Mr. b

[cees with dees]

I was watching TVG the other day and a horse was hesitant to load into the starting gate
Mr. b said he couldn't understand it as the horse was coming off three wins in a row.
My questions are:
What does winning races have to do with loading into the starting gate?
Does Bob really think horses know that they've won??
I think all the horses really know is that a feedbag is waiting for them back at the barn.
Ben

[The Hawk]

Getting handicapping information from TVG is like getting your news from The Onion.

[Valuist]

Getting handicapping information from TVG is like getting your news from The Onion.

ROLMFAO

[levinmpa]

TVG, where "Free means Free". They take $0.25 for every wager you make, but only up to $19.95 per month. So the $2 bettor gets hit with an additional 12.5% on top of the already high takeout. What a deal. If you don't use your account for awhile, they hit you with a monthly fee for "inactivity". Why does anyone give this company any business when there are other options in the market that don't nickel and dime you like this? I just don't get it. If I got hit by any fee whatsoever by my ADW, I would say "see ya".

[sandpit]

I was watching TVG the other day and a horse was hesitant to load into the starting gate
Mr. b said he couldn't understand it as the horse was coming off three wins in a row.
My questions are:
What does winning races have to do with loading into the starting gate?
Does Bob really think horses know that they've won??
I think all the horses really know is that a feedbag is waiting for them back at the barn.
Ben

He may be off base quite a bit, but I am certain that some horses know when they win or lose. I took care of a filly that used to sulk for 3 or 4 days after a losing race, but when she won you could hardly keep her on the ground for a week. They all aren't like that, but she was.

[Stillriledup]

Our local and state governments just permit businesses to lie outright to potential customers. No one calls them on this free means free business. Whoever pays money to TVG to place a wager is a dope.

[feelup1963]

I AGREE WITH YOU GUYS .I REALLY DO KNOWN WHY PEOPLE ARE SUPPORTING TVG.

[joanied]

He may be off base quite a bit, but I am certain that some horses know when they win or lose. I took care of a filly that used to sulk for 3 or 4 days after a losing race, but when she won you could hardly keep her on the ground for a week. They all aren't like that, but she was.

:ThmbUp:
Yes, most do know when they win or loose...cees with dees...sometimes, the really good ones will 'have their hearts broken' by another horse that continues to beat them...like Sham & Secretariat...also a reason trainers will give a horse a 'confidence booster'...run them where they will win.

But, IMO, it has nothing to do with loading...a horse can run dozens of races, win, loose or draw, load every time, and then one day just decides something ain't right...and balk at the gate.

[swale84]

Does Bob really think horses know that they've won??
I think all the horses really know is that a feedbag is waiting for them back at the barn.
Ben


You must not have worked around horses...of course they know when they win. Its a competition to them also. And most feed is put into a feed tub....not a feed bag

[OTM Al]

First, I like Mr B. He's been doing this all his life and loves the game. Any guy that used his military leave and all the resoures he could muster to get from southeast Asia to just be able to take in a couple days at Del Mar is good by me. You don't have to agree with anything someone says, but you should listen as it may help with your own handicapping in one way or another.

As to winning and then having loading problems, who knows. I always give a horse one, but if there are repeated gate issues, it's a pattern not an anomaly. No matter who the horse is, rule #1 applies

Some days Mr Horse just don't feel like jackassing around the track with a little man on his back.

And sometimes that's all there is to it.

[cj's dad]

Our local and state governments just permit businesses to lie outright to potential customers. No one calls them on this free means free business. Whoever pays money to TVG to place a wager is a dope.

Thanks for enlightening me Einstein !!

What I'll do tomorrow if I decide to wager is leave work early (lost wages)
drive to Laurel Park (gas in the car), pay $3 to get in, make my wagers and maybe have a beer ($4.50) drive home in heavy traffic from DC (more gas)
and hope that I had a good day at the track. :lol::lol::lol:

You, sir , are the dope here. Last I checked ALL ADW'S are by choice- why do you give a rat's f----ng a-s where I spend my money?

[TJDave]

:ThmbUp:
sometimes, the really good ones will 'have their hearts broken' by another horse that continues to beat them...like Sham & Secretariat

Secretariat was head/shoulder above any horse, EVER. However, had Sham been sound he would have beaten Secretariat in the Whitney.

Not because he was better, but his trainer was. ;)

[The Hawk]

Thanks for enlightening me Einstein !!

