Like a Werewolf, He (obama) only hurts the ones he loves

[JustRalph]

http://www.alternet.org/story/143968/obama's_strongest_supporters_suffering_the_most_in _recession,_while_elites_thrive

I predicted this early on......... in the campaign..........as it becomes more and more true..........some are starting to realize it.............

Obama's Strongest Supporters Suffering the Most in Recession, While Elites Thrive

By Bob Herbert, The New York Times. Posted November 16, 2009.

The young, the black and the poor are among those who are being hammered unmercifully in this long and cruel economic downturn that the financial elites are telling us is over.

resident Obama’s strongest supporters during the presidential campaign were the young, the black and the poor -- and they are among those who are being hammered unmercifully in this long and cruel economic downturn that the financial elites are telling us is over.

If the elites are correct, if the Great Recession really is over, then these core supporters of the president are being left far, far behind -- as are blue-collar workers of every ethnic and political persuasion. Nobody wants to talk seriously about class in America, but the elites are smiling and perusing their stock portfolios while the checklist of Americans locked in depressionlike circumstances just grows and grows: construction and manufacturing workers, young men without college degrees (especially young black and Hispanic men), teenagers, and those who were already poor when the recession began.

The economic environment for all of these groups is an absolute and utter disaster.

Now we’re learning that unmarried women are among those being crushed by the epidemic of joblessness. As the Center for American Progress has noted, “The high unemployment rate of unmarried women, and particularly the 1.3 million unemployed female heads of household who are primary breadwinners for their families, is devastating to their financial circumstances and standard of living.”

Mr. Obama announced this week that he would convene a jobs summit at the White House next month to explore ways of putting Americans back to work. It remains to be seen whether the summit will yield anything substantial. But it’s fair to wonder why the president and his party have not been focused like fanatics on job creation from the first day he took office.

more at the link

click here (http://www.alternet.org/story/143968/obama's_strongest_supporters_suffering_the_most_in _recession,_while_elites_thrive)

[boxcar]

I love the last line:

We’ll get a chance to see at President Obama’s employment summit whether anything much has changed.

Wasn't this the guy who ran on "hope and change"? He's gotten us deeper into trouble, now they expect him to work another of his "change" miracles because the first set of them have pretty much failed?

How many of you libs out there are hopin' and holdin' out for more positive change from your guy? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[prospector]

i "hope" to "change" congress next year...

[JustRalph]

Now the Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/23/AR2009112304092_pf.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/images/homepage/logos/twp_logo_300.gif
Blacks hit hard by economy's punch
34.5 percent of young African American men are unemployed
By V. Dion Haynes
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, November 24, 2009

These days, 24-year-old Delonta Spriggs spends much of his time cooped up in his mother's one-bedroom apartment in Southwest Washington, the TV blaring soap operas hour after hour, trying to stay out of the streets and out of trouble, held captive by the economy. As a young black man, Spriggs belongs to a group that has been hit much harder than any other by unemployment.

Joblessness for 16-to-24-year-old black men has reached Great Depression proportions -- 34.5 percent in October, more than three times the rate for the general U.S. population. And last Friday, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that unemployment in the District, home to many young black men, rose to 11.9 percent from 11.4 percent, even as it stayed relatively stable in Virginia and Maryland.

His work history, Spriggs says, has consisted of dead-end jobs. About a year ago, he lost his job moving office furniture, and he hasn't been able to find steady work since. This summer he completed a construction apprenticeship program, he says, seeking a career so he could avoid repeating the mistake of selling drugs to support his 3-year-old daughter. So far the most the training program has yielded was a temporary flagger job that lasted a few days.

"I think we're labeled for not wanting to do nothing -- knuckleheads or hardheads," said Spriggs, whose first name is pronounced Dee-lon-tay. "But all of us ain't bad."

Construction, manufacturing and retail experienced the most severe job losses in this down economy, losses that are disproportionately affecting men and young people who populated those sectors. That is especially playing out in the District, where unemployment has risen despite the abundance of jobs in the federal government.

Traditionally the last hired and first fired, workers in Spriggs's age group have taken the brunt of the difficult economy, with cost-conscious employers wiping out the very apprenticeship, internship and on-the-job-training programs that for generations gave young people a leg up in the work world or a second chance when they made mistakes. Moreover, this generation is being elbowed out of entry-level positions by older, more experienced job seekers on the unemployment rolls who willingly trade down just to put food on the table.

more at the link

[Tom]

Good thing the democrat party has a "big tent."
Many people will be living in it soon.

[JustRalph]

http://www.thegrio.com/opinion/black-joblessness-could-cripple-obamas-presidency.php

Black joblessness could cripple Obama's presidency
By Dr. Boyce Watkins
12:42 PM on 04/02/2010

Obama's race problem just got a little deeper. As the rest of the country is starting to see light at the end of the economic tunnel, the African American community just walked into a deeper, darker crawl space than the one it was in before. The Bureau of Labor Statistics recently released unemployment data for the month of March, finding that unemployment for whites remained steady, while the jobs numbers for African Americans tanked, going from 15.8 percent unemployment to an astonishing 16.5 percent.

The labor reports don't look good for President Obama, who has been met with considerable pressure from members of the black community to improve the jobs situation for people of color. There are some who argue, with good reason, that the president is simply not working as hard for black folks as he is for everyone else. it can also be said that Obama's massive effort to fight the job shortage throughout the United States seems to have been working to a certain degree. The month of March was good for most Americans, who were spared further increases in the rate of unemployment. The bad news for the president and his economic advisors is that the rising tide is not raising all ships.

Here's the breakdown of what President Obama may or may not be looking at this morning (depending on whether or not his advisors even ask him to consider the data): African-Americans continue to have an unemployment rate that is 88 percent higher than that of whites (8.8 percent vs. 16.5 percent). Black women have a rate that is 70 percent greater than white women (7.3 percent vs. 12.4 percent) and black men endure an unemployment rate that is 113 percent higher than that of white men (8.6 percent vs. 19 percent). I ask this question of the president: If white Americans have the right to be angry and complain about 8.8 percent unemployment, then does that mean African-Americans have a right to be twice as angry?

Another intriguing dimension of the data is that ever since whites were met with a peak unemployment rate of 9.7 percent in March 2009, their rate has declined to 8.8 percent, a drop of roughly 10 percent. African-Americans, on the other hand, have seen their unemployment rate rise during the same time period, from 16.2 percent to 16.5 percent. While white men have seen their unemployment rate drop dramatically from 10.7 percent to 8.9 percent, black men have seen almost no decline in their unemployment rate, which has held steady at a whopping 19 percent. So, not only is the rising tide not raising all ships, it is actually allowing some ships to continue to sink or at least remain deeply under water.

more at the link

[46zilzal]

SINCE TIME BEGAN, those that have, have money and the have nots don't....No surprise there as it has ALWAYS been that way.

[BlueShoe]

SINCE TIME BEGAN, those that have, have money and the have nots don't....No surprise there as it has ALWAYS been that way.
????. Can someone interpret this for us, what is he trying to say? Perhaps it is just me, but just dont quite get it. These Zillyisms can be real head scratchers. But then again, liberals rarely make sense, do they.

