View Full Version : Why they hate us
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/11/30/why_they_hate_us_ii_how_many_muslims_has_the_us_ki lled_in_the_past_30_years
"If the United States wants to improve its image in the Islamic world," he said, "it should stop killing Muslims."
"Now I don't think the issue is quite that simple, but the comment got me thinking: How many Muslims has the United States killed in the past thirty years, and how many Americans have been killed by Muslims? Coming up with a precise answer to this question is probably impossible, but it is also not necessary, because the rough numbers are so clearly lopsided.
Here's my back-of-the-envelope analysis, based on estimates deliberately chosen to favor the United States. Specifically, I have taken the low estimates of Muslim fatalities, along with much more reliable figures for U.S. deaths.
....Yet if you really want to know "why they hate us," the numbers presented above cannot be ignored. Even if we view these figures with skepticism and discount the numbers a lot, the fact remains that the United States has killed a very large number of Arab or Muslim individuals over the past three decades. Even though we had just cause and the right intentions in some cases (as in the first Gulf War), our actions were indefensible (maybe even criminal) in others.
It is also striking to observe that virtually all of the Muslim deaths were the direct or indirect consequence of official U.S. government policy. By contrast, most of the Americans killed by Muslims were the victims of non-state terrorist groups such as al Qaeda or the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan. Americans should also bear in mind that the figures reported above omit the Arabs and Muslims killed by Israel in Lebanon, Gaza, and the West Bank. Given our generous and unconditional support for Israel's policy towards the Arab world in general and the Palestinians in particular, Muslims rightly hold us partly responsible for those victims too. "
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/images/091130_walt_chart.png
NJ Stinks
12-03-2009, 09:58 PM
Makes too much sense, Hcap. It's easier to believe they just hate our way of life. :rolleyes:
Boris
12-03-2009, 10:11 PM
When are they going to stop picking fights with someone who can clearly kick their ass?
ElKabong
12-03-2009, 10:13 PM
Is this supposed to be some magical measuring stick?
By looking at the first 3 "attacks" it's clear who's at fault/ who started the shit.
Your civilian #s are disputable. As for military combatants that volunteer to fight Americans, you bitches can die on Highway to Hell all day long. Line em up, let 'er rip. Go get your ugly virgins.
BenDiesel26
12-03-2009, 11:54 PM
There was definitely some Iraqi casualties during Operation Desert Fox as well when Clinton was bombing Iraq's WMD (his words) facilities. It would be nice to see some of Clinton's other conflicts as well, they are missing.
bigmack
12-04-2009, 12:02 AM
Makes too much sense, Hcap. It's easier to believe they just hate our way of life. :rolleyes:
How 'bout you come out and actually say something rather than throwing in little flick comments? Would you like to debate this issue or continue to simply heave yet another sentence and run off?
boxcar
12-04-2009, 12:06 AM
How 'bout you come out and actually say something rather than throwing in little flick comments? Would you like to debate this issue or continue to simply heave yet another sentence and run off?
Don't ever expect this guy to jump into the deep end of any [discussion] pool. Hell would surely freeze over first.
Boxcar
P.S. Plus he is smart enough to know that lead sinkers don't float.
Robert Goren
12-04-2009, 12:18 AM
No doubt there are Muslims who hate our way of life. I also know some Americans who aren't too fond of it either. Both believe that the USA is going to hell in a hand basket.
NJ Stinks
12-04-2009, 12:59 AM
How 'bout you come out and actually say something rather than throwing in little flick comments? Would you like to debate this issue or continue to simply heave yet another sentence and run off?
What's to debate? Exactly?
Are we gonna debate that the reason they hate us is because we are in their countries and killed thousands of them vs. the popular belief here in the US that they hate our way of life and therefore us?
Is that the debate, Mack?
riskman
12-04-2009, 01:17 AM
Even allowing for lying, guessing, and honest ignorance,the Muslims took heavy casualties according to this chart.They haven’t quit. If the US had suffered proportionately – say a couple of hundred thousand dead – the war in Iraq and Afghan would have been over years ago.
