Post BC NTRA Poll

[Java Gold@TFT]

The NTRA poll. which is not always a good indication of anything si out today following the BC.

http://www.ntra.com/stats_index.aspx

Zenyatta at #1 with 10 first place votes and 181 total
Rachel Alexandra at #2 with 9 first place votes and 176 total

There is something seriously flawed in the voting and I'm not talking about which one deserves HOY more. I'm just looking at the math with their 10-9-8-7 scoring system.

Zenyatta got 10 first place votes and 9 second place votes from the 19 voters which adds up to her 181 total - no problem.

Rachel got 9 first place votes but her total should have been 180 if the other 10 voters put her in second. Big problem though is that her total comes to 176. That means either one clearly deluded voter put her 5th on his ballot or several put her 3rd.

I seriously hope we don't see this kind of mindlessness in the year end ballots. There is no way these two horses aren't 1-2 on every ballot no matter which order you put them in.

[Show Me the Wire]

Anybody that thinks Jackson didn't shoot himself in the foot by boycotting championship day is deluding himself.

[tzipi]

Anybody that thinks Jackson didn't shoot himself in the foot by boycotting championship day is deluding himself.

Nobody shot themselves in the foot. Rachael ran big all year long and needed a rest. Also,why would they ship out to a surface that they do not run on? He did it with CURLIN and look what happened. It's two diffferent surfaces and anyone,including the trainers know that and have said that.
Raven's Pass trainer said he would not have run against Curlin if that BC was on a dirt track. Because it's different surface. So would've they "ducked" or shot themselves in the foot? No. They know dirt and synth are different,like everyone else who knows the sport.

Zen's connections probably would'nt have come here on dirt for BC or they would've had to weigh it. Why? Because it's different. There's a reason they stayed in just one place. Wait and see next year what synth track horses don't show up because they are not good dirt horses and it's on a dirt track.
How many tracks did Zen run on compared to Rachael? Surface's matter.
Zenyatta's connections didn't go anywhere to tackle horses other that the ones at the same place. Not a knock,just a fact.

Show me the Wire,have you worked with horses? Just asking.

[tzipi]

Just to add on:
So basically,ship the horse out AGAIN to another track AGAIN,to a surface she does not run on after all those races she ran as a 3yo so Jackson won't shoot himself in the foot???

Wow is anyone looking out for Rachael! How many tracks and different classes did Zenyatta ship out to?

[WinterTriangle]

I commend both Rachel's and Zenyatta's connections for doing what they felt was right for "their" horse.

Nothing further is necessary for me. :)

What should be rewarded is connections and trainers who do what's best for their horses. Unfortunately, this doesn't always happen, because it's not "financially" rewarding, but there are enough who think it's rewarding in other ways. :ThmbUp:

(if only they could apply social and other pressures to the ones who shouldn't be allowed near a barn, but that's another subject......).

Everything happened as it should, as far as I'm concerned. Now, all you can do is vote on it.......or not.

[Show Me the Wire]

Nobody shot themselves in the foot. Rachael ran big all year long and needed a rest. Also,why would they ship out to a surface that they do not run on? He did it with CURLIN and look what happened. It's two diffferent surfaces and anyone,including the trainers know that and have said that.
Raven's Pass trainer said he would not have run against Curlin if that BC was on a dirt track. Because it's different surface. So would've they "ducked" or shot themselves in the foot? No. They know dirt and synth are different,like everyone else who knows the sport.

Zen's connections probably would'nt have come here on dirt for BC or they would've had to weigh it. Why? Because it's different. There's a reason they stayed in just one place. Wait and see next year what synth track horses don't show up because they are not good dirt horses and it's on a dirt track.
How many tracks did Zen run on compared to Rachael? Surface's matter.
Zenyatta's connections didn't go anywhere to tackle horses other that the ones at the same place. Not a knock,just a fact.

Show me the Wire,have you worked with horses? Just asking.

Come on the Cali (synthetic horse) shipped for the derby and other races and made decent showings. There was no incentive or upside for Zenyatta to ship outside Cali.

Why bring up Raven's Pass again? The converse of the statement is also true. They would have elcted not to face Curlin on the dirt. I do not know what you think you are proving with Raven's Pass. He only supports the fact horses ship or do not ship when it is advantages to do so. That is the gist of what I am saying.

