Four Cops Executed in Seattle

[Quagmire]

Terrible news out of Seattle as it appears the murderer of the four police officers was an ex-con who had his 99 year prison sentence commuted by former Arkansas governor and current Fox new personality Mike Huckabee.

When will these politicians finally walk the walk and not just talk the talk and stop releasing these hardened criminals on society so they can resume their lives of crime?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577765,00.html

[Tom]

He was returned to prison in 2004, so how did he get back out?
While I agree, Huckey is a dipstick, there is a lot of blame to go around on this one.

Maybe we should increase the use of the death penalty.

[exactaplayer]

Too bad it wasn't a Dem gov that granted clemency, faux would have a field day. :D

[lamboguy]

Too bad it wasn't a Dem gov that granted clemency, faux would have a field day. :Dfox and nbc are blame game machines. the ones who really are at fault are us. we allow these nuts to run around the streets and this is how we pay for this luxury. we allow broken family's, we let doctor's practice bad medicine, and we let our food company's sell bad food. we polute our air with bad chemicals, and ruin our water supply's with toxic wastes. we constantly upset the balance of nature. all this in the name of someone making economic games at the cost of all the world inhabitants.

[boxcar]

fox and nbc are blame game machines. the ones who really are at fault are us. we allow these nuts to run around the streets and this is how we pay for this luxury. we allow broken family's, we let doctor's practice bad medicine, and we let our food company's sell bad food. we polute our air with bad chemicals, and ruin our water supply's with toxic wastes. we constantly upset the balance of nature. all this in the name of someone making economic games at the cost of all the world inhabitants.

And your solution to all these problems is....bigger, more controlling, more regulating, more powerful, more oppressive, more tyrannical government? Should government dictate to us how we should live every aspect of our lives?

Boxcar
P.S. Why haven't you worked on that Government Bill of Rights? That should be interesting reading.

[boxcar]

Too bad it wasn't a Dem gov that granted clemency, faux would have a field day. :D

It might as well have been. Hucky is nothing but a RINO.

Boxcar

[cj's dad]

Too bad it wasn't a Dem gov that granted clemency, faux would have a field day. :D

Interesting to note that this situation (i.e. - 4 murdered police officers) is prompting you to post a laughing emoticon.

[ArlJim78]

The best news over the long weekend was where I read that Huckabee said that it was "less than likely" that he'd run for president, and that was before the news broke about this guy shooting the cops. I've no problem with Huck making folksy radio commentary or hosting a talk show, but as a presidential candidate I don't care for him at all.

[kenwoodallpromos]

And your solution to all these problems is....bigger, more controlling, more regulating, more powerful, more oppressive, more tyrannical government? Should government dictate to us how we should live every aspect of our lives?

Boxcar
P.S. Why haven't you worked on that Government Bill of Rights? That should be interesting reading.
No- WE do not do this, we allow the big business/political coalition to. And a bigger, more controlling, more regulating, more powerful, more oppressive, more tyrannical government aimed toward big business would have my approval instead of the current and past weaker, less controlling, less regulating, less powerful, more recessive, more pork-enhanced favoring of big business over everyone else.
You can argue the justice system attempts to put as many people in the system as long as possible in or out of prison (including arole and probation) to support big business-run prisons and "Prison Industries" whjich supply a great deal of Govt bougt household products, overcrowding prisons and allowing situations to cause these types to be out.
"http://www.unicor.gov/" Many states use the same name "prison industries" as you will see by Googling the term. This is the ultimate in cheap labor to unfairly compete with real business for Govt AND private sales.
Very few people do the full time when doing the crime; and parole and probation rules are overeaching but nonetheless a joke due to unenforceability. Maybe if those convicted did enough time on the front end there would be less criminals running around on booze and chemically made drugs and committing non-violent crimes until they get unlucky and get caught again and again. Prison IS big business!!

[exactaplayer]

Interesting to note that this situation (i.e. - 4 murdered police officers) is prompting you to post a laughing emoticon.
Interesting to note that you noticed the emoticon and missed the message. Must be a faux viewer :D

[lsbets]

Interesting to note that this situation (i.e. - 4 murdered police officers) is prompting you to post a laughing emoticon.

Completely unsurprising given the dirtbag's history.

[boxcar]

No- WE do not do this, we allow the big business/political coalition to. And a bigger, more controlling, more regulating, more powerful, more oppressive, more tyrannical government aimed toward big business would have my approval instead of the current and past weaker, less controlling, less regulating, less powerful, more recessive, more pork-enhanced favoring of big business over everyone else.

And this will happen when? When hell freezes over -- maybe? Do you really believe for a nanosecond that government is going to place the people's best interests above its own? Who can stuff the government's pockets better and fatter? Businesses in the private sector or us peons? You tell me. What the people need to do is get government out of the way. We need to arrange for a permanent divorce, as it were, between government and businesses. As stated often on this forum, this is a match made in the pit of hell and can only result in fascism! Government creates far, far more problems than it is capable of solving or even wants to solve because it's not in its best interests to solve them. The People have no chance to survive or escape the evil clutches of tyranny and oppression as long as this unholy marriage lasts. Limited government is the answer, not Unlimited! If you're in such favor of Unlimited government, there are many countries on this planet in which you'd, perhaps, feel more comfortable.