[46zilzal]

????. Can someone interpret this for us, what is he trying to say? Perhaps it is just me, but just dont quite get it. These Zillyisms can be real head scratchers. But then again, liberals rarely make sense, do they.
Rich people stay rich and the rest don't

[boxcar]

????. Can someone interpret this for us, what is he trying to say? Perhaps it is just me, but just dont quite get it. These Zillyisms can be real head scratchers. But then again, liberals rarely make sense, do they.

That is a rhetorical question, right? :lol:

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Rich people stay rich and the rest don't

Huh? The "rest" don't what!? The rest who don't have anything don't stay rich? :bang: :bang:

Another classic Zillyism. I see that you have zero experience in critical thinking, zil. You might want to look into that deficiency. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

Rich people stay rich and the rest don't

Yeah, right.............This is America.......work hard and you will improve.

Be smart, Upright, Moral and have some work ethic.......... you will succeed.

[mostpost]

This, just in:
RECESSION HURTS POOR AND DISADVANTAGED
Some important facts here; the recession began during the previous administration; the recession was caused by the economic policies of the previous administration; the previous administration did nothing to stop or ameliorate the recession.
While being hamstrung and harrassed at every turn by Republicans the Obama adminstration has initiated measures which have begun a slow but steady recovery. The stimulus package has seen 162,000 new jobs created in March alone. Cash for Clunkers kick started automobile sales. And for those of you who were crying last fall that those sales would negatively affect future sales, Toyota Sales in March 2010 were up more than 40% over March 2009. General Motors sales were up more than 40% and Ford sales were up over 40%. Only Chrysler sales declined.

The upturn in the economy has been slow to translate to more jobs, but it would have been much slower had we implemented the goofy Republican recovery plan.

[46zilzal]

Yeah, right.............This is America.......work hard and you will improve.

Be smart, Upright, Moral and have some work ethic.......... you will succeed.
BULL SHIT...from experience the fat cats have to do NOTHING as compared to the rest of us,,,,Daddy fixes it up for them.

[GaryG]

The upturn in the economy has been slow to translate to more jobs, but it would have been much slower had we implemented the goofy Republican recovery plan.You have data on this?

[mostpost]

Yeah, right.............This is America.......work hard and you will improve.

Be smart, Upright, Moral and have some work ethic.......... you will succeed.
This simplistic statement is as far from the truth as any statement can be. Many people live in big houses and drive fancy cars who did nothing to earn that privilege. Some of them inherited wealth; some of them hitched their wagon to a rising star.
At the opposite end I have known many people who have worked very hard their entire lives and have little to show for it. They did not succeed, not because the failed to work hard. They did not succeed because they lacked something else. It may have been sufficient intelligence. It may have been a lack of capital. It may have been a lack of opportunity. Hard work or the lack thereof had nothing to do with it.
Then you say if you are Upright and Moral you will succeed. If that is a requirement how do you explain Al Capone and Bernie Madoff. Tell me again how moral the executives at Enron were.

I don't mean to say that anyone should just sit back and hope fame and fortune fall into his lap, but not everyone who works hard succeeds; not everyone who has a great idea benefits from that idea.

[boxcar]

BULL SHIT...from experience the fat cats have to do NOTHING as compared to the rest of us,,,,Daddy fixes it up for them.

What about all the people who earn their wealth? About all those who understand what is meant by the "Land of Opportunity" and seized upon their opportunities to better their station in life? What about all the small to medium-sized businesses whose owners very often put in 12-hour days to make their 250k+ annually? What's the matter: In your perverse world of Class Envy, these kinds of people have no place?

Boxcar

[boxcar]

http://www.thegrio.com/opinion/black-joblessness-could-cripple-obamas-presidency.php

Black joblessness could cripple Obama's presidency
By Dr. Boyce Watkins
12:42 PM on 04/02/2010

Obama's race problem just got a little deeper. As the rest of the country is starting to see light at the end of the economic tunnel, the African American community just walked into a deeper, darker crawl space than the one it was in before. The Bureau of Labor Statistics recently released unemployment data for the month of March, finding that unemployment for whites remained steady, while the jobs numbers for African Americans tanked, going from 15.8 percent unemployment to an astonishing 16.5 percent.

The labor reports don't look good for President Obama, who has been met with considerable pressure from members of the black community to improve the jobs situation for people of color. There are some who argue, with good reason, that the president is simply not working as hard for black folks as he is for everyone else. it can also be said that Obama's massive effort to fight the job shortage throughout the United States seems to have been working to a certain degree. The month of March was good for most Americans, who were spared further increases in the rate of unemployment. The bad news for the president and his economic advisors is that the rising tide is not raising all ships.

Here's the breakdown of what President Obama may or may not be looking at this morning (depending on whether or not his advisors even ask him to consider the data): African-Americans continue to have an unemployment rate that is 88 percent higher than that of whites (8.8 percent vs. 16.5 percent). Black women have a rate that is 70 percent greater than white women (7.3 percent vs. 12.4 percent) and black men endure an unemployment rate that is 113 percent higher than that of white men (8.6 percent vs. 19 percent). I ask this question of the president: If white Americans have the right to be angry and complain about 8.8 percent unemployment, then does that mean African-Americans have a right to be twice as angry?

Another intriguing dimension of the data is that ever since whites were met with a peak unemployment rate of 9.7 percent in March 2009, their rate has declined to 8.8 percent, a drop of roughly 10 percent. African-Americans, on the other hand, have seen their unemployment rate rise during the same time period, from 16.2 percent to 16.5 percent. While white men have seen their unemployment rate drop dramatically from 10.7 percent to 8.9 percent, black men have seen almost no decline in their unemployment rate, which has held steady at a whopping 19 percent. So, not only is the rising tide not raising all ships, it is actually allowing some ships to continue to sink or at least remain deeply under water.

more at the link

Bottom Line: That BO trick of Trickle Up Economics ain't workin' so swell. We'd probably have a much better chance seeing molasses defy the law of gravity be trickling up a mountainside in the dead of winter. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

This simplistic statement is as far from the truth as any statement can be. Many people live in big houses and drive fancy cars who did nothing to earn that privilege. Some of them inherited wealth; some of them hitched their wagon to a rising star.
At the opposite end I have known many people who have worked very hard their entire lives and have little to show for it. They did not succeed, not because the failed to work hard. They did not succeed because they lacked something else. It may have been sufficient intelligence. It may have been a lack of capital. It may have been a lack of opportunity. Hard work or the lack thereof had nothing to do with it.
Then you say if you are Upright and Moral you will succeed. If that is a requirement how do you explain Al Capone and Bernie Madoff. Tell me again how moral the executives at Enron were.

I don't mean to say that anyone should just sit back and hope fame and fortune fall into his lap, but not everyone who works hard succeeds; not everyone who has a great idea benefits from that idea.

In reference to your friends who worked hard and got nowhere, I would refer you back to line 2 of my post. BE SMART

You using Capone and Madoff as examples of success? Corrupt Immoral characters who were imprisoned ?