DRIVEWAY
12-04-2009, 01:32 AM
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/11/30/why_they_hate_us_ii_how_many_muslims_has_the_us_ki lled_in_the_past_30_years
"If the United States wants to improve its image in the Islamic world," he said, "it should stop killing Muslims."
"Now I don't think the issue is quite that simple, but the comment got me thinking: How many Muslims has the United States killed in the past thirty years, and how many Americans have been killed by Muslims? Coming up with a precise answer to this question is probably impossible, but it is also not necessary, because the rough numbers are so clearly lopsided.
Here's my back-of-the-envelope analysis, based on estimates deliberately chosen to favor the United States. Specifically, I have taken the low estimates of Muslim fatalities, along with much more reliable figures for U.S. deaths.
....Yet if you really want to know "why they hate us," the numbers presented above cannot be ignored. Even if we view these figures with skepticism and discount the numbers a lot, the fact remains that the United States has killed a very large number of Arab or Muslim individuals over the past three decades. Even though we had just cause and the right intentions in some cases (as in the first Gulf War), our actions were indefensible (maybe even criminal) in others.
It is also striking to observe that virtually all of the Muslim deaths were the direct or indirect consequence of official U.S. government policy. By contrast, most of the Americans killed by Muslims were the victims of non-state terrorist groups such as al Qaeda or the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan. Americans should also bear in mind that the figures reported above omit the Arabs and Muslims killed by Israel in Lebanon, Gaza, and the West Bank. Given our generous and unconditional support for Israel's policy towards the Arab world in general and the Palestinians in particular, Muslims rightly hold us partly responsible for those victims too. "
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/images/091130_walt_chart.png
If these muslims terrorists had our military capabilities they would have killed 50,000,000 of us.
Always ask yourself "What would Attilla the Hun have done to Saudi Arabia after 9/11". Attilla would have gone to that part of Saudi Arabia where 15 of the 19 terrorists came from and killed every living thing.
The muslims terrorists think like Attilla. Let them get the nuke in Pakistan or Iran and watch what happens.
newtothegame
12-04-2009, 03:37 AM
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/11/30/why_they_hate_us_ii_how_many_muslims_has_the_us_ki lled_in_the_past_30_years
"If the United States wants to improve its image in the Islamic world," he said, "it should stop killing Muslims."
"Now I don't think the issue is quite that simple, but the comment got me thinking: How many Muslims has the United States killed in the past thirty years, and how many Americans have been killed by Muslims? Coming up with a precise answer to this question is probably impossible, but it is also not necessary, because the rough numbers are so clearly lopsided.
Here's my back-of-the-envelope analysis, based on estimates deliberately chosen to favor the United States. Specifically, I have taken the low estimates of Muslim fatalities, along with much more reliable figures for U.S. deaths.
....Yet if you really want to know "why they hate us," the numbers presented above cannot be ignored. Even if we view these figures with skepticism and discount the numbers a lot, the fact remains that the United States has killed a very large number of Arab or Muslim individuals over the past three decades. Even though we had just cause and the right intentions in some cases (as in the first Gulf War), our actions were indefensible (maybe even criminal) in others.
It is also striking to observe that virtually all of the Muslim deaths were the direct or indirect consequence of official U.S. government policy. By contrast, most of the Americans killed by Muslims were the victims of non-state terrorist groups such as al Qaeda or the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan. Americans should also bear in mind that the figures reported above omit the Arabs and Muslims killed by Israel in Lebanon, Gaza, and the West Bank. Given our generous and unconditional support for Israel's policy towards the Arab world in general and the Palestinians in particular, Muslims rightly hold us partly responsible for those victims too. "
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/images/091130_walt_chart.png
The problem with this little chart, is it doesnt begin to represent that real story. If we are to believe its about numbers posed in your chart, then dates on same said chart are relevant. Earliest date shown on chart....1983 where 300 american soldiers and diplomats were killed. I guess, based on this chart that you were kind enough to give us for "proof", the assumption has to be made that the muslims STARTED the killings in 1983. I guess they would of just loved had that gone without consequence?
As another poster so appropriately stated...don't start a fight if your not ready for the consequences.
We have killed/maimed/incapacitated 100 x MORE Muslim and Arab CIVILIANS than they have our civilians.
Due to "official policy".
Couple that with invading their territory to aquire natural resources starting back at the period in history known as 'The Great Game". BTW, Winston Churchill led the brits in invading Iraq back before WWI. Do you honestly think they did it to liberate anyone other than the oil?
PaceAdvantage
12-04-2009, 06:43 AM
We have killed/maimed/incapacitated 100 x MORE Muslim and Arab CIVILIANS than they have our civilians.
Due to "official policy".
Couple that with invading their territory to aquire natural resources starting back at the period in history known as 'The Great Game". BTW, Winston Churchill led the brits in invading Iraq back before WWI. Do you honestly think they did it to liberate anyone other than the oil?You would think that if what you say was indeed the truth, that after years and years of the evil United States reigning death and terror upon their heads, these phenomenally WEALTHY oil producing nations should have been able to at least PURCHASE a means to defend themselves by now.
How is it these wealthy oil kingdoms haven't banded together and purchased/created a defense force able to beat back the wicked US aggressors?
lsbets
12-04-2009, 07:34 AM
This thread is proof that the left on here has less intellectual capacity than my 18 month old. Simpletons are not capable of thinking or analyzing much of anything, but then again, these guys still fall for the greatest hoax of all time, global warming.
We have killed/maimed/incapacitated 100 x MORE Muslim and Arab CIVILIANS than they have our civilians.
GOOD!
WE NEED TO STEP IT UP.
I reminds you, WE do not launch terror attacks. We respond to them.
What kind a man are you to even suggest crap like this?
The Judge
12-04-2009, 09:00 AM
Nuclear weapons states, warhead numbers[12] and policy
Country Active Total First test NPT CTBT
United States 2623 9400 1945 Trinity Yes Signed
Russia (USSR) 4718 13000 1949RDS-1 Yes Ratified
United Kingdom<160 185 1952 Hurricane Yes Ratified
France ~300 300 1960 Gerboise Bleue Yes Ratified
China ~180 240 1964 596 Yes Signed
India n.a. 60–80 1974 Smiling Buddha No No
Israel (opaque) n.a. 80 1979? Vela Incident No Signed
Pakistan n.a. 70-90 1998 Chagai-I No No
North Korea n.a. <10 2006 2006 test Quit No
All numbers are estimates from the Natural Resources Defense Council, published in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists,
We should give Afghanistan some nukes, too. :rolleyes:
Greyfox
12-04-2009, 10:18 AM
Hcap, tut tut.
My back of the envelope analysis tells me that Muslims kill more Muslims than any other group. The radical Islamicists believe that if you don't think the way they do you are an infidel. That includes other Muslims and other religions. It has nothing to do with killing them.
Their expressed goal is to kill you whether you love them or hate them.
They don't hate Americans because Americans have killed some of them.
They hate anyone who doesn't think the way they do.
They represent a threat to their stone age religion which allows no interpretation of the Koran. In one day, Mohammed cut off the heads of 800 infidels until he could no longer lift his sword. The true believers who are adherents to the literal ways of the Koran hate you if you do not accept literal translations of the Koran. There is no room for debate and interpretation. None.
Muslims who challenge anything other than literal interpretations are considered infidels as well. Hence Muslims kill more Muslims than any other group.
Greyfox
12-04-2009, 10:34 AM
Further to what I said in the above post:
From http://wasteofmyoxygen.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/staggering-statistics-on-muslims-killing-muslims/
ACT has posted a set of statistics that demonstrates the real violence against Muslims (http://blog.americancongressfortruth.com/arab-israeli-fatalities-rank-49th/), it is not Jews, Christians or even America that is leading the pack in Muslim Genocide, but rather other Muslims. These numbers (almost 10 million killed by other Muslims) defy rationality and surely anyone with half a brain can see where the real problem lies. Islam may or may not be a peaceful religion, but the people who dominate the religion and are the face that the world sees as representation of the religion, surely are far from peaceful.“some 11,000,000 Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, or 0.3 percent, died during the sixty years of fighting Israel, or just 1 out of every 315 Muslim fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent of the 11 million who perished were killed by fellow Muslims.”
boxcar
12-04-2009, 10:50 AM
[QUOTE=Greyfox]Further to what I said in the above post:
From http://wasteofmyoxygen.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/staggering-statistics-on-muslims-killing-muslims/
Knowing 'cap, he may applaud the extremists for killing other Muslims because that would just leave more extremists to go unchecked to kill Americans (who, of course, deserve to die anyway).
Boxcar
Black Ruby
12-04-2009, 11:02 AM
GOOD!
WE NEED TO STEP IT UP.
I reminds you, WE do not launch terror attacks. We respond to them.
What kind a man are you to even suggest crap like this?
So invading and occupying a country under false pretenses isn't an act of terror?
That would be, but it did not happen.
There never was a peace treaty signed from the gulf war. SH agreed to terms of a cease fire. By firing on US planes in the no-fly zone, he violated the terms of the cease fire. WE were 100% justified in resuming military action.
I have said that all along - that was all the reason we needed.
bigmack
12-04-2009, 11:19 AM
Hasn't hcap started a thread like this about 4 other times?
Look what we did for France and they still hate us. Look at the 29 million dead from the actions of Mao and we had some loon in the WH quoting him as one of the great thinkers of our time.
How many civilian deaths in the Russian/Afghan War? 670,000-1mil. They must really hate Russians.
Black Ruby
12-04-2009, 11:39 AM
That would be, but it did not happen.
There never was a peace treaty signed from the gulf war. SH agreed to terms of a cease fire. By firing on US planes in the no-fly zone, he violated the terms of the cease fire. WE were 100% justified in resuming military action.
I have said that all along - that was all the reason we needed.
That's not the reason the American people were given for the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Remember the "they have nukes and can fire them in 45 minutes" crap? Of course India, Pakistan, and Israel developed nuclear weapons on the sly and haven't signed the NPT, yet we haven't invaded and occupied their countries. What does Iraq have that they don't????
cj's dad
12-04-2009, 11:42 AM
H'cap conveniently forgot Billy Clintons bombing of that notorious chemical weapons factory in the Sudan, code name "the blue dress diversion"
you know, the aspirin factory.
Surely some mooselims were killed there. :jump:
That's not the reason the American people were given for the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Remember the "they have nukes and can fire them in 45 minutes" crap? Of course India, Pakistan, and Israel developed nuclear weapons on the sly and haven't signed the NPT, yet we haven't invaded and occupied their countries. What does Iraq have that they don't????
They had a dictator who stole the government, invaded a neighboring country, used chemical weapons on his own people, refused to cooperate with the UN on his nuclear program, and was funding suicide bombers families.
What' your take on Obama murdering innocent people with drones?
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/11/30/why_they_hate_us_ii_how_many_muslims_has_the_us_ki lled_in_the_past_30_years
"If the United States wants to improve its image in the Islamic world," he said, "it should stop killing Muslims."
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/images/091130_walt_chart.png
What kind of a man are you, hcap? Seriously. What kind of a lowlife would use that 100,00 deaths due to UN sanctions and try to blame it on us? What kind of low is that stupid to try to blame that on us? IT was SH who refused to allow his own people to have what they needed while he sat on a golden toilet and made millions off several Euro-trash counties with the illegal oil deals?
What kind of sick, twisted mind can come up with such total nonsense as that and still call himself an American.?
How low can you go, dude? Have you no shame?
boxcar
12-04-2009, 12:53 PM
They had a dictator who stole the government, invaded a neighboring country, used chemical weapons on his own people, refused to cooperate with the UN on his nuclear program, and was funding suicide bombers families.
What' your take on Obama murdering innocent people with drones?
BR conveniently forgets the gazillion U.N. resolutions that SH ignored. I guess that many wasn't enough. We should have waited 20 more years at least. :rolleyes:
Boxcar
Show Me the Wire
12-04-2009, 12:58 PM
The traditional Muslim/Arab world hates us because they have been conditioned to hate us. We are the deflection for the oppression and misery heaped upon them by their rulers and leaders.