Boxcar

[lamboguy]

And your solution to all these problems is....bigger, more controlling, more regulating, more powerful, more oppressive, more tyrannical government? Should government dictate to us how we should live every aspect of our lives?

Boxcar
P.S. Why haven't you worked on that Government Bill of Rights? That should be interesting reading.no you are mixing me up with the guy that was on fox news the other day.

[johnhannibalsmith]

The best news over the long weekend was where I read that Huckabee said that it was "less than likely" that he'd run for president, and that was before the news broke about this guy shooting the cops. I've no problem with Huck making folksy radio commentary or hosting a talk show, but as a presidential candidate I don't care for him at all.

I have no problem with him hosting a TV show as well... as long as the remote is well within arm's reach... awful...

[ArlJim78]

I have no problem with him hosting a TV show as well... as long as the remote is well within arm's reach... awful...
well that goes without saying, I don't watch his show either. i guess I was just saying i think he's found his niche.

[boxcar]

no you are mixing me up with the guy that was on fox news the other day.

Well then...liberals do manage to get an airing on FNC, don't they? Someone once told me that FNC only had on hardcore Righties 100% of the time. ;)

Boxcar

[lamboguy]

Well then...liberals do manage to get an airing on FNC, don't they? Someone once told me that FNC only had on hardcore Righties 100% of the time. ;)

BoxcarFOX news is like any other news operation, their job is to get add revenue, and as much of it as they can get. the way they get it is to present programing that would attract the advertisers to their watchers. its not right, left, conservetive or liberal, its strickly MONEY. they are driven by MONEY.

[Tom]

Interesting to note that this situation (i.e. - 4 murdered police officers) is prompting you to post a laughing emoticon.

Brought to by the Boots on the ground guy.

[boxcar]

FOX news is like any other news operation, their job is to get add revenue, and as much of it as they can get. the way they get it is to present programing that would attract the advertisers to their watchers. its not right, left, conservetive or liberal, its strickly MONEY. they are driven by MONEY.

You might wanna rethink that reasoning because the low rated news stations keep reporting their lopsided, biased drivel day-in day-out and keep getting the same low ratings, which aren't conducive to attracting advertisers. Compared to Fox, many of those stations probably sell their advertising at discounted rates just to get new companies' business and keep the old ones!

Fox is smart. Instead of joining the sheeple stations that report the same ol', same ol' liberal-driven drivel every day, they have broken away from the herd to become the leader of the pack by offering something quite different. Their ratings tell us this strategy is working. And I betcha those high ratings create quite a demand from advertisers and, consequently, higher advertising fees.

Boxcar

[kenwoodallpromos]

And this will happen when? When hell freezes over -- maybe? Do you really believe for a nanosecond that government is going to place the people's best interests above its own? Who can stuff the government's pockets better and fatter? Businesses in the private sector or us peons? You tell me. What the people need to do is get government out of the way. We need to arrange for a permanent divorce, as it were, between government and businesses. As stated often on this forum, this is a match made in the pit of hell and can only result in fascism! Government creates far, far more problems than it is capable of solving or even wants to solve because it's not in its best interests to solve them. The People have no chance to survive or escape the evil clutches of tyranny and oppression as long as this unholy marriage lasts. Limited government is the answer, not Unlimited! If you're in such favor of Unlimited government, there are many countries on this planet in which you'd, perhaps, feel more comfortable.

Boxcar
"tyrannical government aimed toward big business would have my approval instead of the current..."
I need to learn to use shorter sentences to make my point! Sorry!
But even less Govt (=favoring of big business) is my 2nd choice!!

[Bochall]

Wasnt this thread about a tragic murder of four brave officers? We seem to let our politics trickle into everything. Yes, Huckabee should not have let him out in the first place (see Dukakis and Willie Horton), but how did he get out AGAIN after the 2004 arrest? That to me is the real issue...if your sentence is commuted as Huckabee did, are you not subject to the rules of a parolee? Is he free with no strings attached?

[cj's dad]

When will the phrase "will be investigated as a hate crime" be brought about.

Oh, that's right, silly me, that's a >>>>> way street.

[lamboguy]

You might wanna rethink that reasoning because the low rated news stations keep reporting their lopsided, biased drivel day-in day-out and keep getting the same low ratings, which aren't conducive to attracting advertisers. Compared to Fox, many of those stations probably sell their advertising at discounted rates just to get new companies' business and keep the old ones!

