Interview with HANA's Theresia Muller

[maryforney]

Here's a video interview with Theresia Muller (http://maryforney.blogspot.com/2009/11/interview-with-hanas-theresia-muller.html) , Treasurer of Horseplayers Association of North America (HANA). Muller speaks about the organization and its goals and also about her personal handicapping methods.

[rwwupl]

Thanks to Mary and Theresia for this. HANA needs all the recognition it can get. Santa Anita officials are very aware and are cooperative. :ThmbUp:

Thanks, rwwupl

[JustRalph]

A Horseplayer, Smart, Beautiful and Great Taste in Sun Glasses..........HANA is lucky to have her!

Wow!!! Great video............ :ThmbUp:

[DeanT]

A Horseplayer, Smart, Beautiful and Great Taste in Sun Glasses!


Thanks Ralph, I do my best. But I prefer to be called "hunky".

Oh, you mean her. Sorry.

Thanks Mary!!!

[boomman]

Well done and well said! I especially noticed the part where she stated "I LOVE to spend a day at the races"! All of us in racing have to perserve that attitude!!!!:) Theresia, we hope you'll see fit to travel to beautiful Northern Arizona next summer and spend "a day at the races" with us!

Boomer

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I notice they edited out all the curse words. Theresia has a big problem with her Tourettes. Every third or fourth word on the conference call. Good to see she kept up her composure for the most part during the interview.

[Indulto]

Composure and intelligence ... what more can you ask for in a spokesperson. :ThmbUp:

[RichieP]

Theresia, we hope you'll see fit to travel to beautiful Northern Arizona next summer and spend "a day at the races" with us!

Boomer

Yes and while you are there Theresia please make sure to step up to the windows and place some bets at Arizona's ridiculously low rakes

We certainly should all be supporting the great thoroughbred racing state of Arizona.

**Sorry Boomer nothing personal but your state should have had its racing arm cut off a LONG time ago. If EVERYONE would simply stop betting DOLLARS there watch how FAST real change (good for us the bettors and I don't mean the select few who "rebate". I mean EVERYONE) happens**

[DanG]

This is so encouraging to hear our sports unspoken message be articulated so beautifully. When well educated / dedicated people such as Theresia, Jeff, Dean etc choose to fight for all of us; the entire sport wins.

Great way to start the morning…thanks Mary for the link and Theresia for making us all proud.

[melman]

RichieP---I could not agree with you more. There are TWO and only TWO main issues. One high takeouts and two drugs in racing. Having anyone from a group that is supposed to represent horseplayers to a high takeout track is sending the wrong message. Semd her to Monmouth or Meadowlands and have her bet pic4's with the 15% takeout. I think there are way to many people in both the racing industry and HANA who somehow think that new serious players will be created by working on anyother item rather than the big two. The days of people going live to a racetrack are OVER period. Only a couple of "tradition" tracks and a couple of big event races will draw people for live racing. Promote lower takeout and more servere fines/suspensions for drug using trainers. IMO anything else is a waste of time.

[BillW]

RichieP---I could not agree with you more. There are TWO and only TWO main issues.

You're happy with the integrity and security of the pools? ;)

[cj's dad]

I had the distinct pleasure of meeting Theresia at Belmont this year on JCGC day.

She is passionate about the sport, well informed and a fine spokesperson for all of us who enjoy what we do.

[melman]

Bill--No I am not happy with that item. It is a third item. A VERY distant third item IMO> The only Pool Party I would want to see is one held at a low takeout track with signs saying how much less the takeout is at some tracks compared to others. Again IMO not spending all of the effort on the first two items make the others meaningless. I get the impression that some people feel that by working on any item other than the top two will somehow create new players or make new casual fans into serious players. Not gonna happen.

[chickenhead]

I get the impression that some people feel that by working on any item other than the top two will somehow create new players or make new casual fans into serious players. Not gonna happen.

Well ADW access to me would argue against the above -- a state where residents can't bet online, or where they're severely limited on how they can play online -- is a very serious hindrance to people betting.

Being able to bet is a precondition to betting.

[melman]

CH--That's another good point you make. I would call it issue number four. Also IMO a DISTANT fourth behind the top two. Recently I believe even a serious player like cj has posted that his betting has dropped by 20% this year. That is not because he does not have access. Lower the take, cut out the drug problem and issues three and four can be worked on. If you have lower takeout and promote the fact that people are really winning by betting on horses then the other item IMO would fall into place. I'll go this far, most of the regular posters know I am a 99% s-bred player. I also hate the silly new "urging" rule that some harness tracks have put in place. I have not bet a dime on any of those tracks that have adopted this silly rule, however if any of those tracks would drop the takeout by a serious number then I would in fact bet more on those tracks then the ones who do not have the silly new rule. Trust me I hate the new urging rule but the takeout IMO trumps all.

