Damn synth! Ha

[tzipi]

Not one actual dirt horse won a "dirt" race today! I hate this! ha

I mean it's horse racing,not the end of the world. But as a fan of horse racing, geez can we get back to dirt courses where dirt is dirt and turf is turf! No wonder most top dirt horses aren't here. It's all synth and turf horses entered in the dirt races and winning them. Will bet very little again tomorrow.

I will not touch a strict dirt horse tomorrow. If I lose oh well,but dirt horses are running up the track again. Breeders Cup is not the same anymore. It's NOT a championship day. JMO. Ahhhh oh well.

[cj]

To be fair, no turf horses won either. Today it was clearly a third surface.

[tzipi]

By the way this is not to trash synth fans or whatever. I just love my old Santa Anita,Belmont,Gulfstream,etc dirt Breeders Cup days! It was dirt championships back then for me. Hey if anyone loves it and did well today. Congrats enjoy! :jump:

[Seabiscuit@AR]

The dirt only provides a test of speed

Synthetics provide a test of both speed and stamina

Synthetics make for better racing (as does turf which is probably the best surface of the lot)

[tzipi]

To be fair, no turf horses won either. Today it was clearly a third surface.

Yeah but turf horses have their races and won them today. I mean dirt horses.

[tzipi]

The dirt only provides a test of speed

Synthetics provide a test of both speed and stamina

Synthetics make for better racing (as does turf which is probably the best surface of the lot)


Are you saying that if Secretariat, or Seattle,Affirmed,Cigar,etc amongst other greats lost on synthetics they would be put in a class of horses not having speed and stamina??

[the little guy]

To be fair, no turf horses won either. Today it was clearly a third surface.


Life is Sweet?

[cj]

She had synthetic form...I'm talking about the strictly turf horses that had no rubber form. Of course that is mostly the couple Euros anyway.

[Show Me the Wire]

Are you saying that if Secretariat, or Seattle,Affirmed,Cigar,etc amongst other greats lost on synthetics they would be put in a class of horses not having speed and stamina??

I don't think the above-metioned horses would have lost because of the surface. All of them had stamina and speed.

I did not see any horses like the above-mentioned compete today.

[WinterTriangle]

The prices were terrific today, none of the chalk, and I made sure not to bet "dirt" horses to win.

Wonder if that will carry to tomorrow?

[tzipi]

I don't think the above-metioned horses would have lost because of the surface. All of them had stamina and speed.

I did not see any horses like the above-mentioned compete today.


If you're saying those horses would be a lock on sythn,that's a bit crazy. This stuff obviously runs different.

C'mon Ravens Pass trainer said HE WOULD NOT RUN in the BC if it was on dirt. That article was posted on the forum. Very telling.

[DeanT]

The prices were terrific today, none of the chalk, and I made sure not to bet "dirt" horses to win.

Wonder if that will carry to tomorrow?
I thought it was a great wagering day too.

Great weather, decent card, huge pools and nice horses.

Now I just have to figure out how to get a winner before the race :)

[toussaud]

I have and had a theory on turf to synethics that i actually think was somewhat confirmed today

turf to synethics isn't a necessary lock. it is'nt the same surface3

but some horses that take to turf have a pedigree that are condisuve to synethics as well, i.e kingmabo, elusive quality, dynaformer, empire maker (second place in the ladies classic today), storm cat (first in the ladies classic) street cry, mr greeley, assuming a horse doesn't have previous synth form


and i would imagine if you dont' watch socal racing all year you could be quite lost, but there are certain pedigrees that clearly take to the fake.


you will get no where very fast blindly turf to synth.

but a horse that has a "synethic pedigree" that is going from turf to sytn you need to take a long hard look at

the only horse i payed any attention to today was m an of iron on the transfer and i'd be lying if i said i had him, i didn't, but i put him in my exacta under mastrry... i just thought mastery was just too good. appartnly my theory held up too well. :mad:

[bisket]

most of the handicapping public has a routine that they've aquired for many years, and just don't get it as far as handicapping poly. probably have about another year or two of making money on this surface until the public catches up. if you know what horses to look for and know what not to look for you can usually narrow races down and stay in the black in your betting account. two that i'll be very very suprised if they show up in the money in the classic tomorrow. summer bird and quality road. although with quality's change in running style :confused: he may just make it in the tri. he has been running evenly lately.

[Show Me the Wire]

If you're saying those horses would be a lock on sythn,that's a bit crazy. This stuff obviously runs different.

C'mon Ravens Pass trainer said HE WOULD NOT RUN in the BC if it was on dirt. That article was posted on the forum. Very telling.

I am saying the same as Seabiscuit@AR you need stamina and speed. I believe the horses you mentioned had those qualities.

Yes, it plays differently because it is a fairer surface and the jocks ride accordingly.

Unlike dirt not every horse is fighting fatigue at the end. Dirt is a naturally tiring surface and is not a natural surface for horses either. Dirt favors early speed, the horse with the pace advantage to the 1/2 mile pole to hang on while fatigue takes it toll on the whole field.