Fox is smart. Instead of joining the sheeple stations that report the same ol', same ol' liberal-driven drivel every day, they have broken away from the herd to become the leader of the pack by offering something quite different. Their ratings tell us this strategy is working. And I betcha those high ratings create quite a demand from advertisers and, consequently, higher advertising fees.

Boxcarexactly, if liberal ideas sold they would push those. they haven't sold for as long as i can remember. the liberal stations keep going broke.

also the bulk of people that claim to be liberal are only liberal when it comes to others, when it comes to themselves they are pobably more conservetive than those that admit they are.

[skate]

No- WE do not do this, we allow the big business/political coalition to. And a bigger, more controlling, more regulating, more powerful, more oppressive, more tyrannical government aimed toward big business would have my approval instead of the current and past weaker, less controlling, less regulating, less powerful, more recessive, more pork-enhanced favoring of big business over everyone else.
You can argue the justice system attempts to put as many people in the system as long as possible in or out of prison (including arole and probation) to support big business-run prisons and "Prison Industries" whjich supply a great deal of Govt bougt household products, overcrowding prisons and allowing situations to cause these types to be out.
"http://www.unicor.gov/" Many states use the same name "prison industries" as you will see by Googling the term. This is the ultimate in cheap labor to unfairly compete with real business for Govt AND private sales.
Very few people do the full time when doing the crime; and parole and probation rules are overeaching but nonetheless a joke due to unenforceability. Maybe if those convicted did enough time on the front end there would be less criminals running around on booze and chemically made drugs and committing non-violent crimes until they get unlucky and get caught again and again. Prison IS big business!!


Ok ok , fine. I think what you say is well done.

Now maybe, just maybe "it's all me". But here is the way it hits me.

You've got an omelet ( omnibus) and you want the omelet back in the shell, whole again.
It can be done.

[boxcar]

exactly, if liberal ideas sold they would push those. they haven't sold for as long as i can remember. the liberal stations keep going broke.

also the bulk of people that claim to be liberal are only liberal when it comes to others, when it comes to themselves they are pobably more conservetive than those that admit they are.

This last paragraph is one of the smartest things you have ever said. (And I don't mean that as an insult.)

Boxcar

[cj's dad]

Clemens shot dead this morning !!


Saves the taxpayers of Washington millions of $$$$$

[Quagmire]

Clemens shot dead this morning !!


Saves the taxpayers of Washington millions of $$$$$

:ThmbUp:

[Tom]

Tuesday is trash day - that SOB got exactly what he deserved.
Hope he lingered in great pain for a while.

Now they need to round up everyone who helped him escape and make sure they are prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law.

[ArlJim78]

sounding like Howard Cosell;

Down goes Clemons, Down goes Clemons.

[delayjf]

Too bad it wasn't a Dem gov that granted clemency, faux would have a field day.

At least they covered the story, if the roles were reversed I doubt the story would have seen the light of day. Clinton pardons terrorist, and the left has a crush on Bill Ayers, someone who had he been successful killed probably more than 4 Police Officers.

[BlueShoe]

Clemens shot dead this morning !!
Coming soon from the Jesse & Al victimology apologist crowd;accusations of "racism" and "murder" directed toward the person that ended this evil mans criminal career.Howls of outrage "because he was shot and not captured",etc.,ad nauseum.

[Bochall]

Coming soon from the Jesse & Al victimology apologist crowd;accusations of "racism" and "murder" directed toward the person that ended this evil mans criminal career.Howls of outrage "because he was shot and not captured",etc.,ad nauseum.

If this doesn't happen it is you who will appear to be the racist, but lets wait and see huh?

[BlueShoe]

If this doesn't happen it is you who will appear to be the racist, but lets wait and see huh?
After decades of observing just the type of posturing that was mentioned I have become cynical about such matters and have no patience for such nonsense.Not racism,just experience.

[Tom]

I am waiting for the "Just Us" Brothers to weigh in. :D

[kingfin66]

He won't be killing any more cops, robbing anybody else, raping children, or otherwise engaging in violent criminal acts.It should also be noted that my community will be spared a trial. Law enforcement is now rounding up those that aided and abetted him. Too bad they aren't laying by his side.

[Tom]

I heard they patched him up with duct tape?
And he was drawing on another cop when he went down.

What was his problem to begin all this?

[cj's dad]

The murderers' ties to the Muslim community will soon begin to trickle out.

[trying2win]

Tuesday is trash day - that SOB got exactly what he deserved.
Hope he lingered in great pain for a while. :ThmbUp:

-Yeah....good riddance to Maurice Clemmons, the scum!


T2W

[trying2win]

May I also add a prayer for the family members of the four slain police officers in this case.

And God bless the police officer who shot Clemmons dead. This police officer did society a big favor in my opinion.


T2W

[PaceAdvantage]

Coming soon from the Jesse & Al victimology apologist crowd;accusations of "racism" and "murder" directed toward the person that ended this evil mans criminal career.Howls of outrage "because he was shot and not captured",etc.,ad nauseum.I guarantee you even the names you mentioned wouldn't dare touch this one with a ten foot pole...even they wouldn't be able to justify that kind of silliness.

