Philly Park Surges Past Aqueduct

[samyn on the green]

Philly Park Purse Surge (http://gregcalabrese.blogspot.com/2009/12/philly-park-purse-surge.html)

$5 for a large pizza, $1.20 for a pack of smokes and less than $500 a month for a nice one bedroom. The numbers are my fondest memories of my time in Philadelphia. Cheap living in an honest working class city. At that time the racing world had an even larger chasm between New York and Philly. Philly Park was barely holding on at the bottom of the racing class ladder while NYRA was the king of the new world. Ten years later and it looks like the roles have reversed. In a huge coup that nobody has even noticed New York is now the backwater with Philly presenting the better purses and potentially the better product.

Purse Comparison

Condition Philly park purse (http://www.philadelphiapark.com/Racetrack/horsemen.php) Aqueduct purse (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorsemenAreaDownload.cfm?track=AQU&area=USA&STYLE=AQU)
Maiden 12K $22K $19K
MSW 1 Mile $44K $44K
CLM 7.5K $22K $16
CLM 25K $36K $24K
CLM35K $39 $38
STK $75K $65K

[the_fat_man]

I don't know where you're coming from, BRO, :rolleyes:

but the NYRA supporters (which, not coincidently, are also the DRFites, and thus the BEYERites, you know, the connoisseurs of FAST horses ) would have you know that NYRA racing (and this, thus, includes, AQU) is the best there is. Hands down, the BEST DIRT RACING in the country. :lol::lol:

What a bunch of CLOWNS. :D

[rrbauer]

Yeah, but wait until they get slots at the Big A. (Real soon now!)

Once they pay down what they owe everyone and dig NYC OTB out of the crapper they will have money to ???burn???

[tzipi]

I don't know where you're coming from, BRO, :rolleyes:

but the NYRA supporters (which, not coincidently, are also the DRFites, and thus the BEYERites, you know, the connoisseurs of FAST horses ) would have you know that NYRA racing (and this, thus, includes, AQU) is the best there is. Hands down, the BEST DIRT RACING in the country. :lol::lol:

What a bunch of CLOWNS. :D

I agree,it is far from best dirt racing in the winter. Would be nice to get that place back to what it used to be. The place is just rundown and no one goes there. Shame.

The company coming in wants the land and track for a casino. They don't want the failing horses. Alot of racinos don't. Slot players are not going to all of a sudden start spending their money on horses IMO. As stated before by insiders,racinos will try and discontinue the failing horse tracks and expand their MONEYMAKING casinos.

[cj]

Well, isn't it obvious the purses are up because of slots money? Even Ray Charles can see that. Surely these purses at Philly aren't driven by increased handle.

I'm not saying that Philly might not offer a better product some day. They already do at certain levels which is why New York is struggling. There are pretty much no decent claimers left in New York on dirt. This has been going on for years. Why do you think there are now turf sprints and so many NY bred races? They do what they must to fill races.

What happens when New York gets slots if they ever actually get them up and running? Don't you think the purse situation will change?

At the top levels, NYRA still is the best dirt racing, but they suffer at the cheaper levels. There is no doubt about it. It is the slot money. What this has to do with DRF or Beyer I have no idea. TFM never misses a chance to swoop in and redirect to his favorite targets, DRF, NYRA, and Beyer in no particular order.

[the_fat_man]

TFM never misses a chance to swoop in and redirect to his favorite targets, DRF, NYRA, and Beyer in no particular order.

These are all related. BEYER is against POLY. NYRA is against using their turf courses. Their racing secretary is against variety in the terms of distance. Together, they've managed to **** UP what once was the best place for racing in, arguably, the world.

I couldn't help thinking, when I was looking over what was a loaded field for last week's Hollywood Derby, that these type of races were TYPICAL for BEL in the summer (let alone SAR). WTF has happened to racing in NY in the past few years? They go out of their way to take races off the turf. Which means that, after a while, connections get tired of this shit and look elsewhere. NYRA figures this is 1980, and there are no better options for them, while in fact there are MANY options, other than just lumping it. So NYRA proceeds as if they're still the only game in town, rather than adapting. WTF are we saving the turf courses for?

NYRA is banking on all the NYRA/DRF/BEYER DIEHARD MISFITS over at Derby Trail keeping them going in terms of revenue. :bang::bang::bang: Now, that's funny shit.

