Colonel John retired

[WinterTriangle]

to Winstar.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/53414/colonel-john-retired-to-winstar

[the_fat_man]

Nice handling of this horse this year by his connections. :rolleyes:

[cj]

Nice handling of this horse this year by his connections. :rolleyes:

Gomez didn't ride him particularly well in the Classic either.

[slew101]

He was my pick in the Classic, even though I didn't think he'd get the distance. I thought he had a perfect trip. Came right by the cheap speed and had no excuses in the stretch.

I was surprised they never put him back on the turf after he won his only start on it at Del Mar.

Gomez didn't ride him particularly well in the Classic either.

[LottaKash]

I was never too impressed by the "colonel"...........Definitely a nice horse, but perhaps just a 2d tier, of the top tiered horses, imo...

best,

[cj]

He was my pick in the Classic, even though I didn't think he'd get the distance. I thought he had a perfect trip. Came right by the cheap speed and had no excuses in the stretch.

I was surprised they never put him back on the turf after he won his only start on it at Del Mar.

Being up close to a fast pace is not the way to win a 10f race on rubber. He had a clear trip, but not a good trip.

[joanied]

I think he'll be a very popular stallion...I always really liked him...I think some of his races were just bad luck races...for one reason or another. I'm glad they let him race until this year.
Good luck, Col. John:)

[Moyers Pond]

Being up close to a fast pace is not the way to win a 10f race on rubber. He had a clear trip, but not a good trip.

Fast pace? Do you live in the same world as the rest of us or do you just not know how to read a chart? They went 24 the entire way. That is not exactly fast.

[Tom]

Fast pace? Do you live in the same world as the rest of us or do you just not know how to read a chart? They went 24 the entire way. That is not exactly fast.

Classic 121 109

[Charlie D]

If 100 is CJ's Pace par, then 121 would be fast.

Some people should probably educate themselves on some methodology's before commenting or maybe CJ should start his replies with according to MY method.....

[cj]

If 100 is CJ's Pace par, then 121 would be fast.

Some people should probably educate themselves on some methodology's before commenting or maybe CJ should start his replies with according to MY method.....

I have been trying to do that, but I'm also not big into advertising here. I just like to talk horses.

For a G1 on synthetics, par is about 108 for both speed and final time. I mentioned in another thread the spread is tighter on synthetic than dirt, but this is about the equivalent of 6 lengths faster at the pace call.

The 24 flat thing is just silly. You have to look at distance, surface, and track condition before deciding what is fast or not, unless of course you just want to work on general, usually false, assumptions.

[Charlie D]

I have been trying to do that, but I'm also not big into advertising here. I just like to talk horses.

For a G1 on synthetics, par is about 108 for both speed and final time. I mentioned in another thread the spread is tighter on synthetic than dirt, but this is about the equivalent of 6 lengths faster at the pace call.

The 24 flat thing is just silly. You have to look at distance, surface, and track condition before deciding what is fast or not, unless of course you just want to work on general, usually false, assumptions.


You have just educated Moyers Pond CJ with that post, so maybe now he/she will apologize for jumping in with both feet.

[Steve R]

I have been trying to do that, but I'm also not big into advertising here. I just like to talk horses.

For a G1 on synthetics, par is about 108 for both speed and final time. I mentioned in another thread the spread is tighter on synthetic than dirt, but this is about the equivalent of 6 lengths faster at the pace call.

The 24 flat thing is just silly. You have to look at distance, surface, and track condition before deciding what is fast or not, unless of course you just want to work on general, usually false, assumptions.
My adjusted pace line had the 6f split as 1:10.3 which I would consider quite fast for a 10f race.

[the_fat_man]

You have just educated Moyers Pond CJ with that post, so maybe now he/she will apologize for jumping in with both feet.

REally? Let's assume that Moyers Pond has the following assumptions going in:

1) He agrees that Gomez moved too soon on CJ in a) the Derby b) the 2008 Cllassic c) the Wickerr Stakes d) the Pacific Classic but

he doesn't agree that CJ was moved too soon in the 2009 Classic. In fact, he might actually believe that CJ got a very nice inside suckup trip, and that any other decent horse quite possibly wins with it. Of course, MP might also believe that CJ is DISTANcE CHALLENGED, so much so that even a perfect ground saving suckup trip in the 2009 Classic wasn't enough to get him to even hit the board. Runny this horse at 10F against this field is a flat out JOKE. And, maybe MP has voiced this opinion BEFORE the fact.

Now, if he assumes that CJ is correct, he has to assume, as well, that Zenayatta's win was with the benefit of a good trip, one in which the pace horses got all the worst of it. In fact, however, while the winner and 2nd horse came from far back, the body of the race held VERY WELL, as there really weren't many moves in the race, unlike last year's Classic. And, thus, perhaps a better explanation is that the distance challenged and weak horses that were near the front collapsed because they're just not very good.

So, while I respect CJ as the preemminet figure maker in the country, in fact, I'm on record as thinking that he's the BEST PACE HANDICAPPER in the country, in other words, NOBODY understands NUMBERIC pace the way he does, I just don't buy it. And, apparently, MP doesn't either.

Hope that clears some of this up for you.

[Charlie D]

Yes really TFM


You see, Moyers Pond has jumped in when he/she didn't possess the facts of CJ's method, so CJ's post did educate MP and imho he/she should really apologize for the mistake of slating CJ


Thats my opinion anyway, whether MP wants to do that is entirely up to him or her.


I hope that clears it up for you

[Investorater]

It can be stated, that the foals of 2005 were a poor crop, so be that as it may, Colonel John, won the SA Derby-went from 16th to 6th in the KY Derby-wins the Travers by a nose-As a four year old he wins on turf, and in the BC Classic of 2009, he stalks the pace into the stretch, and all lose to the mare.:D No doubt, he'll be remembered as a (good enough) :ThmbUp: competitive horse.

[bisket]

i just think he's a better horse on dirt than poly. he had tactical speed. which on poly isn't a good match. so yes he was distance challenged on poly because a horse has one good run on that surface, and that wasn't his strength. i think his best distance on poly proved to be 1 1/8 mile. now on dirt i felt 1 1/4 mile was definately right in his wheel house. my thoughts are if he was raced on dirt more often he would have proven to be a much better horse.

[WinterTriangle]

I look back on CJ and he is always considered for ITM by bettors, almost every race.

He's got a lot of class, and can always be counted on to run in the big races. He doesn't embarrass himself, and is an honest horse, as they say.

He's also a "looker".

People who have worked with him say he has a super nice disposition, too.

[Show Me the Wire]

He is a plodder. Looks don't win races ask Steve R.

[joanied]

I look back on CJ and he is always considered for ITM by bettors, almost every race.

He's got a lot of class, and can always be counted on to run in the big races. He doesn't embarrass himself, and is an honest horse, as they say.

He's also a "looker".

People who have worked with him say he has a super nice disposition, too.

He is a gorgeous colt...and IMO, he's the total package for mare owners to look at...I love the Tiznow's...his overall pedigree isn't, IMO a stellar one, but solid.
Finished 12 times ITM for 15 starts...i think he'll do well, at least for his first book of mares. His great disposition is also a very good thing.