Should Zenyatta's 2008 record be a factor for 2009 HOY?

[Stillriledup]

People keep screaming 14 for 14, but she's really only 5 for 5 in 2009 while Rachel is 8 for 8.

I think, i don't know for sure, maybe you can correct me on this, that a HOY year award only is for accomplishments within a specific calendar year, right?

I know 14 for 14 is stupendous, but seriously, one horse is 5 for 5 and one horse is 8 for 8. I'm no math major, but i think 8 is greater than 5.

People who are championing for Z to be HOY are trying to force her lifetime record into the discussion as one of the points they are trying to make to strengthen their case. I'm not sure that's the way it works.

[SoCalCircuit]

It shouldn't be a factor, but its not like voters can erase their 2008 memories. It will inevitably be in their minds while voting and, even subconsciously, will play into the results

[Murph]

People keep screaming 14 for 14, but she's really only 5 for 5 in 2009 while Rachel is 8 for 8.

I think, i don't know for sure, maybe you can correct me on this, that a HOY year award only is for accomplishments within a specific calendar year, right?

I know 14 for 14 is stupendous, but seriously, one horse is 5 for 5 and one horse is 8 for 8. I'm no math major, but i think 8 is greater than 5.

People who are championing for Z to be HOY are trying to force her lifetime record into the discussion as one of the points they are trying to make to strengthen their case. I'm not sure that's the way it works.There's no denying she won 14 in a row.

[Stillriledup]

There's no denying she won 14 in a row.

You didn't answer my question.

[budman]

Didn't Zen only race 5 times this year, all in So. Ca.? I believe Rachel ran at several different tracks, some against the boys, and in my opinion the HOY should go to her. But I'm not knocking Zen as she is awesome.

Budman

[Stillriledup]

Didn't Zen only race 5 times this year, all in So. Ca.? I believe Rachel ran at several different tracks, some against the boys, and in my opinion the HOY should go to her. But I'm not knocking Zen as she is awesome.

Budman


1 for 1 with smart posts. Keep up the good work!

[Murph]

You didn't answer my question.From my living room, this is one of the most memorable performances of the BC Classic in the past 5 years. The whole thing has played out like a Hollywood movie.

Zenyata made a believer out of me yesterday. It is certainly the best horseracing I've seen on television since the 07 Triple Crown.

[ghostyapper]

Not her record but the fact that she is a defending champion. Just like rachel will have that edge next year when she starts her campaign.

[Stillriledup]

Where was Zenyatta from Jan 1, 2009 to May 23, 2009?

[Rackon]

From my living room, this is one of the most memorable performances of the BC Classic in the past 5 years. The whole thing has played out like a Hollywood movie.

Zenyata made a believer out of me yesterday. It is certainly the best horseracing I've seen on television since the 07 Triple Crown.

Heartily agree.

It's not just the 14 wins (although that's hard enough to aacomplish at any level - Life Is Sweet isn't exactly chopped liver and DAMMIT Z HAS won decisively on dirt). I could care less she only had 5 starts this season. Yes, I understand how many folks look at her 09 race schedule and think it a less impressive campaign than RA's.

BUT...

It's HOW the big Z won the big one - under tremendous pressure and with a lot of things going against her yesterday - that wowed me. Look what she overcame: delay at the start with the reload; being caught flat footed out of the gate and coming out on the wrong lead; being way behind against a very deep field without a fast pace to close into; having to thread through horses, veer, take back, restart, etc in the stretch run...at the 3/16ths I wasn't sure she could get it done. And then she makes it look easy. It was easy, if you're a freak.

My money was on Gio Ponti but Zenyatta made me cry. That was a great performance, against top males from two continents. It's too bad the weather was rainy at Churchill this spring since everyone seems to have forgotten that Zenyatta can be as devastating on dirt as she is on Pro-Ride.

BTW I also think RA is a freak - I love her too. I can't remember a time since I've been going to the races (50 years) when the two best race horses in the US were mares/fillies and they were both monsters. But the way Z won the Classic was an incredible performance...and sometimes a single performance can be enough.

[Rackon]

Where was Zenyatta from Jan 1, 2009 to May 23, 2009?

California and Kentucky.

[FenceBored]

Not her record but the fact that she is a defending champion. Just like rachel will have that edge next year when she starts her campaign.

Actually, that should set the bar HIGHER, not LOWER.

[statik27]

Where was Zenyatta from Jan 1, 2009 to May 23, 2009?

RA is a 3yo and 3yo championships are decided in the spring and summer. Zenyatta in an older horse and those championships are decided in the summer and fall. Besides, what race did RA show up in that Zenyatta would have been eligable fore between Jan 1st and May 23rd? Give it a rest.

On why Zenyatta's record matters? Its the fact that many horses can reel off 5 wins or 6 wins in a row or even more in a single season. But what Zenyatta accomplished this year was staying sound and happy for 2 full seasons, 2 years of being at the top of her game. Good enough for 14 wins in a row. Despite the fact that her running style isn't conducive to doing so. She carried and gave weight to her peers, up to 129lbs. She never saw any kind of legitimate pace until yesterday. And she still won.