All I can say is THANK GOD FOR WOODBINE. At least there's ONE TRACK around that actually does things right.

[Valuist]

Doesn't Woodbine have among the highest takeout in North America? I know I've heard their management has tried rationalizing it but there is none.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Doesn't Woodbine have among the highest takeout in North America? I know I've heard their management has tried rationalizing it but there is none.
It is a sad correlation. What you find is tracks that have slots tend to have the highest takeouts. Woodbine, Philly, Penn have takeouts of 27,30, and 31 respectively for triactors.

Keeneland has the lowest takeouts in North America, and they don't have slots.

[Doc]

Just remember, the politicians in Pa. have stuck their hands in the slots money cookie jar. Over the next couple of years, they will be siphoning off slots revenue to balance the budget, which will affect purses and the breeding fund. They might even take more money, depending on how much they need. Lots of lawmakers don't feel that horse racing should be subsidized so heavily. Maybe Philly's winter product this year might be a tad better than Aqueduct's, but doubt it will ever surpass NYRA in any other season. Besides, it's bush-league in just about every way.

[therussmeister]

Doesn't Woodbine have among the highest takeout in North America? I know I've heard their management has tried rationalizing it but there is none.

I believe in Canada there is a Federal parimutual tax along with a Provincial tax, and that is why they are so high. Compensated, for Canadians, by no income tax on gambling winnings.

[onefast99]

Just remember, the politicians in Pa. have stuck their hands in the slots money cookie jar. Over the next couple of years, they will be siphoning off slots revenue to balance the budget, which will affect purses and the breeding fund. They might even take more money, depending on how much they need. Lots of lawmakers don't feel that horse racing should be subsidized so heavily. Maybe Philly's winter product this year might be a tad better than Aqueduct's, but doubt it will ever surpass NYRA in any other season. Besides, it's bush-league in just about every way.
Doc you are the best! How about the fact that table games arrive in April and the purses may see another increase(not a guarantee). The new casino opens in a few days and PP is banking on larger crowds and more handle. Right now PP is in a perfect spot they can pretty much put some distance between them and NJ and NY by luring in better trainers and horses, at least for the time NJ is not racing thoroughbreds and NY is racing at Aqueduct. I only see positives for PP in the near future and hopefully you will see that also.

[JohnGalt1]

I believe in Canada there is a Federal parimutual tax along with a Provincial tax, and that is why they are so high. Compensated, for Canadians, by no income tax on gambling winnings.


I wish the U.S. would do this.

No W-2Gs, no keeping a log for tax purposes, no saving losing mutual tickets.

And a percentage each dollar bet is already taxed up front.

[Doc]

Doc you are the best! How about the fact that table games arrive in April and the purses may see another increase(not a guarantee). The new casino opens in a few days and PP is banking on larger crowds and more handle. Right now PP is in a perfect spot they can pretty much put some distance between them and NJ and NY by luring in better trainers and horses, at least for the time NJ is not racing thoroughbreds and NY is racing at Aqueduct. I only see positives for PP in the near future and hopefully you will see that also.

The horse racing industry will get ZERO from table games. All table games will do is siphon off money from slots. Stroll into Mike Ballezzi's office and ask him.

This is widely available information; Google "Pennsylvania table games" and you will get a lot of information.

[lamboguy]

Well, isn't it obvious the purses are up because of slots money? Even Ray Charles can see that. Surely these purses at Philly aren't driven by increased handle.

I'm not saying that Philly might not offer a better product some day. They already do at certain levels which is why New York is struggling. There are pretty much no decent claimers left in New York on dirt. This has been going on for years. Why do you think there are now turf sprints and so many NY bred races? They do what they must to fill races.

What happens when New York gets slots if they ever actually get them up and running? Don't you think the purse situation will change?

At the top levels, NYRA still is the best dirt racing, but they suffer at the cheaper levels. There is no doubt about it. It is the slot money. What this has to do with DRF or Beyer I have no idea. TFM never misses a chance to swoop in and redirect to his favorite targets, DRF, NYRA, and Beyer in no particular order.a maiden $40k in Philly is tougher than the same as in new york. the way that the races are structured at Philly due to nw2 starters the maiden $25k comes up tougher than the maiden $40k occasionaly. the new york conditioned tag races this time of year are real weak. years ago there was no such thing as a condition claiming race in new york.. i still think that the GULFSRTEAM races are still going to be better than PHILLY, florida is selling weather this time of the year, Philly might have the slots but they certainly don't have the weather!