What I'll do tomorrow if I decide to wager is leave work early (lost wages)
drive to Laurel Park (gas in the car), pay $3 to get in, make my wagers and maybe have a beer ($4.50) drive home in heavy traffic from DC (more gas)
and hope that I had a good day at the track. :lol::lol::lol:

You, sir , are the dope here. Last I checked ALL ADW'S are by choice- why do you give a rat's f----ng a-s where I spend my money?

I think he meant those playing through TVG as opposed to other ADW's, not as opposed to going to the racetrack. I have to agree, I don't know why anyone would pay to bet through TVG when there are free alternatives, if TVG does in fact still charge bettors.

[WinterTriangle]

Swale and Joanied are correct.

I also can't help but feel that ignorance about live horses (except to handicap them on paper) "may" contribute to the way the industry has been alllowed to treat horses as "disposable"..... just dumb beasts.



As an aside, humans may overrate cerebral cortex at the risk of losing other senses, like ability to tap into instinct.

A woman and her child wait for an elevator in a large office complex of medical offices. Doors open, male standing in elevator, and the woman gets an uncomfortable "gut: feeling.

But her brain rationalizes: he's dressed well, nice business haircut, he smiles, looks like he belongs, heck he may even be one of the surgeons.

So she gets on the elevator. Later becomes a crime statistic.

I can assure you that my DOGS would not get on the elevator. I've been in all kinds of situation with them, and they follow their instincts. They don't think about it, they just go with their gut. I was saved from stepping on a water mocassin last year because of that.:)

Why a horse may not load can be for any number of reasons, from simply not in the mood to sensing something that they perceive as dangerous to them.

[Lasix67]

Can you image where horse racing would be today without TVG or HRTV?

[Show Me the Wire]

MR. B and TVG :ThmbUp:

[joanied]

Secretariat was head/shoulder above any horse, EVER. However, had Sham been sound he would have beaten Secretariat in the Whitney.

Not because he was better, but his trainer was. ;)

Well, that is a maybe....maybe, maybe, maybe...you do know the big horse was not well when he ran in the Whitney....but, that isn't the point of this thread...we're talking about wether or not horses know they have won or lost a race...
I was crazy about Sham, and it's a shame he came along in the same year as Secretariat...but, those that understand the mind of these horses, understand that they do know...and poor Sham finishing 2nd to Big Red in the Derby & Preakness, and then trying his heart out at the beginning of the Belmont, only to finish so far behind the field...
it broke his heart...(and mine).

[lilmegahertz]

Swale and Joanied are correct.



I can assure you that my DOGS would not get on the elevator. I've been in all kinds of situation with them, and they follow their instincts. They don't think about it, they just go with their gut. I was saved from stepping on a water mocassin last year because of that.:)

Why a horse may not load can be for any number of reasons, from simply not in the mood to sensing something that they perceive as dangerous to them.

True. When I was single, I would let the guys know that if my dog did not like them, then the guy had to go bye-bye because my dog would sense something was not right.

And if you read Seabiscuit....after the great match race....Wolf said he thought War Admiral had no heart before the race. After the race he looked back and saw The Admiral with head hung down, walking slowly,looking defeated in his body language and Wolf said he was wrong. War Admiral DID have heart.

[TJDave]

you do know the big horse was not well when he ran in the Whitney.

That's a diplomatic way to put it. :lol:

Yeah, good horses know...and Sham was all heart. My point was any match up with 'Big Red' was inherently unfair.

And to the above:
The fact Secretariat lost any race except his maiden was a crime.

[castaway01]

Well, that is a maybe....maybe, maybe, maybe...you do know the big horse was not well when he ran in the Whitney....but, that isn't the point of this thread...we're talking about wether or not horses know they have won or lost a race...
I was crazy about Sham, and it's a shame he came along in the same year as Secretariat...but, those that understand the mind of these horses, understand that they do know...and poor Sham finishing 2nd to Big Red in the Derby & Preakness, and then trying his heart out at the beginning of the Belmont, only to finish so far behind the field...
it broke his heart...(and mine).

joanie, sometimes your posts get a little (a lot) too sappy for me, but I'm going to agree with you---if there was ever a competitive horse who had his heart "broken" by another, it was Sham by Secretariat.

[TJDave]

if there was ever a competitive horse who had his heart "broken" by another, it was Sham by Secretariat.

What leads you to that conclusion?

