Mosty's Outfit Skidding

[Pell Mell]

Looks like Mosty's ex-employer is going to create a lot more ex's. Jeez, wouldn't it be a tragedy if his health care ran out of money.:D

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/16/post-office-lost-38-billi_n_359646.html

[DJofSD]

Morpheus: Welcome to the real world.

[Pace Cap'n]

That place has sure gone downhill since he retired.

[Tom]

I wrote my congressman, but he says he never got the letter.

[witchdoctor]

According to Mosty: Profits equal greed. The Post Office is just trying to set a good example for patriotics Americans showing charity begins at home.

[JustRalph]

I wrote my congressman, but he says he never got the letter.

:lol:

[sandpit]

they could further reduce the volume of mail and number of employees if they would eliminate the reams of unsolicited junk mail I get every week. I wish there was a "no junk mail" list like there is for the no-call list for my home phone.

[mostpost]

they could further reduce the volume of mail and number of employees if they would eliminate the reams of unsolicited junk mail I get every week. I wish there was a "no junk mail" list like there is for the no-call list for my home phone.
This is exactly the opposite of correct. Most of the mail the Post Office delivers is Bulk Business Mail. (We were beaten if we called it Junk Mail :D )
The problem is with the pricing. Mailers are given discounts based on volume and the dgree to which they sort the mail. In other words if they package all pieces going to a particular Sectional Center; zip code; or carrier route. This saves the Post Office money in that we don't have to do this work ourselves.
A good idea, BUT, the discounts given EXCEED the money we save. In other words the USPS loses money on presorted Bulk Business Mail. Postal unions have called repeatedly for a revision of this policy but the Bulk Mailing industry has a powerful lobby.

IMPORTANT:
Sandpit: There is a "No Junk Mail" list. Or at least there was when I worked there. Go to your local office and inquire about it. What the list does is remove your name from the list(s) that mailers use. Two things to remember:
One, all mailers of Junk don't necesarily belong to the association that implements this option but it will reduce your junk mail; two the Post Office will deliver all mail with your name and address.
But if your name is not on those lists there shouldn't be any mail to deliver.

[mostpost]

According to Mosty: Profits equal greed. The Post Office is just trying to set a good example for patriotics Americans showing charity begins at home.
No! No! No! Excessive profits equal greed.

[DJofSD]

Define excessive.

[boxcar]

No! No! No! Excessive profits equal greed.

Define excessive in terms of percentages.

Boxcar

[bigmack]

they could further reduce the volume of mail and number of employees if they would eliminate the reams of unsolicited junk mail I get every week. I wish there was a "no junk mail" list like there is for the no-call list for my home phone.
More than a few ways to kibosh the incoming.

http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs4-junk.htm

[bigmack]

This is exactly the opposite of correct. Most of the mail the Post Office delivers is Bulk Business Mail.
The problem is with the pricing. Mailers are given discounts based on volume and the dgree to which they sort the mail. In other words if they package all pieces going to a particular Sectional Center; zip code; or carrier route. This saves the Post Office money in that we don't have to do this work ourselves.
A good idea, BUT, the discounts given EXCEED the money we save. In other words the USPS loses money on presorted Bulk Business Mail. Postal unions have called repeatedly for a revision of this policy but the Bulk Mailing industry has a powerful lobby.
He axed for a way to stop junk mail, that ain't exactly, exactly the opposite of correct. In fact, it wasn't even close to addressing his post.

As one who has utilized bulk mail I know the requirements of such an undertaking. They were/are vast. Sorting was/is a big expense to deliver a piece of mail. When you have stacks of the same piece pre-sorted by the first three zips the sender has done a large amount of sorting in terms of that bundle getting to the office of its delivery.

As with any business, volume can be useful. A carrier is delivering a letter from Martha to Gus. He/she is walking to deliver that mail. How much mail is Martha getting? More with bulk mail and it's been pre-sorted and a further profit source for USPS as the carrier is walking/delivering anywho.

You will never bring to the table an argument that bulk mail is underpriced and less than profitable given its volume.

Remind yourself not to run a company.

[riskman]

More than a few ways to kibosh the incoming.

http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs4-junk.htm

Thanks bigmack for this link. Very informative.

[sandpit]

thanks everybody for the info/viewpoints...I'll look into this at my local P.O.

[boxcar]

You will never bring to the table an argument that bulk mail is underpriced and less than profitable given its volume.

