The (Quality) Road to the Cigar?

[FenceBored]

To those who thought the Cigar Mile next Saturday was off the table for Quality Road ... don't look.

Quality Road Passes First Gate Test

...

How Quality Road handles additional stress placed on him in future sessions and how he handles a race atmosphere will determine his future this year as it pertains to the Hill ‘n’ Dale Cigar Mile Nov. 28.
-- http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/53511/quality-road-passes-first-gate-test

[toussaud]

won't hit the board.

terribly mismanged.

[PaceAdvantage]

won't hit the board.

terribly mismanged.I'd book that bet if it were legal....

[46zilzal]

The colt, an experienced racer, is telling the handlers (JUST LIKE POOR OLD LADY'S SECRET TRIED but no one listened for anything but $$$$$$ in their eyes)..."I need help.

[tucker6]

The colt, an experienced racer, is telling the handlers (JUST LIKE POOR OLD LADY'S SECRET TRIED but no one listened for anything but $$$$$$ in their eyes)..."I need help.
well, in all fairness, they did listen after she jumped into the stands and started drinking Mai Tai's with the hat crowd.

[Grits]

He had 3000 miles and the width of an entire continent to think about it. Maybe he figures, "well damn, I'd better get my act together and show these boys I CAN still run. That is . . . if I choose to. If I'm in the mood."

Smart fella; what an absolute handful.

[PaceAdvantage]

The colt, an experienced racer, is telling the handlers (JUST LIKE POOR OLD LADY'S SECRET TRIED but no one listened for anything but $$$$$$ in their eyes)..."I need help.Like you always say, every situation is different. Not sure how you can conclude one very bad gate incident translates into "I should never race again...."

Plenty of horses flip in the gate (which QR could have EASILY DONE) only to come back and race again successfully.

[46zilzal]

well, in all fairness, they did listen after she jumped into the stands and started drinking Mai Tai's with the hat crowd.
She began to show signs of raggedness long before her meltdown. What a totally unnecessary way to go out: a pitifully freightening, once dominating race horse reduced to that. She had already broken money earnings records of All Along and bounced to the fence in an allowance race in the slop

[46zilzal]

Like you always say, every situation is different. Not sure how you can conclude one very bad gate incident translates into "I should never race again...."

Plenty of horses flip in the gate (which QR could have EASILY DONE) only to come back and race again successfully.
I hope that is the case, but seeing the evolution of many head cases AT THE GATE over two years, I will not wager on the possibility. For the horse's sake I hope I am incorrect.

[Tom]

Sample error. Randomness, nothing more.

[PaceAdvantage]

She began to show signs of raggedness long before her meltdown. What a totally unnecessary way to go out: a pitifully freightening, once dominating race horse reduced to that. She had already broken money earnings records of All Along and bounced to the fence in an allowance race in the slopPlease...if Lady's Secret hadn't been trained by Lukas, you would NEVER have given her a second thought...her PPs belie your moans.

I once bought into all this anti-Lukas "poor Lady's Secret" propaganda...then I went and actually looked at her PPs one day...

[46zilzal]

Please...if Lady's Secret hadn't been trained by Lukas, you would NEVER have given her a second thought...her PPs belie your moans.

I once bought into all this anti-Lukas "poor Lady's Secret" propaganda...then I went and actually looked at her PPs one day...

IF Frank Whitely, Shug or anyone did to her what the goon did, I would hold the same opinion

[tucker6]

She began to show signs of raggedness long before her meltdown. What a totally unnecessary way to go out: a pitifully freightening, once dominating race horse reduced to that. She had already broken money earnings records of All Along and bounced to the fence in an allowance race in the slop
Hey listen, you don't have to tell me. I agree with you 1000%. She gave them a couple wake up calls and they ignored them. They couldn't ignore her last race though. I don't think she had a meltdown or was left an embarrassing nag of a horse. She'd had enough, and in some respects, showed her iron will by acting out like that. Kudos to her. She was special in many ways, and that display was in keeping with her personality. Don't you think?

[PaceAdvantage]

IF Frank Whitely, Shug or anyone did to her what the goon did, I would hold the same opinionYeah, some goon:

Moccasin Stakes (1984)
The Darley Test (1985)
Ballerina Handicap (1985)
Monmouth Regret Stakes (1985)
Ruffian Handicap (1985, 1986)
Beldame Stakes (1985, 1986)
Maskette Handicap (1985, 1986)
Whitney Handicap (1986)
Molly Pitcher Handicap (1986)
Shuvee Handicap (1986)
Breeders' Cup Distaff (1986)

U.S. Champion Older Filly (1986)
United States Horse of the Year (1986)

United States Racing Hall of Fame (1992)
#76 - Top 100 U.S. Racehorses of the 20th Century

[the little guy]

The colt, an experienced racer, is telling the handlers (JUST LIKE POOR OLD LADY'S SECRET TRIED but no one listened for anything but $$$$$$ in their eyes)..."I need help.


Comparing a 5YO Mare, who clearly had soured on racing, and was exhibiting those tendencies in her workouts, to a 3YO colt, who flipped out at the gate, is about as nonsensical as it gets.

[toussaud]

Like you always say, every situation is different. Not sure how you can conclude one very bad gate incident translates into "I should never race again...."

Plenty of horses flip in the gate (which QR could have EASILY DONE) only to come back and race again successfully.


I don't think it's a gate issue. I think hisf eet ar giving him more trouble than they are letting on and he knows that when he gets in theg ate he is going to run.

he looked like utter crap all week leading up to the breeders cup. the poster hit it on the head, he's doing everything in his power to tell everyone something is wrong.

[toussaud]

Hey listen, you don't have to tell me. I agree with you 1000%. She gave them a couple wake up calls and they ignored them. They couldn't ignore her last race though. I don't think she had a meltdown or was left an embarrassing nag of a horse. She'd had enough, and in some respects, showed her iron will by acting out like that. Kudos to her. She was special in many ways, and that display was in keeping with her personality. Don't you think?
what exactly did she do?

[the little guy]

I don't think it's a gate issue. I think hisf eet ar giving him more trouble than they are letting on and he knows that when he gets in theg ate he is going to run.

he looked like utter crap all week. the poster hit it on the head, he's doing everything in his power to tell everyone something is wrong.