Sham was retired and never had the chance to redeem himself.

And...I don't think he quit, ever. Wasn't he eased in the Belmont?

[Canarsie]

I can only use a NJ account but I think the fees will be dropped forever. On the back of the DRF from Dec 5 it say 3 months free while on the tube it says the end of the year. They are all fighting for the same customer there aren't many new ones.

I still think we are way better off with TVG I just watch it less now because those "free" plugs are getting very annoying. But the hosts are forced to say them bet it bugs them too.

Criticizing someone for having a TVG account is equivalent to doing the same thing to someone who plays "exotics" at Pa. or Canadian tracks. It's a matter of choice though I would put my money elsewhere if it was available to me.

The one thing I do like about my NJ account is with a 20 minute ride I get hard "cash" anytime I want. Having said that other ADW's have better features like ROI's at an individual track that I would really like to have access to.

[Jackal]

You must not have worked around horses...of course they know when they win. Its a competition to them also. And most feed is put into a feed tub....not a feed bag

I am not certain if horses know when they win. I do know most racehorses are "hams" they love attention. Usually when a horse wins it's lavished with attention and someone goes to the tack shop to buy a treat for the horse. Another thing horses are excellent at perceiving the mood of their handlers.

It's possible trainers and owners can prevent a let down by treating the horse as winner each time it races - win or lose.

[jasperson]

What does winning races have to do with loading into the starting gate?
Does Bob really think horses know that they've won??
I think all the horses really know is that a feedbag is waiting for them back at the barn.
Ben[/QUOTE]

Sure they do. We had a horse at LAD the was photo'ed out but was really ahead at the finish line but his nose was down. He refused to go to the barn until they took him to the winners circle

[rwwupl]

I have a lot of respect for MR."B"

Bob grew up in a household headed by a true,icon of handicapping "Bud"Baedeker. On opening day at Hollywood, 1950, the Baedeker Guide had all 7 winners on top of his TipSheet, a world record.

Bobs dad "Bud" and Buds brother Jack were pioneers selling tip sheets at So. Ca. racetracks in 1938.

Bobs brother Rick was once President of Hollywood Park. Toby Turrell is Buds Grandson.

Bobs father Bud Baedeker whose real name was Fred Martin, grew up in Chicago where he once worked as a caddie for Al Capone. He came to Ca. when he was 19 and carved out a new career with horseracing.

This poster learned a great deal about handicapping from father Bud when I tried to sit as close as I could as a young man every day in the grandstand at Santa Anita, after the tipsheet sales were over, and attended his seminars when he would breakdown the races and explain the reasons. Bob and Rick were just kids then.

Bob learned well from his father and continued to publish "Baedekers Guide", in my opinion the best of all tip sheets. Father Bud and son Bob give 100% to their passion,Horseracing and I could not recommend anyone more honest.

Mr. B is a giant credit to the game. He and his family have given us the best they have for a lifetime.

rwwupl

[joanied]

That's a diplomatic way to put it. :lol:

Yeah, good horses know...and Sham was all heart. My point was any match up with 'Big Red' was inherently unfair.

And to the above:
The fact Secretariat lost any race except his maiden was a crime.

Yes. If you go back and know what was going on, very true...he never should have lost a race...your point is well taken:)

[joanied]

joanie, sometimes your posts get a little (a lot) too sappy for me, but I'm going to agree with you---if there was ever a competitive horse who had his heart "broken" by another, it was Sham by Secretariat.

castaway01...sorry my posts seem 'sappy' to you...it's unfortunate that when someone posts with emotion, it's taken as being 'sappy'...if there was ever a sport that brings out the emotions of those that love it...horse racing is it.
But, good to know you agree about Sham:)

[Marshall Bennett]

Sure they do. We had a horse at LAD the was photo'ed out but was really ahead at the finish line but his nose was down. He refused to go to the barn until they took him to the winners circle

:lol:

[rokitman]

He may be off base quite a bit, but I am certain that some horses know when they win or lose. I took care of a filly that used to sulk for 3 or 4 days after a losing race, but when she won you could hardly keep her on the ground for a week. They all aren't like that, but she was.
You're not speaking from experience and using facts, are you? You, sir, are going to have to forfeit your membership to the Internet.

[TJDave]

good horses know

I'd like to modify that a bit.

ALL horses know.

Some care, some don't.

And most, through no fault of their own, aren't given the opportunity.