Zenyatta!!!

[WinterTriangle]

Holy moly. What a filly. This was absolutely amazing. She was dead last and as usual, once she gets going, she nails it.

Beat the boy Euros, and the best boys in the U.S.

:jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[jognlope]

AAAAAAAHHHHHH I'm gonna faint with love!!!!!

[westny]

AAAAAAAHHHHHH I'm gonna faint with love!!!!!

Zenyatta knows the cheers are for her!

She truly is a GREAT race horse.

[Tom]

She don't dance for nuthin!

This is good for racing. Very good.

[098poi]

I went against her in the contest but my eyes were watering as she crossed the finish line. Beautiful! (I will not be doing an interview)

[jognlope]

It's because she was too good to be true!!! And now she is true!!! Lordy lordy. I do hope she gets a nice rest.

[eastie]

maybe she will get a little love out here now. Sheriffs should call Assmussen and tell him "I'll be down to see you in New Orleans, have your filly ready boy."

[MickJ26]

She's awesome.
Congrats to Big Z, Mike Smith, John Sheriffs and the Moss family.

[FastAndFurious]

:lol: She don't dance for nuthin!

This is good for racing. Very good.

[RaceBookJoe]

Very nice performance...i tried to beat her with Twice Over..oh well. I really enjoyed the BC this year. rbj

[bigmack]

Mighty thrilling. Mighty good for racing as Tom said. Good for Moss & Co for backing up their faith in her.

[WinterTriangle]

14 for 14, undeafeated

8 G1's

It's neat looking at her PPs, and just read straight down, zenyat, zenyat, zenyat

Yeah, she's one for the history books.

[ezrabrooks]

HOY...

[illinoisbred]

Impressive performance. Certainly has to be a strong candidate if not outright HOY.

[bane]

It is good for racing but it will not come to affect unless her and RA meet. I am sick of saying what if..., for god's sake Damscaus and Dr. Fager, Alydar and Affirmed, Let these two meet! I don't want to say that I watched the best filly and mare race at the same time and they never met.

[46zilzal]

Final time handicapping is full of holes as today's performance showed. Big closers only get by the pace that is given to them.

[bisket]

It is good for racing but it will not come to affect unless her and RA meet. I am sick of saying what if..., for god's sake Damscaus and Dr. Fager, Alydar and Affirmed, Let these two meet! I don't want to say that I watched the best filly and mare race at the same time and they never met.
this has been my thinking all year. its truly a shame

[MNslappy]

this has been my thinking all year. its truly a shame

Yeah, but then we'd have to argue about whether they should run it on dirt or poly. :p

[PaceAdvantage]

maybe she will get a little love out here now. Sheriffs should call Assmussen and tell him "I'll be down to see you in New Orleans, have your filly ready boy."Yeah, because we all have seen how game Sheriffs and Moss have been up until today....:rolleyes:

Didn't they scratch out of that race at Churchill they were supposed to run at earlier this year because it was raining?

[Show Me the Wire]

Yeah, because we all have seen how game Sheriffs and Moss have been up until today....:rolleyes:

Didn't they scratch out of that race at Churchill they were supposed to run at earlier this year because it was raining?

Why risk your most valuable asset? Smart decision. I scratch my horses when it rained.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why risk your most valuable asset? Smart decision. I scratch my horses when it rained.Excellent point. Now why don't you extend the same courtesy to camp Rachel Alexandra?

How is not wanting to risk your horse on an off track any different than not wanting to risk your horse on a totally different foreign surface, such as Pro-Ride?

And yet you call this ducking I believe...if that wasn't you, I apologize in advance.

[Show Me the Wire]

Excellent point. Now why don't you extend the same courtesy to camp Rachel Alexandra?

How is not wanting to risk your horse on an off track any different than not wanting to risk your horse on a totally different foreign surface, such as Pro-Ride?

And yet you call this ducking I believe...if that wasn't you, I apologize in advance.

I do extend the same courtesy to RA. Did I miss something? Was there a safety issue today? I did not see any horrific breakdowns or even pull-ups.

The only place this idea of the track being dangerous is in Jess Jackson's excuse bag, to duck Zenyatta and secure HOY for his filly.

I think he is a shrewd owner, spotted his filly in the right races at the correct distances and duck the possibility of competing against a monster, by saying the surface is unsafe.

Smart man.

[PaceAdvantage]

Weren't there posts lamenting the fact that Rachel Alexandra's LIFE was in danger because she was being pitted against the boys in the Preakness right after the Kentucky Oaks? I don't think you were one of those concerned for her well being, but maybe you were...it wasn't an uncommon theme here once Jess Jackson took control...

But now that somehow turns into "correct spotting," which then morphs itself into "ducking" somehow along the way....

So now all of a sudden, if you had just woken up from a seven month nap and clicked on PaceAdvantage.com, you would think RACHEL was the one beating up on cream puffs all year long and ZENYATTA was the one slugging it out WAY ABOVE her pay grade these many months....

Again, I must ask...is it me?

[Cratos]

Holy moly. What a filly. This was absolutely amazing. She was dead last and as usual, once she gets going, she nails it.

Beat the boy Euros, and the best boys in the U.S.

:jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

This weekend was the first time I had the opportunity to see Zenyatta up close in person and she is one beautiful racehorse. She is every bit as beautiful as Ruffian, Buckpasser, or Alydar; all who were very beautiful racehorses.

[JPinMaryland]

I confess I have not watched racing since the summer but I was suprised Zenyatta was so heavily bet. What was she 5-2? I thought that was an overlay for sure just turning it on this afternoon.

So impressed by what I saw today; so effin impressed. :ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

For the record, I think Zenyatta is an amazing mare and is good for the game. Any horse that makes people go out and cheer is good for the game.

I love her pre-race antics...never seen anything quite like her before when it comes to pre-race rituals and whatnot...

Any horse that goes undefeated is a special horse...be it Zenyatta, Personal Ensign, or even Hallowed Dreams....

There is no denying Zenyatta is as game as they come and is one of the great mares of all time.

With all of that said, I still don't think the win in the Breeders' Cup Classic trumps what Rachel Alexandra accomplished as a three-year-old filly.

In a year filled with special, wonderous accomplishments, I truly believe Rachel's was more special, more unique, and more deserving of Horse of the Year.

[eastie]

why didn't you say this in the first place ? :)

[Show Me the Wire]

Weren't there posts lamenting the fact that Rachel Alexandra's LIFE was in danger because she was being pitted against the boys in the Preakness right after the Kentucky Oaks? I don't think you were one of those concerned for her well being, but maybe you were...it wasn't an uncommon theme here once Jess Jackson took control...

But now that somehow turns into "correct spotting," which then morphs itself into "ducking" somehow along the way....

So now all of a sudden, if you had just woken up from a seven month nap and clicked on PaceAdvantage.com, you would think RACHEL was the one beating up on cream puffs all year long and ZENYATTA was the one slugging it out WAY ABOVE her pay grade these many months....

Again, I must ask...is it me?


See my post #161
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=773317#post773317

Generally, I fear for females running against males, plenty of bad precedent.
As with all things there are exceptions to the rule and RA is one of those exceptions.

You may also recall, I beleived RA showed some distance limitations too. Her connections have figured this out, which is great.

I never bashed RA in fact I gave her props for her accomplishments. My position is consistent, if you want to be HOY you have to come to the ball and dance.

Her connections didn't come and I have an inkling facing Zenyatta played greatly in the decision not to come and dance with the champions.

[Cat Thief]

You know I personally don't care if they meet. I have enjoyed watching both of them demolish the competition. They don't have to meet. They are both great.

[Show Me the Wire]

Catthief:

I agree with you. I enjoyed watching both of them race and perform.

PA:

BTW correct spotting implies ducking other horses and ducking unfavorable distances.

[Stillriledup]

I do extend the same courtesy to RA. Did I miss something? Was there a safety issue today? I did not see any horrific breakdowns or even pull-ups.

The only place this idea of the track being dangerous is in Jess Jackson's excuse bag, to duck Zenyatta and secure HOY for his filly.

I think he is a shrewd owner, spotted his filly in the right races at the correct distances and duck the possibility of competing against a monster, by saying the surface is unsafe.

Smart man.


Yes, you missed something.

Go back and check which filly/mare had more grade 1 wins on the year and which filly/mare raced more times total and which filly mare started more times and which filly/mare started her 2009 campaign in February and which one started in May. I also know that most people think Beyer figs mean nothing, but you might want to check those out too. Go back and check all that stuff you missed and get back to us, ok?

[PaceAdvantage]

You may also recall, I beleived RA showed some distance limitations too. Her connections have figured this out, which is great.You and ghostyapper as well. Maybe you can explain this one to me better than ghostyapper did, because he failed to convince me.

Exactly how did RA show distance limitations?

and

A man sends his 3yo filly out to win the Preakness, the Haskell and the Woodward, and he's labeled a "ducker."

Another man sits home all years, races his mare only four times against absolutely nothing, then decides to actually race her against a field of runners and suddenly, he's sportsman of the year and the mare is HOY.

Makes sense. But only if you acquired amnesia on November 6, 2009.