So, it is your contention, anonymously on the internet of course, that Quality Road's owner, Ned Evens, his trainer, Todd Pletcher, as well as those that work for him, are endangering the welfare of this horse ( who, by the way, is worth a ton of money ). What exactly are your qualifications, which surely must be far better than their's, for making these decisions?

[Dahoss9698]

I don't think it's a gate issue. I think hisf eet ar giving him more trouble than they are letting on and he knows that when he gets in theg ate he is going to run.

he looked like utter crap all week. the poster hit it on the head, he's doing everything in his power to tell everyone something is wrong.

I'm not singling you out at all, because you are not the only person that has said it. But, the others that I asked for proof of this avoided the question (shockingly). So, since he looked like "utter crap" do you have a picture, video, workout report, etc that lends creedence to the theory he looked bad all BC week?

I'm not saying it's not true, I just have yet to see any evidence of it, aside from message board rumors.

[toussaud]

So, it is your contention, anonymously on the internet of course, that Quality Road's owner, Ned Evens, his trainer, Todd Pletcher, as well as those that work for him, are endangering the welfare of this horse ( who, by the way, is worth a ton of money ). What exactly are your qualifications, which surely must be far better than their's, for making these decisions?

sorry for having an opinion. Not like pletcher hasn't ignored issues in the past (scat daddy in the derby for instance)

yes when I see a horse tip toeing on a track before the race, a horse with known foot issues, than go bats!it when they try to load him in the gate, a horse that "does not have problems in the morning", and a trainer that will never be confused for Allen Jerkins when it comes to taking their time with a horse.... yeah that's kinda the conclusion I come up with.

I hope to god I"m wrong. He's my fav 3YO. But I"ve seen this movie before.

[toussaud]

I'm not singling you out at all, because you are not the only person that has said it. But, the others that I asked for proof of this avoided the question (shockingly). So, since he looked like "utter crap" do you have a picture, video, workout report, etc that lends creedence to the theory he looked bad all BC week?

I'm not saying it's not true, I just have yet to see any evidence of it, aside from message board rumors.


I didn't record it but the works on TVG and persuit of the cup on HRTV both showed him. was not moving pretty. Both commentators even ackoweldged he wasn't looking like his usual self.

[the little guy]

sorry for having an opinion. Not like pletcher hasn't ignored issues in the past (scat daddy in the derby for instance)


That's a BS copout. You accused the people involved with this horse, just as you did again now with your Scat Daddy comment, of endangering the welfare of this horse based on WHAT? What are your qualifications and what EXACTLY do you know?

And, since you brought up Scat Daddy, what were his issues GOING INTO THE RACE that were ignored and how exactly do you know about them?

Feel free to include your name and other pertinent personal information.

[toussaud]

That's a BS copout. You accused the people involved with this horse, just as you did again now with your Scat Daddy comment, of endangering the welfare of this horse based on WHAT? What are your qualifications and what EXACTLY do you know?

And, since you brought up Scat Daddy, what were his issues GOING INTO THE RACE that were ignored and how exactly do you know about them?

Feel free to include your name and other pertinent personal information.

Isn't the internet great? :)

We went through this with the post Joined made. I didn't ACCUSE them of anything. that's my opinion. I clearly stated it was my opnion.

If you want to tie me to the staeak becuase you know these people personally, go ahead. But it doesn't change the fact that this is my opinon. and I sseriously hope I'm wrong.


Can someone answer my post about what lady's secret did? I'm curious.

[Dahoss9698]

I didn't record it but the works on TVG and persuit of the cup on HRTV both showed him. was not moving pretty. Both commentators even ackoweldged he wasn't looking like his usual self.

So basically....no, you have no proof. Thanks.

[toussaud]

So basically....no, you have no proof. Thanks.

??? what do you mean "proof"

http://www.hrtvlive.com/hrtv/

all persuit of the cup shows are saved, so actually.. yeah i do.

[Dahoss9698]

??? what do you mean "proof"

http://www.hrtvlive.com/hrtv/

all persuit of the cup shows are saved, so actually.. yeah i do.

proof: any factual evidence that helps to establish the truth of something

I don't have HRTV, so I can't watch the pursuit of the cup shows. But I trust your eye. :lol:

[toussaud]

proof: any factual evidence that helps to establish the truth of something

I don't have HRTV, so I can't watch the pursuit of the cup shows. But I trust your eye. :lol:


so you ask for proof, I give you a link that has the replays online saved, than when you don't want to view the links you try to make a joke about "my eye", when I"m not the only person. I guess you wil have take my word for it when one of the TVG guys said he clearly wasn't having his best day as he galloped over the track.

I'm not going to spend all night doing crack reserch to make you happy. You banked on me not being able to show you a replay. the replays are there and you can see for yourself. he could have very well just not want to run on that track but I think he has a pedigree that would like that stuff which is why I lean towards feet.

Regardless, I hope and pray for the best for the big fella.

[Dahoss9698]

so you ask for proof, I give you a link that has the replays online saved, than when you don't want to view the links you try to make a joke about "my eye", when I"m not the only person. I guess you wil have take my word for it when one of the TVG guys said he clearly wasn't having his best day as he galloped over the track.

I'm not going to spend all night doing crack reserch to make you happy. You banked on me not being able to show you a replay. the replays are there and you can see for yourself. he could have very well just not want to run on that track but I think he has a pedigree that would like that stuff which is why I lean towards feet.

Regardless, I hope and pray for the best for the big fella.

I would like to view them. But, when I clicked it said I had to log in. I don't have HRTV, so how can I view them?

Like I said, I'm not singling you out. You're not the only one to make baseless claims about his condition. You're just the only one to respond. I actually appreciate it.

Judging by the way almost all of the other dirt horses performed, I'm inclined to say he probably didn't like the stuff. I still haven't seen anyone other than people on message boards talk about his condition, which I find curious. I mean, if it was that obvious on video, surely someone that writes about racing would have mentioned it, right?

But, I guess we'll see if he runs in the Cigar.

[the little guy]

I just want to know who said he looked like " utter crap " all week....TVG or HRTV.

My guess? Neither. But who am I to argue with someone who thinks it's their absolute right to yell fire in a crowded a theater.

[tzipi]

I just want to know who said he looked like " utter crap " all week....TVG or HRTV.

My guess? Neither. But who am I to argue with someone who thinks it's their absolute right to yell fire in a crowded a theater.