[Tom]

Anyone know the name of TFM's book?
He must have at lest one in print, I mean, the guy is a friggin' genius....puts Andy to shame.

Just ask him. :rolleyes:

Talk about clowns! It would hard to fill HIS shoes! :lol:

[lamboguy]

I wish the U.S. would do this.

No W-2Gs, no keeping a log for tax purposes, no saving losing mutual tickets.

And a percentage each dollar bet is already taxed up front.i got to like that idea in a big way. it would help racing handles. its a no lose deal from both sides, the government would not have to spend money chasing down guys that don't report their gambling winnings. it would help the guy that gambles from becoming a record keeper in order to bet. on balance it would add revenue to the government with higher handles.

[samyn on the green]

Good point about the takeout. A track like Philly Park that has generous slot purses, an improved class of races should be growing market share in the parimutuel market. Yet they remain far far behind NYRA in handle.

What has Philly done to increase market share? The truth is that they have done absolutely nothing to lure horseplayers into following their track. Philly has a window of opportunity here to surge past NYRA. They have the horses, the purses and the momentum. The perfect compliment to this threesome would be the horseplayers. Lowering takeout could be the catalyst that starts the migration of horseplayers away from beleaguered NYRA to slot rich Pennsylvania.

It is almost a tragedy that Philly is not seizing the moment with a low takeout, their handle remains a pity and their takeout is among the highest in the land (30% on trifectas). If Philly lowered takeout I would move my tack in a flash away from NYRA.

[Jackal]

Slots are not benefiting horsemen in PA. Slots are much easier to maintain than a racetrack. Racino management is more than willing to allow racing to die a slow death. If no one is going to the races they can have shorter and shorter meets to maximize their profits.

[jayfree41]

I haven't been to Aqueduct since the '70's when I was a kid. I saw Ruffian win there. I've never been to Philly Park.

But ... I love both of these tracks as a handicapper. Aqueduct might be a dump. But I love betting on NYRA races regardless of the time of year.

It is also true: Philly is getting better.

[PaceAdvantage]

but the NYRA supporters (which, not coincidently, are also the DRFites, and thus the BEYERites, you know, the connoisseurs of FAST horses )I'd really like an in-depth explanation of this particular passage from TFM.

I'm a NYRA supporter, but I am not a DRFite (whatever that is...maybe I am and just don't know it), nor am I a BEYERite (if by BEYERite, you mean one who utilizes Beyer speed figures on a regular basis while handicapping).

I'm a fan of Beyer's writings and agree with many of his positions...maybe that makes me a BEYERite, but I suspect you mean it to be someone who uses his speed figures while handicapping.

[DanG]

NYRA is against using their turf courses.They go out of their way to take races off the turf. WTF are we saving the turf courses for?

All I can say is THANK GOD FOR WOODBINE. At least there's ONE TRACK around that actually does things right.
Not trying to change the subject, but just a query I ran on the HTR site today that is along this train of thought. Belmont’s rate is actually quite good considering their location, but as you mentioned a while back fats; that Calder rate of 38% lost is incredible!

These are the numbers (should be 95% correct) of the number of turf and / off the turf in North America since 2006 or so. This isn’t casting aspersions at circuits who by no fault of their own just have a ‘different’ mother nature then say Del Mar whose weather is a blue print for perfection. Just a rough guide for 2010 if you like gambling on the weeds and feel the frustration of putting the work in only to see it denied.

BTW: I agree with you on Woodbine Fats; 1st time I played the meet full time this year and really enjoyed it for what its worth. :ThmbUp:

tTRK TURF OFF % LOST
AP 882 164 16%
AQU 275 105 28%
ATL 118 0 0%
BEL 1390 240 15%
BM 414 13 3%
CBY 384 84 18%
CD 556 78 12%
CNL 1185 92 7%
CRC 1066 649 38%
DEL 511 213 29%
DMR 365 1 0%
ELP 489 39 7%
EVD 130 11 8%
FE 158 86 35%
FG 501 168 25%
GG 663 64 9%
GP 1081 107 9%
HAW 275 105 28%
HOL 845 22 3%
HOU 246 28 10%
IND 345 92 21%
KD 150 0 0%
KEE 236 32 12%
LAD 805 249 24%
LRL 592 229 28%
LS 654 108 14%
MED 264 78 23%
MNR 352 171 33%
MTH 561 165 23%
PEN 328 148 31%
PHA 468 178 28%
PIM 302 81 21%
RD 233 123 35%
RET 453 33 7%
RP 534 51 9%
SA 1099 49 4%
SAR 599 94 14%
SR 140 0 0%
SUF 301 141 32%
TAM 836 118 12%
TUP 769 30 4%
WO 742 201 21%

[badcompany]

I was looking at yesterday's Philly results. They did 60k on track! What are there, 300 people at the track?