[hazzardm]

The murderers' ties to the Muslim community will soon begin to trickle out.

BEEEP, wrong answer .....

Seems part of his prison release via clemency may have been tied to his supposed Christian learnings.

Nearly 10 years ago, Maurice Clemmons pledged to make a fresh start. "I come from a very good Christian family and I was raised much better than my actions speak," Clemmons said in a clemency application brief to then-Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee in 2000.

[Bochall]

The murderers' ties to the Muslim community will soon begin to trickle out.

Do you have proof of his Muslim ties or are ya just guessing??? If no proof or hint that he has ties to Islam is there then you are being ridiculous and damaging. See the previous post. It is this kind of garbage speculation (like the poster who's just waiting for black leaders to condemn his killing as racist) that makes me lose faith in some of my fellow Americans. Not saying that ya'll may not eventually be right, but to draw these lines based on "experience" and with no proof is really just ridiculous.

[boxcar]

BEEEP, wrong answer .....

Seems part of his prison release via clemency may have been tied to his supposed Christian learnings.

Nearly 10 years ago, Maurice Clemmons pledged to make a fresh start. "I come from a very good Christian family and I was raised much better than my actions speak," Clemmons said in a clemency application brief to then-Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee in 2000.

Yeah, just like BO has ties to "supposed Christian learnings"? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Bochall]

And heeeeeeeeeeere's Boxcar to turn yet another thread into an Obama shot. Who so ever diggeth a pit shall fall in it, and you are digging hard beb.

[hazzardm]

Yeah, just like BO has ties to "supposed Christian learnings"? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

Not much mention of Islam in this story ...

Prosecutors have said Huckabee, a Southern Baptist preacher, was more inclined to release or reduce the sentences of prisoners if he had direct contact with them or was lobbied by those close to him. Clemmons' letter perhaps appealed to Huckabee's Christian faith.

In his application for clemency, Clemmons wrote that he prayed Huckabee would show him compassion and said at the time of his crimes he had just moved to Arkansas from Seattle. Clemmons also wrote that he had changed his life since "the angel of death has visited and taken away my dear sweet mother."

[Quagmire]

Christian or muslim he should have never been on the streets.

Clemmons moved from Washington to Arkansas as a youngster. There, he had several run-ins with the law, and eventually received the hefty prison sentence for a host of charges -- including robberies, burglaries, thefts and bringing a gun to school.
During a pretrial hearing, he hid a piece of metal in his sock, court documents said. Before the start of another hearing, he grabbed a padlock off his holding cell and threw it at a court bailiff. He missed, and the lock hit his mother, who had come to bring him clothes.
"That's the one word that came to my mind that I remembered about him, was that he was mean," said W.A. McCormick, a deputy prosecuting attorney at the time. "He was shackled in court and deputies placed behind him while he was tried because he was such a security risk."
Clemmons continued to lash out violently behind the prison fences in Pine Bluff, Arkansas.
"Over and over again," said Larry Jegley, the prosecutor who put Clemmons away.
"Failure to obey, engaging in sexual activity," he rattled off the charges as he flipped through Clemmons' prison record, "failure to obey, possession or introduction of drugs, firearms."
McCormick said he told the parole board -- repeatedly, in writing -- that Clemmons should remain in prison. And he would have opposed it once again if he had known that Huckabee was considering commuting Clemmons' sentence.

[hazzardm]

Again no mention of Islam, just Baptist pastor .....

A pastor, radio commentator and conservative political activist in Fayetteville, Ark., named Jay Cole organized other evangelicals in the state to lobby Huckabee for Dumond's release. Cole was a friend of the governor's.

Huckabee's behind-the-scenes efforts to pressure the Clinton-appointed parole board to set Dumond free won praise from right-wing politicians and pundits, who claimed the convicted rapist had been framed by the Clintons' political machine.



http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/4605/53/

[Robert Goren]

No Muslims in this story, just a very evil man playing a Christian for a fool. Huckabee has earned a little respect from me for owning up and saying he had read the entire thick file. Most politicians would have blamed it on their staff.

[BlueShoe]

I guarantee you even the names you mentioned wouldn't dare touch this one with a ten foot pole...even they wouldn't be able to justify that kind of silliness.
Perhaps not,but the Rev. Jeremiah Wright just might.Any remarks from him?But then again,perhaps he has been advised by his most famous parishioner to stay away from this one.

[PaceAdvantage]

And heeeeeeeeeeere's Boxcar to turn yet another thread into an Obama shot. Who so ever diggeth a pit shall fall in it, and you are digging hard beb.Funny, I used to say the same thing to hcap and 46zilzal whenever they would come around and turn yet another thread into a Bush shot...weird how karma works...:lol:

[Bochall]

Funny, I used to say the same thing to hcap and 46zilzal whenever they would come around and turn yet another thread into a Bush shot...weird how karma works...:lol:


I agree, but dont stoop to conquer.