I agree with TLG here. Let's not jump to something we don not know is true. Pletcher could be all over that horse. Yes,he did look bad on BC,but I'm not too sure that was a foot thing. I could be wrong though. Let's see what Pletcher has him up to for the Cigar Mile.

Everyone play One Starry Nite tomorrow in the 1st at Aqueduct and everyone be merry and happy! :)

[OTM Al]

One time gate problem, don't really worry about it as every once in a while Mr. Horse simply doesn't feel like jackassing around the track on a given day. They do it twice, then it's a pattern and I want nothing to do with them until they can prove that they are ok. Remember Corinthian a couple years back? Nut job early in his career. They did eventually get him to behave though and he did ok in the end.

[WinterTriangle]

Plenty of horses flip in the gate (which QR could have EASILY DONE) only to come back and race again successfully.

Pace, I would agree with you if that was the *only* problem. And you're presenting it like it is, with no history.


Unfortunately, it's not. The horse was off with bad feet, and then after a long layoff, was prepared for a huge route G1 with a 6.5F workout (Travers) and got knocked around like a billiard ball in that race, with plenty of mud flinging as well, and ran the race like a horse who shouldn't have been entered.

Watch the Travers again for a reminder.

As some others believe, I think he's been mismanaged in several ways. So, all it all, it just all adds into a big messy ball for me. JMHO.

I really can't even make a wild prediction on this horse anymore. Not today. Even though I originally thought, and still think, he has a tremendous amount of raw talent and "was" a champion in the making.

So now, it's a total crapshoot for me.

It's not a one time "won't enter the gate" incident, as others have pointed out, its a pattern, tantrums, etc. Even if he wins, unless his behavior is modified, over time, patiently, he's a loose cannon.

[WinterTriangle]

I'm not singling you out at all, because you are not the only person that has said it. But, the others that I asked for proof of this avoided the question (shockingly). So, since he looked like "utter crap" do you have a picture, video, workout report, etc that lends creedence to the theory he looked bad all BC week?

I'm not saying it's not true, I just have yet to see any evidence of it, aside from message board rumors.

Look Dahoss, you asked me for that stuff a week ago. You have eyes. You can bring up the workouts, the videos, the photos, and compare him before the Derby and now.

Everyone who saw him, including those who were in SA on the rail, said he didn't look good.

If you think he did, then just say that!

It's what people see, and intuit, who know horses and/or this horse.

If you don't see it, then that's that. If your eyes tell you differently, then stick with your own intincts. It's annoying to be asked "what did you see", and then when somebody tries to EXPLAIN to you what they saw...... you ask them for news articles. :bang:

You seem to be expecting some kind of headline.:rolleyes:

Now you're doing to toussaud what you did to me. You want proof......proof that toussaud saw, with his eyes, that the horse wasn't moving pretty?

[Dahoss9698]

Look Dahoss, you asked me for that stuff a week ago. You have eyes. You can bring up the workouts, the videos, the photos, and compare him before the Derby and now.

Everyone who saw him, including those who were in SA on the rail, said he didn't look good.

If you think he did, then just say that!

It's what people see, and intuit, who know horses and/or this horse.

If you don't see it, then that's that. If your eyes tell you differently, then stick with your own intincts. It's annoying to be asked "what did you see", and then when somebody tries to EXPLAIN to you what they saw...... you ask them for news articles. :bang:

You seem to be expecting some kind of headline.:rolleyes:

Now you're doing to toussaud what you did to me. You want proof......proof that toussaud saw, with his eyes, that the horse wasn't moving pretty?

I just find it odd that if so many people saw this, not one person wrote about it. Isn't it kind of odd? Certainly if this was talked about so much BEFORE the actual race....it would be in some article, right? Common sense would say if a horse was seen noticeably limping (as you said) that his connections would have kept him out, or at the very least the California stewards would have.

I know, I know....I'm asking for some crazy stuff like actual proof, being that this is a message board. It's a lot easier to just throw all the crap you can at the wall and hope some of it sticks. :)

[Bochall]

I will be lined up to bet against Quality Road wherever he makes his next start. Not only does he have gate problems (have ya heard?) but methinks he may have 'fried his dials' with a couple of huge runs earlier this year. He is not the hardiest of colts and I require a decent showing before backing him. Second or third time back may be the big run but after the Cigar where does he go? Stay in training down at GP or rest again? Seems logical to wrap him up for the year but maybe he's kickin the doors down, as they say. Still think of that Lindsey Buckingham song every time I hear his name....Quality Ro-oooooooooad.

[WinterTriangle]

I just find it odd that if so many people saw this, not one person wrote about it. Isn't it kind of odd? Certainly if this was talked about so much BEFORE the actual race....it would be in some article, right?



So, you're looking for media "fairytales" and press releases. :rolleyes:


Savvy handicappers will make their own assessments. Nobody here can teach you to *see* if a horse's stride looks terrible, if they look stiff, aren't getting over the track well, or look tucked-up. You can certainly pay for workout/paddock reports if you don't like some of the posts here that are for free. ;)


I do read the media stuff, too---(bolding mine):

"He’s got stitches, he nearly knocked a tooth out, he’s got a laceration and a big bruise over one eye, and a pretty significant hematoma on his left leg,” said Chris Baker, farm manager for owner Edward P. Evans. “They appear to be passing things and soft tissue type of injuries, but he still has to recover from them and also the mental wounds........We’ve got some work ahead of us to get him right. We want to race him next year, and we hope this goes away. This is a smart horse, and when he has that kind of experience it’s not something he’s going to forget. He’s really shook up."

(Obviously, none of this will stop him from racing in 7 days from now in the Cigar after some practice gate drills).:rolleyes:




Next, let's talk about feet: Ian McKinlay was working on QR prior to the KD. This wasn't on the quarter crack on his right hind foot. This was the new quarter crack, on his right front hoof. (forgot which one he popped during the Florida Derby.) So, before the KY Derby, QR had a patch, it was removed---and they put on a three-quarter bar shoe. Then, McKinley put in the stainless steel wires. A day later, QR galloped at Belmont, but unfortunately, there was blood dripping from his hoof. Heat (friction and inflammation). They applied some kind of ointment, and waited a week for it to dry out. A week later, McKinley laced up the crack, which was still 'tender' to the touch.


So, as much as this will upset you, some farriers/handicappers believe QR's feet hurt, and he didn't want to race in the BC. (Are we are back to Big Brown all over again....no foot, no horse.)?