[Doc]

Good point about the takeout. A track like Philly Park that has generous slot purses, an improved class of races should be growing market share in the parimutuel market. Yet they remain far far behind NYRA in handle.

What has Philly done to increase market share? The truth is that they have done absolutely nothing to lure horseplayers into following their track. Philly has a window of opportunity here to surge past NYRA. They have the horses, the purses and the momentum. The perfect compliment to this threesome would be the horseplayers. Lowering takeout could be the catalyst that starts the migration of horseplayers away from beleaguered NYRA to slot rich Pennsylvania.

It is almost a tragedy that Philly is not seizing the moment with a low takeout, their handle remains a pity and their takeout is among the highest in the land (30% on trifectas). If Philly lowered takeout I would move my tack in a flash away from NYRA.

I really and truly believe that Philly does not have the management in place needed to implement a plan to increase market share. The current head guy, Joe Wilson, ascended to his position after Hal Handel and Jim Gagliano, both really smart men, bolted for greener pastures (Handel to NYRA, Gagliano is soon to become the top guy at The Jockey Club). Wilson does not understand racing and its fans like they did. It was Handel who spearheaded the renovation of the grandstand before it was gutted for slots. Hence, the Philly product will not be promoted and handle will continue to drop. Lawmakers will point to this and say - why should we continue to subsidize a dying sport?

[Track Collector]

i got to like that idea in a big way. it would help racing handles. its a no lose deal from both sides, the government would not have to spend money chasing down guys that don't report their gambling winnings. it would help the guy that gambles from becoming a record keeper in order to bet. on balance it would add revenue to the government with higher handles.

We can hope for this in fantasy land, but I can not see Big Brother giving up on a huge revenue stream from a group they view as addicts and degenerates.

The premise that the government would want to save by not spending money (to chase tax cheats) is false. The current government is looking everywhere it can to grow and expand. With regard to taxes, they LOVE hunt down and intimidate.

I do agree that handles would increase with the inclusion of monies that are currently placed with and booked by off-shore outfits.

[castaway01]

Good point about the takeout. A track like Philly Park that has generous slot purses, an improved class of races should be growing market share in the parimutuel market. Yet they remain far far behind NYRA in handle.

What has Philly done to increase market share? The truth is that they have done absolutely nothing to lure horseplayers into following their track. Philly has a window of opportunity here to surge past NYRA. They have the horses, the purses and the momentum. The perfect compliment to this threesome would be the horseplayers. Lowering takeout could be the catalyst that starts the migration of horseplayers away from beleaguered NYRA to slot rich Pennsylvania.

It is almost a tragedy that Philly is not seizing the moment with a low takeout, their handle remains a pity and their takeout is among the highest in the land (30% on trifectas). If Philly lowered takeout I would move my tack in a flash away from NYRA.

They simply do not care about the horseplayer or horse racing, or surging past NYRA, or anything other than their casino. Their handle has DROPPED despite the increase in the quality of the racing and massive increases in purse money. The racing is just a means to an end to get and keep their slots. There's no tragedy or mystery about it---it's all bottom line.

[onefast99]

The horse racing industry will get ZERO from table games. All table games will do is siphon off money from slots. Stroll into Mike Ballezzi's office and ask him.

This is widely available information; Google "Pennsylvania table games" and you will get a lot of information.
I did say in my response to you the table games may throw off some monies but not a guarantee. Your arguement on the table games siphoning off the slots is pure ignorance, why? Because as studies have shown the table games will increase the attendance and are targeted for specific bettors who do not frequent Philly Park as of now and rather head to Atlantic City or elsewhere to play this option which is not available in Pa. The casino is also betting on the fact that those who now come to PP(April) to play table games will bring their significant others who will play slots. Casino marketing 101, available at Barnes and Noble.