There's also the fact that her connections, despite reaching what many felt was the pinnacle possible for a mare in this day and age, brought this mare back for another season as a five year old. Things like that should be rewarded in our beleaguered sport. Thats why this mare should be horse of the year.

[Stillriledup]

RA is a 3yo and 3yo championships are decided in the spring and summer. Zenyatta in an older horse and those championships are decided in the summer and fall. Besides, what race did RA show up in that Zenyatta would have been eligable fore between Jan 1st and May 23rd? Give it a rest.

On why Zenyatta's record matters? Its the fact that many horses can reel off 5 wins or 6 wins in a row or even more in a single season. But what Zenyatta accomplished this year was staying sound and happy for 2 full seasons, 2 years of being at the top of her game. Good enough for 14 wins in a row. Despite the fact that her running style isn't conducive to doing so. She carried and gave weight to her peers, up to 129lbs. She never saw any kind of legitimate pace until yesterday. And she still won.

There's also the fact that her connections, despite reaching what many felt was the pinnacle possible for a mare in this day and age, brought this mare back for another season as a five year old. Things like that should be rewarded in our beleaguered sport. Thats why this mare should be horse of the year.


I just think that 8 is greater than 5. When two horses do extremely great things and one horse does it 8 times and another horse does it 5, you have to give the nod to the superstar who showed up and did it more times.

Its obvious that 8 is greater than 5, which means that if you want to make the case that Z deserves HOY, than you have to lay out a case why Z's 5 is better than RA's 8.

So far, no one has laid out that case to my knowledge.

[PaceAdvantage]

It's HOW the big Z won the big one - under tremendous pressure and with a lot of things going against her yesterday - that wowed me. Look what she overcame: delay at the start with the reload; being caught flat footed out of the gate and coming out on the wrong lead; being way behind against a very deep field without a fast pace to close into; having to thread through horses, veer, take back, restart, etc in the stretch run...at the 3/16ths I wasn't sure she could get it done. And then she makes it look easy. It was easy, if you're a freak. Really...how different was this race from all of her others? She always comes from last or nearly last...she's always dealing with traffic, usually going wide in the process...being caught flat footed or coming out on the wrong lead is not a terrible problem for a horse who ALWAYS races far back....if she were a front-runner and broke like that, then yes, it would have been a tremendous disadvantage...

And the pace was exactly what she is used to running against...nothing out of the ordinary there, unless there was some extreme variant in play that I am unaware of...

[BirdstoneFTW]

If the award is going to be given out based partially on things that happened prior to 2009, then the award loses its meaning.

[Watcher]

It would be a travesty for Zenyatta to not receive HOY, especially if that was her last time on the track.

Yes, Rachel put a spectacular campaign together, racing against the guys on multiple occasions. However, for Zenyatta to have gone 14-14 lifetime, been brought back to run through her 5 year old campaign, AND to close out her career running against males, in one of the most prestigious races in the world, at a distance she had never covered, you simply can't bypass her with regards to HOY.

[PaceAdvantage]

I think that not only should Zenyatta's record from 2008 be a factor for 2009 HOY, but to really make things interesting, we should allow Curlin's 2008 record to be a factor as well and put him on the ballot again....hell...why not bring back Cigar as well?

[Watcher]

If it's solely based on past campaigns, yes...

However, you must factor in history when making a decision with regards to a horse that's deserving in the current year. If you're undefeated lifetime, it puts added pressure, if not merely for the fact that competitors start gunning for you.

If you don't believe that, ask any undefeated NCAA football team. You have to bring your best game every time, because that's what you'll receive from your competitors.

[BirdstoneFTW]

It would be a travesty for Zenyatta to not receive HOY, especially if that was her last time on the track.

Yes, Rachel put a spectacular campaign together, racing against the guys on multiple occasions. However, for Zenyatta to have gone 14-14 lifetime, been brought back to run through her 5 year old campaign, AND to close out her career running against males, in one of the most prestigious races in the world, at a distance she had never covered, you simply can't bypass her with regards to HOY.

While I totally feel that RA deserves HOTY over Zenyatta, the real travesty is that the Horse Racing Industry makes people choose a side instead of just making both HOTY. Unfortunately one side is going to get shafted.

[BirdstoneFTW]

If it's solely based on past campaigns, yes...

However, you must factor in history when making a decision with regards to a horse that's deserving in the current year. If you're undefeated lifetime, it puts added pressure, if not merely for the fact that competitors start gunning for you.

If you don't believe that, ask any undefeated NCAA football team. You have to bring your best game every time, because that's what you'll receive from your competitors.

I know the point that you are trying to get at, but that undefeated record is only there for that given year and it doesn't carry over to the next year like it does in a horse's lifetime record.