I watch every workout of horses with hoof problems. Are they stepping too lightly on the track? Or just right?


I cast no aspersions on Pletcher or anyone else. Tough management issue, and combined with the gate problems, and his most recent bad experience, they will have to bring the sum of their knowledge and expertise to a very trying situation.

The owner, Evans, breeds to race, by the way:
http://www.darleyamerica.com/page/37819/news/articles/a-road-worth-travelling
(I didn't know he had a B.A. from Yale, and an MBA from Harvard.)

Interesting article on Spring Hill Farm: quite an operation.
http://www.marylandthoroughbred.com/midatlantic/current/lead_article_05/may_lead_article_05.htm



I hope QR wins some big races. Personally, I don't have positive vibes for young inexperienced horse having longevity in top-level racing careers with hoof problems in more than one foot early on.

[Moyers Pond]

won't hit the board.

terribly mismanged.

Yeah, terribly mismanaged to a track record at Saratoga and two second place finishes in grade 1's behind the 3yr old Eclipse winner.

Quality Road was very well managed by both his trainers. He had some foot issues, they were fixed, and they have kept him healthy. The most important thing. You act like keeping a horse with bad feet healthy is just a given.

He was a 3yr old that ran 3rd in the Travers, 2nd in the JCGC, on off tracks and won a stakes and set a track record at Saratoga. If that is mismanaged I would love to see well managed.

The problem with Quality Road is he is not as good as people think he is running 10f. He is more of a 8-9f horse but gets the last 1f on class.

If Quality Road win the Cigar Mile, a serious possibility (who is going to beat him) than he will have won 2 grade 1's run second and third in 2 grade 1's to a great horse and won another stakes race and set 2 track records all in one year. It does not get much better.

Unless you can control the weather, which you probably think you can, there is nothing Pletcher could have done about the rain.

[ghostyapper]

I don't think he should be running in the cigar mile but I don't feel that strongly about it.

All I ask though is that all those saying it was an isolated incident and that we shouldn't get on the connections for running him, that if there is an incident whether not loading in the gate or just running poorly, will you come back here and say that in hindsight it was a mistake and he should have been given more time off?

[Show Me the Wire]

.................................................. .................................................. ..... Personally, I don't have positive vibes for young inexperienced horse having longevity in top-level racing careers with hoof problems in more than one foot early on.

Me too.

[Dahoss9698]

So, you're looking for media "fairytales" and press releases. :rolleyes:


Savvy handicappers will make their own assessments. Nobody here can teach you to *see* if a horse's stride looks terrible, if they look stiff, aren't getting over the track well, or look tucked-up. You can certainly pay for workout/paddock reports if you don't like some of the posts here that are for free. ;)


I do read the media stuff, too---(bolding mine):

"He’s got stitches, he nearly knocked a tooth out, he’s got a laceration and a big bruise over one eye, and a pretty significant hematoma on his left leg,” said Chris Baker, farm manager for owner Edward P. Evans. “They appear to be passing things and soft tissue type of injuries, but he still has to recover from them and also the mental wounds........We’ve got some work ahead of us to get him right. We want to race him next year, and we hope this goes away. This is a smart horse, and when he has that kind of experience it’s not something he’s going to forget. He’s really shook up."

(Obviously, none of this will stop him from racing in 7 days from now in the Cigar after some practice gate drills).:rolleyes:




Next, let's talk about feet: Ian McKinlay was working on QR prior to the KD. This wasn't on the quarter crack on his right hind foot. This was the new quarter crack, on his right front hoof. (forgot which one he popped during the Florida Derby.) So, before the KY Derby, QR had a patch, it was removed---and they put on a three-quarter bar shoe. Then, McKinley put in the stainless steel wires. A day later, QR galloped at Belmont, but unfortunately, there was blood dripping from his hoof. Heat (friction and inflammation). They applied some kind of ointment, and waited a week for it to dry out. A week later, McKinley laced up the crack, which was still 'tender' to the touch.


So, as much as this will upset you, some farriers/handicappers believe QR's feet hurt, and he didn't want to race in the BC. (Are we are back to Big Brown all over again....no foot, no horse.)?

I watch every workout of horses with hoof problems. Are they stepping too lightly on the track? Or just right?


I cast no aspersions on Pletcher or anyone else. Tough management issue, and combined with the gate problems, and his most recent bad experience, they will have to bring the sum of their knowledge and expertise to a very trying situation.

The owner, Evans, breeds to race, by the way:
http://www.darleyamerica.com/page/37819/news/articles/a-road-worth-travelling
(I didn't know he had a B.A. from Yale, and an MBA from Harvard.)

Interesting article on Spring Hill Farm: quite an operation.
http://www.marylandthoroughbred.com/midatlantic/current/lead_article_05/may_lead_article_05.htm



I hope QR wins some big races. Personally, I don't have positive vibes for young inexperienced horse having longevity in top-level racing careers with hoof problems in more than one foot early on.

So again, not one person anywhere mentioned it BEFORE the race. But I'm supposed to listen to randoms here? And I get handicapping advice also? Too funny.

Has any stuck yet? Keep flinging it, eventually a little will.

[Show Me the Wire]

I didn't see Quality Road works so I have no opinion. Additionlly, I don't recall any media personalities or analysts prior to the race opine anything negative about Quality Road's works or his looks prior to the starting gate fiasco.

[WinterTriangle]

But I'm supposed to listen to randoms here?

This isn't an audio site.

You have to actually click on, and open a topic, to "listen".

Obviously, you are doing that.

So, not sure what the complaining is all about.:lol:

[Dahoss9698]

This isn't an audio site.

You have to actually click on, and open a topic, to "listen".

Obviously, you are doing that.

So, not sure what the complaining is all about.:lol:

Still not sticking.

[andymays]

Quality Road iffy for Cigar Mile
By Mike Farrell

http://www.drf.com/news/article/109056.html

Excerpt:

OZONE PARK, N.Y. - Quality Road's status for the Grade 1 Cigar Mile on Nov. 28 at Aqueduct has not been decided, trainer Todd Pletcher said Friday morning.

"Don't know yet," Pletcher said at his Belmont Park office. "He will go to Aqueduct Saturday to school in the paddock around 11 a.m., and he'll go in the starting gate around 11:15. He'll probably breeze on Sunday, and we'll see how that goes."

