One Last Thing

[11cashcall]

Though i share this with everyone.


1950's the average starts for the HOY was 12.5 starts;
1960's the average starts for the HOY was 11.5 starts;
1970's the average starts for the HOY was 10.6 starts;
1980's the average starts for the HOY was 9.4 starts;
1990's the average starts for the HOY was 9.3 starts;
2000-2004 average starts for the HOY was 7.6 starts.

2004 winner Ghostzapper 4 starts 4 wins including 2 G1, 1 G2, and 1 G3, total of 11 career races;

2005 winner Saint Liam 6 starts 4 wins 1 place and 1 off the board. 4 Grade 1 wins;

2006 winner Invasor 4 starts 4 wins 4 G1 wins;

2007 winner Curlin 9 starts 6 wins 1 place 2 shows;
2008 winner Curlin 7 starts 5 wins 1 place 1 off the board, 4 G1 wins.
Career record 16 starts 11 wins 2 places 2 shows 1 off the board.
Zenyatta in 2009, 5 starts 5 wins, 4 G1 wins 1 G2 win.
Career record 14 starts 14 wins. Seems to be plenty to compare campaigns with previous HOY winners. Zenyatta HAS done enough to win HOY by existing standards.

Finally, if you want to argue abt the fact Z-One did'nt race outside Socal
this yr. on Dirt that's fine, just remember that the connections of RA refused to run her on anything but dirt and beyond 1 1/8.

Sincerely,

Devil's Advocate :)

[DJofSD]

Thanks for the stats.

It'll be interesting to see where this thread goes since it touches on any number of issues, the least of which is another perspective on the 2009 HoY and Z v. RA arguements.

[Bochall]

What does number of starts in a given year have to do with HOTY? Is there a mandated minimum times a horse has to run to be eligible for an Eclipse? If not, then your point is invalid. Didnt Rachel run 9 times this year...four more than Zen? Why would one use number of starts to promo Zen when Rahcel has more races.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: . Why is the number of starts in her CAREER a factor for HOTY? This isnt a lifetime achievement award!!!!!!!

[tzipi]

Though i share this with everyone.


1950's the average starts for the HOY was 12.5 starts;
1960's the average starts for the HOY was 11.5 starts;
1970's the average starts for the HOY was 10.6 starts;
1980's the average starts for the HOY was 9.4 starts;
1990's the average starts for the HOY was 9.3 starts;
2000-2004 average starts for the HOY was 7.6 starts.

2004 winner Ghostzapper 4 starts 4 wins including 2 G1, 1 G2, and 1 G3, total of 11 career races;

2005 winner Saint Liam 6 starts 4 wins 1 place and 1 off the board. 4 Grade 1 wins;

2006 winner Invasor 4 starts 4 wins 4 G1 wins;

2007 winner Curlin 9 starts 6 wins 1 place 2 shows;
2008 winner Curlin 7 starts 5 wins 1 place 1 off the board, 4 G1 wins.
Career record 16 starts 11 wins 2 places 2 shows 1 off the board.
Zenyatta in 2009, 5 starts 5 wins, 4 G1 wins 1 G2 win.
Career record 14 starts 14 wins. Seems to be plenty to compare campaigns with previous HOY winners. Zenyatta HAS done enough to win HOY by existing standards.

Finally, if you want to argue abt the fact Z-One did'nt race outside Socal
this yr. on Dirt that's fine, just remember that the connections of RA refused to run her on anything but dirt and beyond 1 1/8.

Sincerely,

Devil's Advocate :)


Yes,they do not run these horses like they used to. People have to wait forever to see their favorite horse run these days.
Also RA ran at like 8 different tracks on a surface horses have been running on for well,well over a hundred years in the sport. She traveled everywhere too. Zen stayed in one place on a synthetic surface and never had to travel.

Don't know why Rachael would get knocked for traveling to MANY tracks to run on a surface they have been running on for 150+ years.
Man O War traveled everywhere to run on just dirt. I guess those connections where nervous about MAN O WAR and stayed on that dirt surface.