[rrbauer]

Well ADW access to me would argue against the above -- a state where residents can't bet online, or where they're severely limited on how they can play online -- is a very serious hindrance to people betting.

Being able to bet is a precondition to betting.

In Arizona's case, the complete and fundamental disrespect for individual freedom and the basic right of choice shown by them making it a FELONY to bet with an ADW makes support of any pari-mutuel racing in that state a very sick joke.

[chickenhead]

Also IMO a DISTANT fourth behind the top two. Recently I believe even a serious player like cj has posted that his betting has dropped by 20% this year. That is not because he does not have access. Lower the take, cut out the drug problem and issues three and four can be worked on. If you have lower takeout and promote the fact that people are really winning by betting on horses then the other item IMO would fall into place.

I just think they are intertwined -- as a CA resident I am basically blocked from any ADW that offers rebates. I can say without reservation that effects my handle, and Cali isn't exactly a minor state -- it's a major handle driver for the country.

The ADW laws (in Cali at least) are really inseparable from effective takeout because of they way they are written. I'm sure it's much the same in other states either because of explicit language or high source market fees or whatever.

[rrbauer]

I just think they are intertwined -- as a CA resident I am basically blocked from any ADW that offers rebates. I can say without reservation that effects my handle, and Cali isn't exactly a minor state -- it's a major handle driver for the country.



On that note, how many months has it been since the CHRB said it was dropping its opposition to rebating? Was that last February? I believe that Jeff Platt said that he was "on top of it", but it's starting to look like a pretty poor ride.

[chickenhead]

does anyone know how to get a law change pushed through the CA legislature easily?

It must be easy if it's Jeffs fault it hasn't happened yet.

[rrbauer]

does anyone know how to get a law change pushed through the CA legislature easily?

It must be easy if it's Jeffs fault it hasn't happened yet.

I guess that was a shot at my post?

There are no laws to be changed vis-a-vis rebates to Calif ADW customers. The CHRB has indicated that it was standing down. The period for comment and law review have long since passed. And, here is Jeff's post of about two months ago from another thread: http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62003&highlight=California+Rebates

Richard,

I'm on top of it as much as I can be.

Mike Marten of the CHRB told me:


Rebates are now allowed by the CHRB when they were not allowed before. But that's only step one. I'll get to what needs to happen to make rebates in CA a reality in a minute.

The waiting out period for admin law review isn't something intended to give the good ole boys time to head it off at the pass as you suggest. The waiting out and review period is mandated by state law.

But I discovered things were headed off at the pass a long time ago.

I started talking to ADW Operators licensed in California about rebates.

Much to my dismay I discovered that Revenue Distribution by ADWs in California is restricted by California State Law.

Here's the exact passage from the statute:

The bolded part of the above passage from the statute is one of the most bettor unfriendly things I've ever seen written into state law. It's right up there with AZ state law which makes it a felony to bet a horse race over the phone or internet.

My understanding of what it means is that if a California Resident places a wager on a trifecta at Penn National where the takeout is 31 percent - the MAX that the ADW is allowed to keep for itself towards overhead/operating expenses is 6.5% of the amount wagered. Everything above and beyond 6.5% must be forked over to the tracks and the horsemen.

Obviously if the ADW only receives 6.5% there is very little room margin-wise for the ADW to rebate ANYTHING back to the customer.

Players have the fan friendly tracks AND the TOC to thank for this.

The extent to which track operators and leadership of horsemen groups like the TOC will go to screw over the player (without the player ever being aware of it) is simply frightening... and never ceases to amaze me.


I recently pointed out to the CHRB that not only is this one of the most player unfriendly statutes I've ever seen... but this particular statute is costing California Track Operators, California Horsemen, and the State of California general fund millions of dollars a year in lost revenue from depressed handle.

Bottom line:

Industry estimates put total rebated parimutuel handle at about 1.3 biilion a year.

Q. How how much of that handle originates from inside the State of California?

A. Zero.

California State Law causes anybody betting serious amounts of money with half a brain to get an out of state address or play offshore.


-jp

.

Clearly nobody is in a hurry to provide rebates to Calif players and since this was announced, both Del Mar and Oak Tree started their own ADW operations via XpressBet. That's to their advantage because if they are the ADW then they get all the commission either as ADW or simulcast host or live track host for bets made via their operation. So if they have to pay a couple points rebates to be competitive they can easily afford to do so. Indeed they are better positioned than any independent ADW to do that.

I'm just surprised that there isn't more urgency on the part of HANA and its Calif membership as well as other Calif players to move this issue to fruition. It doesn't affect me one way or the other.