Remind yourself not to run a company.

I nearly fell off my chair in disbelief when I read his inane post. Notice a pattern here? The USPS is never the blame for its ills just like the federal government is never the blame for ours. Once again, the blame gets shifted to the private sector -- to those pesky volume customers of the PO who really control PO policies. :rolleyes: Unreal!

Boxcar

[DJofSD]

Well, don't you know, the private sector and the citizens exist solely for the benefit of the federal government?

[Tom]

So mostpost points out a very valuable bit of info here.
The Federal government is not only losing money in it's attempt to run a business, but it is repeatedly ignoring the requests to stop the nonsense in favor of bowing ( lots of bowing lately) to the demand of lobbyist.

Exactly what is going to happen to government run health care.

Thank you MP, for that important warning.

[DJofSD]

The obvious question: when was the last time the USPS raised the rates for bulk mail? I know when the price of first class postage has gone up, but what about the other rates and classes?

[cj's dad]

thanks everybody for the info/viewpoints...I'll look into this at my local P.O.

Parole Office :confused:

[mostpost]

I nearly fell off my chair in disbelief when I read his inane post. Notice a pattern here? The USPS is never the blame for its ills just like the federal government is never the blame for ours. Once again, the blame gets shifted to the private sector -- to those pesky volume customers of the PO who really control PO policies. :rolleyes: Unreal!

Boxcar
Do you ever get anything right? I never said that. USPS is definitely to blame for the problems at USPS, because they are overly influenced by the "Major Mailers"
Let me explain the term major mailers. Bigmack mentioned that his firm used bulk mail. I'm guessing his firm prepared their mailings themselves. He would not be considered a major mailer. Most larger companies contract out the preparation of bulk mail. The companies to which this process is contracted are the major mailers. (One such company had it's plant in the town in which I worked. I was one of two P.O. employees assigned permanently on site at this company. My partner was there eight hours per day, while I joined him after spending the early morning sorting first class mail at the post office. I spent from four to five hours at the mailer normally.) This particular mailer would send out between 500,000 and 3,000,000 pieces of mail per day. It was not the biggest mailer in the Chicago area.
Our job was to assure that the mail was prepared in accordance with regulations to qualify for discounts and to assure that the outgoing counts were correct. Bulk mail does not have a specific postage marked on each envelope. Postage is deducted from an account which the mailer has at the P.O. Samples are taken from each mailing to determine the weight of an individual piece. Random checks are made to determine all pieces of a mailing are identical. The entire mailing is weighed. (A single mailing may be one bag up to an entire semi.) Then the postage is calculated.
Sorry for the digression!!
The fact is the major mailers do have an influence on postal policy because of the way rates are determined. Now this has changed somewhat since I retired, but I think the essentials are still the same. Postal rates are not set by operational personnel. There is a postal rate commision which holds public hearings on potential changes. The major mailers are persistent and frequent witnesses at these hearings. When the members of the commission are free market advocates and are pro business, the likelihood is that there decisions willl favor private industry.

[mostpost]

The obvious question: when was the last time the USPS raised the rates for bulk mail? I know when the price of first class postage has gone up, but what about the other rates and classes?
I do not know the answer to that recently. When I worked there rates were not always raised across all classes during all increases. And the percentage of increase varied from class to class.

[Show Me the Wire]

Pretty much what boxcar said. The post office acts in the interest of select big businesses, instead of the common good of the general public, which does not want to recieve bulk mailings.

[ddog]

From the sound of most of these posts, not many of you have run a company.

The problem for the USPS is the same as the one facing many states/cities across the country...............


The employees - teachers/fireman/police/postals/regular city workers, the lot , in the main have way too much HC and retirement benefits built into the cost structure.

It can't be supported.

THE USPS is really not much more than a gvt run HC/retirement funding mechanism by another name.

They (as I posted months ago) can not survive the money they have pledged to cover in the out years.


It has nothing much to do with postal rates or bulk mail(welfare to fat biz-really,just another vote buying scam).


You been scammed as usual while you debate free markets v gt this and that.

The free marrket demanded this of their gvt. :lol: :lol:

[bigmack]

welfare to fat biz-really,just another vote buying scam
I haven't listened to side 2 yet. Could ya clue me in on how bulk rates equate to welfare to fat biz and a voting scam?

