Goldman, Morgan & oil

[Valuist]

An interesting take from Seeking Alpha today:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/172797-the-global-oil-scam-50-times-bigger-than-madoff?source=article_sb_popular

[DJofSD]

Two part solution: drill-drill-drill and prop up the dollar.

[RichieP]

Telling quote from the article:
"Over the course of an average month at the NYMEX, 5 billion barrels of oil will be traded, with a fee collected on every single transaction. That is ultimately passed down to US consumers, yet less than 40M barrels will actually be delivered. That is just 8 tenths of 1 percent of actual demand for the product that is being traded - ie. 99.2% of the oil transaction fees being paid by the American people do nothing more than create fees for the traders and record profits and bonuses for the trading firms."

Since it is obvious NOTHING will be done about this except lip service the question for us becomes:
Do we like getting :kiss::kiss: before we get fu****

5,000,000,000 traded
< 40,000,000 delivered

GS and friends sentire il dolore, come hanno dato alle nostre famiglie
:ThmbDown:

[DJofSD]

Do we like getting [kissed] before we get fu****
Not with this administration. They view this a rightful punishment for our sinful ways.

[PaceAdvantage]

Telling quote from the article:
"Over the course of an average month at the NYMEX, 5 billion barrels of oil will be traded, with a fee collected on every single transaction. That is ultimately passed down to US consumers, yet less than 40M barrels will actually be delivered. That is just 8 tenths of 1 percent of actual demand for the product that is being traded - ie. 99.2% of the oil transaction fees being paid by the American people do nothing more than create fees for the traders and record profits and bonuses for the trading firms."

Since it is obvious NOTHING will be done about this except lip service the question for us becomes:
Do we like getting :kiss::kiss: before we get fu****

5,000,000,000 traded
< 40,000,000 delivered

GS and friends sentire il dolore, come hanno dato alle nostre famiglie
:ThmbDown:I trade oil every day in my own personal account. Can someone explain the point of this alleged "****ing?"

[skate]

Welp, you're most likely the one to esplain, serious.

i can say this, on a smaller scale, i've seen deliver receipts (2) with different
numbers, which would mean two deliveries, but it came on the same (one) truck as 40,000#, but with the two receipts, you could process as 80,000#.

So, why? i guess 'tax right off'.:confused:


Fuel "is" all about tax, tax...

[Jeff P]

I trade oil every day in my own personal account. Can someone explain the point of this alleged "****ing?"

The article infers several things. My interpretation of points made in the article...

GS helped create a market (ICE) outside the US - beyond the reach of US politicians/regulators so that they (and others) could enjoy a largely unregulated market where they could more freely manipulate prices.

GS once manipulated the price of oil up to bubble levels... and then knowing full well a bubble had been created - stopped supporting the inflated price by pulling their money (the driving force behind support for the inflated price) out - essentially "popping" the bubble. Right now they appear to be going for an encore.

All commodities have some intrinsic (common sense) value that most of us as consumers are are willing to pay. As consumers we understand the concept of supply and demand - and are willing to pay higher prices for something provided demand is high and/or supply becomes limited. According to the article, that scenario isn't what's driving the price of oil skyward...

According to the article the price of oil (and many other commodities) is being driven skyward through market manipulation at ICE...

Which if true is frightening (at least to me) to say the least.

The alleged "****ing" is the inflated price we as consumers pay for just about everything we buy.


-jp

.

[ElKabong]

The article infers several things. My interpretation of points made in the article...

GS helped create a market (ICE) outside the US - beyond the reach of US politicians/regulators so that they (and others) could enjoy a largely unregulated market where they could more freely manipulate prices.

GS once manipulated the price of oil up to bubble levels... and then knowing full well a bubble had been created - stopped supporting the inflated price by pulling their money (the driving force behind support for the inflated price) out - essentially "popping" the bubble. Right now they appear to be going for an encore.

All commodities have some intrinsic (common sense) value that most of us as consumers are are willing to pay. As consumers we understand the concept of supply and demand - and are willing to pay higher prices for something provided demand is high and/or supply becomes limited. According to the article, that scenario isn't what's driving the price of oil skyward...

According to the article the price of oil (and many other commodities) is being driven skyward through market manipulation at ICE...

Which if true is frightening (at least to me) to say the least.

The alleged "****ing" is the inflated price we as consumers pay for just about everything we buy.


-jp

.


Bingo, JP.

For us that listen to Ed Wallace's radio show in DFW (at the 9am hour) on saturdays, we had this info in the summer of 2008 & hear it weekly. Supply and demand had little to do with the price at the pump. The biggest component of the pricing had to do with speculation (the sharks, the suckers, the chumps).

For the "oil report" portion of the show, google KLIF 590, listen in a few minutes past 9am CST. The oil report comes on about 9:10 or so. Gives refinery capacity for the week (79%), inventory at Cushing, and how many (millions/ 100's of thousands) of barrels are sitting in the gulf not being counted into our inventory. For the past 18 months this show's oil report has been an eye opener....and the mainstream was way behind on the subject as usual.

[46zilzal]

Two part solution: drill-drill-drill and prop up the dollar.
Maxed out already

[PaceAdvantage]

The article infers several things. My interpretation of points made in the article...

GS helped create a market (ICE) outside the US - beyond the reach of US politicians/regulators so that they (and others) could enjoy a largely unregulated market where they could more freely manipulate prices.