[tucker6]

Quality Road iffy for Cigar Mile
By Mike Farrell

http://www.drf.com/news/article/109056.html

Excerpt:

OZONE PARK, N.Y. - Quality Road's status for the Grade 1 Cigar Mile on Nov. 28 at Aqueduct has not been decided, trainer Todd Pletcher said Friday morning.

"Don't know yet," Pletcher said at his Belmont Park office. "He will go to Aqueduct Saturday to school in the paddock around 11 a.m., and he'll go in the starting gate around 11:15. He'll probably breeze on Sunday, and we'll see how that goes."
can't they go to an empty track and practice at 4pm ?? He won't be racing at 11am.

[Show Me the Wire]

Tracks have training hours. I don't think 4pm fits into the schedule, for the gate crew.

[tucker6]

Tracks have training hours. I don't think 4pm fits into the schedule, for the gate crew.
Okay. You have a multi million dollar horse. Are you saying it isn't worth paying a gate crew to be there at 4pm for training?? I mean, come on, the connections need to show a little imagination. There are more ways than none to get in some late afternoon gate training IF THEY WANTED TO.

[bisket]

if quality runs here i don't like him, but if he goes to the donn after this race. i like him ALOT in the donn!!!! i'll want to see him training regularly leading to the donn, but my hopes are he runs here and finishes up the track because he's gonna pay good in the donn. da bisket knows pletcher!!

[Show Me the Wire]

The track is closed. No training allowed outside the training hours. The connections would have to take the horse to a private facility, but then it is different surroundings than the track.

[tucker6]

The track is closed. No training allowed outside the training hours. The connections would have to take the horse to a private facility, but then it is different surroundings than the track.
That's what I was really saying. Take him to a private track. I realize it isn't the same, but I get the impression that he gets ornery in the late afternoon. That would show up, and possibly be corrected, on a private track as well.

[Show Me the Wire]

He more than likely has to earn a gate card. That is why they are schooling him with the gate crew, so he can be certified to start. Can't do that at the facility.

Do people really think a trainer like, Pletcher is stupid? He probably is schooling the horse at a private facility, but he needs the horse to earn a gate card after the B.C. fiasco,

I don't personally know Pletcher, but I am familiar with the rules of racing and everytihing he is doing seems to be in-line with the actions of an experienced, knowledgable trainer and not questionable decisions due to stupidity.

[Dahoss9698]

Do people really think a trainer like, Pletcher is stupid?



On this board.....yes apparently people think he is. I agree with you, I'm sure they are doing everything they can to get him ready for his next start. Wherever that may be. If he's in the gate for The Cigar Mile, he's the horse to beat at a distance that is probably his best.

[NYPlayer]

...I really can't even make a wild prediction on this horse anymore. Not today. Even though I originally thought, and still think, he has a tremendous amount of raw talent and "was" a champion in the making.

So now, it's a total crapshoot for me...

To me, he's just a piece of crap.

I kind of suspected he was bad even before the Traver's, despite his good numbers. There was just too much time between races and the fast numbers looked artificial.

[Dahoss9698]

To me, he's just a piece of crap.

I kind of suspected he was bad even before the Traver's, despite his good numbers. There was just too much time between races and the fast numbers looked artificial.

Not exactly. Here's your post a few days before the Travers.

Quality Road is clearly the superior horse in the race. The Sheets gave him a new top number of -0+ (minus one quarter) for his effort in the Amsterdam. It's a sizable jump for the horse in what was meant as a prep for the Travers. It's doubtful that he moves forward and seems more likely to bounce. Still, he is a bounce and win candidate if Kensai or any of the others don't move up their game.


Was his 2nd to Summer Bird in the JCGC artificial?

[the little guy]

A healthy Quality Road is a superior animal that could very well have laid a major hurt on horses like Big Brown.

Now, obviously there are questions right now about next week, and the field won't be easy, but if he shows up he will be very tough.

[Robert Fischer]

The (Quality) Road to the Cigar boooo @ the pun :mad::ThmbDown:;)

the gate disaster was unfortunate, and I hope the big guy didn't get a bad concussion or any setbacks with a couple of those hard smashes, but the smart move was to stay at home, feign disdain at those awful synthetic surfaces and aim for the Cigar(I have a bad pun using the word "Discovery" but he's a star athlete who truly belongs in the Cigar).

he wasn't going to do anything in 90%+ of the probable scenarios for a high quality stakes race @ 10furlongs on that pro-ride surface.

He isn't that well-rounded.

[eastie]

won't hit the board.

terribly mismanged.


they rue the day they took that horse away from Jimmy Jerkens....idiots.

[PaceAdvantage]

they rue the day they took that horse away from Jimmy Jerkens....idiots.Stop with that nonsense already...

Fact is, I heard Jimmy just lost some more horses recently as Susan and John Moore, big time owners for Jimmy (M & M T-bred partners) pulled ALL of their horses out of Jimmy's barn and gave them to Anthony Dutrow (there could be other trainers getting horses, but all I heard was Dutrow's name)....

If Jimmy is so much better than Pletcher, why is he losing horses to Anthony Dutrow?

[FenceBored]

Sounds like they did the most they could to simulate race time conditions, except for a crowd and had no problems.
Quality Road Big A Schooling a Success

Baker said Quality Road was loaded in the gate six times without incident, much to the delight of trainer Todd Pletcher and starter Bob Duncan.-- http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/53544/quality-road-big-a-schooling-a-success

[samyn on the green]

Saturday at the Big-A? there could be 75,000 people there. How is he going to handle this huge crowd at Aqueduct for this grade one spectacular.

[bisket]

it'll really make me happy if he loads, and breaks fine. he's been a horse i've liked ever since the fountain of youth. i hope he just gets this one under his belt and finishes in the money because i really like him in the donn if thats where he goes next. this is what i see with this race. i'm thinking that this situation mirrors lawyer ron in the salvatore mile. he used that race as a springboard to his career best races later that summer. pletcher is predictable, and the two horses have much in common. lets see how it plays out!!

[Dahoss9698]

Saturday at the Big-A? there could be 75,000 people there. How is he going to handle this huge crowd at Aqueduct for this grade one spectacular.

I think you added an extra 0 to the attendance. Maybe two.

[eastie]

I think you added an extra 0 to the attendance. Maybe two.


now that's funny stuff.

Quality Road's maiden win pointed him out pretty clearly for those paying attention. He was barely a blip on anyone's( even TLG ) radar then and not even available in the first Derby Future.