They are told by their religious leaders and rulers it is not the country's rulers or the people's leaders fault for the oppression and missery, the oppression and missery result from foreign intervention. The U.S. makes us oppress our people for the U.S.' benefit. :bang: :bang:
TrifectaMike
12-04-2009, 01:03 PM
We have killed/maimed/incapacitated 100 x MORE Muslim and Arab CIVILIANS than they have our civilians.
Due to "official policy".
A typical liberal position... If we had equal casualties, that is equal outcomes, it would all be ok.
Your stats are irrelevant. They engaged in the killing game, and the outcome sucks for them.
Let's equalize the number of casualties, and we would all live in harmony. I think not. The hatred started prior to any causualities and will continue, until they wean themselves off hate and the goal of a "muslim" planet Earth.
Mike
GaryG
12-04-2009, 01:27 PM
With a weak empty suit in the white house the muslim jihadists will get bolder and bolder. The are not worried about a serious atack, just more of the Vietnam-style fighting with one hand behind our back. The result of this will almost surely be Israel bombing the living piss out of Iran's nuke facilities. Like they did 20 years ago against the French-built nuke in Baghdad. And then, the ball will open.
You would think that if what you say was indeed the truth, that after years and years of the evil United States reigning death and terror upon their heads, these phenomenally WEALTHY oil producing nations should have been able to at least PURCHASE a means to defend themselves by now.
How is it these wealthy oil kingdoms haven't banded together and purchased/created a defense force able to beat back the wicked US aggressors?
Ok, i will play, WHy is it in your "reality" that this has not come to pass ???
Right now, I put our future in the hands of Israel, not the USA.
They will not strike. They will talk , but they will not overtly strike.
There may someday be an accident , but no overt strike is coming.
Our and thus their masters do not see it , yet, in the best interests of those masters.
woodtoo
12-04-2009, 02:27 PM
islamic terror attacks since 911...14,465
from Nov.21 to Nov.27..attacks 30...dead 102...critically injured 206
month Nov....attacks 156...countries 15...dead 909 ...critically injured 2024
religion of peace or religion of pieces ? :eek:
CyberBet
12-04-2009, 02:36 PM
Thank you hcap for posting this!
This goes to show what a great job our men and women in uniform are truly doing! I am just happy we finally decided to fight back after years of doing nothing. While others tried and are trying to destroy what so many gave their lives to defend, our government did nothing. i am just glad to know we finally woke up to reality.
I agree with Tom..we need to step it up!
I do believe the following quote applies to this thread.
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
George S. Patton
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
boxcar
12-04-2009, 03:35 PM
The traditional Muslim/Arab world hates us because they have been conditioned to hate us. We are the deflection for the oppression and misery heaped upon them by their rulers and leaders.
They are told by their religious leaders and rulers it is not the country's rulers or the people's leaders fault for the oppression and missery, the oppression and missery result from foreign intervention. The U.S. makes us oppress our people for the U.S.' benefit. :bang: :bang:
Exactly! It's the blame game. It's always someone else's fault. This current administration is playing this game to the hilt right now domestically by putting all the blame for our economic woes on the private sector, including the dismal unemployment figures. Government is never, never, never, never, never, ever wrong. Government can do no wrong. Government is god. Government always points the finger at someone else -- and that someone is always the private sector. Same game. Different cast of characters.
Boxcar
Maybe more of them would be alive today if they hated the right people.
HUSKER55
12-04-2009, 03:39 PM
Hey guys, girls and hcap, if America is such a terrible place then why don't you go home and leave us Americans alone. I don't think the balance of Americans care what you do on your own turf but when you mess with ours it is different.
Why is that such a difficult concept.
I vote we send the united nations to to iraq or afghanistan and "let them work their magic" without the US. Bring our troops home, sit back and do nothing.
Would that work for everybody? If Americans are so evil then let us with-draw all support, of ALL kinds and just stay home and keep everyone else out.
No more free trade zones, no more food exports, no more money in times of trouble. Nope, nothing, nada. No medical supplies,... nothing,..not even a glass of water.
I would like to know if that would make everyone happy? I would really like to know how you would deal with these muslim terrorists.
just curious
vBulletin® v3.8.9, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.