FAKE PLASTIC AND RECYCLED TIRES RACING

[exiles]

The powers that be have succeeded in turning a skill game into a lottery.

fake plastic payoffs

$14 #16 $ 8 $18 $52 $63 $44 $7

turf payoffs

$21 $6 $6 $8 $4 $3,80

[PaceAdvantage]

I kind of enjoy full fields with big payouts...and I hate fake dirt...there, I've said it!

[bigmack]

If you struggle making lettuce with the surface you ought not to play it.

Some people are and the the odds of winning any race today was no worse than 1 in 16. Lotto offers 1 in several million. Grab another analogy and stand in line to whine about synthetic.

By the way, isn't the 'fake plastic' in your title an oxymoron?

[Charlie D]

$14 #16 $ 8 $18 $52 $63 $44 $7


Nice variery of returns and that is what a bettor should want to see

[exiles]

If you struggle making lettuce with the surface you ought not to play it.

Some people are and the the odds of winning any race today was no worse than 1 in 16. Lotto offers 1 in several million. Grab another analogy and stand in line to whine about synthetic.

By the way, isn't the 'fake plastic' in your title an oxymoron?

I had a very good day today betting good old dirt and turf races on AQU and FG, i also bet on the BC turf races, i leave the FAKE PLASTIC races to Lottery and Lotto players.

[Charlie D]

Are there not Dirt races that have similar $2.00 returns to those returned today???

[exiles]

[QUOTE=Charlie D]Are there not Dirt races that have similar $2.00 returns to those returned today???[/QUOTE

Of course there are, every day of the week , but the difference on dirt is that there are time proven angles that u can use to come up w/ such winners, what angle r u going to use on the fake plastic,( lets bet the cheapest horse in the race ala the BC DIRT MILE) breeding info could be useful i guess but we need more time proven statistics.

[JustRalph]

I had a very good day today betting good old dirt and turf races on AQU and FG, i also bet on the BC turf races, i leave the FAKE PLASTIC races to Lottery and Lotto players.


I wish I had been that smart :lol:

[Charlie D]

Can you share the angles you are using to find 30, 40, 50 buck winners on Dirt please as i'm sure plenty of members of PA would be interested.

[exiles]

Can you share the angles you are using to find 30, 40, 50 buck winners on Dirt please as i'm sure plenty of members of PA would be interested.

I will when i retire from the racing game.

[bigmack]

Ii leave the FAKE PLASTIC races to Lottery and Lotto players.
Catchy. I don't believe I've heard or read 'fake plastic'.

Quite the slam of anyone that plays SA, DMR, HOL, CD, AP, WOO, KEE. They're lotto players huh? If it don't work for you, slam anyone else.

I get it. Sour grapes. Nothing more.

[Charlie D]

I've lost at this years BC despite Betting Conduit ro win, Cost of Freedom e/way, Mis McCall to win, Free Flying Soul e/way

(e/way = win with 2nd or 3rd)

I'll be back next year whether it's on Dirt, on Pro- Ride because this Great Game offers those opportunities.

[exiles]

Catchy. I don't believe I've heard or read 'fake plastic'.

Quite the slam of anyone that plays SA, DMR, HOL, CD, AP, WOO, KEE. They're lotto players huh? If it don't work for you, slam anyone else.

I get it. Sour grapes. Nothing more.

No sour grapes my friend, i have not bet a FAKE PLASTIC RACE since SA went plastic, the SA HOL dirt circuit was my bread and butter, my dirt angles worked there the best, fake plastic results are just too random for me , like a lottery.

[exiles]

I've lost at this years BC despite Betting Conduit ro win, Cost of Freedom e/way, Mis McCall to win, Free Flying Soul e/way

(e/way = win with 2nd or 3rd)

I'll be back next year whether it's on Dirt, on Pro- Ride because this Great Game offers those opportunities.

I don't think PRO RIDE would exist next year.

[Charlie D]

Don't matter what it is made of or what it is called, Synthetics are here to stay and you either adapt or bet soley Turf or Dirt

[bigmack]

Don't matter what it is made of or what it is called, Synthetics are here to stay and you either adapt or bet soley Turf or Dirt
I think that's sage advice for him. Some people have dialed in on it. Others call it random & believe those that play it are akin to lotto players.

