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windoor
11-08-2009, 02:30 PM
Hello all, newbie here, though I’ve been lurking for a while.

A short bio and a couple of questions. Sorry for the long post, didn’t mean to write a book.

I’ve been in and out of the game for about forty years now, thanks to my dad who introduced it to me in the early seventies. (Yes, many times I have regretted ever getting involved) He was mostly a system player, based on a flat win bet and that’s where I’m at today. I must say I have never known him to make a profit over the long haul. He has tried many handicapping systems, (as have I) and while all would get the occasional winner, none would return a profit over time. My dad is gone now, and I really miss not having anyone to talk to about a sport I’ve grown to love.

I learned early on that if one were going to make a consistent profit at horse racing, you would have to develop your own method. After years of research and trial and error, I can finally say I’m having my first winning year, regardless of what happens in the next couple of months. It was a long time coming and only delayed because I was a very slow learner when it came to patience (wait for the right opportunity) and discipline. (No side bets on exotics or horses that did not quite qualify, but were all so tempting with long odds)

To date I have been looking at just one track, and feel I can now move on to others. The question is, can I succeed at other tracks. Optimally, I would want to look at the last two years of any track I am considering. Handicap all playable races and see what the hit rate and average odd would be. Handicap is the wrong word, as I no longer do any real handicapping. I have developed a series of spot plays that is dependent on the type of race and distance. I no longer care about pace or speed numbers or (shocker) even the post time odds. I’m only interested in the win percent and average odd over every one hundred playable races. I know there can be some improvement it this area, but I am content with what I have.

I’m hesitant to even post this, as from what I have been reading here, it does seem to be an outrageous claim, but for last three months at my home track, my win percent is 47.74% at an average odd of 5.71. Longest run out is eight. I keep running totals in Excel. These are all spot plays and I am lucky to find three, sometimes four plays a day. The average odd would need to be adjusted down a half point or so, as sometimes I am required to play more that one horse to win. Another hard lesson for me.

The big question.

Is there a software program out there that would let me set up a user-defined query on a database of past performance and results for any given track to crunch the numbers for me?

I envision a form (I use post time daily) with every bit of information listed as a separate cell that can be manipulated with Boolean operators and filters. For instance, a subset that included only route races 7.5 to 9 furlongs for filly and mares at 3 years old. Maybe some drop down menus for the most common filters like distance with multi choice (All, Sprints, Routes, or user defined range). Type of surface. (All, dirt, turf, synthetic, or user defined) Class levels (claiming, allowance, handicap, stakes, or user-defined range. Especially claiming races as I treat a 5K claimer much different that one for 25K)

Basically, what I want is a system checker. Not a black box that picks winners, (though I suppose it could if set up correctly) but a program that is capable of giving some real answers as to whether or not what I’m doing can work at other tracks. Or what would happen if I wheeled my top contender (top and bottom) in and exacta when odds are over 10 to 1? Something I just started to work on, but I would need to know what the win and place percent is for these types of horses, and the average pay out of the exacta. I have never tracked my place percent, but once went 17 out 24 a few years ago. A bank breaker.

If I only wanted to play gray horses out of the post position number five, Maiden claiming for fillies and Mares at route races. How may plays would I have? How many win? What is the average odd? What is the ROI for a $2 bet? No, that’s not what I do, but the flexibility of doing something like it, is what I would like,

I am very much interested in the way the last five races were run, and at what distance and class level. I am also very interested in each call of the last five races as in position on the track and beaten lengths. These are key to me for finding contenders.

Is there anything like this out there? Or do I need to download the last two years of past performances and result charts for the track I am interested in and do it the old fashion way, one at a time. Very time consuming and if I want to change a rule, I have to start over and do it again and again. There must be an easier way.