[Stillriledup]

You and ghostyapper as well. Maybe you can explain this one to me better than ghostyapper did, because he failed to convince me.

Exactly how did RA show distance limitations?

and

A man sends his 3yo filly out to win the Preakness, the Haskell and the Woodward, and he's labeled a "ducker."

Another man sits home all years, races his mare only four times against absolutely nothing, then decides to actually race her against a field of runners and suddenly, he's sportsman of the year and the mare is HOY.

Makes sense. But only if you acquired amnesia on November 6, 2009.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

Z now conviently retires with nothing left to 'prove'.

Awesome.

[Show Me the Wire]

Yes, you missed something.

Go back and check which filly/mare had more grade 1 wins on the year and which filly/mare raced more times total and which filly mare started more times and which filly/mare started her 2009 campaign in February and which one started in May. I also know that most people think Beyer figs mean nothing, but you might want to check those out too. Go back and check all that stuff you missed and get back to us, ok?

Did I miss something about the alleged dangerous condition of the track. After all that was the excuse wasn't it? Nope I didn't miss anything, but RA did. She missed the big dance.

[Show Me the Wire]

You and ghostyapper as well. Maybe you can explain this one to me better than ghostyapper did, because he failed to convince me.

Exactly how did RA show distance limitations?

and

A man sends his 3yo filly out to win the Preakness, the Haskell and the Woodward, and he's labeled a "ducker."

Another man sits home all years, races his mare only four times against absolutely nothing, then decides to actually race her against a field of runners and suddenly, he's sportsman of the year and the mare is HOY.

Makes sense. But only if you acquired amnesia on November 6, 2009.

Read the comment line for the Woodward, Fully extended, watch the race RA shortened stride to almost a walk. She definetly shows distance limitations. But that is not unusual, generally speaking all horses have distance limitations. Remember the best working definition of class is how a horse carries speed over a distance of ground with weight.

Can you honestly say RA would have held off Macho Again for another 1/16 th with her drastically shortened stride? Her body language indicates the limitation.

About the amount of races. Each connection campaigned their horse sucessfully to accomplish their goals. Zenyatta's goal was the B.C. and R.A.'s was not.

My opinion is the B.C. races, especially the classic, should hold more weight and I have been posting that opinion prior to the B.C. I think R.A.'s connections were wrong by sitting out the B.C.

If R.A, would have won or even made a decent showing in the Ladies Classic while Zenyatta won the Classic, I would say R.A. deserved HOY, because she showed up to the dance.

My hesitation about HOY is not with the R.A.'s performances but with the connections decision to sit out the championships.

With that said, I still do not think R.A. based on her best performance would beat Zenyatta on her best day.

[westny]

Read the comment line for the Woodward, Fully extended, watch the race RA shortened stride to almost a walk. She definetly shows distance limitations. But that is not unusual, generally speaking all horses have distance limitations. Remember the best working definition of class is how a horse carries speed over a distance of ground with weight.

Can you honestly say RA would have held off Macho Again for another 1/16 th with her drastically shortened stride? Her body language indicates the limitation.

About the amount of races. Each connection campaigned their horse sucessfully to accomplish their goals. Zenyatta's goal was the B.C. and R.A.'s was not.

My opinion is the B.C. races, especially the classic, should hold more weight and I have been posting that opinion prior to the B.C. I think R.A.'s connections were wrong by sitting out the B.C.

If R.A, would have won or even made a decent showing in the Ladies Classic while Zenyatta won the Classic, I would say R.A. deserved HOY, because she showed up to the dance.

My hesitation about HOY is not with the R.A.'s performances but with the connections decision to sit out the championships.

With that said, I still do not think R.A. based on her best performance would beat Zenyatta on her best day.

All you posted is supposition and conjecture on your part.

The FACT that you conveniently avoid is that Zenyatta's connections kept her racing on fake track and refused to send Zenyatta to race on dirt. RA's connections did the same after their experiece with Curlin on fake track.

Fake track has introduced a third racing surface...akin to racing a turf horse on dirt and then criticizing the turf horse's performance on an alien surface, for them.

Zenyatta won the BCC, and two TURF horses finished 2nd and 3rd. That is ALL anyone needs to understand about fake track and who ran on it and who did not.

The introduction of fake track has, and will skew the HOY awards while there are three racing surfaces, turf,dirt and plastic.

[Show Me the Wire]

All you posted is supposition and conjecture on your part.

The FACT that you conveniently avoid is that Zenyatta's connections kept her racing on fake track and refused to send Zenyatta to race on dirt. RA's connections did the same after their experiece with Curlin on fake track.

Fake track has introduced a third racing surface...akin to racing a turf horse on dirt and then criticizing the turf horse's performance on an alien surface, for them.

Zenyatta won the BCC, and two TURF horses finished 2nd and 3rd. That is ALL anyone needs to understand about fake track and who ran on it and who did not.

The introduction of fake track has, and will skew the HOY awards while there are three racing surfaces, turf,dirt and plastic.

I posted my opinion that B.C. championship races. That is the way I feel.

If you think R.A. would have held off Macho Again for another 1/16th good for you. I beleive most objective observers would disagree with you.

Also is it pure conjencture and speculation on my part that the connections were sucessful in their campaigns?

How about all that mud/slop at Monmouth, did that surface skew the races too and HOYs?

Don't bother getting back to me, as my questions are rhetorical.

[FenceBored]

Read the comment line for the Woodward, Fully extended, watch the race RA shortened stride to almost a walk. She definetly shows distance limitations. But that is not unusual, generally speaking all horses have distance limitations. Remember the best working definition of class is how a horse carries speed over a distance of ground with weight.

Can you honestly say RA would have held off Macho Again for another 1/16 th with her drastically shortened stride? Her body language indicates the limitation.

About the amount of races. Each connection campaigned their horse sucessfully to accomplish their goals. Zenyatta's goal was the B.C. and R.A.'s was not.

My opinion is the B.C. races, especially the classic, should hold more weight and I have been posting that opinion prior to the B.C. I think R.A.'s connections were wrong by sitting out the B.C.

If R.A, would have won or even made a decent showing in the Ladies Classic while Zenyatta won the Classic, I would say R.A. deserved HOY, because she showed up to the dance.

My hesitation about HOY is not with the R.A.'s performances but with the connections decision to sit out the championships.

With that said, I still do not think R.A. based on her best performance would beat Zenyatta on her best day.

And I think your position renders the rest of the year pointless. Hey, just show up for the BC, that's all that matters. Unfortunately, the best horse doesn't always win a particular race. The advantage of the Eclipse awards is that they take the entire year's body of work into account, giving a horse who has a bad day a chance to try to make up for it on other days.

This "big dance," "biggest race," stuff is too simplistic for a sport like racing which doesn't have a defined season with 16 games, or 162 games and a playoff structure. If the BC is in a location that owners don't feel will showcase their horse, they need to have the ability to offset a non-appearance. Next year, if someone has a main track horse that they don't want to run on dirt, then I hope they can map out an impressive campaign to make a real run at HOY. It would be a tragedy if they felt dismissed out of hand because they don't run at CD in Nov.

[Show Me the Wire]

And I think your position renders the rest of the year pointless. Hey, just show up for the BC, that's all that matters. Unfortunately, the best horse doesn't always win a particular race. The advantage of the Eclipse awards is that they take the entire year's body of work into account, giving a horse who has a bad day a chance to try to make up for it on other days.

This "big dance," "biggest race," stuff is too simplistic for a sport like racing which doesn't have a defined season with 16 games, or 162 games and a playoff structure. If the BC is in a location that owners don't feel will showcase their horse, they need to have the ability to offset a non-appearance. Next year, if someone has a main track horse that they don't want to run on dirt, then I hope they can map out an impressive campaign to make a real run at HOY. It would be a tragedy if they felt dismissed out of hand because they don't run at CD in Nov.

My position renders the year pointless? Did Zenyatta only race one time this year? Did Zenyatta have any bad days?

They both had excellent years and the tie breaker should be participating in the championships. That is my opinion, now we will have to wait and see how the people with the votes feel about R.A. skipping the championships.

[FenceBored]

My position renders the year pointless? Did Zenyatta only race one time this year?

Zenyatta's 4 other races this year would not scream HOY if it were anyone else.



Did Zenyatta have any bad days?


No, and neither did Rachel, if by bad day we mean a loss. So then we have to look at the totality of what's been accomplished.

They both had excellent years and the tie breaker should be participating in the championships. That is my opinion, now we will have to wait and see how the people with the votes feel about R.A. skipping the championships.

A tie breaker only applies where you have a tie. Scoring 21 points in the last two minutes of the 4th quarter is impressive, but it doesn't change things if you were 35 points down. Rachel had an impressive, I would say insurmountable, lead going into the weekend. The question is who much weight do we give a BC win.

If you say that the BC is not only a tie breaker, not only twice as important as a regular G1, but four or five times as important, then you're, in effect, saying that the rest of the year is only a prelude, jockeying for position in the BC starting gate. I think it's possible to see the BC as more important than any other individual racing event in the US without trying to make it so important that nothing else much matters.