[WinterTriangle]

he wasn't going to do anything in 90%+ of the probable scenarios for a high quality stakes race @ 10furlongs on that pro-ride surface.

He isn't that well-rounded.

Thanks Robert. Why he looked so bad going over the track. Rewatched THE WORKS, one of the better TVG features, he looked crispy.

Back on real dirt, at = or < 9F, I like Quality Road.

[the little guy]

now that's funny stuff.

Quality Road's maiden win pointed him out pretty clearly for those paying attention. He was barely a blip on anyone's( even TLG ) radar then and not even available in the first Derby Future.


Why are you deciding here how I felt about Quality Road after his debut?

[WinterTriangle]

for those paying attention

Um, then it sounds like maybe it was you who was late to the party.

If you pull up the chart, from Aqueduct, November 29th, 2008, you will see that in Quality Road's maiden special weight, he went off as the 2nd favorite.

(2nd favorite hardly qualifies as not a blip on anyone's radar screen :rolleyes: )

Dubinsky was the favorite with Prado riding.

People paid attention even before he ran his first race.


A few days later, Vic Vivio and others were touting him to collegues. By March 30th, oddmakers Jay Kornegay, Ed Salmons and Charlie Ludlow were offering up Quality Road at 4-to-1 in their published futures sheets.

[Cat Thief]

Winter Triangle _ I think you are real knowledgable about horses and a real good handicapper. I have read several of your posts on this forum and other forums and I totally respect anything you write.

[eastie]

Why are you deciding here how I felt about Quality Road after his debut?


it's a thread about quality road....seemed like as good a place as any.
I pm'ed you about this horse last winter and your reply was, " I have no thoughts on him , he's eligible for the 1 other than. I guess you must not have noticed his debut, or been impressed with it. You had no comments when i complained about him not being in the first derby future. Next question. And don't let me start quoting Capt. Quint.

[Robert Fischer]

IIRC :confused: (big if)

he did get some hype from his first start, and there was an over-rated horse from that same race who was being hyped on here. I almost think stevie Belmont was talking about that horse - but that could be a faulty memory.

[eastie]

yet he still wasn't offered in the first derby future after he got cooked in an against the bias run ( rail went dead mid card) florida race if i'm not mistaken.....not one of the top 24 horses. he was 100-1 in vegas till he won the fountain of youth $$

[Dahoss9698]

Winter Triangle _ I think you are real knowledgable about horses and a real good handicapper. I have read several of your posts on this forum and other forums and I totally respect anything you write.

You're kidding right?

[joanied]

Originally Posted by Cat Thief
Winter Triangle _ I think you are real knowledgable about horses and a real good handicapper. I have read several of your posts on this forum and other forums and I totally respect anything you write.


You're kidding right?

Cat Thief...I agree with you and I'll dito the compliment you paid Winter Triangle:ThmbUp:
She knows what she is doing, a very good handicapper and knowledgable about horses in general...and her posts are always well thought out:ThmbUp:

Also...Toussaud mentioned several things and you, dahoss, asked him for 'proof'...he gave you the link to see all the HRTV replay shows, the ones that had QR on them, and where the commentators spoke of how QR looked...he gave you the link because you said you don't get HRTV...then you said you can't watch the replay shows because you have to 'log in' to see them...so, why not register, it's free, and then watch the shows...this way, you have something to back up your arguments...you want proof, then when it's given to you, you make up some lame excuse not to look at the proof:faint:

If a person 'knows' horses...is in touch with the body language of horses, has an 'eye' for horses...that person can pick up on how a particular horse may be feeling...a lot of folks, including myself, thought that QR just looked a little 'rough' in the week leading up to the BC...this is not something a person can afford 'proof' to...it is an opinion of someone that just sees more than others might...it's not a black and white issue...and any good horseman will tell you that...it's instinct...
it's not easily explained...it just is.

[Grits]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEXeFAyQMYg

I'm not sure if this has been posted elsewhere at the site, if it has, forgive, please. Its Quality Road's gate work at Aqueduct with Bob Duncan.

As docile as a lamb.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by Cat Thief
Winter Triangle _ I think you are real knowledgable about horses and a real good handicapper. I have read several of your posts on this forum and other forums and I totally respect anything you write.




Cat Thief...I agree with you and I'll dito the compliment you paid Winter Triangle:ThmbUp:
She knows what she is doing, a very good handicapper and knowledgable about horses in general...and her posts are always well thought out:ThmbUp:

Also...Toussaud mentioned several things and you, dahoss, asked him for 'proof'...he gave you the link to see all the HRTV replay shows, the ones that had QR on them, and where the commentators spoke of how QR looked...he gave you the link because you said you don't get HRTV...then you said you can't watch the replay shows because you have to 'log in' to see them...so, why not register, it's free, and then watch the shows...this way, you have something to back up your arguments...you want proof, then when it's given to you, you make up some lame excuse not to look at the proof:faint:

If a person 'knows' horses...is in touch with the body language of horses, has an 'eye' for horses...that person can pick up on how a particular horse may be feeling...a lot of folks, including myself, thought that QR just looked a little 'rough' in the week leading up to the BC...this is not something a person can afford 'proof' to...it is an opinion of someone that just sees more than others might...it's not a black and white issue...and any good horseman will tell you that...it's instinct...
it's not easily explained...it just is.

It's actually not free to view those videos. :bang:

I asked for one article, workout report, etc that mentioned how bad he looked. Something in writing. There are thousands of different papers worldwide yet not one mention of it. Winter Triangle also said he was noticeably limping. How can a contender for a race like the Classic be noticeably limping in workouts, yet not one person writes about it? Does that make sense to you?

So, your position is thousands and thousands of people watched this horse workout and you, Winter Triangle and Toussaud saw something no one else saw? :liar: I think it's all b.s. like a lot of what you guys post. :)

Thanks for the laugh. :ThmbUp:

[bisket]

yet he still wasn't offered in the first derby future after he got cooked in an against the bias run ( rail went dead mid card) florida race if i'm not mistaken.....not one of the top 24 horses. he was 100-1 in vegas till he won the fountain of youth $$
jerkins said the horse wasn't quite ready to run in that allowance, but he needed to run him so quality would be ready for the fountain of youth. i'd say that strategy worked to a tee :ThmbUp:, when i saw him run with phil for 6 furs and then still take off in the stretch there was little doubt in my mind he could get the derby distance. i still think he can if pletcher would stop trying to get the horse to rate. you gotta just let this horse go and do his thing. he's a very aggressive horse when he's enjoying what he's doing. if pletcher just lets the horse do his thing once the gate opens i'm sure you'll see a totally different horse. nobody will get by him in the stretch.