Capone went to prison at age 33 and died at 48 after living 15 yrs of a miserable life dominated by prison sentences and syphilis

Madoff lived high on the hog, but will die in prison and has suffered severe beatings in his first year there. Real success stories you picked.

You and Zilly sound like the kid who gets mad and takes his ball home. I stand by my statement. In the U.S. you work hard and smart, be moral and upright, you can succeed. You will improve your place in life.

[boxcar]

I stand by my statement. In the U.S. you work hard and smart, be moral and upright, you can succeed. You will improve your place in life.

This is far more than most liberals can chew on and digest. What they excel at is whining about how terribly unfair life is and calling good evil and evil good. Most of them are as morally bankrupt as their ideology which defines them.

Boxcar

[GaryG]

I don't mean to say that anyone should just sit back and hope fame and fortune fall into his lap, but not everyone who works hard succeeds; not everyone who has a great idea benefits from that idea.So what is your point? Sure, some industrious souls failed to succeed due to circumstances out of their control. But plenty of them did succeed. And many are well off from their own intelligence and labor, not having something handed to them. Maybe we should make this even more of a welfare society than it is at present.

[Warren Henry]

Bush ruined me and my daddy didn't leave me any inheritance. Woe is me. I think I will just crawl in a hole and be bitter. If I vote Dem, will it get better. :lol:

[mostpost]

You have data on this?
We've gone over this before, but I will give you a couple of examples.
Here are three websites which, used in conjunction, prove my point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php
http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet

Between 1981 and 1982 Reagan cut the top rate from 70% to 50%. The unemployment rate stood at 7.5% in January of 1981. In January of 1983 it was 10.4%
When GWB took office the unemployment rate was 4.2%. Eight years later, despite two tax cuts it had more than doubled.

[Tom]

BULL SHIT...from experience the fat cats have to do NOTHING as compared to the rest of us,,,,Daddy fixes it up for them.

Maybe you have just never had experience with truly good people, hard workers, honest people of ethics and strong moral fiber. Maybe they have avoided you?

[mostpost]

You using Capone and Madoff as examples of success? Corrupt Immoral characters who were imprisoned ?
They were examples of people who were not moral yet enjoyed at least temporary success. Perhaps they were bad examples, but there are many other examples of people who scammed the system while remaining within the letter of the law. Morality is not a prerequisite for success. God does not send a bolt of lightning from the sky if you fudge your taxes or cut corners in manufacturing a product.

[Tom]

Coming from a union background, you have no real frame of reference to hard work to get ahead. In the real world, you get judged and rewarded on your merit, not your hired thugs.

[mostpost]

Coming from a union background, you have no real frame of reference to hard work to get ahead. In the real world, you get judges and rewarded on your merit, not your hired thugs.
Coming from a union background I have worked fifteen hour days. I've loaded semis with 25, 50 and even 70 pound sacks of mail, by hand. I've delivered mail in snow storms where you could not see the houses across the streets. I would say I worked six day weeks well over half the time I spent at the Post Office.
For a portion of my Post Office career, I was the onsite clerk at a mailing house. This is a private company which prepares bulk mailings for clients. My job was to stand by the scale and weight the pallets of mail as the company employees brought them to us. We soon discovered that if we waited for them to get the pallets from the stock line, bring them to us to be weighed and then load them on the truck it was often impossible to complete the task in the time alotted. So I grabbed a lift truck, put my clipboard and weigh sheet on the truck and took over the job of bringing the pallets to the scale.
After I recorded the weight the company's employee would take the pallets to the dock and onto the truck while I went to get the next load from stock
But since I am Union I must be lazy. :bang: :bang: :bang:

[mostpost]

Coming from a union background, you have no real frame of reference to hard work to get ahead. In the real world, you get judged and rewarded on your merit, not your hired thugs.
I refuse to answer you twice. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[JustRalph]

?
They were examples of people who were not moral yet enjoyed at least temporary success. Perhaps they were bad examples, but there are many other examples of people who scammed the system while remaining within the letter of the law. Morality is not a prerequisite for success. God does not send a bolt of lightning from the sky if you fudge your taxes or cut corners in manufacturing a product.

Damn straight they were bad examples. They were two of the worst I could imagine.

Morals do not come from GOD or Religious teaching. Morals are developed, nurtured through time and differ in many cultures. Laws are divined from the common moral ground shared by communities of people. They are decided on by the leaders of a common culture. Individual morality is a matter of integrity, honesty, etc. Absent mental illness the ability to discern right and wrong exists in all of us. We decide what our personal morals will be. Ethical motivation is inherent in all of us. We alone decide what path to follow.

These decisions include how to treat others. How to react to others. What we decide is moral or immoral is a learned behavior, that connects with our internal moral compass. Examples are mature males who change over time and experience. Many of us as young men were much more callous and free spirited than we are now. I dare say that some men never come to maturity, and it is obvious in some cases. (http://temple3.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/bill_clinton_yeahihitit.jpg) Others find their moral compass early on. They grow and learn to solve moral questions easily while still young. Others, it takes longer. Being smart about it is an advantage. Advancing age and experience is an ally in finding your personal moral compass. Those decisions you make reflect on you. They also reflect in everything you do. Including career decisions and advancing opportunities in your life. Immoral men may coast by in life for certain periods of time, like those Zilly mentions, who's parents provide them everything in their life (for reference, See the most recent generation of the Kennedy's) but most end up alone or abandoned and without a stable life or relationship. Religion may have a role for some. I find it not necessary in many successful persons I know. When it comes down to it, hard work and moral fiber are always an advantage. No matter where you live, but especially in the U.S.

[Buckeye]

Just Ralph,

God is never unnecessary. He was here before we were (I think!).

As for unions, being an "out-shoot" of Free Speech-- I support them fully. They are not (and CANNOT be) the culprit. America just needs to get back to being who we are. That's all. Which means rejecting Socialism. If only it were so simple, eliminate unions and solve everything.

[Buckeye]

ok, want to hear a little story, God made me walk again because I prayed for it.

Big point. I prayed for Him to do it.

Sure, I have an education, and can handicap to some extent, but He made me walk again. Nice to know. :)

and very powerful, me? I have NO power.

[boxcar]

Damn straight they were bad examples. They were two of the worst I could imagine.

Morals do not come from GOD or Religious teaching. Morals are developed, nurtured through time and differ in many cultures. Laws are divined from the common moral ground shared by communities of people. They are decided on by the leaders of a common culture. Individual morality is a matter of integrity, honesty, etc. Absent mental illness the ability to discern right and wrong exists in all of us. We decide what our personal morals will be. Ethical motivation is inherent in all of us. We alone decide what path to follow.

