Who should be running racetracks?

[Valuist]

The two Chicago tracks represent an interesting dichotemy: the more popular (with casual fans) Arlington Park, run by a military guy who knows less about horse racing than I do how to make a nuclear bomb. And Hawthorne, a track with a step down in racing quality but more bettor friendly, with big fields (at least in the fall meet) and good payoff.....and real dirt.

ANyone with a brain knows Arlington is run by an idiot who doesn't belong in that job. What's interesting is Hawthorne. Jim Miller is assistant GM; TIm Carey is track President and GM. On one hand, it is great to have an actual handicapper who follows the sport of racing and backs up his opinions at the windows. Does anyone feel this is a conflict of interest? Given the choice, I'd have to side with Miller over Colonel Arnold, the Arlington President. Given the environment, time of year they race, and the general horse population, Hawthorne has a more difficult product to sell. I think Miller is doing a good job but knowing how horseplayers are paranoid, I'm surprised there aren't more suspicions over a guy in racetrack upper management making selections and betting.

[cj]

I would say those that allegedly know racing haven't done much to help the sport. It would probably be best for all tracks to bring in a business man that isn't a racing guy.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I would say those that allegedly know racing haven't done much to help the sport. It would probably be best for all tracks to bring in a business man that isn't a racing guy.
Businessmen do not understand the horseplayer (the customer).
A businessman/horseplayer might do the trick.

[andymays]

Businessmen do not understand the horseplayer (the customer).
A businessman/horseplayer might do the trick.


How do you define Horseplayer?

[Horseplayersbet.com]

How do you define Horseplayer?
In this case, someone who has bet horses at 36 weeks a year for 5 straight years. Of course, someone who understands ROI would be even better.

[cj]

The problem is current management takes the customers for granted. Fresh faces, while not knowing racing, don't come in with preconceived notions about bettors.

One thing I'm certain of is that it can't get any worse.

[andymays]

In this case, someone who has bet horses at 36 weeks a year for 5 straight years. Of course, someone who understands ROI would be even better.


That's the definition of a person who gambles on Horse Racing, not necessarily a "Horseplayer". How about a Horseplayer who understands Horse Racing? There's a difference.

You have to have someone that has been involved in or has an intimate knowlege of Training, Owning, Breeding, and betting on Horses. Also an intimate knowlege of how ADW's work.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

That's the definition of a person who gambles on Horse Racing, not necessarily a "Horseplayer". How about a Horseplayer who understands Horse Racing? There's a difference.

You have to have someone that has been involved in or has an intimate knowlege of Training, Owning, Breeding, and betting on Horses. Also an intimate knowlege of how ADW's work.
Sounds like me.

[andymays]

Sounds like me.


You're hired. :ThmbUp:

The only thing I would require is that you solemnly swear to get rid of synthetic surfaces is areas with little or no rain. That is fundamental! ;)

[Saratoga_Mike]

Businessmen do not understand the horseplayer (the customer).
A businessman/horseplayer might do the trick.

How has Ron Geary worked out at Ellis?

[Horseplayersbet.com]

How has Ron Geary worked out at Ellis?
Give him slots, and see what happens.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Certainly not this guy:

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2001/mar/22/friends-these/

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Certainly not this guy:

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2001/mar/22/friends-these/
If mobsters were in control of the race tracks today, takeout wouldn't be a point over 10%. However, drugs would be a huge issue ..... oh wait, they are a huge issue today.

And Andy would still be complaining about the new surface "Hoffa track"

[johnhannibalsmith]

If mobsters were in control of the race tracks today, takeout wouldn't be a point over 10%. However, drugs would be a huge issue ..... oh wait, they are a huge issue today.

And Andy would still be complaining about the new surface "Hoffa track"

Read past the opening paragraph... the central character does run a race track... if you can describe it that glowingly...

[therussmeister]

Hawthorne fall has had bigger fields than Arlington long before that military man started, long before polytrack, long before Churchill bought Arlington, and even before they started exporting their signal; so I don't even know when Arlington had bigger fields.

The reason for Hawthorne's big fields: they run cheaper claimers.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Give him slots, and see what happens.

Give anyone a state-granted monopoly and see what happens. I don't understand your point. Does Arlington not suffer from slots competition?

Arlington Park is a phenomenal facility. I don't know the colonel, but it's obvious he runs a tight ship. The employees are friendly, the food court is the nicest in racing (okay I prefer restaurant row at Saratoga, but that isn't a truly a food court), and the place is immaculate. For the level of purses (AP doesn't benefit from slots - that's still in court), the quality of racing is solid. All that said, I rarely go there b/c I want to bet on dirt, not poly or whatever you want to call it. If the colonel was the champion of the poly conversion, I believe he made a grave mistake.

Ron Geary's a great handicapper and a terrific human being and I wish him well.

[andymays]

Certainly not this guy:

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2001/mar/22/friends-these/


http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2001/mar/22/friends-these/

Excerpt:

If they think of him at all these days, most San Diegans probably remember Allen Glick as the Mafia puppet, thinly disguised as "Mr. Green," in Martin Scorcese's movie version of Casino, a book by Nick Pileggi. Back in the mid-1970s, Glick, a small-time San Diego real estate developer with an office just down the street from Mr. A's restaurant, was set up by the Midwest mob as straw owner of the Stardust and Fremont hotels on the Las Vegas strip.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr A's was owned by the family that owned Agua Caliente for years. Agua Caliente was the place to go for many a movie star when they owned it. Mr. A's wasn't too bad either. They had one of the best views in town and some of the best food. I spent a few bucks there in my time.