[boxcar]

Not much mention of Islam in this story ...

Prosecutors have said Huckabee, a Southern Baptist preacher, was more inclined to release or reduce the sentences of prisoners if he had direct contact with them or was lobbied by those close to him. Clemmons' letter perhaps appealed to Huckabee's Christian faith.

In his application for clemency, Clemmons wrote that he prayed Huckabee would show him compassion and said at the time of his crimes he had just moved to Arkansas from Seattle. Clemmons also wrote that he had changed his life since "the angel of death has visited and taken away my dear sweet mother."

I strongly suspect from what I have heard out of Huckabee's own mouth and what he stands for politically that at best he's a nominal Christian. AT BEST! Huck to me sounds like he could well belong to this group or self-deceived professing believers:

Matt 7:15-23
15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits. 21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'
NASB

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

I do not agree with all of Huckabee's beliefs, But I do not doubt for a minute that he is a Christian and that he is sincere in what he believes.

[GaryG]

Too bad they aren't all laid out in the morgue.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579351,00.html?test=latestnews

[boxcar]

I do not agree with all of Huckabee's beliefs, But I do not doubt for a minute that he is a Christian and that he is sincere in what he believes.

Why? Why do you believe so strongly that he's a Christian? Because he says so? Because he was a pastor? Why? Do you know this man personally? Or is all your faith in him blind and, therefore, irrational?

Boxcar

[Bochall]

Boxcar...please re-read your last post. You have lost it completely. How do you type so well with those boxing gloves on? When you lash out at folks with your insults it really says more about you than it does about anyone else. What was the cause of that post in regard to Rob G? This is psych 101. I could teach a class with your stuff, and i am not talking about Bible study. Peace, shalom, selah.

[Robert Goren]

Why? Why do you believe so strongly that he's a Christian? Because he says so? Because he was a pastor? Why? Do you know this man personally? Or is all your faith in him blind and, therefore, irrational?

BoxcarI actually believe that most people are what they say they are until they are proven otherwise. I do not agree with him on a whole lot of political issues and some theological ones, but I have seen no reason not to believe he is a Christian. One thing I put a very high value is owning up to your mistakes ( And heaven knows like most people I have made a great many). He has done that, at least, in this cop killer case. Perhaps you could tell me what makes you think he is a fraud. I do know that there some people who call themselves Christians who are complete frauds. Pat Robertson is one who comes to mind.
One more thing I thought being a Chistian is all about Blind Faith. There is no science that proves the Bible is God's word. It is only in your heart that you can know.

[boxcar]

Boxcar...please re-read your last post. You have lost it completely. How do you type so well with those boxing gloves on? When you lash out at folks with your insults it really says more about you than it does about anyone else. What was the cause of that post in regard to Rob G? This is psych 101. I could teach a class with your stuff, and i am not talking about Bible study. Peace, shalom, selah.

Asking the chap questions is insulting? Even if they're pointed questions?

Boxcar
P.S. If you tried to teach a class on insults using that post, you'd be ridiculed and chased out of town. And I'm the one losing it? :rolleyes:

[boxcar]

I actually believe that most people are what they say they are until they are proven otherwise.

Then, sir, may I suggest that you're swimming upstream from all human experience. Universal Experience teaches us (or at least it should) that Man is presumed Untrustworthy until proven otherwise. I wrote a post about this topic several months ago -- maybe a year ago. This presumption of untrustworthy is an irrefutable fact. You might want to ponder this axiom and/or look up my post -- or best yet, do both. Therefore, since your belief system or world view seems to fly in the face of this Universal Experience or Natural Revelation (as I like to call it) of Reality as we all know it, and isn't self-evident to you (as it should be), then your faith in strangers' words is irrational because it's blind.

And, no, a Christian's faith in Christ is not blind; for the essence of eternal life is knowing God, not merely believing in him, as many would falsely believe. Yes, we believe in God and in his Christ -- but because we know him; therefore, biblical faith is rational. It is not blind. God is a person -- a personal being who can be known.

John 17:2-3
3 "And this is eternal life , that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.
NASB

And the word translated "know" in the Greek is very strong meaning close, personal, intimate knowledge -- the kind of knowledge that a husband would have of his wife, for example. Same word.

Boxcar

[Bochall]

Asking the chap questions is insulting? Even if they're pointed questions?

Boxcar
P.S. If you tried to teach a class on insults using that post, you'd be ridiculed and chased out of town. And I'm the one losing it? :rolleyes:

Its a psych class i was talking about teaching, not an insult class. Thats your department. I didnt say you were losing it, i said you've LOST it, as in its already gone.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... Universal Experience teaches us (or at least it should) that Man is presumed Untrustworthy until proven otherwise. ..... God is a person -- a personal being who can be known.
Boxcar

Not being a prick here... exactly... but I do enjoy these little back-and-forthers and figured I'd keep the ball rolling... especially since I dig Boxcar's unyielding certainty...