I prefer to see horses running at the end of the race, as they do on the synthetics.

[point given]

I thought it was a great wagering day too.

Great weather, decent card, huge pools and nice horses.

Now I just have to figure out how to get a winner before the race :)

i thought so too, didn't mind the synth as much as i thought i would, having been loath to it forever. Missed Life is Sweet for the p4 but minimal bleeding for the day and i enjoyed the card having been off horses since Saratoga, guess i needed the freshening ;)

[DeanT]

i thought so too, didn't mind the synth as much as i thought i would, having been loath to it forever. Missed Life is Sweet for the p4 but minimal bleeding for the day and i enjoyed the card having been off horses since Saratoga, guess i needed the freshening ;)
Tough luck on the pick 4 loss. I had a couple close calls, but no scores.

I am similar with the two day format as well (the surface never bugged me; MTH in the slop I handicapped to that, SA on synthetic I handicap that, Lone Star on fast dirt I cap to that. I am just a dumb handicapper so put ten brown horses in front of me with PP's and that is about all I need) as I really thought the two days was overkill when I first heard of it. But this year for some reason I was ready for day one, and looked forward to day two. I am ready for tomorrow just like clockwork this year. I guess it has grown on me.

Anyhow, good luck tomorrow.

[Show Me the Wire]

tpizi"

Speaking of trainers and telling events, look at Bob Baffert. He left So. Cal. in a snit saying how he didn't like synthtic. Look at him now, he is back with a vengence. Seems he learned how to train his horses to win on the AWS.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Not a win bettor. Picked 3 first choice winners in the big races and the last race. Picked the 5th, 6th, 8th, and 9th races. Missed out on two pick 4's in the filly sprint. Didn't have either of the chalks in that race.
What pissed me off the most was the non existent late double that I picked cold, but I'm live onto Quality Road and Colonel John in the existent double.

[Valuist]

Hopefully Paul LoDuca will read this. He was all over some dirt horses today, saying Music Note "was a lock" and he loved Devil May Care in the Juvenile Fillies. Earth to Paul: this isn't Belmont Park.

[WinterTriangle]

turf to synethics isn't a necessary lock.

I don't believe in locks, not in races like this where there is talent, top jocks, all applying their skills.

I gave a list in the BC topic of "locks" that would not win. None of the ones on my list won.

None of this is surface related. It is clues and details that we as bettors do not pick up.

Visit had the rail post, was watching his workouts, he is always on the wrong lead. No way he was going to be ITM against the other runners doing that. Mastery and/or Lillie Langtry, forgot which did what, but one was fascinated by making new friends was too interested in other horses and new environment, (bad focus I thought, having too much fun) and the other was wet and hot off workouts. Not good. There were a lot of other things but I can't post all my notes. :) (I don't read workouts for numbers....I read them for behavioral clues).



I don't usually do well at So Cal but rocked it today, then realized it's because for TC and BC, I do a lot of research and reading. I know more about the horses, and their habits and circumstances, than I usually do. (That I can't get from PPs.)

I would like to use software to make things easier, but I don't think it picks up on subtle stuff like horse behavior, acclimation, etc. does it?

[tzipi]

Hopefully Paul LoDuca will read this. He was all over some dirt horses today, saying Music Note "was a lock" and he loved Devil May Care in the Juvenile Fillies. Earth to Paul: this isn't Belmont Park.


No actual dirt horse is a lock. Synthetics play to turf and sythentic horses. He should know that now. It's proven over and over. Look at todays results. Same Breeders Cup results.

[Robert Fischer]

I guess this thread is an interesting factoid, but 3/4ths of the synth BC races were [won by] obvious contenders (and i still don't like Life is Sweet in the Ladies Classic).

It's not like we didn't all circle these "3rd surface" horses a few days ago.

[toussaud]

if you didn't like today you will explode tomorrow

[fmolf]

I am saying the same as Seabiscuit@AR you need stamina and speed. I believe the horses you mentioned had those qualities.

Yes, it plays differently because it is a fairer surface and the jocks ride accordingly.

Unlike dirt not every horse is fighting fatigue at the end. Dirt is a naturally tiring surface and is not a natural surface for horses either. Dirt favors early speed, the horse with the pace advantage to the 1/2 mile pole to hang on while fatigue takes it toll on the whole field.

I prefer to see horses running at the end of the race, as they do on the synthetics.
going slow early and slower late is not stamina.....stamina is a fast paced dirt race that the horse with the stamina can overcome to win.

[jjm323]

Cigar couldn't run a lick on grass.

[Valuist]

What does Cigar's grass ability have to do with anything? The horse was a monster on dirt. Once they realized that, there was no need to run on grass.

[jognlope]

Tapitsfly did great and Careless Jewel toasted out, what a disappointment, but at least I didn't bet. Both are "out of" Tapit, did I say that right?

[toussaud]

Tapitsfly did great and Careless Jewel toasted out, what a disappointment, but at least I didn't bet. Both are "out of" Tapit, did I say that right?


By- sire
out of - dam

so it's by tapit

[jognlope]

Literally! Thanks.