[illinoisbred]

The Carey family does a pretty good job considering they get the worst dates, worst weather,and their track is in a somewhat undesirable location. It's a shame that the Bidwells[owners of Sportsmans Park] and the Careys couldn't have formed a partnership 25 years ago[or even earlier,after the Hawthorne fire] and purchased land out in the suburban area to build a top-notch facility. They would have had a stronger standing in regard to date allotment and perhaps a lot of the better stables would stay-then again maybe not, the winters are pretty bad here.

[LottaKash]

Perhaps if the Governments (local & state), would get the heck out of the way, and let the tracks do their thing, I believe that horse racing would definitely take a turn for the betttor....As it stands now, the government has too much to say about tracks and their business, while offering nothing in return....They steal way too much from the tracks....

A flat "fixed" business tax, would do wonders to remedy the situation, imo....

best,

[kenwoodallpromos]

Already a horseplayer = no increase in handle.
Military= increase in personnel signing up to be blown up.
I think a military man could in the long run get new handle better than those who want to favor those already constantly gambling.

[Valuist]

Hawthorne fall has had bigger fields than Arlington long before that military man started, long before polytrack, long before Churchill bought Arlington, and even before they started exporting their signal; so I don't even know when Arlington had bigger fields.

The reason for Hawthorne's big fields: they run cheaper claimers.

IMO, the biggest reason Haw has had bigger fields than AP is less competition late in the year. If you are a Midwestern barn and want to race on real dirt, its basically Haw or FG, unless you go to the bottom of the barrel (Beu).

[Show Me the Wire]

Hawthorne has bigger fields, because they card lots of low level claimers and nw2l races. As one poster posted before, Hawthorne had larger fields than Ap when Ap had a dirt surface.

[Zman179]

IMO, the biggest reason Haw has had bigger fields than AP is less competition late in the year. If you are a Midwestern barn and want to race on real dirt, its basically Haw or FG, unless you go to the bottom of the barrel (Beu).

Don't forget that Arlington also has to battle with Prairie Meadows. Plus Hawthorne benefits from the end of the Fairmount meet.

[wisconsin]

Don't forget that Arlington also has to battle with Prairie Meadows. Plus Hawthorne benefits from the end of the Fairmount meet.

Prairie Meadows is the king of short fields in the Midwest. I don't believe it when you tell me Arlington is competing with them for horses. As for Fairmount, how does Hawthorne benefit from a meet that ends in August? Those horse go to Ellis and Hoosier. Hawthorne then competes with Hoosier for a short while. I sure do yearn for the days when Arlington ran more claimers and the fields were all full.

[illinoisbred]

Many long-time Arlington outfits have started to run strings at Prairie Meadows and Canterbury-Brueggemann,Magana,Kirby,Janks, and Gore, to name a few.Stables by and large whose runners perform poorly on polytrack. I understand more are going to leave next year.

[rwwupl]

You're hired. :ThmbUp:

The only thing I would require is that you solemnly swear to get rid of synthetic surfaces is areas with little or no rain. That is fundamental! ;)


I call them "Sportsman" ,I second the motion. :ThmbUp:

[Robert Goren]

You're hired. :ThmbUp:

The only thing I would require is that you solemnly swear to get rid of synthetic surfaces is areas with little or no rain. That is fundamental! ;) Does that mean places with lots of rain should get poly? Does GP ever have a fast track? Southern California in late winter is pretty wet. So is New Orleans. Of coarse while I dislike poly I absolutely hate slop.

[andymays]

Does that mean places with lots of rain should get poly? Does GP ever have a fast track? Southern California in late winter is pretty wet. So is New Orleans. Of coarse while I dislike poly I absolutely hate slop.


I've made some of my best scores on slop. The problem for the Horseplayers are the many scratches.

You have to decide if the surface is for 1 day a year (Breeders' Cup) or a few days a year when it rains. There are many many more days of good weather than bad. At Del Mar it's rained once or twice in the last 25 years to the best of my recollection.

You watch the next week or so. They will either report how great the surface is draining (that's what it is supposed to do anyway) or if it doesn't drain they will make excuses for it.

[miesque]

Does that mean places with lots of rain should get poly? Does GP ever have a fast track? Southern California in late winter is pretty wet. So is New Orleans. Of coarse while I dislike poly I absolutely hate slop.

I absolutely and positively loathe sloppy tracks and have pretty much gotten to the point where I either flat out won't play them or if I happen to be at a track where it is sloppy only wager a mere fraction of what I would bet if it was a fast track.

I also might add that, if I go through the effort of planning a trip to the track and it turns out to be sloppy when I am there, I have been know to get a little cranky.

[Show Me the Wire]

Don't forget that Arlington also has to battle with Prairie Meadows. Plus Hawthorne benefits from the end of the Fairmount meet.

Maybe it has something to do with the low purses at AP too. Also AP competes for stock, with CD, and its higher purses, for part of the meet.

[LottaKash]

I absolutely and positively loathe sloppy tracks and have pretty much gotten to the point where I either flat out won't play them or if I happen to be at a track where it is sloppy only wager a mere fraction of what I would bet if it was a fast track.

I also might add that, if I go through the effort of planning a trip to the track and it turns out to be sloppy when I am there, I have been know to get a little cranky.

So, who should be "running" the sloppy tracks...???

best,

[fmolf]

you can always bet on other tracks where the weather is moreto your liking....I think we need to get a guy in here form the casinos at least they give something back to there loyal customers even the smallest of the small get food comp dollars and free drinks while gambling!

[macdiarmida]

Well then, we need the oldtime casino owners -- the mob! Too bad Lefty Rosenthal (depicted in the movie "Casino") is gone; he had the right ideas to make racing acquire a old-style casino philosophy vs. the current half-dead leech model.