[onefast99]

Lawmakers will point to this and say - why should we continue to subsidize a dying sport?
So you think the lawmakers will realize that PP has no idea what they are doing primarily due to the wrong management team and pull the plug on Pa racing altogether? Ok.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I believe in Canada there is a Federal parimutual tax along with a Provincial tax, and that is why they are so high. Compensated, for Canadians, by no income tax on gambling winnings.
The tax on parimutuel is probably the lowest of any jurisdiction. It is only 1.3% on every dollar wagered.

[ArlJim78]

I didn't realize the purses had surges up so much at Philly park. It is a must play track for me, I do very well there in terms of finding value. Its been like that for a couple of years now. I can't really put my finger on why it is that I can consistently pull good prices from that place.

[tzipi]

I was looking at yesterday's Philly results. They did 60k on track! What are there, 300 people at the track?

SAY GOOODDBYE TOOOO PHILLY PARK. (Using the Joel song ha)
Anyway they get NO ONE at that track. People think the racinos save racing and help out. Nope,they say they will take on racing because they had to and then when these numbers stay the same they can lobby to get rid of the racing part and expand the casino. All racinos knew this before the jumped in. Racing was dumb to allow this.
YUP,the racino wants to hold on and INVEST money in a game that brings in like 400 people and just $60,000 a day :D . Aqueduct will get same treatment along with many others that will shut down after a while because no one goes or bets on the horses. The CASINOS are profitable,not the horses.

[Doc]

Onefast99, you need to read more carefully and do more research as to the current news on table games. And for your information, most horsemen's groups are OPPOSED to table games because of the money they are projected to siphon off from slots. Handle isn't just dropping at Philly, it's dropping NATIONWIDE. Are you aware that handle at Philly is off 25 percent from last year despite the fact that purses are at an all-time high? Take slots revenue out of the equation and where would Pennsylvania racing be right now? There's a thread here on Pace Advantage with pictures of defunct racetracks - Philly and Penn would be among them if it weren't for slots.

I know you are in love with Philly Park, its horsemen's rep and track management, and I actually find you quite amusing. Unfortunately, you are in the minority.

[Doc]

This is from a post from another thread:


Stats from Pennsylvania (source: DRF 10/24/09):

Total t'bred handle*
2006 $777.6 mm
2007 741.9 mm
2008 657.9 mm

*includes betting by PA residents on in-state and out-of-state t'bred racing and betting by out-of-state residents on PA t'bred races

Total purse subsidies (from slots)/total purses:
2006 $2.6 mm / $55.0 mm
2007 124.7mm / 144.3 mm
2008 193.9 mm / 201.1 mm

So as purses went from $55 mm in 2006 to over $200 mm in 2008, total handle actually declined by over 15% from $778 mm to $658 mm. Now most horsemen would say "who cares," but the state will eventually claw back more and more of the subsidy and the declining handle will actually matter.

[samyn on the green]

Looks like Philly Park is opening a new casino today. Look at the great new website, (http://www.parxcasino.com/) the challenge is to find the reference to horse racing at Philly Park. Unfortunatly racing at Phiily Park is the equivalent of a Tiger's philandering, a really big part of his life that is well hidden.

[onefast99]

Onefast99, you need to read more carefully and do more research as to the current news on table games. And for your information, most horsemen's groups are OPPOSED to table games because of the money they are projected to siphon off from slots. Handle isn't just dropping at Philly, it's dropping NATIONWIDE. Are you aware that handle at Philly is off 25 percent from last year despite the fact that purses are at an all-time high? Take slots revenue out of the equation and where would Pennsylvania racing be right now? There's a thread here on Pace Advantage with pictures of defunct racetracks - Philly and Penn would be among them if it weren't for slots.

I know you are in love with Philly Park, its horsemen's rep and track management, and I actually find you quite amusing. Unfortunately, you are in the minority.
Why would you even engage in a conversation about taking slot revenues out of PP? You cite some current news on table games, show me one racino with table games where the effect has been detrimental to the horseman. You are going off of projections based on a continued decline in the racing industry without weighing all of the variables. You cite the decline in the handle at PP all of this was going on while the casino was being built and once it is fully opened please come back with your rose colored glasses on and post those numbers. I must admit you are without a doubt someone who can find the only cloud in the sky on a sunny day!

