Roosevelt Raceway. Pictures? Memories?

[tzipi]

Does anybody know where to find pictures of inside the grandstand from when they rebulit the "Dream Track". I've seen pics of outside just never inside.

Boy,reading about that track and how state of the art it was,it's a shame they ruined it. Idiots bought it just to sell off the land onced they killed the racing. I lived right by it but by the time I was betting age it was closed. Sucks they ruined one of the greatest harness tracks in the world! I remember meadowbrook pkway and near my house having lit up skies from the tons of lights Roosevelt installed. I would've loved to goto one of the International Trot championships.

Sad that there's is no real picture documentation of the track except for some outside shots on peoples webpages for Roosevelt.

[wilderness]

Are you looking for some unique photo?
Perhaps Ed Sullivan taking a leak in a specific rest room?
One of the NY Mayors eating a hot dog at one of the specific concession stands?
Or some other unique inside location?

Generally speaking, photographers (past and present) haven't spent a great deal of time wasting photo shots are empty large areas that were designed to hold large quantities of wagering fans.

There are some unique photo's of Roosevelt Raceway in the Time-Life archives at Google (http://images.google.com/images?q=roosevelt+raceway&q=source%3Alife)

The Harness Museum at Goshen, NY has some 8,000 photo's (and many video's as well) (in their closet for nearly twenty years) earmarked under the
Roosevelt Raceway Legacy Project (http://www.harnessmuseum.com/pages/main-home-page-info/roosevelt-project2.html). Unfortunately the project has been put on hold due to lack of funding/contributions (150k+) from multiple sources, most of which would be supporters of the Harness Museum. Whether these photo's contain any inside shots of RR is unknown.

BTW, I was there is the spring of 1986 and the place was a dump by then with only the upstairs open.

When I was there in early 70's the crowd was massive. And I had little time for exploration.

[tzipi]

Are you looking for some unique photo?
Perhaps Ed Sullivan taking a leak in a specific rest room?
One of the NY Mayors eating a hot dog at one of the specific concession stands?
Or some other unique inside location?

Generally speaking, photographers (past and present) haven't spent a great deal of time wasting photo shots are empty large areas that were designed to hold large quantities of wagering fans.

There are some unique photo's of Roosevelt Raceway in the Time-Life archives at Google (http://images.google.com/images?q=roosevelt+raceway&q=source%3Alife)

The Harness Museum at Goshen, NY has some 8,000 photo's (and many video's as well) (in their closet for nearly twenty years) earmarked under the
Roosevelt Raceway Legacy Project (http://www.harnessmuseum.com/pages/main-home-page-info/roosevelt-project2.html). Unfortunately the project has been put on hold due to lack of funding/contributions (150k+) from multiple sources, most of which would be supporters of the Harness Museum. Whether these photo's contain any inside shots of RR is unknown.

BTW, I was there is the spring of 1986 and the place was a dump by then with only the upstairs open.

When I was there in early 70's the crowd was massive. And I had little time for exploration.


Thank You,those are great pics of the old track. I never meant did photgraphers take photos of the 80's track when it was empty. I meant the old track where it was in it's prime and packed inside.

[harness2008]

There are some nice videos out there from the early 80's from WOR-TV with Stan Bergstein and Spencer Ross. I think it was the old half hour OTB shows that aired each week.

[wilderness]

There are people whom could describe to you the physical characteristics of each wall, column or other objects within the raceway during its prime. Unfortunately there is little interest in such details, or at least enough to reward the providers of such details with an appeasement.

You previously provided that you were too young when RR was open to have visited?

I'll provide some scenarios which you may not be aware of:
1) Those times (1960's, 70's and 80's) were different times than today. There were not cell phones, nor even wireless in-house phones, digital cameras or many other innovations of technology that exist today.
Once the live races began, the few public pay phones within the grounds were turned off, so that race results could not be called out (as required by law and to prevent post-race-wagers with bookies.
Nobody could call or page a patron whom was attending the races.