You're dead wrong on this aspect of your post. While it is true that morals are developed and nurtured over time (mainly by our parents as we grow and mature), your conclusion begs the question as to the source of them. From where do all these cultures, in turn, derive their "common" moral ground? Did morality originate with man? Is man the inventor of morality? In most cultures, murder is slightly frowned upon. Ditto for lying, cheating or stealing, etc.,etc. Why is this? Or for that matter, why are the vast majority of people on the planet religious? Why do most people "believe in God"? Is there a connection between this universal consciousness (or instinct) of God and of morality? The answer to this last question is found in Romans 1:18-22; 2:14-15. Because man is made in God's image, he is a moral being and has a consciousness of his creator. Morality, then, originates with our creator -- whether you suppress this truth and choose to not believe in a creator or not. ;)

Boxcar

[toetoe]

SINCE TIME BEGAN, those that have, have money and the have nots don't....No surprise there as it has ALWAYS been that way.




Foremost authorities identifying themselves as velociticians have e'er been with us. I tell ya, 'twas evva thus !



'Twould not favor. 'Twould not favor. The horror ... (:Arm o'er eyes.)

[Buckeye]

I agree with Boxcar. Morals come from God and are not "developed".

What the F do we know about morals as we are not moral?

Give me an counter example if you dare. Most people are "connected" with God-- and "hear' and obey. Do you reject all this and think we can go back to the freakin Moon anytime soon? Didn't think so. Listen accept and Read and work through Him.

Hey wait a minute! Want to step up to the plate and prove God is an imaginary figure and doesn't exist at all? Good luck with that. Is God just someone for weak nitwits to turn to? No. He's very real. More real than reality. He made me walk again. He created the earth not you.
.

[Buckeye]

It's a silly argument really, who's greater, God or us?

Let's state the obvious, God is greater.

Happy Easter.

[skate]

Rich people stay rich and the rest don't

Aaaaaa, daaa, itdont have nutin to do with enthusiasm, dude it?

gees:kiss:

[JustRalph]

Let's agree to disagree on where Morals come from. There are cultures that don't believe in God, they have set their own moral standards. They may be different than ours......but you don't have to read a bible or be preached to, to find a moral compass and make decisions on right or wrong. There also groups that proclaim to believe in a God that may participate in immoral activities, based on what "their God" believes. To them, it is not immoral. To me, I might disagree.

Either way, wherever you find your own moral compass, your own inner compass and choose what is right or wrong............good for you. I got no beef with you.

[newtothegame]

Just Ralph,

God is never unnecessary. He was here before we were (I think!).

As for unions, being an "out-shoot" of Free Speech-- I support them fully. They are not (and CANNOT be) the culprit. America just needs to get back to being who we are. That's all. Which means rejecting Socialism. If only it were so simple, eliminate unions and solve everything.

Unions....hmmmm ...
On one hand, libs love unions. Unions provide the "most" for them financially to save them from the big bad corporations who only exist to make all the money and kill their workers. Am I right so far???
On the other hand, libs scream and complain when companies pull out of a state or even worse, the country, due to financial strains that are placed upon them by several reasons of which are included, UNION demands that are obtained through negotiations and bargaining.
There was a time for Unions....safety was an issue in alot of work places. Unions remedied this for the most part along with the emergence of OSHA.
But explain to me now how to keep corporations PROFITABLE with competing companies from overseas who have not the same rules to play by?
Would it be nice if the entire world lived under the same regulations and had to abide by the same pay scales? Somehow though I doubt seriously chairman MAO cares little about your union beliefs.
What part of we wish to trade with the rest of the world, but you libs wish to play by rules other then the world has established?
I know I know...lets get rid of wal mart.....right mosty???
Want to know why wal-mart is a POWER HOUSE in american retail....???
CAUSE I would guess to say that above 90 % of america shops there. Everone wants those low prices!!! Thats what you libs don't understand...you want the low prices but you have no clue as to the affects of buying there! Then you want to turn around and scream about companies that wal mart has put out of business because they couldnt remain competitive.
Talk about wanting your cake and eat it too!!!!
There is NO such thing as CO-EXIST in the business world. Everyday is a fight to be better then your competitor. This requires many things as well as lower and lower profit margins. And if you wish to increase your profit margins, you do one of two things...find LOWER priced materials to make your products, or you find cheaper labor.
In Americans haste to become lazy.....they have brought this on themselves.
We want it all...but don't want to give it all.
Bottom line is if you ask the business to give up its profits....the workforce suffers from the aspect of not being able to higher and in some cases forcing layoffs. No business....and let me repeat this...NO BUSINESS is in the business world to lose money. It will not ever happen unless you work for the government!!

[mostpost]

CAUSE I would guess to say that above 90 % of america shops there. Everone wants those low prices!!! Thats what you libs don't understand...you want the low prices but you have no clue as to the affects of buying there! Then you want to turn around and scream about companies that wal mart has put out of business because they couldnt remain competitive.
Personally I NEVER shop at WalMart. I don't care how low their prices are. I don't like how they treat their employees, but I also don't like how they treat their suppliers. WalMart is the schoolyard bully of commerce.
Do I have any illusions that the Walton family doesn't sleep at night because I don't shop there? No. I do it (or don't do it for myself)

[johnhannibalsmith]

...Toyota Sales in March 2010 were up more than 40% over March 2009. General Motors sales were up more than 40% and Ford sales were up over 40%. Only Chrysler sales declined.
...

I know that you are a stickler for data and I'd hate to see you post on one of your other usual right-leaning forums and get called on this slightly misleading report of yours.

The deals brought out car buyers, as Toyota's generous rebates and low-interest financing to counter safety-related recalls forced rivals to respond. Toyota reported its sales surged 41 percent in March compared to a year ago. The gains follow a dismal February, when sales fell 9 percent due to the recalls of millions of vehicles.

GM reported a 21 percent jump in new vehicle sales on Thursday, while Ford's climbed nearly 40 percent and Honda rose 23 percent over last March, when economic uncertainty and rising unemployment kept buyers from showrooms. Sales at Hyundai and Subaru also rose, but Chrysler continued to struggle with sales down 8 percent.

So you were a little high on Ford, which is understandable, but at first glance, you are way off on GM. But, let it be known that it may not be your fault as you probably learned this from someone painting the rosiest possible picture of our country's favorite auto maker.

GM sales from its four core brands - Buick, GMC, Chevrolet and Cadillac - rose 43 percent to 188,546. Redesigned vehicles like the Chevrolet Equinox midsize crossover and Buick LaCrosse luxury sedan saw strong sales.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/01/business/main6353737.shtml

:)

Oh yeah, and what a crappy author of that article just scouring the depths of his mind for a different adjective to describe every gain in revenue... surged... jumped... climbed... you'd think was about a septathalon or something.

[NJ Stinks]

Let's agree to disagree on where Morals come from. There are cultures that don't believe in God, they have set their own moral standards. They may be different than ours......but you don't have to read a bible or be preached to, to find a moral compass and make decisions on right or wrong. There also groups that proclaim to believe in a God that may participate in immoral activities, based on what "their God" believes. To them, it is not immoral. To me, I might disagree.

Either way, wherever you find your own moral compass, your own inner compass and choose what is right or wrong............good for you. I got no beef with you.

JustRalph, I'm with you on this 100%. :ThmbUp:

[PhantomOnTour]

Werewolves only hurt the ones they love? Are you sure? I thought when a werewolf was feelin it he would f#*k up just about anyone...but you say only those he loves huh?

Gotcha.