GS once manipulated the price of oil up to bubble levels... and then knowing full well a bubble had been created - stopped supporting the inflated price by pulling their money (the driving force behind support for the inflated price) out - essentially "popping" the bubble. Right now they appear to be going for an encore.

All commodities have some intrinsic (common sense) value that most of us as consumers are are willing to pay. As consumers we understand the concept of supply and demand - and are willing to pay higher prices for something provided demand is high and/or supply becomes limited. According to the article, that scenario isn't what's driving the price of oil skyward...

According to the article the price of oil (and many other commodities) is being driven skyward through market manipulation at ICE...

Which if true is frightening (at least to me) to say the least.

The alleged "****ing" is the inflated price we as consumers pay for just about everything we buy.


-jp

.This is all well and good, and I dispute none of it...however, the simple fact that many more contracts (barrels) are traded than actually delivered in the end doesn't necessarily point to anything other than the fact that it's a popular trading vehicle. That was the point I was trying to contest.

In an average month at NYMEX, 5 billion barrels of oil could be traded, the price could drop $10 a barrel, consumers will catch a break, everyone will be happy, and still only 40 Million barrels will be delivered...

[RichieP]

The alleged "****ing" is the inflated price we as consumers pay for just about everything we buy.


-jp

.

Exactly

[RichieP]

Exactly

wanted to add this but got timed out:
and many of our families (parents,seniors included)do not trade oil. Once again a "me-me-me" attitude takes over and **** the rest of the people.

It's not Dems'Repubs.

It's the "have's" making sure they "have the most" at the expense of everyone else and honor and ethics are out the window. Absolute GREED corrupts absolutely

Wanna guess why the mafia is a shell of its former self? Because the old ways of honor and respect disappeared in favor of absolute GREED and the "me-me-me" syndrome.

Now wanna guess why THIS country is a shell of what it was both home and abroad and deteriorates by the day?

Wanna guess why gold is $1,150 an ounce??
Let's see if I can connect the dots

[RichieP]

I trade oil every day in my own personal account. Can someone explain the point of this alleged "****ing?"

3 days ago I was in the office of the boss of a pretty large oil company here in Westchester. She had 3 computers running.

She showed me worldwide inventories/ US inventories and refining capabilities.

Then showed me weather forecasts and these "degree day" simulations showing projected coming demand for heating oil here in the Northeast.

Then showed me actual demand TODAY and the previous 30 days.

Bottom line is Market conditions dealing with REAL supply/demand put oil at $53.00 a barrel

53 dollars a barrel

Thanks a lot "ICE" and GS. You can go buy a few more 40 million dollar getaway joints and put a couple dozen more politicians in your back pockets now insuring "business as usual" going forward

[ddog]

3 days ago I was in the office of the boss of a pretty large oil company here in Westchester. She had 3 computers running.

She showed me worldwide inventories/ US inventories and refining capabilities.

Then showed me weather forecasts and these "degree day" simulations showing projected coming demand for heating oil here in the Northeast.

Then showed me actual demand TODAY and the previous 30 days.

Bottom line is Market conditions dealing with REAL supply/demand put oil at $53.00 a barrel

53 dollars a barrel

Thanks a lot "ICE" and GS. You can go buy a few more 40 million dollar getaway joints and put a couple dozen more politicians in your back pockets now insuring "business as usual" going forward



+1000X

Richie

You just have to understand , the trading freaks think that is the economy.

They have mostly never known anything else.

They don't really know why it's that way now or care to know.

It's a sad comment on the times.

You could just as well price the stuff in tulips , the whole point of this market being "made" has been undone. It's just another way to scam those who "aren't smart enough" or "well capitalized enough" to PLAY in it.

A freakshow now , that's all it is.
:ThmbDown:

[PaceAdvantage]

Bottom line is Market conditions dealing with REAL supply/demand put oil at $53.00 a barrel

53 dollars a barrelYou assume the models you were looking at are more accurate than the market. Reality says that the models you saw are off, and market price is off...however far off they both are will translate into where the price of oil moves going forward...

[PaceAdvantage]

+1000X

Richie

You just have to understand , the trading freaks think that is the economy.The shell answer man strikes again....

[highnote]

The shell answer man strikes again....


The "shell" answer man? As in Shell Oil? That's a funny pun, if it was intentional. And if it wasn't intentional, it's hilariously ironic. :D

[PaceAdvantage]

At the time it wasn't intentional...you remember the Shell answer man, don't you?


rOMkvm8k3Iw

[highnote]

Of course I remember the Shell Answer Man. That's why I thought your reply was so funny. I just couldn't tell from the way you phrased it if you intentionally wrote it that way. But no matter how you wrote it, it was funny. :D

[JustRalph]

btw, that is a great tip for driving in town.
:ThmbUp:

[RaceBookJoe]

I trade oil every day in my own personal account. Can someone explain the point of this alleged "****ing?"

Quick question....are you trading oil stocks, oil etfs or oil futures such as the qm ? Strange how crude hasnt jumped despite the weakness of the dollar...i think something is going on. rbj

[highnote]

What did we do before youtube? All these commericals were just vague memories.

Remember this one -- maybe only midwesterners do :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7r6A6YQdtI

[PaceAdvantage]

Quick question....are you trading oil stocks, oil etfs or oil futures such as the qm ? Strange how crude hasnt jumped despite the weakness of the dollar...i think something is going on. rbjFutures...CL....