[chickenhead]

I guess that was a shot at my post?

As a concerned, very urgently concerned Ca player: If you, or anyone, can get the law changed easily, in a month or three, please speak up. That's all.

There are no laws to be changed vis-a-vis rebates to Calif ADW customers.

the post you quoted quotes the section of the state law that stands in the way of ADW rebates in Cali. There will be no ADW rebates with 6.5% hard limit on their end. What are we talking about?

I'm just surprised that there isn't more urgency on the part of HANA and its Calif membership as well as other Calif players to move this issue to fruition. It doesn't affect me one way or the other.

Things surprise me all the time too.

[rrbauer]

the post you quoted quotes the section of the state law that stands in the way of ADW rebates in Cali. There will be no ADW rebates with 6.5% hard limit on their end. What are we talking about?



.

That law has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH REBATES. It restricts commissions paid to ADW's.

There are ADW's outside Calif paying rebates on Calif action. Calif tracks and their related ADW's get the whole enchilada minus what they pay to the horsemen so the 6.5% is a moot restriction where they're concerned. And, I'm pretty sure that Oak Tree and Del Mar bringing up their own ADW's is simply a workaround to that end. And, the same arrangement is why TwinSpires pays more "rewards" for bets made at CDI tracks than at other TS tracks.

That's what I'm talking about.

[chickenhead]

That law has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH REBATES. It restricts commissions paid to ADW's.

Rebates for any "pure play" rebating ADW, Premier Turf Club et al -- COME FROM THE ADW COMMISSION. RIGHT?

An ADW, taking a wager from a California resident gets the host fee they are paying for that wager, plus a maximum of 6.5%. That 6.5% is their margin to both run their business and pay rebates. I don't see how that can be read any other way.

There are ADW's outside Calif paying rebates on Calif action.

This effects California residents only. From the law:

"Contractual compensation" means the amount paid to an ADW provider from advance deposit wagers originating in this state

Calif tracks and their related ADW's get the whole enchilada minus what they pay to the horsemen so the 6.5% is a moot restriction where they're concerned. And, I'm pretty sure that Oak Tree and Del Mar bringing up their own ADW's is simply a workaround to that end. And, the same arrangement is why TwinSpires pays more "rewards" for bets made at CDI tracks than at other TS tracks.

That's what I'm talking about.

Yes yes yes, when I'm talking about ADWs, I am talking about rebating ADWs that exist and service all the other customers across the country. The ones who understand the business model and want to rebate. I am not specifically talking about the tracks, who might or do run an ADW to grab as much margin as possible, that no one I have ever met here in CA bets with.

So let me rephrase: The California State law keeps out all the ADWs who actually have rebating as part of their business model. Do we agree on that?

If that is not true -- then its the ADWs who need the education, because apparently that is what they believe.

[tribecaagent]

Theresia is my hero....period.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... Having anyone from a group that is supposed to represent horseplayers to a high takeout track is sending the wrong message...

How on Earth will we possibly convince people, be they horsemen, operators, or legislators, that high takeout and illogical ADW laws need remedied without representatives of horseplayers leading the charge?

All I hear and read is how horseplayers need a voice to help remedy these issues and now I'm to believe that the voices best equipped to do it should represent players where it is not an issue?

It rarely is of much benefit to lobby and petition for action that isn't needed.

If you want a voice under the pretense of improvement, you have to actually use it where improvement is most needed.

[riskman]

I notice they edited out all the curse words. Theresia has a big problem with her Tourettes. Every third or fourth word on the conference call. Good to see she kept up her composure for the most part during the interview.


Tsk, Tsk, Tsk

Silence is golden when you can't think of anything good to say.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Tsk, Tsk, Tsk

Silence is golden when you can't think of anything good to say.
I was having fun with her and she knows it. Lighten up.

[boomman]

][/b]How on Earth will we possibly convince people, be they horsemen, operators, or legislators, that high takeout and illogical ADW laws need remedied without representatives of horseplayers leading the charge?

All I hear and read is how horseplayers need a voice to help remedy these issues and now I'm to believe that the voices best equipped to do it should represent players where it is not an issue?

It rarely is of much benefit to lobby and petition for action that isn't needed.

If you want a voice under the pretense of improvement, you have to actually use it where improvement is most needed.

Good question john-I'm assuming that this is the platform that melman
richie p rich bauer and others used to avoid our open forum on facing these concerns head on at our HANA weekend at Yavapai Downs the 1st of August? All HANA members were invited with everything on the house to discuss these issues. Exactly 4 of you showed up! Great way to carve out change, huh? Well even with the small numbers we're working with HANA, have since had a follow-up meeting and we continue to try and move forward!!!!!

Boomer