Where did you get that phrase? :lol: :lol:

[mostpost]

I know that you are a stickler for data and I'd hate to see you post on one of your other usual right-leaning forums and get called on this slightly misleading report of yours.

The deals brought out car buyers, as Toyota's generous rebates and low-interest financing to counter safety-related recalls forced rivals to respond. Toyota reported its sales surged 41 percent in March compared to a year ago. The gains follow a dismal February, when sales fell 9 percent due to the recalls of millions of vehicles.

GM reported a 21 percent jump in new vehicle sales on Thursday, while Ford's climbed nearly 40 percent and Honda rose 23 percent over last March, when economic uncertainty and rising unemployment kept buyers from showrooms. Sales at Hyundai and Subaru also rose, but Chrysler continued to struggle with sales down 8 percent.

So you were a little high on Ford, which is understandable, but at first glance, you are way off on GM. But, let it be known that it may not be your fault as you probably learned this from someone painting the rosiest possible picture of our country's favorite auto maker.

GM sales from its four core brands - Buick, GMC, Chevrolet and Cadillac - rose 43 percent to 188,546. Redesigned vehicles like the Chevrolet Equinox midsize crossover and Buick LaCrosse luxury sedan saw strong sales.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/01/business/main6353737.shtml

:)

Oh yeah, and what a crappy author of that article just scouring the depths of his mind for a different adjective to describe every gain in revenue... surged... jumped... climbed... you'd think was about a septathalon or something.
Thanks for the correction. I got my figures from a couple of different radio reports. It is definitely possible that the 43% increase by GM referred only to its four core brands. (As you highlighted above)

[JustRalph]

Werewolves only hurt the ones they love? Are you sure? I thought when a werewolf was feelin it he would f#*k up just about anyone...but you say only those he loves huh?

Gotcha.


Where did you get that phrase? :lol: :lol:

It is in reference to the "old" Werewolf movies. Circa Lon Cheney etc.

Not that new fangled romantic Werewolf shit they produce today........

[Buckeye]

"But explain to me now how to keep corporations PROFITABLE with competing companies from overseas who have not the same rules to play by?"

I need only one word to answer your question. Patriotism. Buy american and hire american. "Tough times don't last only tough guys do." Ask me sometime who that quote is attributed to. Suffice it to say he was right.

[Buckeye]

and as for moral compasses being somehow born into imperfect beings, I seriously doubt that. By definition they would be imperfect.

[newtothegame]

"But explain to me now how to keep corporations PROFITABLE with competing companies from overseas who have not the same rules to play by?"

I need only one word to answer your question. Patriotism. Buy american and hire american. "Tough times don't last only tough guys do." Ask me sometime who that quote is attributed to. Suffice it to say he was right.

What your saying is nice in thought...but I would bet to say you can't find most items needed that are made in america any more.
This is the root of the problem. America barely produces anything anymore. And the few items that are american made, are priced out of the market. So, the american people (who are trying to save money in this economy) will almost always by the lower priced "wal-mart" items. And those items that are american made there are few and far between...so back to square one for ya.....:bang:

[hcap]

Good thing the democrat party has a "big tent."
Many people will be living in it soon.As compared to the hole they previously inhabitrd?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_anqVy8b414Q/S7X2VXaZCvI/AAAAAAAAC7Q/waQLT_fSmt0/s1600/up_and_down_jobs.jpg


Remember the inauguration of 09?
Who was that guy just before?

[PaceAdvantage]

So the recession is over then?

[ArlJim78]

Democrats took control of congress in 2007 and they've been working their magic ever since. The bad news is they're not done yet. they've got several new big tax hikes in the pipeline, just for good measure.
http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/graphics/CES0000000001_190771_1270409213243.gif

[JustRalph]

You better get out another chart for what those measly jobs cost. You will find that Obama has created a couple hundred thousand jobs that average a paycheck of 52-88k a year, and they cost the Gubbermint about 500k each.

Nice work, you don't have to be a math genius to figure out Dem spending. Give away half a million to employ someone at 50-80k ............ :bang:

Take the Census Temp jobs out of the last report and it is over 30% worse than it shows.

[boxcar]

You better get out another chart for what those measly jobs cost. You will find that Obama has created a couple hundred thousand jobs that average a paycheck of 52-88k a year, and they cost the Gubbermint about 500k each.

Nice work, you don't have to be a math genius to figure out Dem spending. Give away half a million to employ someone at 50-80k ............ :bang:

Take the Census Temp jobs out of the last report and it is over 30% worse than it shows.

This is called getting Reverse Bang for the Buck! :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[cj's dad]

Yopu stated that you were a UNION MEMBER and we all know that you were an employee of the Federal Government !!!!

HAHAHAHAHA !!

Yeah, a strike against them really works; ask the Air traffic Controllers !!

there is no UNION vs. the Feds.

Reminder: the Feds are not a private enterprise; they have UNLIMITED FUNDS !!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!

Join a REAL UNION and find out what a strike is like; you are clueless in this matter.

UNION ?!?! HAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!

[witchdoctor]

Yopu stated that you were a UNION MEMBER and we all know that you were an employee of the Federal Government !!!!

HAHAHAHAHA !!

Yeah, a strike against them really works; ask the Air traffic Controllers !!

there is no UNION vs. the Feds.




I don't know. I was at the VA and a patient had a cardiac arrest. During the code, the only nurse at the code walked away from the patient to take a coffee break because it was her time for the break. The patient died and I filed an incident report. We were told that there was nothing we could do since she was union and if I tried to take this to another level, I would be fired. I love government health care. :bang:

[Buckeye]

What your saying is nice in thought...but I would bet to say you can't find most items needed that are made in america any more.
This is the root of the problem. America barely produces anything anymore. And the few items that are american made, are priced out of the market. So, the american people (who are trying to save money in this economy) will almost always by the lower priced "wal-mart" items. And those items that are american made there are few and far between...so back to square one for ya.....:bang:

Not only in thought, as americans have been "buying things" from elsewhere for thirty plus years while ignorant of the slogan. They have not only not produced, they have supporting their enemy. But all that will change.

Everybody loves America? :) Not quite. Don't need love that much.

[Buckeye]

Leaders don't need love to support them. I could even be right about this.

"Buy American and hire American, tough times don't last only tough guys do."

or do you still think you can do whatever the f you want? Drive your SUV etc.?

Good luck with that.

[GaryG]

If it were not for the ridiculous wages paid to union workers we still might be competitive with our automobiles and other heavy equipment. Electronics has been long gone since nearly all U.S. owned companies many years ago started doing the design here and production overseas. I doubt they even do design now. The auto industry is a shining example....unions cooked the golden goose with their greed.

[Buckeye]

well so what. What new products or new inventions theories ideas are these imitators going to come up with?

I'm still waiting.

[ElKabong]

The last 2 corp's I've worked for are foreign owned (Sweden, France). Both were/ are adamantly against unions & made it clear that if a union were to ever enter the picture they'd set up shop in another state.

If unions could see themselves from the outside in and see the corruption (100s of millions to 0kaka--- and probably some to mccain), see the losses of jobs they cough up (to offshore w/ cheaper labor) or the losses of jobs other states rec'v instead of union friendly states, they'd have a different opinion....jmo.