2) during those times most of the horses rather than being shipped in daily from farms were located on the grounds. Not sure of the stable capacity at Roosevelt, however I'd guess 1,000 to 1,500 which is really a wide range (hardly accurate). Imagine that most of these horses were jogged each day for at least three miles between the hours of 6AM and 11AM with very little of the general public in attendance or even aware of this daily ritual. EVEN THOUGH there was nothing to prevent the GP from walking through the gates between the hour of 6AM and 11AM witnessing the ritual, and without paying a dime for attendance, however any possibility of finding a coffee or sandwich during these non-wagering hours would be next to impossible.

3) Imagine your an amateur photographer and decide to take your expensive camera, along with thousands of dollars worth of accessories to RR and take some photo's while the races are ongoing?
You appear at the turnstile and attempt to pay you admission, even if your fortunate enough to slip the camera past the person collecting the money, the guard just inside the turnstile, will determine that your case contains and a camera and send you right back out the door.

4) Imagine your a professional photographer and desire to shoot some pictures from inside-out while the races are ongoing?
Have you cleared the required policies of your employer-contractor?
Have cleared the required policies of racetrack, regarding patrons, employee's, contractors and other personnel? Each has different protective rights for photo's? Their are no carte-blanche-waivers of their rights simply because they were present at the track when you appeared with you camera.

5) Photographer, writers, the general public and many other people without proper credentials (licenses) are not generally allowed access to the barn areas. Special arrangements may be made by horsemen within for visitors that have previously made private arrangements. However and generally speaking, a person cannot appear at the guard shack and be allowed 1) admission to the barn area; 2) to roam the barn area looking for Buddy Glimour.

In most instance, reporters or photographers were not willing to jump through all these hoops unless they were on the payroll by their employer as part of a team in gathering information for a feature story.

Such a feature story aforementioned would not have taken place while the racing card was ongoing, nor would it have been portrayed from an inside-out view, rather and outside-in view.

There may be some inside-out photo's of Roosevelt Raceway, as well as photo's of inside the buildings, unfortunately, photo's of outside building and many areas of the property are not excessively abundant either on the internet or privately.

Limiting your request to "after" the 1957 Expansion Opening are even more restrictive, because that facility was designed with a stricter security than the earlier structure.

As a general suggestion for inside photo's?
You might focus your inquires (to resources outside this forum) to general luncheons and other non-public (primarily horsemen or staff) meetings at Roosevelt.

[tzipi]

There are people whom could describe to you the physical characteristics of each wall, column or other objects within the raceway during its prime. Unfortunately there is little interest in such details, or at least enough to reward the providers of such details with an appeasement.

You previously provided that you were too young when RR was open to have visited?

I'll provide some scenarios which you may not be aware of:
1) Those times (1960's, 70's and 80's) were different times than today. There were not cell phones, nor even wireless in-house phones, digital cameras or many other innovations of technology that exist today.
Once the live races began, the few public pay phones within the grounds were turned off, so that race results could not be called out (as required by law and to prevent post-race-wagers with bookies.
Nobody could call or page a patron whom was attending the races.

2) during those times most of the horses rather than being shipped in daily from farms were located on the grounds. Not sure of the stable capacity at Roosevelt, however I'd guess 1,000 to 1,500 which is really a wide range (hardly accurate). Imagine that most of these horses were jogged each day for at least three miles between the hours of 6AM and 11AM with very little of the general public in attendance or even aware of this daily ritual. EVEN THOUGH there was nothing to prevent the GP from walking through the gates between the hour of 6AM and 11AM witnessing the ritual, and without paying a dime for attendance, however any possibility of finding a coffee or sandwich during these non-wagering hours would be next to impossible.