It seems to me, anyone who is considering taking a bank (regardless of size) to play the races, would be well advised to see how well it would have worked over the last two years at any given track. It could very well save you a bundle and make the investment of such a program worth the cost. How much is it worth to me? I don’t think I could afford the true value, but maybe something is already out there that would come close.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Regards,

Windoor

Light
11-08-2009, 05:48 PM
for last three months at my home track, my win percent is 47.74% at an average odd of 5.71. Longest run out is eight. I keep running totals in Excel. These are all spot plays and I am lucky to find three, sometimes four plays a day.

Do realize what you are saying? That ROI is over 200%.You dont need other tracks with a 200+% ROI. You need another bank account.You can easily amass a fortune in 6 months and practically retire with that kind of return. The mere mortals on this board,and horseplayers in general, aspire for a 10% ROI,with 20% being extremely good.

But to answer your question as far as software doing all this query work for you,I know Access can answer all those questions you asked easier and quicker than Excel. You're probably better off using Microsoft Access for quering system analysis. The guys at HTR seem to use Access quite a bit to query the same kinds of questions you have. You might want to check over there. If you are not in a hurry,gradually build up a database in Excel and in a few months you'll have all the data you need for filtering,sorting or quering for another track. I did just did that this last summer with Excel instead of spending even more time learning how to do it with other software I'm not that familiar with.

windoor
11-08-2009, 08:04 PM
Thank-you for the reply Light.

The funny thing is, some years ago I had Access installed on my pc with the thought of doing just that. I have very little experience with the program and tried a crash course on learning enough to do what was needed. I am a very slow learner with such things and found it frustrating to say the least.

The only data I could find at the time was comma delimited files and I could not figure out how to import them correctly. I finally gave up, made up and excel spread sheet with very simple filters and math equations to keep track of Dates, track, race number, horse number etc, along with some running numbers for total of plays, win percent, average odd and net profit.

Over the last three months I have a net profit of $6,228.with a $20 win bet. More than I won over the first three quarters of the year. With the last 54 race days, I had 154 plays and 76 wins. About half of the races required that I play two horses (sometimes more) to win. This is why the win percent is so high over a given number of races, (something I learned to do just recently) but with the odds I’m getting, I can afford to take an odd point away if needed. Looking at the total number of bets the win percent would look more like 32%. A more reasonable number, but at a slightly better odd. I’d rather have the nearly 17% increase in win percent by playing a second strong contender.

How many times have you seen your second choice, or maybe a third choice win a race at very good odds? For me it was way too many times. I had to look for a better way. It took a 50 to 1 shot that I seriously considered but did not play (for the other horse looked slightly better at 4 to 1) when I finally said enough is enough. That was a turning point, and made all difference in world for what I’m looking at.

Are there data files (forms and results) available for Microsoft Access? Maybe its time to revisit the application and learn how to use it.


Regards,

Windoor

Donnie
11-08-2009, 08:58 PM
Windoor--
If you are serious about learning Access you can start here:

http://www.homebased2.com/km/htr.htm

Although the manual down the page talks about data with HTR, the importing of the data can be applied to just about any file format (excel, csv text files, etc.).
Ken Massa has added to HTR2 a newer version of his modeler program called Robot2. It very much so lets you pick the criteria and then run the data against past races and it tells you where and how the angle is doing. I don't know if it would have all the criteria you put into your personal spot plays, but if it does, then the whole process can be automated with no database knowledge.

Best of luck!!

Rwahi1
11-09-2009, 05:32 AM
I think you are looking for some thing like this;

http://www.whatifanalyzer.com/WIAhome.html

DJofSD
11-09-2009, 08:34 AM
Welcome aboard.

Look at JCapper. Jeff Platt is the author and posts on this board. His web site for JCapper is www.jcapper.com and he is a sponser of this forum.

InControlX
11-09-2009, 06:43 PM
Windoor,

Welcome aboard. Your success is impressive and I hope it continues. Just a few tips about private data base maintenance...

It's tough to get around paying the freight for your raw data and I don't think it's worth trying. However, if your system can stand $900/year in subscription fees (and it appears it can), you can get the unrestricted (all) comma delimited charts or PPs (you don't need both, too much overlap). From these you can generate your own database over time, or buy the old year files to hit the pavement running. It's not tough to import comma delimited files into any number of program systems but I prefer Visual Basic because it lets you set up custom database queries with iterative optimization easier than the spreadsheet-based systems.

In the meanwhile don't get discouraged if you encounter a bust streak (they always crop up), but keep plugging because a boom streak will come too!

ICX

green80
11-09-2009, 07:20 PM
Why would you want to expand a system that hits over 47% @ 5/1 odds?
Relax, collect your winnings and go to the bank. You will be able to retire very soon. You have the key to the mint.

windoor
11-10-2009, 05:14 PM
Thank you all for the advice, links, and kind words.

On one of sites listed I see that I can download 50K races for about $1000.00. This seems very reasonable to me, if they are of the most recent races and cover most of the North American tracks I would be interested in.

A subscription is about $120.00 a month to keep it current, if I understand it correctly. Not sure I would need that unless it could replace the races I’m downloading now. I have much to learn about the program they offer before making a buying decision. I have started an Access for beginners course and it looks like it will be quite a while before I can make use of it for this.

As far as money management goes.
I look at monthly and quarterly reports to see how I’m doing. My bank size will always carry me through a three-month cycle. (The bet stays the same until its time to start the next quarter) It’s way to easy to get a big head when your doing well and place bets that are not fully supported with the proper bank.

I chop the year up into quarters (as do most business’s) and I am always prepared for the inevitable losing streak. If by the end of December these numbers are still holding up and I have $8000, I will Double the bet and see what happens.

I started with a $4000 bank, or two 100-bet banks. Seem excessive for just a $20 win bet, but history has taught me to treat it like a business with plenty of capitol if things turn sour for a time. If I lose 50 of the first bank at any time, I re-evaluate what I’m doing, just to make sure I have been following the rules as I should. It’s easy to get cocky when things are going well. If I have a losing quarter (three months), then I stop completely and re-run everything and tweak as needed. This is very time consuming.

Of course I would not divulge exactly what I’m doing, but if anyone is interested I could explain the path I took to get here. Just some simple concepts, maybe you already know, but maybe not? I certainly would not like to come off as some pompous ass, and from what I’ve been reading here on the forums, most everyone here is light years ahead of me on current technology and betting strategies. I’m still mostly very old school with pen and paper methods, with the exception of the spreadsheet I use, which really just keeps records for me along with some simple filters, that looks at different types of races and win percent.


Regards,

Windoor

Inglewood Flamingo
01-20-2010, 04:33 PM
Windoor, I for one would love to learn more about the path you are on.

inglewoodflamingo@yahoo.com

acorn54
01-20-2010, 06:05 PM
i don't understand why you are only betting 20 dollars with the returns and win pct you are getting
you are missing a golden opportunity.
anyway if you are doing what you are doing i don't see the sense of messing around with software for any reason.

ranchwest
01-20-2010, 09:31 PM
Most databases can be queried rather thoroughly, some more easily than others. The main thing is to be willing to aggressively attack research.

windoor
01-21-2010, 07:48 PM
i don't understand why you are only betting 20 dollars with the returns and win pct you are getting
you are missing a golden opportunity.
anyway if you are doing what you are doing i don't see the sense of messing around with software for any reason.


I have since doubled the bet to $40, as I now have $8000 in the bank, even with a rather disappointing December. January started a new quarter and I'm assured to still be here and the end of the quarter, barring a complete breakdown and disaster.

I know it seems an excessive amount, but I have experienced some long losing streaks in the past, and the best way I have found to deal with them is to put up a 100 bet bank from the beginning. I consider it spent and gone until one hundred playable races have past. Never any pressure when you go 2 for 20 and those two win at short odds.

I have learned the hard way to be cautious and to be patient. I will need a couple of very good years to recouped all loss's from when I started. Not sure if can really put a accurate number on it, but I would guess somewhere around 150K over a forty year period. The sad part is, I had a good method for a consistent profit quite some years ago, but I lacked the discipline and patience needed to show a profit. I was too much of gambler back then.

Regards,

Windoor