[eastie]

so I guess Jerkens was "letting him do his thing". I don't think it was too bright of them to take him away from Jimmy Jerkens. He had him showing all that promise, they should have let him finish the job.

[eastie]

Stop with that nonsense already...

Fact is, I heard Jimmy just lost some more horses recently as Susan and John Moore, big time owners for Jimmy (M & M T-bred partners) pulled ALL of their horses out of Jimmy's barn and gave them to Anthony Dutrow (there could be other trainers getting horses, but all I heard was Dutrow's name)....

If Jimmy is so much better than Pletcher, why is he losing horses to Anthony Dutrow?


Susan and John Moore :lol:. You won't be seeing either of them on Jeopardy anytime soon. Their act will grow pretty thin on Dutrow soon enough.

[the_fat_man]

"The Swale, awarded to This Ones for Phil when Big Drama was disqualified for twice bumping his rival, also produced a track record of 1:20.88 for the mile. That led Pletcher to complain that the track had been manicured to cater to speed. "

Wonder how this all fit in with Pletcher 'lobbying' to get this plug turned over to him. Clearly, Pletcher, AT LEAST, was aware that this FAST horse had a nice track to run over in the FL Derby.

[toussaud]

I mean I can see you taking a horse away if you dn'tt hink the trainer is getting the most out the horse (like lawyer ron was taken away)

but what real reason did they take quality road away? 4 races, 3 wins, grade 3, grade 1. crap.

more curious than anything. that was one of the head scratcher moments of the year. even if you don't like the guy. i work with people i can't stand all the time.

[Dahoss9698]

He took ALL of his horses away from Jerkens. It wasn't just this one. Like the Moore's just did. It's just business. A few years back Mark Hennig was Evans trainer of choice. Now he doesn't train at all for him. Again, it's a business.

[joanied]

It's actually not free to view those videos. :bang:

I asked for one article, workout report, etc that mentioned how bad he looked. Something in writing. There are thousands of different papers worldwide yet not one mention of it. Winter Triangle also said he was noticeably limping. How can a contender for a race like the Classic be noticeably limping in workouts, yet not one person writes about it? Does that make sense to you?

So, your position is thousands and thousands of people watched this horse workout and you, Winter Triangle and Toussaud saw something no one else saw? :liar: I think it's all b.s. like a lot of what you guys post. :)

Thanks for the laugh. :ThmbUp:

Not free?? HUH...I'll have to find time to check that out...my mistake if that is true...I know I watched video on HRTV and didn't have to do anything but the free register....maybe it's changed.

I can't and won't speak for Winter Triangle and Toussaud...I said i thought the horse looked rough...last spring I thought he was a gorgeous animal...not now, unless his physical staure comes back...but looking rough tells me the horse isn't feeling 100% and/or is not, for some reason, happy...maybe his feet do hurt more than they think...

I guess you read those thousands of papers every day, so you are 100% certain no mention of how QR was looking prior to the BC was there?
so, thank you for the laughs:D and if you think what some of us here post is BS...then I suggest you don't read the posts...or reply to them...afterall, dahoss...we all can't be as perfect as you:rolleyes:

[bisket]

lawyer ron's first few months with pletcher were exactly like quality road's. pletcher tryed to work him slowly, and had the jock fighting with the horse throughout the first mile. the horse became more and more docile, and lost his agressiveness towards other horses. his competition during the race was the jock not the other horses. this is what i saw in quality's prior 2 races. not as much in the travers, but in the jcgc quality was just sorta galloping along not even caring whether he was in front or not. he just finished wrestling with johnny v for a mile so i guess the horse lost his competitiveness. i saw the exact same thing with lawyer in the spring of 2007. every race after the salvatore johnny gave lawyer the reign, and the horse went on too a series of career best performances. judging from pletchers comments on the cup broadcast it seems pletcher is finally gonna give quality the reign and let him run. if that happens quality will quickly return to his previous form imop. he'll be in the tri box in the cigar, but i don't really know about him winning. if the public goes off him completely in the cigar i'll probably put a wager on his nose. now if he continues to stay on the track, and runs in the donn. he'll definately get the majority of my money. i hope he doesn't win in the cigar. it'll make him a much better price in the donn.

[Dahoss9698]

Not free?? HUH...I'll have to find time to check that out...my mistake if that is true...I know I watched video on HRTV and didn't have to do anything but the free register....maybe it's changed.

I can't and won't speak for Winter Triangle and Toussaud...I said i thought the horse looked rough...last spring I thought he was a gorgeous animal...not now, unless his physical staure comes back...but looking rough tells me the horse isn't feeling 100% and/or is not, for some reason, happy...maybe his feet do hurt more than they think...

I guess you read those thousands of papers every day, so you are 100% certain no mention of how QR was looking prior to the BC was there?
so, thank you for the laughs:D and if you think what some of us here post is BS...then I suggest you don't read the posts...or reply to them...afterall, dahoss...we all can't be as perfect as you:rolleyes:

I obviously don't read thousands of papers a day. But, considering Winter Triangle said he was noticeably limping in his workout, I figured someone somewhere had to have written about it. Wouldn't you agree? I'm just looking for someone....anywhere besides 3 people from here and I can't find it.

Don't you think someone watching workouts would have mentioned a horse limping? Wouldn't a steward, racing official, anyone really, mention a Classic contender was limping? I'm not 100% sure, but since it was so obvious....as you guys are saying than common sense would lead you to believe someone wrote about it.

Follow your own advice. You don't like what I post....don't reply. I wasn't talking to you in this thread at all. :ThmbUp: :lol: :bang: :eek: :cool: :sleeping: :)

[Dahoss9698]

lawyer ron's first few months with pletcher were exactly like quality road's. pletcher tryed to work him slowly, and had the jock fighting with the horse throughout the first mile. the horse became more and more docile, and lost his agressiveness towards other horses. his competition during the race was the jock not the other horses. this is what i saw in quality's prior 2 races. not as much in the travers, but in the jcgc quality was just sorta galloping along not even caring whether he was in front or not. he just finished wrestling with johnny v for a mile so i guess the horse lost his competitiveness. i saw the exact same thing with lawyer in the spring of 2007. every race after the salvatore johnny gave lawyer the reign, and the horse went on too a series of career best performances. judging from pletchers comments on the cup broadcast it seems pletcher is finally gonna give quality the reign and let him run. if that happens quality will quickly return to his previous form imop. he'll be in the tri box in the cigar, but i don't really know about him winning. if the public goes off him completely in the cigar i'll probably put a wager on his nose. now if he continues to stay on the track, and runs in the donn. he'll definately get the majority of my money. i hope he doesn't win in the cigar. it'll make him a much better price in the donn.