[toussaud]

bigger purses

[zerosky]

It looks like by the year 2090 the horse of the year will be an unraced weanling

[Show Me the Wire]

I wonder what Steve R. feels about the above? Especially in relation to his question regarding the current hardiness of the breed.

Shame a young, healhty horse like R.A. made it to the track only 8 times.

[proximity]

Finally, if you want to argue abt the fact Z-One did'nt race outside Socal
this yr. on Dirt that's fine, just remember that the connections of RA refused to run her on anything but dirt and beyond 1 1/8.
:)

did they shorten the preakness??

[tzipi]

Yeah why are people just making up things to bash on her. She clearly ran more than a mile and a 1/8 and won by how much?

[tzipi]

Shame a young, healhty horse like R.A. made it to the track only 8 times.

I know,if they could've kept Rachel at just Belmont and maybe Saratoga against the girls,she would've probably rattled off 13 or 14 undefeated races this year. Not being funny,I'm being serious. It would have been alot easier on her.

[Show Me the Wire]

I know,if they could've kept Rachel at just Belmont and maybe Saratoga against the girls,she would've probably rattled off 13 or 14 undefeated races this year. Not being funny,I'm being serious. It would have been alot easier on her.

Yes, I am sure keeping her against her vastly inferior foes (open length wins) would be easier. I am being serious too, because she is that good. However, I still don't think she would have raced 14 times in this day and age.

[Steve 'StatMan']

It looks like by the year 2090 the horse of the year will be an unraced weanling

Yeah! Seems like it!

At $16 Million to purchase at auction, The Green Monkey should have been THE Horse Of The Year that year. Not Race Horse Of The Year of course. But by dollars, more than anyone paid for any other horse that year. :D

[Linny]

There is no such thing as "enough to be HOY." It's all relative. Some years are easier than others.
How about this: Your 3yo colt wins the Swale, the Gotham (new track record) and the Wood Mem. He's second in the Derby and Preakness, wins the Belmont then beats older in the Whitney. He wins the Travers, Woodward and Jockey Club Gold Cup. He ends the year 2nd by a neck in the BCC. Nice!!
He wasn't even 3yo male champ let alone HOY. Easy Goer was born the wrong year. In fact the same could be said for his sire Alydar.

[11cashcall]

did they shorten the preakness??


Yeah my bad, that was'nt intended.

Bochall,

Yes RA did run 4 more times that Z,however their's been a criteria set the last few yrs. regarding older horses when compared to other HOTY honors
by existing standards.

[DeanT]

It looks like by the year 2090 the horse of the year will be an unraced weanling

:D

My funny for the day.

[11cashcall]

Someone made a good point"Do we make the same distinctions when we crown the Super Bowl Champion? Do we note the difference between natural field teams and turf teams? I have yet to hear, that the Super Bowl Champion was the best Artificial Turf team this year, and that is why they won."

Im not bashing RA nor am i considered a fan of Z. As i stated earlier,am playing Devils Advocate here.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Well, there is no voting for NFL Team Of The Year. There is an agreed to playoff system and the Championship Game is called the Super Bowl. Gotta win through the playoffs and win that game to be the Super Bowl/NFL League Champ. Now, does that necessarily mean that the Best Team In The NFL is also the NFL Champion/Super Bowl Winner? Often yes, but some real good teams lose either by bad luck or errors - as they say, any given sunday, any NFL team can win.

[cj]

Someone made a good point"Do we make the same distinctions when we crown the Super Bowl Champion? Do we note the difference between natural field teams and turf teams? I have yet to hear, that the Super Bowl Champion was the best Artificial Turf team this year, and that is why they won."

Im not bashing RA nor am i considered a fan of Z. As i stated earlier,am playing Devils Advocate here.

The difference between natural grass and artificial turf is pretty minimal these days. The analogy doesn't matter matter anyway because in football, there isn't a subjective measure to determine the champion.

Had the Breeder's Cup done a better job over the years, we might have that in racing. Purse money for races nobody cares about could have been added to the bigger races to draw better fields, for example.

I'll never advocate that one race should be the be all and end all of the season. That type of thinking has already killed a lot of high class racing in this country, and it any case, it just wouldn't work with horse racing. You can't force owners to run and you can't stop horses from getting hurt.