[onefast99]

This is from a post from another thread:


Stats from Pennsylvania (source: DRF 10/24/09):

Total t'bred handle*
2006 $777.6 mm
2007 741.9 mm
2008 657.9 mm

*includes betting by PA residents on in-state and out-of-state t'bred racing and betting by out-of-state residents on PA t'bred races

Total purse subsidies (from slots)/total purses:
2006 $2.6 mm / $55.0 mm
2007 124.7mm / 144.3 mm
2008 193.9 mm / 201.1 mm

So as purses went from $55 mm in 2006 to over $200 mm in 2008, total handle actually declined by over 15% from $778 mm to $658 mm. Now most horsemen would say "who cares," but the state will eventually claw back more and more of the subsidy and the declining handle will actually matter.
Maybe you should post the numbers at Mountaineer since the table games were introduced. In fact Mountaineer is afraid of Pa getting the table games as well as the possibility of Ohio getting them. Very one dimensional thinking Doc.

[Doc]

Why would you even engage in a conversation about taking slot revenues out of PP? You cite some current news on table games, show me one racino with table games where the effect has been detrimental to the horseman. You are going off of projections based on a continued decline in the racing industry without weighing all of the variables. You cite the decline in the handle at PP all of this was going on while the casino was being built and once it is fully opened please come back with your rose colored glasses on and post those numbers. I must admit you are without a doubt someone who can find the only cloud in the sky on a sunny day!

I am not alone in my feelings about Philly Park, onefast99. Perhaps my disgust with management, both frontside and backside, comes from having been there since 1990. You are a relative newcomer, and it won't be long before you start changing your tune.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I am not alone in my feelings about Philly Park, onefast99. Perhaps my disgust with management, both frontside and backside, comes from having been there since 1990. You are a relative newcomer, and it won't be long before you start changing your tune.

Isn't there anything you like about racing? I think that was 1fast's point. I concede a large portion of the posts on this forum take a dim view of things, but I'm sure you've got something positive to say?

[melman]

Come on Doc just start betting trifecta's at Philly Park. I'm sure your have no problem beating the 32% rake with your special skills. Just ask the folks up at Woodbine Entertainment they know that a "quality product" is what is really needed. High takeout is a good thing just look at how the purses have gone up. :jump: :jump: Just wait until the powers that be start reducing the slot money even more. That Philly Park "quality product" will more than make up for that. :jump: Don't be so negative Doc racing is growing by leaps and bounds here in Pennsylvania. Geesh. :bang:

[onefast99]

I am not alone in my feelings about Philly Park, onefast99. Perhaps my disgust with management, both frontside and backside, comes from having been there since 1990. You are a relative newcomer, and it won't be long before you start changing your tune.
Can you at least admit the food on the 5th floor is pretty good? I would trade you in a heartbeat for the fare offered at MP if Aramark doesn't change the product NJSEA has to bring in another vendor. Good luck at the track this weekend.

[Doc]

Isn't there anything you like about racing? I think that was 1fast's point. I concede a large portion of the posts on this forum take a dim view of things, but I'm sure you've got something positive to say?

I love racing ... just not at Philly Park. I don't think I mentioned another track in this thread, have I Mike?

[Saratoga_Mike]

I love racing ... just not at Philly Park. I don't think I mentioned another track in this thread, have I Mike?

Actually you incessantly complain about everything.

[Arnold17]

I bet on the races on SPAM Link removed. Reminds of good old bookmaker. The site has proven itself well with honest payments and excellent service. Solving any issues through a personal manager is very simple and convenient

[Dave Schwartz]

I bet on the races on SPAM link removed. Reminds of good old bookmaker. The site has proven itself well with honest payments and excellent service. Solving any issues through a personal manager is very simple and convenient

Since your first post sounds a lot like a sales pitch, Arnold, and you picked a 12-year old thread, I hope you have your seat belt on.

The welcome wagon should arrive momentarily.

[PaceAdvantage]

Banned...damn...I'm slipping...

[Tom]

Since your first post sounds a lot like a sales pitch, Arnold, and you picked a 12-year old thread, I hope you have your seat belt on.

The welcome wagon should arrive momentarily.

https://c.tenor.com/9jf-DDWOCI4AAAAC/runover-kid.gif

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Any update on the comparison? Did Philly Park surge past Aqueduct?

[the little guy]

Any update on the comparison? Did Philly Park surge past Aqueduct?

In every way

[Zman179]

Any update on the comparison? Did Philly Park surge past Aqueduct?

They most certainly did…for about 15 minutes.