Lawyer Ron's best performances came in the Whitney and Woodward. He rated kindly in both of those races. He also rated kindly in the JCGC. His worst performance was in the Classic, when he didn't rate and was given the reins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA8u9_uvJM0&feature=PlayList&p=1F7C73E79C93B0A2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=21

[bisket]

the only reason lawyer "rated kindly" is because johnny wasn't fighting him, and the turn slowed the 1/4 mile time. the 1/2 mile to 1 mile fractions were very fast, and you don't see johnny on the brakes at all.

[Dahoss9698]

He wasn't fighting him because he had been taught to rate. Early on in his career he was unrateable. Now, maybe having a stronger jock on him than John McKee helped, but by no means is Velazquez just letting him roll. Watch the races.

[bisket]

you are certainly entitled to your opinio. i disagree

[NYPlayer]

Not exactly. Here's your post a few days before the Travers.

"Quality Road is clearly the superior horse in the race. The Sheets gave him a new top number of -0+ (minus one quarter) for his effort in the Amsterdam. It's a sizable jump for the horse in what was meant as a prep for the Travers. It's doubtful that he moves forward and seems more likely to bounce. Still, he is a bounce and win candidate if Kensai or any of the others don't move up their game."

Was his 2nd to Summer Bird in the JCGC artificial?

He was best horse in the Travers based on his prior numbers. There was no doubt about that. However, He was not the best on form, and as I said the horse was likely to bounce. Summer Bird won the Travers with a Sheet number of "3", so QR could have bounced to a "3-" and still have won. As it happened, he ran a "7" - a clear indication that the big top had a negative impact on his form. I am usually suspect about a horse with a few very fast numbers with layoff gaps, but I reserve judgment until the race after the peak. In responding to Winter Triangle, I said that "I kind of suspected", verbeage which matched the level of doubt that I expressed in my post just before the Travers.



Summer Bird's "3" in the Travers was a one point new top which stamped him as a slower, but healthier and forward moving horse. In the JCGC, he earned a "1", another new top. QR, still the horse with the fastest numbers, but one with clearly bad form, rebounded to a number closer to his top (I think he earned a "2"), but did not match or surpass his big Saratoga peak. The impact of his JCGC placing, which was still a strong effort, would likely be felt in the BC.



SB figured to bounce in the BC, both for the new top and fact that he was on poly for the first time. Nevertheless, he still earned a "3+", in line with his previous numbers. QR did not run, but sure was acting like a sore claimer at the gate. He lucked out as did I Want Revenge in the Kentucky Derby. Barbaro was not so fortunate.

[PaceAdvantage]

QR did not run, but sure was acting like a sore claimer at the gate. He lucked out as did I Want Revenge in the Kentucky Derby. Barbaro was not so fortunate.So, in effect, what you're saying is that future track veterinarians can save a fortune bypassing vet school and instead simply learn how to read the sheets....

If only Michael Matz had had the time...what might have been....

[Dahoss9698]

He was best horse in the Travers based on his prior numbers. There was no doubt about that. However, He was not the best on form, and as I said the horse was likely to bounce. Summer Bird won the Travers with a Sheet number of "3", so QR could have bounced to a "3-" and still have won. As it happened, he ran a "7" - a clear indication that the big top had a negative impact on his form. I am usually suspect about a horse with a few very fast numbers with layoff gaps, but I reserve judgment until the race after the peak. In responding to Winter Triangle, I said that "I kind of suspected", verbeage which matched the level of doubt that I expressed in my post just before the Travers.



Summer Bird's "3" in the Travers was a one point new top which stamped him as a slower, but healthier and forward moving horse. In the JCGC, he earned a "1", another new top. QR, still the horse with the fastest numbers, but one with clearly bad form, rebounded to a number closer to his top (I think he earned a "2"), but did not match or surpass his big Saratoga peak. The impact of his JCGC placing, which was still a strong effort, would likely be felt in the BC.



SB figured to bounce in the BC, both for the new top and fact that he was on poly for the first time. Nevertheless, he still earned a "3+", in line with his previous numbers. QR did not run, but sure was acting like a sore claimer at the gate. He lucked out as did I Want Revenge in the Kentucky Derby. Barbaro was not so fortunate.

:lol:

This is the thread that keeps on giving. I thank you for that.

[samyn on the green]

What do you mean, the NYC metro has 23 million+ people. It will be a madhouse there for the Cigar Mile. I happened to snap of photo of the crowd at Aqueduct this Saturday. You really think Quality Road will hold together around a crowd like this? Look how he fell apart like a cheap watch at Santa Anita.
http://z.about.com/d/horseracing/1/0/i/5/aqueduct.jpg

All humor aside Quality Road has only a small chance to win the Cigar Mile, he is an easy toss for me. I think you added an extra 0 to the attendance. Maybe two.

[Cat Thief]

I am not kidding what I said about Winter Triangle, it stands.

[Show Me the Wire]

I don't think it is fair having just one poster singled out as the standard for knowledge and handicapping on this forum. So in the spirit of fairness, I believe this about my board buddy.

Zilly, I think you are real knowledgable about horses (because you tell us), a real good handicapper (because you tell us), and a good photographer (because you tell us). I have read all of your posts on this forum I respect your knowledge about horses, handicapping and photographing horses.

[NYPlayer]

So, in effect, what you're saying is that future track veterinarians can save a fortune bypassing vet school and instead simply learn how to read the sheets....

Now there's a thought!

I remember last year at Gulfstream a horse was scratched by the stewards. It was then entered about 10 days later and won by daylight at 7-2. I bet him 'cause he looked great on The Sheets.

Must have been a case of the sniffles.

[firstoffclaim]

Coronados Quest almost sent Shug to the loony bin with his pre race antics, yet went on to have a heck of a career.