3) Imagine your an amateur photographer and decide to take your expensive camera, along with thousands of dollars worth of accessories to RR and take some photo's while the races are ongoing?
You appear at the turnstile and attempt to pay you admission, even if your fortunate enough to slip the camera past the person collecting the money, the guard just inside the turnstile, will determine that your case contains and a camera and send you right back out the door.

4) Imagine your a professional photographer and desire to shoot some pictures from inside-out while the races are ongoing?
Have you cleared the required policies of your employer-contractor?
Have cleared the required policies of racetrack, regarding patrons, employee's, contractors and other personnel? Each has different protective rights for photo's? Their are no carte-blanche-waivers of their rights simply because they were present at the track when you appeared with you camera.

5) Photographer, writers, the general public and many other people without proper credentials (licenses) are not generally allowed access to the barn areas. Special arrangements may be made by horsemen within for visitors that have previously made private arrangements. However and generally speaking, a person cannot appear at the guard shack and be allowed 1) admission to the barn area; 2) to roam the barn area looking for Buddy Glimour.

In most instance, reporters or photographers were not willing to jump through all these hoops unless they were on the payroll by their employer as part of a team in gathering information for a feature story.

Such a feature story aforementioned would not have taken place while the racing card was ongoing, nor would it have been portrayed from an inside-out view, rather and outside-in view.

There may be some inside-out photo's of Roosevelt Raceway, as well as photo's of inside the buildings, unfortunately, photo's of outside building and many areas of the property are not excessively abundant either on the internet or privately.

Limiting your request to "after" the 1957 Expansion Opening are even more restrictive, because that facility was designed with a stricter security than the earlier structure.

As a general suggestion for inside photo's?
You might focus your inquires (to resources outside this forum) to general luncheons and other non-public (primarily horsemen or staff) meetings at Roosevelt.

"You were too young so let me explain. There was no cell-phones or digital cameras back in those days" YEAH RR closed in 1988. You know what year it is today?! What do you think,I'm freaking 5 yrs old. I was born in 1975.

Number one,no kidding there was no cell phones,digital cameras,etc. :bang: Go bring your condescending attitude somewhere else. What is your point off that whole post??
Funny,there are photos of inside Belmont from back in the days and also I just found pictures on the internet from inside RR. Once for a magazine shoot and another off someones webpage.

[wilderness]

What is your point off that whole post??

Access was simply not available.

[tzipi]

Access to what? There are pictures all over the internet from 90's 80's,70's etc of Yankee(which my father has some),Shea,MSG,Nassau Coliseum,etc from fan sites. It's a camera not a bomb. Did you also never bring your own candy in a movie theater! I always took a camera into Nassau Coliseum as a kid in my jacket. Not hard to get cameras into a place,especialy a darn racetrack where tons of people snuck into it anyway according to posts on RR sites.

Tzipi,there was no digital cameras or cell phones when you were going into high school in the 80's :lol: Wow really!

[wilderness]

Access to what? Not hard to get cameras into a place,especialy a darn racetrack where tons of people snuck into it anyway according to posts on RR sites.

The track itself.
I attempted to convey to you why access was not possible with a camera and you found my response to be condescending.

With such an abundant treasure available on other sites, why'd you take the time to inquire here?

Hope your journey is both fruitful and enjoyable.

[LottaKash]

"You were too young so let me explain. There was no cell-phones or digital cameras back in those days" YEAH RR closed in 1988. You know what year it is today?! What do you think,I'm freaking 5 yrs old. I was born in 1975.

Number one,no kidding there was no cell phones,digital cameras,etc. :bang: Go bring your condescending attitude somewhere else. What is your point off that whole post??
Funny,there are photos of inside Belmont from back in the days and also I just found pictures on the internet from inside RR. Once for a magazine shoot and another off someones webpage.

Tzipi, I'm smiling here...I think you misinterrpretted "Don's" post....All I read is, how hard it was to gain access to the RR-facilities for a photograph, and that is why there just aren't that many memorable souveneir-type photo's of RR....

From where I sit Don is a stand up guy, and one can usually count on him to help you with any and all archived Harness memorabilia or statistics, big or small....

Besides, you don't want to mess with " The-Don", he's seen all the "Bruce Lee" flicks....:jump:

relax Tzipi....:cool:

best,

[tzipi]

The track itself.
I attempted to convey to you why access was not possible with a camera and you found my response to be condescending.

With such an abundant treasure available on other sites, why'd you take the time to inquire here?

Hope your journey is both fruitful and enjoyable.

Sorry LottaKash but how was I NOT to take it as condescending? "Tzipi,those times 70's,80's were different times,ok. There was no cell phones or digital cameras,etc back then"
Really,it says in the persons post he read that I remember RR lighting up the sky near my house. The track closed in 1988 so obviously that was 21 years ago,and that's at the earliest. I am old enough to know about phones and cameras obviously then. I just asked if there was picture sites,NOT picture sites of guys peeing or eating hot dogs as they grossly said earlier.

I asked here just incase someone right away knew a great site(public or private) of the RR right off the bat. There are pictures of the grandstand and you can see right inside throught the windows upstairs and down and also pics from right inside. That's all I said. I never said bathrooms or whatever??

http://www.flickr.com/photos/roosevelt_raceway/page4/

[Sea Biscuit]

Sorry LottaKash but how was I NOT to take it as condescending? "Tzipi,those times 70's,80's were different times,ok. There was no cell phones or digital cameras,etc back then"
Really,it says in the persons post he read that I remember RR lighting up the sky near my house. The track closed in 1988 so obviously that was 21 years ago,and that's at the earliest. I am old enough to know about phones and cameras obviously then. I just asked if there was picture sites,NOT picture sites of guys peeing or eating hot dogs as they grossly said earlier.

I asked here just incase someone right away knew a great site(public or private) of the RR right off the bat. There are pictures of the grandstand and you can see right inside throught the windows upstairs and down and also pics from right inside. That's all I said. I never said bathrooms or whatever??

http://www.flickr.com/photos/roosevelt_raceway/page4/


Hey Tzipi: Don is a very respected member of this forum and we all here reply on him most times for information which he always obliges.

You asked for some info about RR and he obliged you the best he could.

If you did'nt like his comment about cell phones and digital cameras, you did'nt have to come here and try to chop his head off for such a simple comment.

Try not to be so nasty in future. If you respect others for their opinions, others will respect you for yours.

Sea Biscuit.

[Trotman]

Tzipi Don's explanation is right on, we raced a stable of horses under John Chapman's shingle in the 60's,70"s and
that track was the most sterile,unfriendly track even for owners. The pictures that show the stands packed was from the days of restrictive classification A,B+,B,C,D where in those days you could get the odd longshot but the race secretary ruled with an iron fist as to where you got to move your horse within the classes therefore people felt it was easier to handicap and cash a ticket. On the other side of the coin the stands we're empty when they went to conditioned races and the end was near.

[Pacingguy]

I remember I was at Roosevelt one night and swept the card, 9 for 9. It even included a $32.00 winner (Lynn Forbes was the name of that horse). I was in heaven that night.

I never won at Roosevelt again after that :)

But Trotman brings up an interesting question about classified versus conditioned. I will start up a poll question for people to comment on.

[LottaKash]

Tzipi Don's explanation is right on, we raced a stable of horses under John Chapman's shingle in the 60's,70"s and
that track was the most sterile,unfriendly track even for owners. The pictures that show the stands packed was from the days of restrictive classification A,B+,B,C,D where in those days you could get the odd longshot but the race secretary ruled with an iron fist as to where you got to move your horse within the classes therefore people felt it was easier to handicap and cash a ticket. On the other side of the coin the stands we're empty when they went to conditioned races and the end was near.

Trotman, I don't think that is "exactly" it....I think it had more to do with "Fan-confidence" (scandals).. Yonkers had fallen on hard times as well, espcially so when the Meadowlands, just across the river, has opened it's doors, and the public took right to it, in fact "ran" to it, "without ABC-racing" to boot (go figure)....I think New Yorkers just got tired of it all, especially the scandal part, and decided not to be fleeced any longer and were ready for something new ....

best,

[tzipi]

Hey Tzipi: Don is a very respected member of this forum and we all here reply on him most times for information which he always obliges.

You asked for some info about RR and he obliged you the best he could.

If you did'nt like his comment about cell phones and digital cameras, you did'nt have to come here and try to chop his head off for such a simple comment.

Try not to be so nasty in future. If you respect others for their opinions, others will respect you for yours.

Sea Biscuit.


Oh Give it up guys! I simply asked does anyone know of sites for pics of RR including maybe some pics of inside building. I THEN get a reply of "what do you want pics olf guys eating hot dogs! A guy pissing in a bathroom!" Real nice huh. "You want pics in inside RR,goto a luncheon" :rolleyes:
Then comes a speech to me about how well lets explain that there was no cell phones or digital cameras back in the 80's,70's" NO kidding! GIVE ME A BREAK!
He knew I was obviously old enough to know that and no,many people sent me links to sites which DO have pics from inside and they did not not make peeing and cell phone and laws,and whatever else comments like inside pics COULD NEVER EXIST. I just posted one of many sites that do have inside pics. Whatever stop defending someone who could've just wrote a nice yes or no answer,but chose to write that crap.

[tzipi]

Tzipi Don's explanation is right on, we raced a stable of horses under John Chapman's shingle in the 60's,70"s and
that track was the most sterile,unfriendly track even for owners. The pictures that show the stands packed was from the days of restrictive classification A,B+,B,C,D where in those days you could get the odd longshot but the race secretary ruled with an iron fist as to where you got to move your horse within the classes therefore people felt it was easier to handicap and cash a ticket. On the other side of the coin the stands we're empty when they went to conditioned races and the end was near.


What are you talking about??? I asked if there was pictures of RR from when it was up and running,from whenever 60,70,80's. That's all! And maybe a memory people had from going there.
Basically, it's Tzipi we do not provide you with picture info and will talk to you like a child because the track was not friendly even for owners :lol: Jesus! if you do not know places for pics,then just say it.
Funny how other people sent me links and pics and told nice stories. All I asked for.
By the way the stands did fine until OTB came along.

[tzipi]

Again all I asked for was pics of RR. Obviously there are plenty from the sites provided that were to me.
Dont need to know about cell phones and digital cameras not being around. That's just dumb,we all know that. No need to peeing picture comments.
Dont need to know about picture wise how the track was very sterile and was not friendly to owners and fans and that the seats were empty even in the 60's and 70's because I have read and heard from peoples accounts that the track was beautiful when they built the "dream track" and it did fine up until OTB and the new owners bought it just to sell off the land.
Just pictures folks and some nice memories that's all.

Oh and yes I know there was no IPhones,Ipods,laptops at the tracks back then too. Thanks ;)
So I think we're done about this discussion on the RR pictures. Have a great day. :ThmbUp:

[Sea Biscuit]

Oh Give it up guys! I simply asked does anyone know of sites for pics of RR including maybe some pics of inside building. I THEN get a reply of "what do you want pics olf guys eating hot dogs! A guy pissing in a bathroom!" Real nice huh. "You want pics in inside RR,goto a luncheon" :rolleyes:
Then comes a speech to me about how well lets explain that there was no cell phones or digital cameras back in the 80's,70's" NO kidding! GIVE ME A BREAK!
He knew I was obviously old enough to know that and no,many people sent me links to sites which DO have pics from inside and they did not not make peeing and cell phone and laws,and whatever else comments like inside pics COULD NEVER EXIST. I just posted one of many sites that do have inside pics. Whatever stop defending someone who could've just wrote a nice yes or no answer,but chose to write that crap.

There were 171 pictures of the Roosevelt era on the site and all this guy saw was a guy peeing in the bathroom.

If you did'nt like any of Don's comments just ignore them. You certainly don't have to nasty about it.

I can see that a screw is loose somewhere, I suggest you tighten it up.

Sea Biscuit.

[Pacingguy]

Trotman, I don't think that is "exactly" it....I think it had more to do with "Fan-confidence" (scandals).. Yonkers had fallen on hard times as well, espcially so when the Meadowlands, just across the river, has opened it's doors, and the public took right to it, in fact "ran" to it, "without ABC-racing" to boot (go figure)....I think New Yorkers just got tired of it all, especially the scandal part, and decided not to be fleeced any longer and were ready for something new ....

best,

Actually, I think it was more customer service issues. Yonkers and Roosevelt pretty much abused their customers 'take it or leave it, we are the only game in town' (such as abusive clerks, long lines, etc.) that once the Meadowlands opened with their emphasis on customer service most people flocked to the Meadowlands where you felt appreciated while you lost your money.

[tzipi]

There were 171 pictures of the Roosevelt era on the site and all this guy saw was a guy peeing in the bathroom.

If you did'nt like any of Don's comments just ignore them. You certainly don't have to nasty about it.

I can see that a screw is loose somewhere, I suggest you tighten it up.

Sea Biscuit.

Oh stop instigating. I just asked if there's sites of pictures of RR and someone write back what do you want a picture of a guy peeing or a old man eating a hot dog. Then tells me hey even though I know you're older there was no cell phones,digital cameras,so why would there be pics,like I'm 5? Yeah I knew that,who would'nt. I.m being rude? Yeah right.
GEE,all those pictures from the Old West on sites I look at. They must've had digital cameras and cell phones back then to have those pictures but no way have pictures of an 1970's or 80's building! :D
If you asked a question and I responded like that to your question,you would be a little, hey what was that all about too. You tighten up. Just end it already. Let's move on.

[tzipi]

Actually, I think it was more customer service issues. Yonkers and Roosevelt pretty much abused their customers 'take it or leave it, we are the only game in town' (such as abusive clerks, long lines, etc.) that once the Meadowlands opened with their emphasis on customer service most people flocked to the Meadowlands where you felt appreciated while you lost your money.

Pacing,do you think the downfall of customer service and whatever else was because of the new owners who bought the track at the end just so they could sell it and did not care about the actual racing or did the downfall start before the new owners?
My question is when did the "Dream Track" make a turn for the worse? I mean reading about it with the their new tote board,tons of lights,cafe's,the clubhouse,grandstand and everything else it says it was probably the most state of the art track around at the time.

[Trotman]

LK you're correct in what you say with regards to the scandal part which came about the time they and Yonkers decided to go with conditioned races on a trial bases. And again you are right with the Meadowlands coming the fans said the hell with em. And Yonkers Empire is going to get nailed with the scandals that are appearing now in the news.

[PaceAdvantage]

I just asked if there's sites of pictures of RRHow many times are you going to say the same thing?

Yes, I read the Harness section too! :lol:

[Pacingguy]

Pacing,do you think the downfall of customer service and whatever else was because of the new owners who bought the track at the end just so they could sell it and did not care about the actual racing or did the downfall start before the new owners?
My question is when did the "Dream Track" make a turn for the worse? I mean reading about it with the their new tote board,tons of lights,cafe's,the clubhouse,grandstand and everything else it says it was probably the most state of the art track around at the time.


The problems started well before the new owners took over. The monopolistic attitude prevelant at the NYC area harness tracks made it very convenient for the customers to give the track management the proverbial finger when the Meadowlands opened. When the new owners came in, the track was already teetering which made it easy for the new owners to topple it so they could tear it down.