B. Huge decrease, and that is in terms which already reflect the economy.
One thing that tracks do not seem to grasp (that we do as bettors) is that there is a critical mass of money that plays the game to make it worthwhile for us. When that critical mass (or tipping point) is hit, handle losses can snowball. An example of this might be a place like Charles Town. If handle is $1M a day there is enough cash to make it enjoyable. If that drops to $750,000 a pile of money can go poof like that. We have seen this happen in harness racing. $600k handle tracks have gone to 150k handle tracks in what seems like a fortnight.
The Hawk
12-12-2009, 03:40 PM
Which tracks have been doing really poorly and which ones have been faring better lately?
I think Monmouth was up this year, and one or two other tracks were. I also think that the tracks that were up were all dirt tracks.
DeanT
12-12-2009, 03:44 PM
I am not sure of the list for 2009, and I dont even know how to figure out who is doing good or bad.
Here are a few (and some of the reasons given)
Gulfstream was up. Field size was up by 1.0 or so.
OPX was up. field size was also up.
Woodbine was up. Distribution seems to be the reason.
Churchill was down. Not sure why.
Ellis and Turfway both down.
KEE was up. Not sure why.
DMR was flat, or around flat, but it is hard to figure out their numbers.
Saratoga was about flat. But they had a horrid year last year, so hard to say either way.
Belmont got killed - down by something like 18%. Distribution problems maybe?
HAW was down - field size problems.
I dont remember any others off the top of my head.
Tracks get what they deserve - those that are doing good have shown customers respect. Those that area failing deserve to - most tracks go out of their way to insult their customers. The economy is no excuse for race tracks being incompetent. There is an epidemic of it out there.
Funny, I don't see many complaints about harness tracks. Maybe the adults come out at night.
tzipi
12-12-2009, 03:50 PM
Should we cut the racing industry some slack for a bad economy, or should we hold them to a higher standard?
I want to hold them to a higher standard.
Here's why i want to hold them to a higher standard. I'm holding them to a higher standard because being a customer of a racetrack should be 'more' than it is. When i go shopping at a department store like Nordstroms or Macys or Crate and Barrel, i have a pleasant, young, sometimes attractive person come up to me and greet me with a big smile and ask "is there anything i can help you with?" To that, i usually answer, "No, i'm just brousing, thanks" They usually reply, "ok, just give me a hollar if you need any help".
Have you ever had someone inside a racetrack smile at you and ask if everything is ok? :lol:
If i saw the racing industry and racetracks doing EVERYTHING in their power to coddle the customer, i'd be more forgiving of their bad economy excuse. I don't see any 'effort' in any other areas, all i see is excuses.
Go to any racetrack in the country and most of these tracks have very old people working the betting machines, food stands, etc. They rarely smile, most look at you as if you are a nuisance, they don't know a single thing about the product and don't even know who to ask if you have a question.
Think about this, if you wanted to buy a gadget from Bed, Bath and Beyond, there would be someone there to explain the item to you if you had a question. It would take 2 seconds for you to flag down an employee and say "i have a question about this thigamagig, can you help me"
In racing, there's not a single person who knows 'the game' well enough who is employed by the racetracks for a beginner to ask. That's pretty intimidating.
Have you ever seen a GM of a track walking the lower floor and talking to his customers? "Hi, my name is mr general manager, thanks for coming to my racetrack, here's my card, if you ever have a question about our product, please don't hesitate to give me a call or drop me an e mail. I appreciate you coming to visit us"
I've been to restaurants where the chef came by the table and asked if everything was cooked to our liking. This type of customer service at racetracks is non existant. This is why i'm not going to just accept the 'bad economy' excuse.
Track attendance and handle was in decline way before economy went bad. Their just scared because it's gotten worse and fans have finally gotten fed up I think. They let it go for way too long.
saratoga guy
12-12-2009, 05:01 PM
Certainly, racing was on a negative trend before the economy went south last year -- but to think that national and global financial events of the past fourteen months haven't added to the problem is just silly.
Sure, customer service and a host of other problems need to be addressed by the industry -- but the economy is making things look worse than they are right now.
Heck, we always point to the casino industry as being more customer-friendly than racing -- and casinos are doing a lot worse this year.
Horseplayersbet.com
12-12-2009, 06:21 PM
Tracks that raised their takeout recently got slammed this year (exception Saratoga).
Calder, Laurel, Belmont, and Aqueduct, and Pimlico are all down in the high teens.
Woodbine did drop takeout on triactors 1.3%, and that had to help a little with the domestic players by putting a few extra dollars back into churn.
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