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/10_29_09_15_42_23.png

[ddog]

I haven't listened to side 2 yet. Could ya clue me in on how bulk rates equate to welfare to fat biz and a voting scam?

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/10_29_09_15_42_23.png



Like I said, many here seem not to understand biz.

Biz goes to gvt - says we want breaks for mailing - gvt says sure. biz says we got some money for you. gvt says - wow bulk mail - let's open some P.o. everywhere in every town and backwoods hole in the country. geee - gvt jobs - we got some votes there to. win win win.

Don't see those much anymore./ :lol:

gvt says - heh we can frank along with that. win win they call it.

Bulk rates are/were a way to capture biz to loop thru to the end prouduct which is ta-da HC/pension funding.

[bigmack]

Like I said, many here seem not to understand biz.
You haven't a clue what you're talking about. Much of the bulk rates are for non-profits.

Take another crack at it and lean into your insufferable tone of being didactic.

[ddog]

non profits - for who?


You need to get some facts for a change.

I like it when you can't do the facts , just hurl your crap.

Perfect for you so called debaters.


Most of the bulk was not when established, for non profits.

I ran a company that HAULED it around.

You need to sit down on this one or go to side 3 maybe.


Debate the loop from the post - i don't take offense to your syrupy - faux artist postings so leave YOUR implied tone out of it.
Just the facts sam.


P.s. didactic - i call it getting to the bottom line.

Maybe out in Hollywood it's a little grating when someone actually comes down from the cloud and states it simpley and directly. Didiactic - only in YOUR mind p-diddy.

[Show Me the Wire]

From the sound of most of these posts, not many of you have run a company.



The postal service is really not a company, but deemed a necessary service to deliver posts by our forefathers.

The issue is whether "junk" mail is part of necessary posts.

[ddog]

The postal service is really not a company, but deemed a necessary service to deliver posts by our forefathers.

The issue is whether "junk" mail is part of necessary posts.


AND I am saying that of course it's not necessay and of course bulk mail is not either and that if it is necessay it's only to prop up the promised benefit side of the ledger. I don't feel it's worth losing money daily and LOSING MONEY ON THE LONG RUN COSTS TO KEEP IT GOING.

No biz man would make that play on the up and up.

The pony express is not running anymore , right?

I am saying to debate the bulk mail by itself is not how someone who runs a biz whould look at it.

The post back a way that lambasted someone for "not running a biz" is the connecting post. If you want to play then play, otherwise head for the non-didactic benchwarmer sidelines.

:D

[boxcar]

Do you ever get anything right? I never said that. USPS is definitely to blame for the problems at USPS, because they are overly influenced by the "Major Mailers"
Let me explain the term major mailers. Bigmack mentioned that his firm used bulk mail. I'm guessing his firm prepared their mailings themselves. He would not be considered a major mailer. Most larger companies contract out the preparation of bulk mail. The companies to which this process is contracted are the major mailers. (One such company had it's plant in the town in which I worked. I was one of two P.O. employees assigned permanently on site at this company. My partner was there eight hours per day, while I joined him after spending the early morning sorting first class mail at the post office. I spent from four to five hours at the mailer normally.) This particular mailer would send out between 500,000 and 3,000,000 pieces of mail per day. It was not the biggest mailer in the Chicago area.
Our job was to assure that the mail was prepared in accordance with regulations to qualify for discounts and to assure that the outgoing counts were correct. Bulk mail does not have a specific postage marked on each envelope. Postage is deducted from an account which the mailer has at the P.O. Samples are taken from each mailing to determine the weight of an individual piece. Random checks are made to determine all pieces of a mailing are identical. The entire mailing is weighed. (A single mailing may be one bag up to an entire semi.) Then the postage is calculated.
Sorry for the digression!!
The fact is the major mailers do have an influence on postal policy because of the way rates are determined. Now this has changed somewhat since I retired, but I think the essentials are still the same. Postal rates are not set by operational personnel. There is a postal rate commision which holds public hearings on potential changes. The major mailers are persistent and frequent witnesses at these hearings. When the members of the commission are free market advocates and are pro business, the likelihood is that there decisions willl favor private industry.

Thank you for making my point. The U.S. government doesn't know diddly squat about how to run a business -- whether it be non-profit or for-profit. The first rule of a business is that you don't let your customers run your business or dictate policy FOR OBVIOUS REASONS! Period! Therefore, the USPS in a huge hole due to its own business ineptitude.