R.A. did not ship because it was to her disadvantage to square off against Zenyatta. The boycott of the surface is just an excuse not to confront Zenyatta.

If Jackson really thought synthetics were bad for his filly, then why did she run on the stuff at keeneland? Read between the lines, as Jerry Bailey did. No Zenyatta at Keeneland.

[PaceAdvantage]

R.A. did not ship because it was to her disadvantage to square off against Zenyatta. The boycott of the surface is just an excuse not to confront Zenyatta.If by all accounts RA was the clear leader for HOY prior to the BC, where in the world is there incentive to go run against Zenyatta?

Last I looked, YOU come to the LEADER...the LEADER does not have to come to YOU.

That was the atmosphere all along...WILL ZENYATTA SHIP EAST TO FACE RA? It was never the other way around....because RA was the LEADER....

[joanied]

I'll say just one thing...about the surfaces...isn't the Keeneland fake stuff way, way, way different than the SA fake stuff??
Every synthetic surface is different...

[Show Me the Wire]

If by all accounts RA was the clear leader for HOY prior to the BC, where in the world is there incentive to go run against Zenyatta?

Last I looked, YOU come to the LEADER...the LEADER does not have to come to YOU.

That was the atmosphere all along...WILL ZENYATTA SHIP EAST TO FACE RA? It was never the other way around....because RA was the LEADER....

Let me clarify. Did not ship to partake in the B.C. championships. The leader should participate in championship racing.

I did not mean to imply R.A. should have shipped to Cali just to race against Zenyatta.

There was no upside or advantage for R.A. to ship either, before the B.C. However, as it is playing out it is turning into a big negative for R.A. that her connections decided to boycott championship day.

[bisket]

I'll say just one thing...about the surfaces...isn't the Keeneland fake stuff way, way, way different than the SA fake stuff??
Every synthetic surface is different...
yup

[tzipi]

Come on the Cali (synthetic horse) shipped for the derby and other races and made decent showings. There was no incentive or upside for Zenyatta to ship outside Cali.

Why bring up Raven's Pass again? The converse of the statement is also true. They would have elcted not to face Curlin on the dirt. I do not know what you think you are proving with Raven's Pass. He only supports the fact horses ship or do not ship when it is advantages to do so. That is the gist of what I am saying.

R.A. did not ship because it was to her disadvantage to square off against Zenyatta. The boycott of the surface is just an excuse not to confront Zenyatta.

If Jackson really thought synthetics were bad for his filly, then why did she run on the stuff at keeneland? Read between the lines, as Jerry Bailey did. No Zenyatta at Keeneland.


Some horses do not run on different surfaces. Why ship RA to yet ANOTHER track to run on a surface she does not run on? How many tracks did Zenyatta ship to? You have no idea if Zenyatta would have been shipped if the BC was at CD or Belmont.

Why would they have been scared of Zenyatta?? At the time she was facing the same old horses race after race and going nowhere to better competition. Her last beyers were in the 90's.

So let's see Zenyatta gets to stay in same exact place once again,race after race with no shipping and RA has to ship another hundreth time?

Get over it,synth has ruined some racing competition,not the horses,not the owners,not the trainers and not the jocks. And numerous synth horses will stay out of next years BC on dirt.

Oh and why do people shout they know exactly who would win NOW but can't name one winner on their cards at their track tomorrow? ;)

[Show Me the Wire]

Some horses do not run on different surfaces. Why ship RA to yet ANOTHER track to run on a surface she does not run on? How many tracks did Zenyatta ship to? You have no idea if Zenyatta would have been shipped if the BC was at CD or Belmont.

Why would they have been scared of Zenyatta?? At the time she was facing the same old horses race after race and going nowhere to better competition. Her last beyers were in the 90's.

So let's see Zenyatta gets to stay in same exact place once again,race after race with no shipping and RA has to ship another hundreth time?

Get over it,synth has ruined some racing competition,not the horses,not the owners,not the trainers and not the jocks. And numerous synth horses will stay out of next years BC on dirt.

Oh and why do people shout they know exactly who would win NOW but can't name one winner on their cards at their track tomorrow? ;)

I am over it.

[Cadillakin]

Get over it,synth has ruined some racing competition,not the horses,not the owners,not the trainers and not the jocks. And numerous synth horses will stay out of next years BC on dirt.

Either you have a short memory.. or you're not that knowledgeable. This year, our four leading three year olds shipped to Kentucky for the Derby.. An ordinary group, it was... Surely, no Shams or Affirmeds.. If you recall, I Want Revenge was the likely favorite before being injured. In his final prep in California before shipping East, he lost by a nose to Pioneer of the Nile in the Santa Anita Derby - over the synthetic. Both horses ran well in the East over the dirt.. with Revenge putting up some outstanding efforts on the dirt, and Pioneer of the Nile running a creditable second in the Kentucky Derby. Our Papa Clem - a horse I put in the "useful - hard trying category" ran well to get fourth in the Derby, and Chocolate Candy - a plodder, ran on for 5th. So, we had 3 of the first 5 in the Derby, and Revenge who didn't run was the likely favorite - In fact, we did better at the Derby than the Eastern dirt runners.. Right? And our horses weren't that good... So, which horses were you referring when you suggested synthetic horses will be dodging the races because they are/were on dirt?

In fact, horses who race over synthetics can run very well on the dirt. Particularly so if they are the progeny of dirt performers.. We see it all the time in California, particularly in the Northern part of the state when the horses shift from Golden Gate and race on the fair circuit - which is all dirt. They transfer their synthetic form consistently..

Furthermore, I've not heard one comment from any of the leading trainers that they aren't shipping for a race because they are looking for a synthetic - rather than a dirt course. Nothing of the sort. So, I think you're just projecting Jess Jackson's or your own psychology onto others in the West.. Nobody here is afraid to run their horses on dirt. In fact, many of the trainers here prefer dirt.. but they race on synthetics, because this is their home.

Get it?

[tzipi]

Either you have a short memory.. or you're not that knowledgeable. This year, our four leading three year olds shipped to Kentucky for the Derby.. An ordinary group, it was... Surely, no Shams or Affirmeds.. If you recall, I Want Revenge was the likely favorite before being injured. In his final prep in California before shipping East, he lost by a nose to Pioneer of the Nile in the Santa Anita Derby - over the synthetic. Both horses ran well in the East over the dirt.. with Revenge putting up some outstanding efforts on the dirt, and Pioneer of the Nile running a creditable second in the Kentucky Derby. Our Papa Clem - a horse I put in the "useful - hard trying category" ran well to get fourth in the Derby, and Chocolate Candy - a plodder, ran on for 5th. So, we had 3 of the first 5 in the Derby, and Revenge who didn't run was the likely favorite - In fact, we did better at the Derby than the Eastern dirt runners.. Right? And our horses weren't that good... So, which horses were you referring when you suggested synthetic horses will be dodging the races because they are/were on dirt?

In fact, horses who race over synthetics can run very well on the dirt. Particularly so if they are the progeny of dirt performers.. We see it all the time in California, particularly in the Northern part of the state when the horses shift from Golden Gate and race on the fair circuit - which is all dirt. They transfer their synthetic form consistently..

Furthermore, I've not heard one comment from any of the leading trainers that they aren't shipping for a race because they are looking for a synthetic - rather than a dirt course. Nothing of the sort. So, I think you're just projecting Jess Jackson's or your own psychology onto others in the West.. Nobody here is afraid to run their horses on dirt. In fact, many of the trainers here prefer dirt.. but they race on synthetics, because this is their home.

Get it?


"Four synth horses went to Derby" Wow great job. OK so good dirt horses went to BC. What was the point? I said there will be some synth horses who will hold back,ones who may not handle dirt as well. Jesus READ! I NEVER said NO SYNTH horses will come. :bang:

[Show Me the Wire]

"Four synth horses went to Derby" Wow great job. OK so good dirt horses went to BC. What was the point? I said there will be some synth horses who will hold back,ones who may not handle dirt as well. Jesus READ! I NEVER said NO SYNTH horses will come. :bang:

Again you are telling people they do not understand your thoughts and they should read better. The common denominator is you, maybe you need to write clearly so people do not need to divine your profound thoughts.

Everyone can't be wrong, can they?

[tzipi]

Again you are telling people they do not understand your thoughts and they should read better. The common denominator is you, maybe you need to write clearly so people do not need to divine your profound thoughts.

Everyone can't be wrong, can they?


Well I just said in my post I'm sure some synth horses will not come to a dirt BC. I NEVER said every synth horses will not? That's just insane. That's why I defended myself. Oh well.