[ElKabong]

and...i guess i should add that I've never had the need to want to join a union. I've worked for fair corp's. They've never missed a paycheck in response to my results or my time. No boss looking over my shoulder, checking to see if i took a minute over a lunch break, etc.

Always have been treated with respect by my superiors & the corp's i've worked for rec'd a lot of productivity from their workforce in return. With unions there's a built in mistrust.....always at odds, quibbling over small bullshit, which leads to bigger arguements. Does no one any good.

Like i've said, PD's and FD's need unions. Others too (mineworkers, etc), but jobs with no physical dangers and no particular skills are not good candidates for "union jobs". Those people price themselves out very quick nowdays.....most union workers have no grip on what their real worth truly is.

[ArlJim78]

If it were not for the ridiculous wages paid to union workers we still might be competitive with our automobiles and other heavy equipment. Electronics has been long gone since nearly all U.S. owned companies many years ago started doing the design here and production overseas. I doubt they even do design now. The auto industry is a shining example....unions cooked the golden goose with their greed.
that's why they're now concentrating on government jobs, union membership is now higher in government than in the private sector. it will take them awhile to bankrupt the government, like they have every other industry. but I have faith that they'll succeed in bleeding that one dry also.

[toetoe]

They did not succeed because they lacked something else. It may have been sufficient intelligence.



What an eloquent argument for dumbing down everything. I agree that a pessimistic attitude is more in line with human nature, but let's not wring our hands over nescience, or blame our system for its presence in our citizenry.

[BenDiesel26]

Coming from a union background I have worked fifteen hour days. I've loaded semis with 25, 50 and even 70 pound sacks of mail, by hand. I've delivered mail in snow storms where you could not see the houses across the streets. I would say I worked six day weeks well over half the time I spent at the Post Office.
For a portion of my Post Office career, I was the onsite clerk at a mailing house. This is a private company which prepares bulk mailings for clients. My job was to stand by the scale and weight the pallets of mail as the company employees brought them to us. We soon discovered that if we waited for them to get the pallets from the stock line, bring them to us to be weighed and then load them on the truck it was often impossible to complete the task in the time alotted. So I grabbed a lift truck, put my clipboard and weigh sheet on the truck and took over the job of bringing the pallets to the scale.
After I recorded the weight the company's employee would take the pallets to the dock and onto the truck while I went to get the next load from stock
But since I am Union I must be lazy. :bang: :bang: :bang:

Exaggerate much??? My dad carried mail for 37 years, just recently retired. He never joined the union. He worked his ass off. Carried mail through snow, etc. etc. Never exaggerated like you that "he couldn't see the house across the street." (aka I walked to school 6 miles, uphill, both ways, give me a break) Always got his one day a week off (it rotated, work week started Saturday, then so you got Monday off one week, then Tuesday, and so on until you go to Friday and in which case you got a three day weekend) Often times when his supervisor rode along, he was forced to actually slow down (at request of his supervisor) for doing his work too fast. He was required to be in certain places at certain times even if he had to go incredibly slow. He could deliver his mail within an hour or two after lunchtime, like 99% of most normal people could. He would often use his leave to go home once he was done so that he didn't have to go back and help deliver the mail of his union buddies who were loitering around on their routes and earning overtime. Based on your comments, I can now see that you were just like his union buddies, lurking around and earning overtime hours because you didn't work half as hard as he did. Thanks. He's pissed they're about to go to five day weeks now that he retired.

[NJ Stinks]

that's why they're now concentrating on government jobs, union membership is now higher in government than in the private sector. it will take them awhile to bankrupt the government, like they have every other industry. but I have faith that they'll succeed in bleeding that one dry also.

I must be missing something. I thought the air traffic controllers were fired for going on strike. If you can't go on strike as a government employee, what kind of leverage do you bring to the table? :confused:

In short, how do you devastate your employer with a wiffleball bat?

[ArlJim78]

I must be missing something. I thought the air traffic controllers were fired for going on strike. If you can't go on strike as a government employee, what kind of leverage do you bring to the table? :confused:

In short, how do you devastate your employer with a wiffleball bat?

pledging money, votes and their labor to Democrats, they have become the most powerful special interest in the country. they basically own the president. that is pretty good leverage, and its paying off handsomely.

[BenDiesel26]

pledging money, votes and their labor to Democrats, they have become the most powerful special interest in the country. they basically own the president. that is pretty good leverage, and its paying off handsomely.

aQ1NJaCtIkM

He works the the SEIU, not Americans. He told straight up told us so, the media just chooses not to cover it. It's right here. Proof positive. Why people refuse to listen, I don't know. The SEIU admits it as well, saying they are getting paid back for the 60 million they put into his campaign.

[Tom]

In short, how do you devastate your employer with a wiffleball bat?

Wow, that really says it all about you libs. You should be ashamed, but I know you are really proud of that stupid attitude.

Try this on for size - the federal employee's employer is the USA.
Your attitude and statement make me see you as no different than Al
Qeda. Only YOU have a better opportunity to screw this country than Osama does. Proud? :ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

[GaryG]

I must be missing something. I thought the air traffic controllers were fired for going on strike.That was a great moment in history....RR threw them out, new ones were hired and business as usual. Guess they weren't as indispensable as they thought.

[NJ Stinks]

pledging money, votes and their labor to Democrats, they have become the most powerful special interest in the country. they basically own the president. that is pretty good leverage, and its paying off handsomely.

OK, I looked it up. In the last year I found figures (2008), there were 4,206,000 federal employees. Of those almost half were in the military and the military leans Republican.

http://www.opm.gov/feddata/HistoricalTables/TotalGovernmentSince1962.asp

Another 16M worked for state and local governments in 2006 (the last year I found statistics). And it's fun to add that Texas had 1.3M government employees in 2006 - 2nd highest in the nation behind CA. :)

http://www.bcnys.org/whatsnew/2007/0305stlocal.htm

Added together we had around 20M government employees going into the 2008 presidential election. I don't know how many of them are Republicans or just not Dems but if I said 40% are not Dems, that may or may not be fair. Assuming it is fair, that's about 12M Dems working for either the fed, state, or local governments. Obama won in 2008 with about 67M votes so I'm guessing 18% of his votes (12/67) came from government employees. McCain received 58M votes so I'm guessing 14% of his votes (8/58) came from government employees. Put another way, Obama won by 7.5M votes. Obama received about 12M votes from government employees and McCain received about 8M from government employees - a difference of 4M votes.

If the numbers above make government employees "the most powerful special interest in the country" as you suggest, I think the Religious right would object strongly. So would various ethnic groups with much larger voting bases.