Did you presume God untrustworthy until you 'knew' him or did you always 'know' him or is Man different from a person?

I'm just getting so confused and yearn for clarity... I started to agree with you and then I got lost and then I disagreed and then agreed again and then just figured I needed to take a deep breath and figure out the whole Man/person/personal being/know/knew thing... :eek: :2b:

[Robert Goren]

I have taken this thread off on a tangent. For that I am sorry. I apologize to Pace Advantage, Quagmire, and the members of this forum.

[boxcar]

Its a psych class i was talking about teaching, not an insult class. Thats your department. I didnt say you were losing it, i said you've LOST it, as in its already gone.

If your were teaching a "psych class", I would be insulted. Such an exercise would be akin to the pyscho trying to teach the doctor. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Not being a prick here... exactly... but I do enjoy these little back-and-forthers and figured I'd keep the ball rolling... especially since I dig Boxcar's unyielding certainty...

Did you presume God untrustworthy until you 'knew' him or did you always 'know' him or is Man different from a person?

Prior to my conversion, I was an atheist, so God's trustworthiness was not an issue in mind; however, as I started to study the bible, it did become an issue, which the good Lord graciously settled for me.

I think your confusion could be cleared up by simply recognizing that while God and man have their personages in common, man isn't God because man is a sinner, whereas God is sinless. Man, therefore, cannot and should not be trusted until he has proven his trustworthiness; whereas the righteous God of heaven, who cannot sin, is fully deserving of all our trust.

I'm just getting so confused and yearn for clarity... I started to agree with you and then...

Oh, ye of little faith... I trust that even at this early hour, I have made everything crystal clear for you. ;)


Boxcar

[Tom]

I have taken this thread off on a tangent. For that I am sorry. I apologize to Pace Advantage, Quagmire, and the members of this forum.

In the grand scheme of things, none of us were harmed, and some of us enjoyed the ride - farfegnugen! ;)

[johnhannibalsmith]

Oh, ye of little faith... I trust that even at this early hour, I have made everything crystal clear for you. ;)

Boxcar

One more cup of coffee, two more readings and I should be good to go... :p

[Bochall]

If your were teaching a "psych class", I would be insulted. Such an exercise would be akin to the pyscho trying to teach the doctor. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

I imagine that you would be insulted as i would use your posts as examples in my class. You're a doctor? Dr Dogma i presume....???

[boxcar]

One more cup of coffee, two more readings and I should be good to go... :p

Now, I can definitely relate -- especially to the coffee part. :D

Boxcar

[boxcar]

I imagine that you would be insulted as i would use your posts as examples in my class.

Which would only prove you're delusional.

You're a doctor?

Of course. By God's grace, I have healed all who have ever listened to me.

Dr Dogma i presume....???

No...he's second cousin to Dr. No. I'm Dr. Goodall. ;)

Boxcar

[Bochall]

We do have one thing in common Box...evidently we go to sleep and wake up at about the same time eh? Getting up for my 2nd cup a joe as well....suppose we have some well charged posts coming huh?


To say you've healed all those who've ever listened to you is to make the ridiculous presumption that everyone else is sick...and not you. Back to psych 101, when you think its everyone else thats sick and needs your healing, its you who is the sick one.

[boxcar]

We do have one thing in common Box...evidently we go to sleep and wake up at about the same time eh? Getting up for my 2nd cup a joe as well....suppose we have some well charged posts coming huh?

I'm up to it if you are, even though I'm still working on my first cup.

To say you've healed all those who've ever listened to you is to make the ridiculous presumption that everyone else is sick...and not you. Back to psych 101, when you think its everyone else thats sick and needs your healing, its you who is the sick one.

You're right. You should go back to psych 101; for your premise is logically flawed. Doctors can and do get sick but still perform their work for their patients. Why would you presume that doctors have to be sick-free -- in perfect health-- to render effective treatment? This world would be in quite a pickle if doctors had to be perfect before donning their whites. In fact, their own susceptibility, their own human frailties would make them even better doctors because they would be able to better understand and empathize with their patients. This is precisely why I'm so good at what I do. ;)

And moreover, everyone is spiritually sick. Everyone. No exceptions. Not you. Not me. Not anyone. For as it is written, "All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God." "There is none righteous. No, not one."

Your turn to bat...

Boxcar

[Bochall]

I am not saying that people arent sick...i am saying that you arent the doctor.

Too many religious folk pontificate from their moral high ground when it was Jesus who was among the sufferers...not above them. Please Box, spare me the Biblical text here. In my humblest opine i think the Catholic church would secure a better following if they told man of the glory of God and not about how immoral and pathetic he is ('he' meaning man, not God). My restaurants dont tell folk how hungry they are and how they 'need to eat', we tell them how good our food is...seen?

