Why Zenyatta is undefeated?

[MickJ26]

I think too much is being made about Zenyatta's undefeated career record. Zenyatta's awesome resume was achieved under ideal circumstances. Other than of course being a magnificent equine athlete, genetically blessed and having the heart of a lion, she had these advantages:
1-Jerry Moss is fabulously wealthy and had the wherewithall to let her develop at her own pace. Other owners might've rushed her to the track before she was ready in order to recoup some of their investment. We don't know if she would've run at 2 or early in her 3yo year what she would've done. Kudos to Jerry Moss.
2-The sad and untimely death of Nashoba's Key, who was a beast, which ironically also led to her demise. I'm sure Zenyatta and Nashoba's Key would've locked horns at least once or twice, and probably traded decisions. What a terrific race it would be seeing those two go at it.
3-With the BC in her own backyard for two years, she didn't have to leave her comfort zone.
4-Even with the best thoroughbred west of the Mississippi, Moss still chose to run her back in the exact same races she won the year before. Zenyatta obviously would've won the Pacific Classic and the Goodwood, had she run.
Zenyatta definitely deserves her place in history
I don't think her undefeated career record should be considered in the HOY voting.
Just throwing it out there.
If this has already been discussed, I apologise.

[Stillriledup]

It hasn't ever been discussed yet, so thanks for starting this up.

Good points about her. I think people get all giddy when they see 14 for 14 but let me ask you, if Usain Bolt raced vs Me in the 100 yard dash, he would be undefeated also, so i think wins aren't as important as how you got them done and who you beat along the way.

My points, that i brought forth in another thread was that Zenyatta, being a one move closer, had the ability to pick her path. The tracks she's raced on are, for the most part, favoring closers in 2 turn races, so she's had track profile in her favor in all her career starts. She also was able to start her run when her jockey needed to ask her for her run (where as Rachel has dueled hard early in some of her races and still held on to win, Z never had to duel and hold off closers before)

Another thing is that synthetics haven't been around all that long, so any horse who masters the surface has a huge edge over mostly horses who A) can't handle the surface at all and B) horses who aren't their best on it
Zenyatta's running style, choice of region, small fields and closing biases in route races on synthetic all have been somewhat of a factor in her winning as many races as she's won.

When you are comparing horses who have reeled off many wins in a row, you can't just look at W's because they both have many of them, you have to look at the circumstances surrounding the wins in order to put them into context.

Is Zenyatta the Mini Peppers Pride? Peppers Pride was criticized for racing Glorified claimers in New Mexico while never venturing out against open company. She was far superior to anything down there and really never had to break a sweat to reel off many wins in a row.

Why was Peppers Pride not HOY? Because of her circumstances, that's why.

I know people want to say that Zenyatta beat the best yesterday, but if you've never ventured out of your home state even one time and carried your surface with you, than its hard to get the nod up over a horse who went around and faced adversity and proved just as great.

This will come down to the voters and who they want to punish. Do they want to punish the Mosses for not sending Zenyatta to Saratoga to race vs Rachel on a real dirt track when she had the chance? Will they punish the Mosses for not running her at Churchill when she was physically in the building and the track was rated (i believe) fast for a race she was entered in? Do they punish the Mosses for only racing Zenyatta one time vs the boys when she would have won the Pacific Classic in a cakewalk (ironically Mike Smith won the Pac Classic on an inferior horse with the same sweeping wide style that Zenyatta would have employed) or are they going to punish Jess Jackson for skipping the Breeders Cup?

If they punish Jackson and give Z horse of the year, than they are basically saying that if you don't win a breeders cup race, you can't win HOY and that the Triple Crown events aren't as significant as they are made out to be.

The 64 dollar question is which owner gets punished for the way he campaigned his superstar. That is the ultimate question.

I would have to imagine that there are more east coast based voters for HOY than west coast voters, so that would give a HUGE edge to Rachel.

Time will tell.

[pandy]

Are you kidding, your post doesn't make any sense, especially after yesterday's win. If it was easy to go undefeated it would be done more often. 14 for 14 with 7 or 8 Grade 1 wins, a win on dirt in the Apple Blossom at Oaklawn, and a win against the best field of horses to race in North America this year, incredible.

[statik27]

It hasn't ever been discussed yet, so thanks for starting this up.

Good points about her. I think people get all giddy when they see 14 for 14 but let me ask you, if Usain Bolt raced vs Me in the 100 yard dash, he would be undefeated also, so i think wins aren't as important as how you got them done and who you beat along the way.