You oftentimes get this after people step out of their realm, lose money. They whine, belittle others and point fingers.

[exiles]

[QUOTE=Charlie D]Don't matter what it is made of or what it is called, Synthetics are here to stay and you either adapt or bet soley Turf or Dirt[/QUOTE

SA will go to DIRT that is a sure thing it will because the road to the Kentucky Derby used to go through SA well the FAKE PLASTIC has taken the road away, NY an CHURCHILL will never go to FAKE PLASTIC, only the short meets that already have plastic KEE and DEL MAR will continue to race on plastic, because people bet the marquee short meets, who cares about TWY WO AND AP they are irrelevant in the big picture they can have their POLY,

[Charlie D]

If they want to keep getting the decent/Top Euro's into the gate like they have the last two years for races like the Classic etc they'd be better just leaving it as it is now.

If they want more money in pools, they need to keep attracting horses from places like Euroland and providiing access to bettors Worldwide.

[PaceAdvantage]

The BC has been around for 25 years. How did they exist through all of those early years without the mass rush of Euro runners?

Why is there this need to attract Euro runners to the Breeders' Cup?

I don't see the Europeans running over here trying to get our turf runners to ship over there, do you?

In fact, I would venture to guess that the presence of more Euros with no US form would lead to lower handle, not higher handle, but I could be wrong...

[exiles]

I think that's sage advice for him. Some people have dialed in on it. Others call it random & believe those that play it are akin to lotto players.

You oftentimes get this after people step out of their realm, lose money. They whine, belittle others and point fingers.

You can say what ever you want, one occurrence that proves that FAKE PLASTIC races are random like a lottery is that even w/ 5 and 6 horse fields at SA there is a p6 caryover every other day the same thing was happening at the other plastic track in CA DEL MAR, and then the big syndicates buy most of the races and take the money down no skill, SA and DEL MAR now are known as caryover downs.

[cj]

The BC has been around for 25 years. How did they exist through all of those early years without the mass rush of Euro runners?

Why is there this need to attract Euro runners to the Breeders' Cup?

I don't see the Europeans running over here trying to get our turf runners to ship over there, do you?

In fact, I would venture to guess that the presence of more Euros with no US form would lead to lower handle, not higher handle, but I could be wrong...

This is exactly why my handle was about 20% of what it normally would be for the BC. There are just too many question marks that no matter how good a handicapper you are will amount to educated guesses at best. About the only sure thing was that any horse that only has won on dirt was a toss.

[exiles]

If they want to keep getting the decent/Top Euro's into the gate like they have the last two years for races like the Classic etc they'd be better just leaving it as it is now.

If they want more money in pools, they need to keep attracting horses from places like Euroland and providiing access to bettors Worldwide.

The Euros came before the FAKE PLASTIC and they will come again because money talks and the BC offers a lot of money and prestige, they will not do as well but they will come.

[Charlie D]

When horses go into the KD everyone has a question mark, same when they go to Belmont

When a horse ships from a foriegn country it has question marks, these question marks do not put bettors of betting these races one iota.

[Stillriledup]

There's a difference between longshots and longshots you can't have. No horse that won in the last 2 days at the BC was 'unhavable'.

[bigmack]

You can say what ever you want,
I'm fully aware of that. The fact remains this is your thread and its objective is to whine about synthetics. If you've been following along around these parts your gripe is part of many with the exception that you choose to call people who play synthetics 'lotto players'.

As my final word to you, if you don't like the show, change the channel. Don't deride those that are tuned to the channel.

[cj]

When horses go into the KD everyone has a question mark, same when they go to Belmont

When a horse ships from a foriegn country it has question marks, these question marks do not put bettors of betting these races one iota.

Maybe if that were the only thing. One example is now we had not only shipping in but running on an entirely different surface. Some get Lasix, some don't. Lots of horses like this on the same card make it a pretty big crap shoot from a gambling perspective. It isn't just the Euro horses either.

[Charlie D]

CJ


We have to deal with horse stepping up from a Mile to 12f, running on Good to firm going for a few races then running on to Good to soft, shippin to SA and Pro-ride etc

It does not stop bettors trading and gambling hundreds of thousands, millions of pounds and some making a few quid/ bucks or a nice living from it.

[Charlie D]

What you seem to be doing is admitting defeat instead of working hard or harder at the task set by these conditions.

[slew101]

I agree. Looking back, the one I kicked myself on was the Dirt Mile winner. I had a bad BC, but the full fields and huge odds make for a fun day of gambling.

There's a difference between longshots and longshots you can't have. No horse that won in the last 2 days at the BC was 'unhavable'.

[CincyHorseplayer]

What you seem to be doing is admitting defeat instead of working hard or harder at the task set by these conditions.


Or you just sit back and laugh at this merrygoround of hodgepodge.

Synthetics aren't an intellectual reality that validates or discredits one's handicapping prowess.A lot of these races were weak because of the mish-mash of horses from 3 different surfaces that weren't worth betting.I think if anything some people like this surface because it puts the luck factor back into racing.A lot of 2nd rate horses find their way into the money.

I bet all of 3 races on both cards.Won the only main track race I played in the 1st on Friday.The rest looked pretty piss-poor IMO.Way to go BC.I know a lot of horseplayers feel this way and bet less.

California players got bent over and stuck with this surface reality and won't give it up because it's their favorite place to hang out.I can't blame them.But it's not some iconic Rosetta stone that screams for the elite of mind to crack.Most outside the state just laugh and turn their heads.Whateva!!

[Charlie D]

Synthetics are just another piece in the jigsaw of handicapping races just like Off Turf on to Dirt, has run only on Good To Firm now running on Good To soft or soft.

[LottaKash]

On Breeders Cup Day, I saw bushels & bushels of "Apples & Oranges & (now) Bananas"...:D ...All I wanted was some "Cherries" to pick...Fun and very interesting day tho...

best,

[fmolf]

those who have seen my other posts about synthetics know that i do not wager on poly races.I took the day off yesterday from playing and just watched the races.I do find it interesting that very very few of the euro horses have any poly form.This is because only the cheaper horses over there run on it.That in itself is telling.The euros will still bring their horses over whether they run on dirt or poly. The purses are large enough to warrant it.The next two years at least the bc should be held on dirt with churchill in 2010 and belmont likely up in 2011. I think maybe santa anita after that 2012.I do believe that it wasa mistake in cal. only because the weather is beautiful there.I do not think tracks will be rushing to install it.Perhaps belmont will install poly in place of their inner turf course so we can have three different breeders cup surfaces to race on at the same facility!Everybody's happy then!Belmont could wash the turf races onto the poly without all the scratches...i think its a great idea!Aqu should do it also on their inner track.

[delayjf]

angles that u can use to come up w/ such winners

How about best last race beyer on that surface.
would have got you Furthest Land and Dancing in Silk.

[WinterTriangle]

i have not bet a FAKE PLASTIC RACE since SA went plastic

Well that would certainly account for no winnings at SA. ;)

[WinterTriangle]

The next two years at least the bc should be held on dirt with churchill in 2010 and belmont likely up in 2011.

Looking over some of the past BC SA results, I was amazed at how many horses from BEL hit the board. That was one of my angles this time around.
2008:

F&M Sprint: WO, BEL, BEL, BEL
Juvies fillies: OSA, KEE, BEL, DMR, BEL
Ladies Classic: OSA, BEL, BEL

Whereas Sprint was DMR, TP, OSA, OSA, BEL

"dirt" Mile, Juvenile, Sprint pretty much to OSA, KEE, and DMR horses last year. Classic to locally based or euros.

I found *trends* to be somewhat helpful this weekend.

[Valuist]

Don't matter what it is made of or what it is called, Synthetics are here to stay

Thats what the Equitrack folks said back in the early 90s. I'm sure the Tartan surface connections (Calder 1970s) said the same thing also.

[Tom]

Those who pushed poly are looking might foolish right now. Nothing that they promised came true. The opposite in some cases. The poly people sold a bill of goods and everyone knows it. The big factor is going to be cost. When the savings promised turn into more expenses, they will rip them out overnight.