Boxcar

[Show Me the Wire]

The whole picture:

I think the point is how the government screws up everything, using the post office as a perfect example. Instead of serving its original purpose, and the public, it now longer serves the public, by betraying its original purpose to serve big business.

It is being used as a warning about how government run health care would betray the people for specific business interests. The not running a business part is a side show to the main event, government screw-ups of well intentioned concepts.

[bigmack]

Most of the bulk was not when established, for non profits.
Say what?

someone actually comes down from the cloud and states it simpley and directly.
Oh you're simpley alright.

Bulk rates are/were a way to capture biz to loop thru to the end prouduct which is ta-da HC/pension funding.
So when Company A went to USPS in 1928 and said we want to send 500M pieces but we'd like a volume discount the Feds went in the back room
and figured out this HC/pension funding scheme. I get it now. Thanks.

Now when they set-up that scheme why do you suppose they have a commercial & non-profit rate?

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/11_18_09_10_18_43.png

[Tom]

This is a government institution losing money.
What guarantees are there that HC will not be exactly the same?


From the bill only please...form the bill.



tick tock.........

[mostpost]

The employees - teachers/fireman/police/postals/regular city workers, the lot , in the main have way too much HC and retirement benefits built into the cost structure.
I can't speak for the other organizations, but the problem the USPS has in regards to retirement funding is that it is required by law to fund its retirement obligations far into the future. I believe out to 75 years. The following is from the testimony of NALC President Frederic Rolando to the Senate Subcommittee on Financial Management on July 29, 2009.
http://www.nalc.org/depart/legpol/test072909.html

Excerpt:
When you couple the economic crisis with the grossly unfair policy advanced by the previous administration to require the Postal Service to pre-fund a massive 75 year liability for future retiree health benefits over just a 10 year period, it should come as no surprise that the Postal Service faces a crisis of its own. No other company in America is required to prefund future retirement benefits at all, much less at such an accelerated pace. The exorbitant cost of prefunding -- $5.4 billion this year — accounts for most of the $6-7 billion that the USPS has indicated they will lose this year.
According to the Huffington Post article which PellMell linked the loss for FY 2009 was actually 3.8 Billion, which is less than the 5.4 Billion prefunding cost USPS.

[NJ Stinks]

First, I had no idea bulk mail was such a big problem.

The thing I don't understand even remotely is why we expect the U.S. Post Office to show a profit. The general public benefits greatly by mailing a letter out for as little as 44 cents to any address in any state. Try doing the same thing for the same cost with a private company.

Same thing with public transportation. Why would we expect Amtrak to be profitable? Or any form of mass transportation for that matter?

If something like mass trans keeps people off the road, all of us benefit. We need less roads, we use less gas, and have less polution.

Isn't it worthwhile to all of us even if the benefits above have to be subsidized with our tax dollars?

[bigmack]

The thing I don't understand even remotely is why we expect the U.S. Post Office to show a profit.
Remotely, you might find your answer in the article cited in the genesis of this thread.

The Postal Service reported a loss of $3.8 billion last year, despite a reduction of 40,000 full-time positions and other cost-cutting measures.

[boxcar]

First, I had no idea bulk mail was such a big problem.

The thing I don't understand even remotely is why we expect the U.S. Post Office to show a profit. The general public benefits greatly by mailing a letter out for as little as 44 cents to any address in any state. Try doing the same thing for the same cost with a private company.

Same thing with public transportation. Why would we expect Amtrak to be profitable? Or any form of mass transportation for that matter?

If something like mass trans keeps people off the road, all of us benefit. We need less roads, we use less gas, and have less polution.

Isn't it worthwhile to all of us even if the benefits above have to be subsidized with our tax dollars?

Since when did it become fashionable to run businesses at a loss? Oh, wait. You just told us. Because the government can always dip its hands into OUR pockets to fund those losses forever and ever and ever.... Why didn't I ever think of that? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Tom]

Dump the USPS and let private firms handle - at a less cost to us overall and FAR better service.

The USPS is a drain on us taxpayers and provides no real service not available elsewhere.

Like our entire government- worthless!

[DJofSD]

The thing I don't understand even remotely is why we expect the U.S. Post Office to show a profit.
As a taxpayer, I expect them to break even.

[Tom]

The thing I don't understand even remotely is why we expect the U.S. Post Office to show a profit.

Run by the government and staffed by unions......I agree. :lol: