Who is your favorite 'sneaky' sire?

[Stillriledup]

Tell me a sire you think is underrated and is a sire you love to back his offspring at the windows?

My sneaky sire is Reddatore (IRE). I've seen a couple of cheapies sired by him that look nice and seem to be better on the stretchout. He's probably not getting any good mares, but he seems to be able to sire horses who are 'lookers' anyway.

[Spalding No!]

Tell me a sire you think is underrated and is a sire you love to back his offspring at the windows?

My sneaky sire is Reddatore (IRE). I've seen a couple of cheapies sired by him that look nice and seem to be better on the stretchout. He's probably not getting any good mares, but he seems to be able to sire horses who are 'lookers' anyway.

Redattore was from Brazil.

I don't know about his conformation, but just in terms of "looks" he was one of the best looking horses around when he was running.

[bisket]

there's a few that i've had some luck with. the best would have to be citidancer. he was a son of northern dancer. he had a very low sperm count so when breeders would send mares to him it was only a 50% chance a foal would be produced. in spight of this citidancer still had a line outside his barn. he produced some very good allowance and small stakes runners. most of his offspring can run on dirt or turf just as well. this is tough to find, and you can really get some good odds on his offspring in off the turf races and cash. citi has been retired though. one of citi's best sons was disco rico. i hit a stakes race 2 springs back at oaklawn on one of disco rico's sons at 19-1. disco rico may be the one to keep the line going.
another good angle i use is broodmares from broad brush. most times bettors are all over sires, but disregard the moms. broad brush has turned out to be a very succesful broodmare sire. of course broad brush's son concern won the classic some years back. you'd be suprised how many good solid turf horses and dirt routers come from a broad brush mares.

[tribecaagent]

there's a few that i've had some luck with. the best would have to be citidancer. he was a son of northern dancer. he had a very low sperm count so when breeders would send mares to him it was only a 50% chance a foal would be produced. in spight of this citidancer still had a line outside his barn. he produced some very good allowance and small stakes runners. most of his offspring can run on dirt or turf just as well. this is tough to find, and you can really get some good odds on his offspring in off the turf races and cash. citi has been retired though. one of citi's best sons was disco rico. i hit a stakes race 2 springs back at oaklawn on one of disco rico's sons at 19-1. disco rico may be the one to keep the line going.
another good angle i use is broodmares from broad brush. most times bettors are all over sires, but disregard the moms. broad brush has turned out to be a very succesful broodmare sire. of course broad brush's son concern won the classic some years back. you'd be suprised how many good solid turf horses and dirt routers come from a broad brush mares.

This was a very nice post bisket. Bravo. I'm with you on Cititdancer, Disco Rico, and the Broad Brush mares.

As far as underated stallions for me; Repent (5k fee), Kafwain (5k fee), and Whywhywhy (5k fee) are all third crop stallions that I would have no problem sending my mares to see.

As far as my favorite sire line at the windows; Deputy Minister. Awesome Again, Dehere, Ministers Wild Cat, Salt Lake, Touch Gold, Forest Camp, French Deputy, etc. High quality that can run anywhere and anytime.

[Paseana]

you'd be suprised how many good solid turf horses and dirt routers come from a broad brush mares.

biskit, the fairly recent one that comes to mind is Dreaming Of Anna. I loved that filly.

Of course, she was sired by Rahy, which certainly didn't hurt! ;)

[Stillriledup]

Redattore was from Brazil.

I don't know about his conformation, but just in terms of "looks" he was one of the best looking horses around when he was running.


Thanks for the correction. I knew there was a country after his name!

[Bochall]

Crowd Pleaser(AP Indy) was a nice little turf sire in Md but died young.

And ofcourse Freud on turf in NY but he's getting recognition these days so the prices arent as good.

[barn11]

there's a few that i've had some luck with. the best would have to be citidancer. he was a son of northern dancer. he had a very low sperm count so when breeders would send mares to him it was only a 50% chance a foal would be produced. in spight of this citidancer still had a line outside his barn. he produced some very good allowance and small stakes runners. most of his offspring can run on dirt or turf just as well. this is tough to find, and you can really get some good odds on his offspring in off the turf races and cash. citi has been retired though. one of citi's best sons was disco rico. i hit a stakes race 2 springs back at oaklawn on one of disco rico's sons at 19-1. disco rico may be the one to keep the line going.
another good angle i use is broodmares from broad brush. most times bettors are all over sires, but disregard the moms. broad brush has turned out to be a very succesful broodmare sire. of course broad brush's son concern won the classic some years back. you'd be suprised how many good solid turf horses and dirt routers come from a broad brush mares.

Earlier this year I was telling someone how much I disliked Mojave Moon as a sire and a few days later got a note "rubbing my nose" in the fact that Sumachahot upset the Md Million Classic. Looked up his pedigree and wrote back that he was out of a Broad Brush mare-must have been an immaculate conception. Richard's Kid also out of Broad Brush mare.

I bred Urbane from Citidancer's first crop, so also agree on him. They could be very precocious. Anything carrying Carson City is worth a bet first time. Beware of being suckered in by a good looking Forestry. Doesn't necesarily mean they can run. More Than Ready first on turf is always worth a look

[JBmadera]

I loved Vice Regent both as a race horse and a sire - esp on the turf.

jb

[ManeMediaMogul]

More Than Ready...Barn 11 mentioned him on the turf and he is great there but he also has a lot of dirt winners. He is a very solid sire.

Mizzen Mast on the turf is another sneaky play.

This year, Kitten's Joy was sneaky for a while but the cheese is off the Coney now.

[TheStageIsSet]

More Than Ready...Barn 11 mentioned him on the turf and he is great there but he also has a lot of dirt winners. He is a very solid sire.

Mizzen Mast on the turf is another sneaky play.

This year, Kitten's Joy was sneaky for a while but the cheese is off the Coney now.
Stormy Atlantic,

[lamboguy]

I loved Vice Regent both as a race horse and a sire - esp on the turf.

jbnow we are talking, throw in a few VALLID APPEAL mares and we can really put on a show

[JBmadera]

now we are talking, throw in a few VALLID APPEAL mares and we can really put on a show

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[bisket]

Earlier this year I was telling someone how much I disliked Mojave Moon as a sire and a few days later got a note "rubbing my nose" in the fact that Sumachahot upset the Md Million Classic. Looked up his pedigree and wrote back that he was out of a Broad Brush mare-must have been an immaculate conception. Richard's Kid also out of Broad Brush mare.

I bred Urbane from Citidancer's first crop, so also agree on him. They could be very precocious. Anything carrying Carson City is worth a bet first time. Beware of being suckered in by a good looking Forestry. Doesn't necesarily mean they can run. More Than Ready first on turf is always worth a look
i was at the md million with my wife and one of my sons. i missed the boat on sumacha in that race. sumacha was entered earlier in the card, and i intended to bet him in that race. well he was scratched to run in the classic. there was a really nice filly in the 10 hole in the classic that i liked, and i just disregarded sumacha in the classic mainly for class reasons. well i neglected to take into consideration that the classic was 1 1/8 mile race on a 1 1/8 mile track. they broke from the gate practically right on the first turn, and the filly had some nice early speed. well to not get stuck wide on the turn the filly sprung from the gate and set a good fast early pace. which set the race up for sumacha's late run. so the horse i liked set the race up for the horse i tossed :bang: :bang: . if i remember correctly 2 or 3 winners from the md million card were out of broad brush mares :ThmbUp:
your quote:
I bred Urbane from Citidancer's first crop, so also agree on him. They could be very precocious
yes citi's prodgeny definately were northern dancer types with that classy speed, but its tough to harness.

[bisket]

biskit, the fairly recent one that comes to mind is Dreaming Of Anna. I loved that filly.

Of course, she was sired by Rahy, which certainly didn't hurt! ;)
she was a winner on both turf and dirt. which is typical for this line. this is why i think this line will prove to be a good polytrack line also :ThmbUp:

[Saratoga_Mike]

now we are talking, throw in a few VALLID APPEAL mares and we can really put on a show

Those Valid Appeal mares always seemed to produce runners. There used to be a ton of their offspring at OBS, not sure if that's true anymore.

[big frank]

I like 2 that are under the radar.. Chapel Royal @ Value Plus ,,, both are new sires and i think they will do very well in the future

[Stillriledup]

Freud and Bluegrass Cat.
Not sure how "sneaky" they are, but those are 2 who come to mind.

[Bennie]

Quiet American for off-track races. First thing I look for when tracks come up wet or off-turf. Not a high % winner but have caught some nice prices. Especially useful when I have no program, no DRf and am playing from home.

[letswastemoney]

Quiet American for off-track races. First thing I look for when tracks come up wet or off-turf. Not a high % winner but have caught some nice prices. Especially useful when I have no program, no DRf and am playing from home.
Every Quiet American race has free BRIS past performances, if that helps.
Quiet American PPs (http://horseracing.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=horseracing&cdn=sports&tm=8050&f=22&su=p284.13.342.ip_p504.6.342.ip_&tt=2&bt=6&bts=71&zu=http%3A//www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/briswatch.cgi/Darley/sire_summary.htm)

[FantasticDan]

I'm usually a sucker for any Langfuhr. :ThmbUp:

[TheEdge07]

Stormy Atlantic,Put It Back

[Tall One]

Mizzen Mast on the turf is another sneaky play.





+1..bet firster Mizzen Moon in 3rd at Keeneland this past Saturday on the poly. Balked at the gate, but shot outta there like a bullet, led to mid-stretch and faded (like mine always seem to do). Brad Cox is a good trainer on the poly, but worth a look 2nd time out if they put her on the lawn...IMO.

[iceknight]

you guys gotta be kidding to call Stormy Atlantic to be a underrated sire.. may not be overrated. but always get due respect at the betting pools imo

[CincyHorseplayer]

I have no statistical backing for this but an obscure sire that has runners in Ohio that do well is Pacific Waves.High early speed.Good prices.

I'm new to pedigree so I have enjoyed reading this thread.Thanks!

I can't add much in the way of sires but I can from my research on families.Does it help that 58% of the Kentucky Derby winners over the last 24 years come from Mr Prospector descendants?Or 70% of the Belmont winners in 20 years?Or that 50% of the Belmont winners are from Northern Dancer descendants?And only 4 female families of Derby winners constitute the last 15 years of winners?Or add that with a combined stamina ranking have won 11 of 12 races comprising the Triple Crown/Travers over the last 3 years?

There's some good things brewing when noticing pedigree!

[Shemp Howard]

Frost Giant - First foals have been dominating in NY while winning at a 34% clip and taking home $16,231 each time they step into the starting gate.

[horses4courses]

I've cashed some nice tickets on Go For Gin progeny on turf - especially soft turf

[alhattab]

Arch- going 2 turns on wet dirt tracks is automatic for me

Muttakdim- short on the grass, although I haven't seen much of him lately.

Anything from the In Reality line, including Valid Appeal, going short on wet tracks

[CincyHorseplayer]

Have to alter my last post.4 female families have won 80% of the last 15 Kentucky Derbies.50% of the female line descendants of Northern Dancer have won the Belmont in 20 years.

[PoloUK6108]

Sires I consider "sneaky" - E Dubai, Five Star Day, Cryptoclearance

Sires I just love to see - Giant's Causeway, More Than Ready, Tiznow and Deputy Minister