[BenDiesel26]

OK, I looked it up. In the last year I found figures (2008), there were 4,206,000 federal employees. Of those almost half were in the military and the military leans Republican.

http://www.opm.gov/feddata/HistoricalTables/TotalGovernmentSince1962.asp

Another 16M worked for state and local governments in 2006 (the last year I found statistics). And it's fun to add that Texas had 1.3M government employees in 2006 - 2nd highest in the nation behind CA. :)

http://www.bcnys.org/whatsnew/2007/0305stlocal.htm

Added together we had around 20M government employees going into the 2008 presidential election. I don't know how many of them are Republicans or just not Dems but if I said 40% are not Dems, that may or may not be fair. Assuming it is fair, that's about 12M Dems working for either the fed, state, or local governments. Obama won in 2008 with about 67M votes so I'm guessing 18% of his votes (12/67) came from government employees. McCain received 58M votes so I'm guessing 14% of his votes (8/58) came from government employees. Put another way, Obama won by 7.5M votes. Obama received about 12M votes from government employees and McCain received about 8M from government employees - a difference of 4M votes.

If the numbers above make government employees "the most powerful special interest in the country" as you suggest, I think the Religious right would object strongly. So would various ethnic groups with much larger voting bases.

The SEIU is the most powerful special interest in the country. The proof is in the pudding. Obama has said this much. The SEIU has said this much. Andy Stern is the most frequented visitor to the Whitehouse, and the Apollo Alliance has had a hand in writing the stimulus and the healthcare bill. What is it that is so hard to understand about this?

[JustRalph]

That was a great moment in history....RR threw them out, new ones were hired and business as usual. Guess they weren't as indispensable as they thought.

I remember how shocked my Dad was that Ronnie Pulled the trigger on that. He was stunned............but he cheered him for doing it.

[Tom]

Great moments in history - Ronnie took out the trash. I applauded.
That would get the economy going today, I bet - fire the unions boys and hire productive, dedicated workers in their place! :lol:

[NJ Stinks]

Great moments in history - Ronnie took out the trash. I applauded.


Yea, but did you immediately book a flight? :p

[ElKabong]

Another 16M worked for state and local governments in 2006 (the last year I found statistics). And it's fun to add that Texas had 1.3M government employees in 2006 - 2nd highest in the nation behind CA. :)
.


And, it's fun to inform you that Texas is the 2nd most populus state, behind CA. Thus, we have the 2nd most gubmint employees.

I imagine NASA is a big chunk of that #, but i dunno....and don't care.

If i were a pol in DC, I'd want to set up shop here too. Low cost of living. A more assertive than avg workforce. They get more for their buck here.

[NJ Stinks]

And, it's fun to inform you that Texas is the 2nd most populus state, behind CA. Thus, we have the 2nd most gubmint employees.



I just said it was fun, Elkabong - not illogical. :)

[Buckeye]

The last 2 corp's I've worked for are foreign owned (Sweden, France). Both were/ are adamantly against unions & made it clear that if a union were to ever enter the picture they'd set up shop in another state.

If unions could see themselves from the outside in and see the corruption (100s of millions to 0kaka--- and probably some to mccain), see the losses of jobs they cough up (to offshore w/ cheaper labor) or the losses of jobs other states rec'v instead of union friendly states, they'd have a different opinion....jmo.

Look, it's clear the owners nearly always try and "screw" people who work for them by definition. That's where unions come in, or used to come in. Split the difference and give workers half-- that seems fair to me. Give or take, but give the worker something. The owner slash manager should understand it's only due to those supposedly beneath them: they are "on top." Work together or workers just might have to start a union. That's how it happened.

[ElKabong]

Buck,

Everyone in our bldg got a bonus twice last year, and our business was wayyy down. Why would i want a union?

Like I've said, unions do serve a purpose for those that risk their lives ona daily basis. For mail sorters, admin's, mechanics and others that don't face that kind of environment aren't doing themselves any favors by joining a union. Your part of the country is a good example. Unions have hurt your economy.

[Buckeye]

Unions are a response to owners taking and not giving what they should to the WORKER who after all does the work. It's perfectly legal and correct for workers to organize and counter the tendencies of the owners.

[Buckeye]

Let's agree to disagree on where Morals come from. There are cultures that don't believe in God, they have set their own moral standards. They may be different than ours......but you don't have to read a bible or be preached to, to find a moral compass and make decisions on right or wrong. There also groups that proclaim to believe in a God that may participate in immoral activities, based on what "their God" believes. To them, it is not immoral. To me, I might disagree.

Either way, wherever you find your own moral compass, your own inner compass and choose what is right or wrong............good for you. I got no beef with you.

So what you're really saying is nothing? Could it be God is greater but maybe not? Make up your mind son. We are greater or He is greater. I don't care if certain cultures do something do you? I think the Bible tells us man is imperfect or do you need MORE evidence to support that idea? Do morals come from an imperfect source? Very doubtful.

[boxcar]

JR wrote:
Let's agree to disagree on where Morals come from. There are cultures that don't believe in God, they have set their own moral standards. They may be different than ours......but you don't have to read a bible or be preached to, to find a moral compass and make decisions on right or wrong. There also groups that proclaim to believe in a God that may participate in immoral activities, based on what "their God" believes. To them, it is not immoral. To me, I might disagree.

Either way, wherever you find your own moral compass, your own inner compass and choose what is right or wrong............good for you. I got no beef with you.

Even Buddhism didn't deny the existence of gods; therefore, can you tell us what cultures don't believe in one or more deities? Just curious....

Boxcar

[Buckeye]

I'm saying I don't care who doesn't believe in God because there can only be one. Who the F started this Universe anyway? Just a question.

Next question?

[Buckeye]

oh ok, it was started by toyota? Give me a freakin break please. Nor was it started by the USA although we conformed to some extent to lead the World for the past 250 years! The Law was laid down and the USA conformed to it for the most part to lead the world. Hey wait a minute that's wrong, we led the World because we had a Constitution and sacrificed allot? Not quite, and give me a break, the reason we stand on top is only because we are a Nation "under God"
get that through your thick scull.

[Buckeye]

I do not think it's a coincidence the USA controls or used to control the World. Do you? Or whould you rather try and go the the Moon again? I hereby resign and stop trying to teach anybody anything.

[hcap]

Even Buddhism didn't deny the existence of gods; therefore, can you tell us what cultures don't believe in one or more deities? Just curious....

BoxcarYou know as much about Buddhism as a rightwing religious loonie knows of compassion and empathy
......Of what use is psuedo-religious understanding in the hand of a fool, since he has no desire to get wisdom? -- BS. 17:16

we led the World because we had a Constitution and sacrificed allot? Not quite, and give me a break, the reason we stand on top is only because we are a Nation "under God" get that through your thick scullHey Buck you and boxie should get a room

[boxcar]

You know as much about Buddhism as a rightwing religious loonie knows of compassion and empathy
......Of what use is psuedo-religious understanding in the hand of a fool, since he has no desire to get wisdom? -- BS. 17:16

Hey Buck you and boxie should get a room

I have forgotten far more about Buddhism than you'll ever know about Christianity.

Boxcar

[Buckeye]

There is only one true God (if he exists) and I know he does because He made me walk again and I prayed for it. The Pastor of my Church prayed for it too. Stop talking shit and just admit there are NOT at least eight Gods? and Deny there is even one God at your own peril.

He does exist and that's the good news. Get in touch with Him.

[Buckeye]

I don't consider it a bad thing to be a Religion-ologist to coin a phrase, because anyone who disagrees or agrees is one too. Or do you think you know everything?

[Buckeye]

me myself I know absolutely nothing which is consistent with what I said before, believe it or not.

[hcap]

I have forgotten far more about Buddhism than you'll ever know about Christianity.

BoxcarYou have forgotten a great deal about EVERYTHING.

Gods are beside the point in Buddhism

"There's a Zen story in which a professor visited a Japanese master to inquire about Zen. The master served tea. When the visitor's cup was full, the master kept pouring. Tea spilled out of the cup and over the table.

"The cup is full!" said the professor. "No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," said the master, "You are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"

If you want to understand Buddhism, empty your cup box. In fact if you want to understand any religion

[cj's dad]

You have forgotten a great deal about EVERYTHING.

Gods are beside the point in Buddhism

"There's a Zen story in which a professor visited a Japanese master to inquire about Zen. The master served tea. When the visitor's cup was full, the master kept pouring. Tea spilled out of the cup and over the table.

"The cup is full!" said the professor. "No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," said the master, "You are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"

If you want to understand Buddhism, empty your cup box. In fact if you want to understand any religion

Touching story; I wept openly :lol:

[JustRalph]

You have forgotten a great deal about EVERYTHING.

Gods are beside the point in Buddhism

"There's a Zen story in which a professor visited a Japanese master to inquire about Zen. The master served tea. When the visitor's cup was full, the master kept pouring. Tea spilled out of the cup and over the table.

"The cup is full!" said the professor. "No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," said the master, "You are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"

If you want to understand Buddhism, empty your cup box. In fact if you want to understand any religion

So the Buddhists belong to the Tea Party crowd............Cool!!!

[boxcar]

You have forgotten a great deal about EVERYTHING.

Gods are beside the point in Buddhism

"There's a Zen story in which a professor visited a Japanese master to inquire about Zen. The master served tea. When the visitor's cup was full, the master kept pouring. Tea spilled out of the cup and over the table.

"The cup is full!" said the professor. "No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," said the master, "You are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"

If you want to understand Buddhism, empty your cup box. In fact if you want to understand any religion

Such awesome words of wisdom! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I heard the last time you emptied your cup, your skull relieved itself of its brain all over the ground and like water absorbed by the earth, it has never been found again.

Boxcar

[hcap]

Deities are not necessary in Buddhism. Deities are symbols.
So your remark about Even Buddhism didn't deny the existence of gods; therefore, can you tell us what cultures don't believe in one or more deities? is missing the mark. Another definition of "sin". Without the context of good and evil

So much of the Buddhist world and thought is obviously what you forgot. Wht else are you going to brag about in your usual pompous full of it Boxcarian proclamatory manner?? I have forgotten far more about Buddhism than you'll ever know about Christianity. Tell me another fire and brimstone tale from the stuffy Boxcarian archives of missing the mark

[hcap]

There's a Zen story in which a professor visited a Japanese master to inquire about Zen. The master served tea. When the visitor's cup was full, the master kept pouring. Tea spilled out of the cup and over the table.

"The cup is full!" said the professor. "No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," said the master, "You are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"

If you want to understand Buddhism, empty your cup box. In fact if you want to understand any religion
Touching story; I wept openly :lol:
Hot tea spill on your lap? :D

[boxcar]

Deities are not necessary in Buddhism. Deities are symbols.
So your remark about is missing the mark. Another definition of "sin". Without the context of good and evil

So much of the Buddhist world and thought is obviously what you forgot. Wht else are you going to brag about in your usual pompous full of it Boxcarian proclamatory manner?? Tell me another fire and brimstone tale from the stuffy Boxcarian archives of missing the mark

I see you've made a vain attempt at trying to refill your cup of it lost contents.
You'd have better success at chasing the wind and catching it. :rolleyes:

Now, tell me, O Wise One, what does it mean to "miss the mark" in Christianity? How do we more mortals miss that "mark"?

Boxcar

[hcap]

Sin has taken on a context that complicates the problem of the archer
Discerning the target and aiming the arrow is closer to the original meaning

The "sin" word that is used most frequently in the Bible is hamartia, "missing the mark".

ha·mar·ti·a (hämär-t)
n.
Tragic flaw.
[Greek, from hamartanein, to miss the mark, err.]

[boxcar]

Sin has taken on a context that complicates the problem of the archer
Discerning the target and aiming the arrow is closer to the original meaning

The "sin" word that is used most frequently in the Bible is hamartia, "missing the mark".

ha·mar·ti·a (hämär-t)
n.
Tragic flaw.
[Greek, from hamartanein, to miss the mark, err.]

Thanks for the Greek lesson. (But I knew that. :rolleyes: ) But what is missing the mark?. How do we miss that mark? Or better yet...what is the "mark"?

Boxcar

[hcap]

You might have just as well asked "What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

You like paradoxes. :rolleyes:

Missing the mark is much simpler than you think.

But it requires serious self understanding. I suspect your tea cup is WAY too full.

[boxcar]

You might have just as well asked "What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

You like paradoxes. :rolleyes:

Missing the mark is much simpler than you think.

But it requires serious self understanding. I suspect your tea cup is WAY too full.

I did not ask a trick question, 'cap. The answer is in scripture if you wish to find it. God has revealed to us what it is to miss the mark.

And while there is some truth that missing the mark is pretty simple given that all men do so easily, naturally and even thoughtlessly; I would submit to you, however, that "hitting the target" is an impossible task for man! (Mk 10:27).

Forget paradoxes, 'cap. Catch-22 dilemmas trump those. ;)

Boxcar

[Buckeye]

It's no paradox that God exists when it's impossible to prove otherwise! The very fact that the World was not destroyed during the Cold War is in my opinion proof. It's also impossible to prove a negative. Look it up.

[Buckeye]

You might have just as well asked "What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

You like paradoxes. :rolleyes:

Missing the mark is much simpler than you think.

But it requires serious self understanding. I suspect your tea cup is WAY too full.

and if you want to learn first empty your teacup.

Sound familiar?

[Buckeye]

otherwise, tea is all over the table. :)

[Buckeye]

I see you've made a vain attempt at trying to refill your cup of it lost contents.
You'd have better success at chasing the wind and catching it. :rolleyes:

Now, tell me, O Wise One, what does it mean to "miss the mark" in Christianity? How do we more mortals miss that "mark"?

Boxcar

all men miss the mark, even me millions of times. But! Jesus Christ paid for it. Otherwise explain death? We are all going to die someday right?
`

[Buckeye]

It's not the flag that's fluttering it's your mind.

[boxcar]

all men miss the mark, even me millions of times. But! Jesus Christ paid for it. Otherwise explain death? We are all going to die someday right?
`

Of course. But evolutionists like 'cap ascribe only natural causes to this universal phenomenon when in fact, they are only symptoms of the real problem, which is spiritual in nature.

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

close it.................God Please Close it!!!! :bang:

[boxcar]

close it.................God Please Close it!!!! :bang:

JR, is that actually a prayer to God? You of all people. Who would have ever thunk it? :D

Boxcar