My points, that i brought forth in another thread was that Zenyatta, being a one move closer, had the ability to pick her path. The tracks she's raced on are, for the most part, favoring closers in 2 turn races, so she's had track profile in her favor in all her career starts. She also was able to start her run when her jockey needed to ask her for her run (where as Rachel has dueled hard early in some of her races and still held on to win, Z never had to duel and hold off closers before)

Another thing is that synthetics haven't been around all that long, so any horse who masters the surface has a huge edge over mostly horses who A) can't handle the surface at all and B) horses who aren't their best on it
Zenyatta's running style, choice of region, small fields and closing biases in route races on synthetic all have been somewhat of a factor in her winning as many races as she's won.

When you are comparing horses who have reeled off many wins in a row, you can't just look at W's because they both have many of them, you have to look at the circumstances surrounding the wins in order to put them into context.

Is Zenyatta the Mini Peppers Pride? Peppers Pride was criticized for racing Glorified claimers in New Mexico while never venturing out against open company. She was far superior to anything down there and really never had to break a sweat to reel off many wins in a row.

Why was Peppers Pride not HOY? Because of her circumstances, that's why.

I know people want to say that Zenyatta beat the best yesterday, but if you've never ventured out of your home state even one time and carried your surface with you, than its hard to get the nod up over a horse who went around and faced adversity and proved just as great.

This will come down to the voters and who they want to punish. Do they want to punish the Mosses for not sending Zenyatta to Saratoga to race vs Rachel on a real dirt track when she had the chance? Will they punish the Mosses for not running her at Churchill when she was physically in the building and the track was rated (i believe) fast for a race she was entered in? Do they punish the Mosses for only racing Zenyatta one time vs the boys when she would have won the Pacific Classic in a cakewalk (ironically Mike Smith won the Pac Classic on an inferior horse with the same sweeping wide style that Zenyatta would have employed) or are they going to punish Jess Jackson for skipping the Breeders Cup?

If they punish Jackson and give Z horse of the year, than they are basically saying that if you don't win a breeders cup race, you can't win HOY and that the Triple Crown events aren't as significant as they are made out to be.

The 64 dollar question is which owner gets punished for the way he campaigned his superstar. That is the ultimate question.

I would have to imagine that there are more east coast based voters for HOY than west coast voters, so that would give a HUGE edge to Rachel.

Time will tell.

I'm not even sure what to say about this thread. First as you so wrongly pointed out, Zenyatta took her game to oaklawn last year and drilled the reigning Champion mare.

Second, the california form seems to have held up just fine...see the feature BC run on Friday.

Thirdly, has it not occurred to anyone that maybe its not the track thats beating these dirt shippers, maybe they just aren't as strong as they look?

Fourthly, why would Zenyatta's connections waste time and money to ship cross country to prep for a race that was going to be run in her hometown? Of course she didn't run at Saratoga, the year end goal was the Breeders Cup and she could run out of her own barn to win it.

Fifthly (is that a word? It should be anyway) comparing Zenyatta to Pepper's Pride is pure snark and would be laughable, if your post wasn't so serious. Lets face it, after Life is Sweet won on friday, Sheriffs looked like the cat that ate the canary. He knew he was bringing a gun to a knife fight on saturday.

[kenwoodallpromos]

WOW! Just having a debate as to which FEMALE TBred will win HOY is exciting when there are 2 great ones in the same year!!

[MickJ26]

I'm not trying to diminish Zenyatta's accomplishments. Zenyatta is a truly special racehorse. My point is she'd be just as special whether she was 14-14 or 12-1-1 or 11-3. Her undefeated record was carefully engineered up to the BC Classic. This has nothing to do with HOY or who deserves it more.

[how cliche]

I think in this instance it behooves us not to look at historical achievements, but to look at the current ones.
I encourage you to think about the stage on which the comparative accomplishments were achieved & how they impacted the consciousness of people outside the millieu of hardcore horse racing afficionados. The Breeders' Cup Classic is the second grandest stage on the racing calendar behind only The Kentucky Derby. Aside from The Preakness, Rachel Alexandra's wins this year were posted in races that only hardcore followers of the game really care about. Today's feature at Monmouth & Saratoga is what John Q Public thinks about The Haskell & The Whitney.

I personally like Rachel Alexandra more. I find her electrifying & spectacular. That being said, I'm thinking Zenyatta won Horse Of The Year yesterday, because of the stage on which she prevailed.

[Rackon]

If Zenyatta wins HOY, it won't be because she retired undefeated in 14 starts.

The undefeated record is a factor. But the main reason will be because of the way she decisively beat a top field males from two continents in one of racing's premier events on a world stage, overcoming adversity in that race and writing herself into the history books. And especially overcmoing the adversity - that is the mark of a great race horse. And people like to think they're voting for a great one when casting their ballots.

Either horse is worthy of being HOY IMO. I love 'em both, and they're both freaks. But I'm getting annoyed at folks not giving the Zenyatta the credit she deserves. Or giving one mare credit at the other's expense. Fair is fair.