[Bochall]

Come to think of it, someone should do a thread on the evolution of threads (i know that wont be you Box cuz you dont believe in evolution!:D...simmer, just a lil joke) cuz this thing has evolved into a different animal altogether...with my help i admit.

[boxcar]

I am not saying that people arent sick...i am saying that you arent the doctor.

No, that's not what you said. You said:

To say you've healed all those who've ever listened to you is to make the ridiculous presumption that everyone else is sick...and not you.

Nuff said because now you're in denial mode of previous statements you have made. I have no time for child's play.

Too many religious folk pontificate from their moral high ground when it was Jesus who was among the sufferers...not above them. Please Box, spare me the Biblical text here. In my humblest opine i think the Catholic church would secure a better following if they told man of the glory of God and not about how immoral and pathetic he is ('he' meaning man, not God). My restaurants dont tell folk how hungry they are and how they 'need to eat', we tell them how good our food is...seen?

But why would man be attracted to the "glory of God" lest he have a keen sense that he falls far short of that glory (per the apostle's own words)? Man must first see himself as the wretched sinner that he is before he can appreciate the glorious beauty of Christ and desire to become like him. Otherwise, man would look at himself in the mirror and be smugly satisfied with his own image lest someone opens his eyes.

Boxcar

[kingfin66]

...but I promise to be brief.

Should anybody be interested in helping the families of the four slain officers, please see this link for info (I apologize in advance if this violates TOS and understand if it needs to be deleted).

http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-120109-assistancefund,0,2935349.story


Info about the memorial service and procession.

http://www.king5.com/news/Details-of-procession-memorial-for-slain-Lakewood-police-officers-78464632.html

[Bochall]

Box, your reading comprehension is in need of help. You misread one of my very first posts on the PA site, and you continue to do so. When i said people are sick i didnt mean EVERYONE. You brought up the 'everyone' word when you said you've healed everyone who ever listened to you (i paraphrase). The only one who needs help is you and your dogmatic lot.

i suppose it will never become clear to you that you will attract more with honey than with the vinegar of damnation.

[boxcar]

Box, your reading comprehension is in need of help. You misread one of my very first posts on the PA site, and you continue to do so. When i said people are sick i didnt mean EVERYONE.

But you should have; for then you would have been on solid biblical ground.


You brought up the 'everyone' word when you said you've healed everyone who ever listened to you (i paraphrase). The only one who needs help is you and your dogmatic lot.

And what about you and your "dogmatic lot"? Are you not being dogmatic when you insist that dogma is somehow wrong? (Oh, wait...I get it now...your brand of dogma = good; my brand = bad.) Why didn't I think of this? :rolleyes:

i suppose it will never become clear to you that you will attract more with honey than with the vinegar of damnation.

How can man be desirous of the indescribable beauty,bliss and harmony the of heaven if he has no sense of what the equally indescribable misery, horrors and utter hopelessness of hell will be like? You can't keep yourself out of the same illogical trap, can you? It must be that your dogma is pushing you in the same pit constantly.

How can we look upon a person of beauty and call that person "beautiful" unless we also know what is ugly by comparison? How can we truly admire a beautiful diamond lest we can also distinguish it from an unattractive lump of coal? How could Adam and Eve have keenly felt shame of their nakedness, lest they have sinned and acquired the knowledge of Good and Evil first? How did one thief on the cross come to recognize who the Christ was that was hanging next to him, while the second thief on the other side of Christ remained in his self-absorbed, self-centered condition unmoved by this Jesus?

I rest my case. Go in peace.

Boxcar

[Tom]

...but I promise to be brief.......

Nice....:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[boxcar]

Nice....:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

Very nice indeed. Thanks, King.

Someone should send the link to Mr. Huckleberry. It would be interesting to know if he'd donate so much as a dime, since, as a professing Christian, he expressed no sorrow or compassion for the surviving families of the deceased, which I find rather odd, considering he took personal responsibility for the tragedy.

Boxcar

[Bochall]

Lets see...you know you actually posted the following: "Are you not being dogmatic when you insist that dogma is wrong"...come again..?? That is circular hooey. Without a dictionary at hand my best def of dogma or dogmatic would be a belief in something so strongly that one views it as fact.

I do not believe that man is sick. The majority..maybe so, but not individually, not EVERYONE. Thats not being dogmatic..i admit that some are sick and you say we are all sick. In fact, you insist it. Heck, you insist in everything you say...usually followed by a :rolleyes: or some petty shot at someone, like calling them a child or something. It is your INSISTANCE that makes me view you as dogmatic.

P.S.---i am not at odds with the Church, just the approach some take in trying to introduce folks to Jesus.

[boxcar]

Lets see...you know you actually posted the following: "Are you not being dogmatic when you insist that dogma is wrong"...come again..?? That is circular hooey. Without a dictionary at hand my best def of dogma or dogmatic would be a belief in something so strongly that one views it as fact.

I do not believe that man is sick. The majority..maybe so, but not individually, not EVERYONE.

It's no more "circular hooey" than the moral relativist, for example, who boldly and confidently declares there's no such thing as "absolute truth". Can you not see how such a statement would be entirely self-defeating? Likewise, when you rail against [all] "dogma" (i.e. certainty), you're implying that in the spiritual realm, anyway, at best we can only proceed with the greatest caution, for all is uncertain. Don't believe this? Look at your words above, "The majority...maybe so...". You don't sound very certain, do you? And you like it that way because you feel comfortable and protected in your self-induced blanket of thick, gray fog. (I bet you love the color "gray", right? ;) )

So then, what really is the difference between us? I'm dogmatic about the certainty of specific things based on the authority of God's word, whereas you are equally as dogmatic about the uncertainty of them based on what or whose authority...I can't even begin to imagine. Therefore, by stating your objection to my brand of dogma with your own dogmatic brand is a wee bit self-defeating. No tricks. No magic. No smoke and mirrors. Self-defeating statements are simply absurd, logically speaking.

As my man El Rushbo would say...love it, learn it, live it. ;)

Boxcar

[Bochall]

Actually, the line 'learn it, love it , live it' was uttered by Judge Reinhold to a stoned Jeff Spicoli(Sean Penn) and friends in Fast Times At Ridgemont High. That aint a Rushism...he stole it from the "Hollywood Left"...imagine that.:lol:

I said the "majority may be sick...i dont know", because i dont know. Thats not dogma. I doubt the statement that we are all sick. I doubt most statements that say we are all one thing or another. I suppose i suffer from the "dogma of the open mind" to speak in paradox.


PS-you lose cred when you quote Limbaugh. At least Beck hasnt scandalized himself with drug abuse, drug crimes etc...I suppose Rush has your forgiveness. Does Clinton? Take it easy on me today ok? I ran out of coffee and only had one cup...Insp. Clouseau said, "Cato, Cato--do not attack me tonight Cato. I am very tired Cato..."

[boxcar]

Actually, the line 'learn it, love it , live it' was uttered by Judge Reinhold to a stoned Jeff Spicoli(Sean Penn) and friends in Fast Times At Ridgemont High. That aint a Rushism...he stole it from the "Hollywood Left"...imagine that.:lol:

Whoa! You say, "stole it"? Can he go to jail for that? :rolleyes:

I said the "majority may be sick...i dont know", because i dont know. Thats not dogma

Exactly! And it is dogma whenever you tell someone else that they can't or shouldn't be dogmatic on an issue. On what logical grounds can you say such things -- except you believe that no one can be dogmatic on any spiritual matter, let's say. If this is the case, you're being dogmatic in your position, which basically says: We can only be sure of one thing -- Uncertainty. We cannot or should not be certain about anything. That is dogma. And it's self-defeating because how can you be certain that your stance or view on Uncertainty is correct!? :bang: :bang:

Boxcar
P.S. Leave my man, Rushbo alone. He's my protege. Everything he knows, he has learned from the Master, i.e. Me. ;)

[Bochall]

All this dogma talk has me feeling rather dogged...close this thread PA and put me, Box, and all those unfortunate enough to stumble upon it out of our misery!!

:( :bang: :rolleyes: :sleeping:

[boxcar]

All this dogma talk has me feeling rather dogged...close this thread PA and put me, Box, and all those unfortunate enough to stumble upon it out of our misery!!

:( :bang: :rolleyes: :sleeping:

Now, why did you go and do that? You want doggie in on this thread, too? :rolleyes:

Sorry for putting you through some mental paces. I know how tiring that can be for those not accustomed to exercising the gray matter on a regular basis. ;)

Boxcar

[Bochall]

Now, why did you go and do that? You want doggie in on this thread, too? :rolleyes:

Sorry for putting you through some mental paces. I know how tiring that can be for those not accustomed to exercising the gray matter on a regular basis. ;)

Boxcar

My chess rating is 1722...my gray matter is well exercised.

SHUT 'ER DOWN PA!!

[boxcar]

My chess rating is 1722...my gray matter is well exercised.

And your point is? Since you bragged on only your "chess rating", this might well account for your poor showing in our little exchanges. Just as physical fitness requires far more than just one or two exercises for well rounded development so, too, does mental fitness. Something you may want to keep in mind... ;)

SHUT 'ER DOWN PA!!

Oh, oh...you're screamin'. Has one of your circuits tripped? :D

Boxcar

[Bochall]

:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:

good night


this reminds me of that cartoon on the Bugs Bunny show where the coyote and the sheep dog would bid each other good morning, punch the clock, go to war all day long and then punch out, say goodnight and do it all over again the next day...sleep tight, you'll get the sheep one day.

[boxcar]

:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:

good night

This is one of the more intelligent things you have said in this thread -- all while in snore mode, which I'm beginning to think is your normal state.

Ciao,
Boxcar
P.S. A big chess player into cartoons? Something doesn't compute here. :rolleyes: