Fort Hood Texas

[wes]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/?GT1=43001

12 dead, 30 injured

wes

[ddog]

They are giving last name Hassan???

A freakin Major!!!!


You guess.


terrible sit when you can't trust the inside.

How many more???

Pray for the families doesn't really cover it. :(

[andymays]

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/soldiers-killed-fort-hood-shooting/story?id=9007938

Excerpt:

Twelve people have been killed and 31 wounded in a shooting spree at a Texas military base by what officials believe was possibly carried out by an Army officer.

The suspected gunman was identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan.

[cj's dad]

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/soldiers-killed-fort-hood-shooting/story?id=9007938

Excerpt:

Twelve people have been killed and 31 wounded in a shooting spree at a Texas military base by what officials believe was possibly carried out by an Army officer.

The suspected gunman was identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan.

hard to believe ??

[JustRalph]

This one blows me away..........

A friggin major?


This is bad.............real bad............

[bigmack]

Hasan is frantically trying to get out of deployment to the point of getting borderline psychotic about it, he's Muslim and not a flag went up while Aunt Betty is boarding a plane with no water and having to take her shoes off and she's a Lutheran?

Scrape diversity training and bring on the profiling.

Nice to hear he's alive. Justice Fed/Texas style.

[boxcar]

What a tragedy! And this term doesn't even begin to describe what happened and how the Army could keep this guy and not discharge him given his anti-American sentiments.

In the coming weeks, we're going to hear spin out of the MM and the administration like you have never imagined. Brace yourself and listen very carefully to what is said and, perhaps, even more importantly what isn't.

Boxcar

[BlueShoe]

Just one more example of why "Islam is a religion of peace".Muslims should not be serving in our armed forces.In fact,perhaps they should not be allowed to live in the United States,period.In 1492 Spain expelled all Muslims from their country.Perhaps we should borrow a page from history and do likewise.

[Robert Goren]

What a tragedy! And this term doesn't even begin to describe what happened and how the Army could keep this guy and not discharge him given his anti-American sentiments.

In the coming weeks, we're going to hear spin out of the MM and the administration like you have never imagined. Brace yourself and listen very carefully to what is said and, perhaps, even more importantly what isn't.

Boxcar When the dust clears, it will be some NCO's fault that he was promoted to major. I have never seen a general take the blame for anything.

[Tom]

Put the blame where it belongs - this POS mad dog.
Why are we wasting taxpayer dollar to keep him alive?
Say a prayer for him - that he is in excruciating pain.
You kill mad dogs. End of story.

I suppose the libs would even oppose water boarding him to make sure he acted alone.

[delayjf]

When the dust clears, it will be some NCO's fault that he was promoted to major. I have never seen a general take the blame for anything.

It's SOP to promote Dr., they come in as Captains and you can make it up to LtCol by simply doing your job - the demand is that great. His promotion is nobody's fault, and I'm sure he's not the first soldier who didn't want to deploy.

[boxcar]

It's SOP to promote Dr., they come in as Captains and you can make it up to LtCol by simply doing your job - the demand is that great. His promotion is nobody's fault, and I'm sure he's not the first soldier who didn't want to deploy.

For sure. But what is slowly coming out, thus far, points to Political Correctness run amok! This guy was a ticking time bomb, so it appears, and everyone turned a blind eye!? This is why I stated earlier -- listen very carefully for the spin the MM and the WH is going to put on this awful tragedy -- a tragedy that right now has the appearance of having been preventable.

Boxcar

[Dave Schwartz]

Nice to hear he's alive. Justice Fed/Texas style.

Mack,

This is a military crime that comes with military justice. State shouldn't be involved.


Dave

[rastajenk]

How would you like to be the medical staff treating his wounds? That would be a tough position to be in.

"Do you need something for the pain?"

"Yes, please."

"Tough shit."

[46zilzal]

They STILL don't get it PTSD is insidious and largely not diagnosed as it is hidden. Create killers and then bring them back to civilization without de-programming them? Ripe for repeats of this over and over.

[rastajenk]

Who will program the de-programmers? Isn't that what this guy's job was?

[lilmegahertz]

This is heartbreaking for the victims. If any of the killed were returning from the war only to be murdered.....I feel so bad for them all. I am glad he is still alive and will be punished.

[Overlay]

They STILL don't get it PTSD is insidious and largely not diagnosed as it is hidden. Create killers and then bring them back to civilization without de-programming them? Ripe for repeats of this over and over.

Hasan treated people with PTSD, but I don't believe that he himself had been previously deployed, and reports indicate that he was dreading his imminent deployment.

[OTM Al]

Just one more example of why "Islam is a religion of peace".Muslims should not be serving in our armed forces.In fact,perhaps they should not be allowed to live in the United States,period.In 1492 Spain expelled all Muslims from their country.Perhaps we should borrow a page from history and do likewise.

Yes they did. Right after they did the same thing to the Jews for much the same reasons. If they didn't leave they would be forced to convert and were hunted down by the inquisition. A real sterling period in human history.... Perhaps you think we should do that too.

One man did this. He is to blame.

[46zilzal]

Hasan treated people with PTSD, but I don't believe that he himself had been previously deployed, and reports indicate that he was dreading his imminent deployment.
PTSD does NOT have to be generated in a battle field. I have seen many a psychiatrist who internalized his work and needed a LONG deprogramming from the stress of his work..Other M.D.'s as well.

STRESS is stress no matter the source

[bigmack]

Hasan treated people with PTSD, but I don't believe that he himself had been previously deployed, and reports indicate that he was dreading his imminent deployment.
When you put a nickel in the Zilly gum ball machine you just keep getting the same gum ball, over & over. He doesn't need facts just pat little sayings & 'blinky' little quips for every topic. Like interjecting in the critically injured jockey thread that people shouldn't bother praying.

Liberal? Don't think so. More unhinged.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/800.jpg

[Show Me the Wire]

Yes they did. Right after they did the same thing to the Jews for much the same reasons. If they didn't leave they would be forced to convert and were hunted down by the inquisition. A real sterling period in human history.... Perhaps you think we should do that too.

One man did this. He is to blame.

Historically speaking the expulsion was for political reasons. The Jews were expelled for being complicit (through influential leaders) with the Moors or is it Moops. ;)

If it wasn't for the Jewish support of the Moors the Jews would not have been expelled for political reasons or forced to swear allegiance to the State by converting to Christiantiy.

[BlueShoe]

One man did this. He is to blame.
Yes,but he acted on behalf of Islam.Those that knew him stated he had made frequent anti American remarks and said that all Muslims should stand together.Islam is incompatible with Western Society and Christianity.In every Western nation in which they reside they have caused huge problems,from riots and crime in France to raping Swedish women to just plain nuisances in England,etc.In the US,so far,their misdeeds have been relatively low in comparison to Europe,but it is going to get worse.Even US born Muslims have been radicalized to a large extent.The big myth today is that most Muslims are "Moderates",when in fact very few of them are.Perhaps we should learn from the Israelis and their no nonsense attitude just how to deal with Muslims.

[Robert Goren]

Eric Rudolph (the Olympic bomber) acted on behalf of the pro-life movement. Maybe we should boot them out of the country too.

[ArlJim78]

Eric Rudolph (the Olympic bomber) acted on behalf of the pro-life movement. Maybe we should boot them out of the country too.
baloney, the pro life movement does not teach its members to kill or behead non believers.

[Robert Goren]

When will I learn? I guess I should never use sarcasm here.

[dartman51]

Perhaps we should learn from the Israelis and their no nonsense attitude just how to deal with Muslims.

You are absolutely correct, but Gee, I thought he acted on behalf of George W Bush. Surely there's a way we can blame him for this.

[boxcar]

Yes,but he acted on behalf of Islam.Those that knew him stated he had made frequent anti American remarks and said that all Muslims should stand together.Islam is incompatible with Western Society and Christianity.In every Western nation in which they reside they have caused huge problems,from riots and crime in France to raping Swedish women to just plain nuisances in England,etc.In the US,so far,their misdeeds have been relatively low in comparison to Europe,but it is going to get worse.Even US born Muslims have been radicalized to a large extent.The big myth today is that most Muslims are "Moderates",when in fact very few of them are.Perhaps we should learn from the Israelis and their no nonsense attitude just how to deal with Muslims.

To many a Muslim, the Crusades never ended. And herein is the crux of the problem. To the radical Muslim, it's his duty to convert the whole world, so in a real sense, these radicals live and breathe this "Us v. Them" mentality. Keep in mind: Those who refuse to convert are required to be put to death.

As stated previously, this is a religion spawned from the darkest pit of hell, largely because the moderates (if any exist) have allowed the radicals to hijack the religion. The inmates are truly running the asylum.

Boxcar

[Tom]

PTSD does NOT have to be generated in a battle field. I have seen many a psychiatrist who internalized his work and needed a LONG deprogramming from the stress of his work..Other M.D.'s as well.

STRESS is stress no matter the source
And what kind of doctor worth his alt makes a diagnosis over a news report. You have absolutely NO IDEA what caused this.

[bigmack]

And what kind of doctor worth his alt makes a diagnosis over a news report. You have absolutely NO IDEA what caused this.
He don't and Time don't and Newsweek don't.

It's all the result of War. Nothing to do with religion. Get that out of your heads!

Newsweek article to come out:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/11_6_09_17_10_39.png
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thehumancondition/archive/2009/11/06/is-fort-hood-a-harbinger-nidal-malik-hasan-may-be-a-symptom-of-a-military-on-the-brink.aspx



http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/11_6_09_17_12_36.png
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1936085,00.html

[BlueShoe]

It's all the result of War. Nothing to do with religion. Get that out of your heads!l (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1936085,00.html)
It had EVERYTHING to do with religion.More and more information is coming out,and he was a terrorist pure and simple,and his rampage was apparantly well planned in advance.As we might expect,the left wing media is playing the usual PC game,and is making excuses for this killer;its the war,he was under stress,he was given a bad review,he was picked on because of his faith,ad nauseum.BS.Where is the media sympathy for those that he killed and wounded?How about the hundreds of family members and friends of those that he shot,what about them?The left seems to have more sympathy for this demon than they do for his victims,and are falling all over themselves making excuses.Revolting.

[bigmack]

It had EVERYTHING to do with religion.More and more information is coming out,and he was a terrorist pure and simple,and his rampage was apparantly well planned in advance.As we might expect,the left wing media is playing the usual PC game,and is making excuses for this killer;its the war,he was under stress,he was given a bad review,he was picked on because of his faith,ad nauseum.BS.Where is the media sympathy for those that he killed and wounded?How about the hundreds of family members and friends of those that he shot,what about them?The left seems to have more sympathy for this demon than they do for his victims,and are falling all over themselves making excuses.Revolting.
Let's not jump to conclusions. I think it's better to jump to the conclusion that Stress Syndrome transferred to him or that the rigors of these wars forced him to do what he did.

Again, it's too early to jump to conclusions.

Someone tell that to: CNN, MSNBC, Larry King, Dr. Phil, ABC, Time, Newsweek, K. Olbermann, CBS...

D. Ratigan

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/11_6_09_18_23_12.png

Diane Sawyer:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/11_6_09_18_25_29.png

& the best for last, get this from R. Maddow

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/11_6_09_18_28_21.png

[boxcar]

I see the Big Spin has begun. Next Phase: This murderous devil will soon transformed into a victim by the MM right before our eyes.

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

We heard from everyone except the gun store owner who sold him his guns. They should not sell guns to Muslims. I want to know why they sold to him. It bad enough that we have them here, but to arm them is just plain crazy. I suppose the NRA will defend their right to own guns.

[Rookies]

The left seems to have more sympathy for this demon than they do for his victims,and are falling all over themselves making excuses.Revolting.

BULLSHIT! Not this person, normally on the Left. Unless the individuals are heinous persons themslves (Nazis, Klansmen of certain eras, etc.), I am always on the side of the victims. And, I always believe that those responsible should receieve a short trial followed ny the end of their miserable lives.

With Hassan, I don't believe that he set out to be a de facto terrorist, but he sure as hell morphed into one. I don't believe that was an issue of his Muslim background, more of his rank AND being Muslim. And while you might think the U.S. military would have the resources to provide close surveillance of people who say and do odd things internally, apparently not. And, as I mentioned in another thread, it is extraordinarily difficult to cherry pick the one murderous nutter out of a thousand nutters.

Bigger question posed here ? Should Muslims serve ? Should the Jews expelled from Nazi Germany have served ? I don't think it's possible to draw that religious line in the sand as I'm sure there are many Muslim men and women serving bravely in both Iraq & Afghanistan right now.

[Bochall]

Anyone for a PUBLIC waterboarding??? Put my check in the 'YES' box.

[Robert Goren]

I am not normally in favor waterboarding , but I would make an exception for the gun dealer who sold him the guns in order to find out which other Muslims he sold to. I just find it hard to believe that anyone would sell a gun to a Muslim and not be in on it.:mad:

[JustRalph]

I am not normally in favor waterboarding , but I would make an exception for the gun dealer who sold him the guns in order to find out which other Muslims he sold to. I just find it hard to believe that anyone would sell a gun to a Muslim and not be in on it.:mad:


I hope you are being sarcastic...........if not........you are so far out of bounds and off the reservation you can't be found.

[Robert Goren]

There has been a lot anti-Muslim comment here. Several posters have implied that we are at war with all of them. I am not quite sure I totally agree with that. But we are at war with a large number of them. Why take the chance? It just makes no sense.

[PaceAdvantage]

There has been a lot anti-Muslim comment here.Yeah...only here...:rolleyes:

[bigmack]

It's just a darn shame he is Muslim. Then again, it gives 'Righties' something to get riled up about. :D

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/899.jpg

[cj's dad]

Nidal Malik Hasan

Barack Hussein Obama

mmm mmm mmm

[ddog]

sword of justice time.
head on a platter -- send it to his mooslim buds.

would make a nice prime time special.

[boxcar]

It's just a darn shame he is Muslim. Then again, it gives 'Righties' something to get riled up about. :D

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/899.jpg

So, the real tragedy isn't to be found in the 13 dead victims or the 30 wounded. The real tragedy is that this whackjob is a Muslim. And the reason this is such a tragedy is because this fact is going to irritate right wingers?

Do you notice a trend here? To the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the real tragedy would be the death of diversity in the military because this, somehow, is the great strength of the military. All the dead were of secondary importance to him by comparison.

We are truly living in a mad, mad world.

Boxcar

[ddog]

I would offer NINA and EVAN a free trip over to Somalia, there I will take them to a place where they can commune with their poor put upon mooslim brothers.

Their heads are not doing anything anyway.

:D

[BlueShoe]

Poor Killeen Texas,it will go down in history as the location of not one but two mass killings.In October of 1991 a deranged man drove a pickup truck through the front window of Lubys Cafeteria and proceded to kill 23 and wound another 20 before killing himself.This event is recalled vividly by myself and many others,and now this additional horrible thing adds to this towns past.

[OTM Al]

Something to think about before making sweeping conclusions

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/11/10/2009-11-10_a_love_of_country_that_transcends_religious_dif ferences.html

[bigmack]

Something to think about before making sweeping conclusions
Come on Al, you're not dealing with simpletons here.

This is about signs and the idiocy of PC life.

The Army psychiatrist suspected of killing 13 people at Fort Hood reportedly warned senior Army physicians in 2007 that the military should allow Muslim soldiers to be released as conscientious objectors instead of fighting in wars to avoid "adverse events."

Instead, Hasan lectured his supervisors and two dozen mental health staff members on Islam, homicide bombings and threats the military could encounter from Muslims conflicted about fighting against other Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan.

A source who attended the presentation told the paper, "It was really strange. The senior doctors looked really upset."

The Powerpoint, entitled, "The Koranic World View As It Relates to Muslims in the U.S. Military," consisted of 50 slides, according to a copy obtained by the Post.

"It's getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims," Hasan said in the presentation.


Under a slide titled "Comments," he wrote: "If Muslim groups can convince Muslims that they are fighting for God against injustices of the 'infidels'; ie: enemies of Islam, then Muslims can become a potent adversary ie: suicide bombing, etc."

The last bullet point on that page reads simply: "We love death more then [sic] you love life!"


"The issue here is that there's a political correctness climate in the military. They don't want to say anything because it would be considered questioning somebody's religious belief, or they're afraid of an equal opportunity lawsuit.

"I want to be clear that this wasn't about anyone questioning his religious views. It is different when you are a civilian than when you are a military officer," said Finnell, who is a physician at the Los Angeles Air Force Base.

"When you are in the military and you start making comments that are seditious, when you say you believe something other than your oath of office — someone needed to say why is this guy saying this stuff.

"He was a lightning rod. He made his views known and he was very vocal, he had extremely radical jihadist views," Finnell said. "When you're a military officer you take an oath to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic.

"They should've confronted him — our professors, officers — but they were too concerned about being politically correct."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573547,00.html

[OTM Al]

Yes, it is. However, I'm speaking to those who feel Muslims have no place in our military or our country. So in fact, I am dealing with some simpletons.

Anyone behaving the way this man was should have been removed, whether he be white, black, brown, Jew, Christian or Buddhist. Hard questions need to be asked and pawning it off on PC is an excuse, not an answer. That is saying that someone didn't feel the paperwork was worth the effort to do something about what was happening or to get this guy the help he clearly needed when it could have made a difference.

[Tom]

Fear not, Janet Napolitano is over there apologizing to the muslim world today, assuring them that the administratoin's first priority is not to protect our soldier and to investigate this, but to ensure no muslim reprecussions.

Like that wave of vilonce against muslims after 91-- when thousand of innocent people were slaughtered. Rememer the violence corss country, the mosques buring, the.......oh, wait, that never happened.

[bigmack]

That is saying that someone didn't feel the paperwork was worth the effort to do something about what was happening or to get this guy the help he clearly needed when it could have made a difference.
It's more about tippy toeing around issues even when someone is exhibiting disturbing behavior. Those who saw his behavior and did nothing run parallel to you posting some silly article about Muslims in the military and saying "come on now, let's not judge everyone based on their faith".

[dartman51]

Yes, it is. However, I'm speaking to those who feel Muslims have no place in our military or our country. So in fact, I am dealing with some simpletons.

Anyone behaving the way this man was should have been removed, whether he be white, black, brown, Jew, Christian or Buddhist. Hard questions need to be asked and pawning it off on PC is an excuse, not an answer. That is saying that someone didn't feel the paperwork was worth the effort to do something about what was happening or to get this guy the help he clearly needed when it could have made a difference.

What kind of HELP, do you feel he needed?? More GUNS?? Maybe an assistant, to help him reload?? :confused:

[ArlJim78]

they didn't connect the dots, now we've had the first jihad attack on American soil since 9/11.

maybe the FBI was too busy working on their Muslim outreach and protection program as outlined by Holder below. When the attorney general basically says "back off", and when they start prosecuting people in the intelligence service after the fact, it's no wonder nobody said anything about this guy. Why would you take the risk and be accused of violating someones civil rights?
__________________________________________________ __
Thursday, June 4, 2009

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder released the following statement relating to President Obama’s historic speech today in Cairo, Egypt:

“The President’s pledge for a new beginning between the United States and the Muslim community takes root here in the Justice Department where we are committed to using criminal and civil rights laws to protect Muslim Americans. A top priority of this Justice Department is a return to robust civil rights enforcement and outreach in defending religious freedoms and other fundamental rights of all of our fellow citizens in the workplace, in the housing market, in our schools and in the voting booth.

“There are those who will continue to want to divide by fear – to pit our national security against our civil liberties – but that is a false choice. We have a solemn responsibility to protect our people while we also protect our principles.”

[dartman51]

Yes, it is. However, I'm speaking to those who feel Muslims have no place in our military or our country. So in fact, I am dealing with some simpletons.

Anyone behaving the way this man was should have been removed, whether he be white, black, brown, Jew, Christian or Buddhist. Hard questions need to be asked and pawning it off on PC is an excuse, not an answer. That is saying that someone didn't feel the paperwork was worth the effort to do something about what was happening or to get this guy the help he clearly needed when it could have made a difference.

The ONLY SIMPLETONS here, are the ones who refuse to WAKE UP and look at what's happening in the REAL world. The SIMPLETONS, are the ones who made it against the law to pray in school, and those SAME SIMPLETONS, say we must respect the Muslim religion, and allow their children the time, and a place to have their daily prayer, IN SCHOOL. Do you think that is right??? If not, WHY are you not speaking out against it?? :confused:

[bigmack]

Chris Matthews sums up much of the sentiment of the media. Get a load of this guy in these audio clips.

http://newsbusters.org/static/2009/11/Matthews1.mp3

http://newsbusters.org/static/2009/11/Matthews2.mp3

We can't call him a shooter until after a trial??

That's Not a Crime to Call al Qaeda, Is It??

[ddog]

Keep this on point:

it has nothing to do with prayer in schools.

I don't want public schools to be leading or condoning prayer be it prayer to Obama or Osama or Budda---NOTHING.

THe child can still pray AT anytime , no LAW can stop that.(yet).


This is about Muslims in the service , not the country and yes not all Muslims are evil bomb throwers.

BUT-BUT- when WE are in Muslim/arab countries and we are killing their kind, well you don't have to be real smart to understand blowback on some. Hell , we may have wiped out the hut they came from or killed off people they knew there.

As to Muslims getting CO status, the mil should reach out to them and offer them a way out. It's in OUR best interests. Keeping a few dozen in service is not worth the risks. No way.

Yeah, I know you could take this out to Mormons, Catholics, whatever.

In my opinion, taking that line is the bad PC aspect and non-thinking knuckle dragging that many claim to see in the Muslim angle.

There IS A REAL WORLD OUT THERE and YOU BETTER ADJUST TO IT.

Reality BITES and HARD.


P.S. I may catch hell for this , but too bad-- but Muslims in the MIL ,WILL NOT MISS the crusade type feelings and statements inside.

It is big inside. Don't bother to deny, i know better.

The "leaders" can mouth all the the correct things and legalese they want , but as usual on the ground it is what it is.

P.P.S. mil diversity is not a good in and of itself. Never will be never had been.

[Robert Goren]

The ONLY SIMPLETONS here, are the ones who refuse to WAKE UP and look at what's happening in the REAL world. The SIMPLETONS, are the ones who made it against the law to pray in school, and those SAME SIMPLETONS, say we must respect the Muslim religion, and allow their children the time, and a place to have their daily prayer, IN SCHOOL. Do you think that is right??? If not, WHY are you not speaking out against it?? :confused:You forgot the SIMPLETONS who think it is ok to sell guns to these people. :bang:

[Greyfox]

Yes, it is. Anyone behaving the way this man was should have been removed, whether he be white, black, brown, Jew, Christian or Buddhist.

BINGO. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: There can be no excuse as to why he wasn't given the boot.

[boxcar]

Yes, it is. However, I'm speaking to those who feel Muslims have no place in our military or our country. So in fact, I am dealing with some simpletons.

Anyone behaving the way this man was should have been removed, whether he be white, black, brown, Jew, Christian or Buddhist. Hard questions need to be asked and pawning it off on PC is an excuse, not an answer. That is saying that someone didn't feel the paperwork was worth the effort to do something about what was happening or to get this guy the help he clearly needed when it could have made a difference.

What part of Hasan's following remarks don't you understand?

"It's getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims," Hasan said in the presentation.

Before calling any of us Pots black, Mr. Kettle, it might be a good idea to get your own blindness to the facts checked out. When a Muslim tells us that it's getting more and more difficult to serve in the U.S. military in the world in which we presently find ourselves, then what would compel you to not take his sentiments to heart? If a Muslim's first allegiance is to his god Allah, then what would compel you to think that he's equipped to serve in the U.S. Military when the military demands first allegiance? You don't see a potential conflict here -- at minimum!? Or do you think having diverse allegiances strengthens the military? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[ddog]

What part of Hasan's following remarks don't you understand?

"It's getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims," Hasan said in the presentation.

Before calling any of us Pots black, Mr. Kettle, it might be a good idea to get your own blindness to the facts checked out. When a Muslim tells us that it's getting more and more difficult to serve in the U.S. military in the world in which we presently find ourselves, then what would compel you to not take his sentiments to heart? If a Muslim's first allegiance is to his god Allah, then what would compel you to think that he's equipped to serve in the U.S. Military when the military demands first allegiance? You don't see a potential conflict here -- at minimum!? Or do you think having diverse allegiances strengthens the military? :rolleyes:

Boxcar



God - country - corps????

If one reverses this or changes the order that's how you end up with Hitlers and Mao in the medium run. You don't want this order to change.




That's why it's not good to have Muslims in. Sorry, it's just not a rational idea.

[dartman51]

Keep this on point:

it has nothing to do with prayer in schools.

I don't want public schools to be leading or condoning prayer be it prayer to Obama or Osama or Budda---NOTHING.

THe child can still pray AT anytime , no LAW can stop that.(yet).


This is about Muslims in the service , not the country and yes not all Muslims are evil bomb throwers.

BUT-BUT- when WE are in Muslim/arab countries and we are killing their kind, well you don't have to be real smart to understand blowback on some. Hell , we may have wiped out the hut they came from or killed off people they knew there.

As to Muslims getting CO status, the mil should reach out to them and offer them a way out. It's in OUR best interests. Keeping a few dozen in service is not worth the risks. No way.

Yeah, I know you could take this out to Mormons, Catholics, whatever.

In my opinion, taking that line is the bad PC aspect and non-thinking knuckle dragging that many claim to see in the Muslim angle.

There IS A REAL WORLD OUT THERE and YOU BETTER ADJUST TO IT.

Reality BITES and HARD.


P.S. I may catch hell for this , but too bad-- but Muslims in the MIL ,WILL NOT MISS the crusade type feelings and statements inside.

It is big inside. Don't bother to deny, i know better.

The "leaders" can mouth all the the correct things and legalese they want , but as usual on the ground it is what it is.

P.P.S. mil diversity is not a good in and of itself. Never will be never had been.

WRONG!! It's about POLITICAL CORRECTNESS run amuck. And WRONG again, as children CAN NOT pray anyewhere they want. Get your FACTS straight before you start correcting someone. In the Nashville Davidson County schools, the Muslim children MUST be given the OPPORTUNITY, and a PLACE to have daily prayer. NO SUCH CONCESSIONS are made for Christians. Like I said, It's POLITICAL CORRECTNESS run amuck. That's why no one said anything about this guy, even when he was outspoken against the US. We can't seem intollerant. We have to wait till he kills someone, and then sit around and wring our hands and say, GEE......I guess he was serious. :bang:

[dartman51]

You forgot the SIMPLETONS who think it is ok to sell guns to these people. :bang:

Typical......It' the SIMPLETONS, that actually believe that guns kill people. GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE!!! PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!!! This guy was in the military, I don't think he would have a problem getting a gun. :bang:

[boxcar]

Typical......It' the SIMPLETONS, that actually believe that guns kill people. GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE!!! PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!!! This guy was in the military, I don't think he would have a problem getting a gun. :bang:

One way the U.S. government could distract us very quickly from this tragedy is by assigning undue importance to Hasan having a weapon. I would not be that surprised to see this Congress use this event to try to rush another bill through for more stringent gun controls. After all, to this administration, it would be downright "sinful" to waste a good tragedy.

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

Typical......It' the SIMPLETONS, that actually believe that guns kill people. GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE!!! PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!!! This guy was in the military, I don't think he would have a problem getting a gun. :bang: The guns he used were privately purchased. The place where he bought them has been widely reported. If he had access to military weapons why did he buy them from a gun store. I still want to know why anyone would sell guns this guy. It could not end well. I know the answer I will get will be another BUMPER STICKER.:bang:

[Robert Goren]

One way the U.S. government could distract us very quickly from this tragedy is by assigning undue importance to Hasan having a weapon. I would not be that surprised to see this Congress use this event to try to rush another bill through for more stringent gun controls. After all, to this administration, it would be downright "sinful" to waste a good tragedy.

Boxcar So I take you think it is ok for this guy to have guns. How about a bomb? I used to hunt (I can't do the walking anymore) and still own a rifle and a shot gun, but I don't think we need to arm our enemies.

[boxcar]

The guns he used were privately purchased. The place where he bought them has been widely reported. If he had access to military weapons why did he buy them from a gun store. I still want to know why anyone would sell guns this guy. It could not end well. I know the answer I will get will be another BUMPER STICKER.:bang:

So, what are you saying? Did the gun dealer break any laws selling this guy guns? If not, then what would the dealer's legal grounds be for refusing the sale?

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

So, what are you saying? Did the gun dealer break any laws selling this guy guns? If not, then what would the dealer's legal grounds be for refusing the sale?

Boxcar Oh, another defender of Muslim rights.

[Show Me the Wire]

He had a uniform and a weapon for the same reason as Benedict Arnold, nobody knew he was a traitor to his country.

[Tom]

Defender of everyone's rights. That was a very cheap shot comment.

[boxcar]

Oh, another defender of Muslim rights.

Let's say, you're right for a moment. Is there a law prohibiting this attitude?

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

I suppose next you are going claim he needed them for duck hunting. Come let get real here. There only reason a Muslim would be buying guns.

[Show Me the Wire]

I suppose next you are going claim he needed them for duck hunting. Come let get real here. There only reason a Muslim would be buying guns.

Could be for lots of reasons such as a honor killings and not just for treason like you imply. :eek:

[ArlJim78]

Could be for lots of reasons such as a honor killings and not just for treason like you imply. :eek:
for the honor killings they don't necessarily need a gun though. sometimes they use a car and run them over, or other times a knife is used for decapitation.

[exactaplayer]

10 Suicides a Month at Ft. Hood -- War Stress Is Taking Soldiers to the Brink

[Greyfox]

The more we learn about this creep the more it is looking like an act of Terrorism. He was on a jihad. War Stress and PTSD are not contributors.

[Tom]

Obama's government has a lot of questions to answer - how did they allow this to happen, and allow it they did. No debate on this.

[46zilzal]

10 Suicides a Month at Ft. Hood -- War Stress Is Taking Soldiers to the Brink
There is an awful "undiagnosed" potential for this to happen again when stress slowly and surely eats through rational control mechanisms in the patient's logic circuits

[Show Me the Wire]

for the honor killings they don't necessarily need a gun though. sometimes they use a car and run them over, or other times a knife is used for decapitation.

True. However, you cannot assume it will be only used for terrorism as Robert Goren implies.

Also, I do not wnat to be accused of denying muslims the right to choose the type of weapon they need to practice their religion.

Please no posts about honor killings being a cultural event and not religious event. Islam is practiced in a wide variety of cultures and and yet muslims in all these varying cultures practice honor killings. The only connection to honor killings from culture to culture is Islam.

[ddog]

WRONG!! It's about POLITICAL CORRECTNESS run amuck. And WRONG again, as children CAN NOT pray anyewhere they want. Get your FACTS straight before you start correcting someone. In the Nashville Davidson County schools, the Muslim children MUST be given the OPPORTUNITY, and a PLACE to have daily prayer. NO SUCH CONCESSIONS are made for Christians. Like I said, It's POLITICAL CORRECTNESS run amuck. That's why no one said anything about this guy, even when he was outspoken against the US. We can't seem intollerant. We have to wait till he kills someone, and then sit around and wring our hands and say, GEE......I guess he was serious. :bang:


My facts are straight and you are out of your mind.
I actually have no issue with a Muslim being provided "A place" to go to pray.

The normal Christian child (at least the hundreds I know of) do not need to face any certain direction and certainly don't need a special mat to kneel.

Any Christian kid can at this moment in time pray in a school or anywhere else for that matter.

You need to not only get that fact straight but try to become a thinking being before YOU lash about as those other fanatics do.


As long as a pllace is provided and it's not school or class based prayer time, i really don't care if they provide a place for any type of person to go to pray.

That's not politcal correctness, just routine understanding , however hard that is for you.

Try it.

[Show Me the Wire]

My facts are straight and you are out of your mind.
I actually have no issue with a Muslim being provided "A place" to go to pray.

The normal Christian child (at least the hundreds I know of) do not need to face any certain direction and certainly don't need a special mat to kneel.

Any Christian kid can at this moment in time pray in a school or anywhere else for that matter.

You need to not only get that fact straight but try to become a thinking being before YOU lash about as those other fanatics do.


As long as a pllace is provided and it's not school or class based prayer time, i really don't care if they provide a place for any type of person to go to pray.

That's not politcal correctness, just routine understanding , however hard that is for you.

Try it.

It is a violation of separation of Church and state, plain and simple. The government is endorsing a religion by allowing students to take time away from class (public education) to pray at specific times to a specific divinity. It is sending the message to other students the school/governement approves this activity and it is more important than sitting in class and learning a secular subject.

[Robert Goren]

Obama's government has a lot of questions to answer - how did they allow this to happen, and allow it they did. No debate on this.Agreed. Of course I still waiting for Bush's answers on 911 and Clinton's on Oklahoma City, so I am not holding my breath.

[Robert Goren]

School prayer is hot button issue for many in this country. I know people who think that teachers should lead their students in the Lord's Prayer. When I was in 1st and 2nd grade( 1950s) my teacher did just that. I don't see how you can allow one and not the other.

[cj's dad]

I just read BHO's Ft. Hood speech posted at WashingtonPost.com and in a speech of roughly 2000 words I found that the word terrorism was not used one time.

Oh wait, if he uses that word he would be admitting that this was the first terrorist act on US soil since 9/11 - my bad !!

[PaceAdvantage]

10 Suicides a Month at Ft. Hood -- War Stress Is Taking Soldiers to the BrinkAfter what just happened, maybe we ought to check again and make sure these are actual suicides....

[JustRalph]

10 Suicides a Month at Ft. Hood -- War Stress Is Taking Soldiers to the Brink


can you substantiate that claim? ten a month at Ft Hood?

[JustRalph]

I bet a whole lot more Christians are sold Guns every month in Texas. And I don't see them going out a killing in the name of their religion.........

I would say the Muslims don't have a lock on that........but they damn sure are the chief purveyors of such an act

It's not the gun........it's the hand the gun is in. Plain and simple.......the old Rosie O'Donnell line................

do you blame Rosie's spoon?

[bigmack]

can you substantiate that claim? ten a month at Ft Hood?
Substantiate? He got it from the usuals. DailyKos, DemocraticUnderground, Huffington, WashingtonPeaceCenter, alternet.org. They all have extensive threads to that effect.

Truth be told:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/11_10_09_16_57_31.png

[Greyfox]

Obviously not 10 a month. Try 1 a month.

[JustRalph]

The WHO says that the United States has 17-20 suicides per 100,000

persons a year......depending on what recent year you look at.

Ft Hood has 60-70K assigned............. sounds like a normal United States city to me. Maybe even less than normal.......

[bigmack]

The WHO says that the United States has 17-20 suicides per 100,000
That fig is from '03. It's more like 11.

Top 10 States of Suicide per 100M

Alaska: 23.1
Nevada: 19
New Mexico: 18.8
Montana: 18.7
Wyoming: 17.6
Idaho: 17.5
Utah: 17.1
Colorado: 17.1
Arizona: 15.6
West Virginia: 15.4

[exactaplayer]

can you substantiate that claim? ten a month at Ft Hood?
No i cannot and I apologize for the mistake. My bad :blush:

[Greyfox]

No i cannot and I apologize for the mistake. My bad :blush:
Fair enough. That's why pencils have erasers. :ThmbUp:

[dartman51]

This guy has it NAILED!

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/11/11/lorne-gunter-fort-hood-and-cultural-suicide.aspx

[Greyfox]

This guy has it NAILED!

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/11/11/lorne-gunter-fort-hood-and-cultural-suicide.aspx

Thank you. An excellent article.
Gunter says, what I said a few posts back re: this being terrorism:

But even if Hasan was driven to mass murder because he could not bear the idea of serving in a war zone, the cause of his breakdown was his Muslim-ness, not battle stress.

[bigmack]

This guy has it NAILED!
Top notch piece.

It is one thing to be tolerant of others’ views and beliefs, so long as those others are respectful of your creed and ideology in return. That has long been a hallmark of our pluralistic democracies. It is still. ...tolerance is and always has been at its greatest in the West.

The trouble with political correctness is that it doesn’t require that others be respectful in return.

When others with different beliefs attack us, political correctness goes further. It takes tolerance to a culturally suicidal degree by denying that others hate us despite our respect for them.

[PaceAdvantage]

Bingo:

Imagine if a fundamentalist Christian soldier had shot up a room full of unarmed Muslims while shouting “Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour.” Imagine he had a fascination with Old Testament stories of how God smite his followers’ enemies. His pastor had advocated a new crusade to rid the Holy Land of non-Christians. He had hung out at a survivalist camp for a cultish group of white supremacists who claim a Heaven-sent mission.

These self-same commentators who are struggling so mightily now to overlook the religious aspects of Hasan’s crime would be first in line to insist that Evangelical Christianity was inherently violent and demand something be done to rein in this hateful theology.

This hypocrisy among the chattering classes, though, is to be expected. Denial of the obvious in the name of tolerance is in their blood by now.

What is more dangerous is the extent to which political correctness has infected institutions that should know better, such as the U.S. Army. In the week since Hasan killed 13, American military spokesmen have spent most their time admonishing their fellow countrymen not to take revenge on Muslim Americans, as if there were large mobs gathering with torches and pitchforks.

[boxcar]

Yupper, he nailed is squarely. Who was that cable news person who essentially said the real tragedy here is that this guy is a Muslim? What he was really saying was that the real tragedy was that he wasn't a Christian or even a Jew.
Either one of these, and the MM would have hung up either of them and quartered them by now. You wouldn't have heard so much as a whimper about PTSD, stress or any other inane excuses being offered in their defense. The MM would have tried the person in the press and found him guilty on the spot. End of story.

Boxcar

[Sailwolf]

This guy has it NAILED!

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/11/11/lorne-gunter-fort-hood-and-cultural-suicide.aspx


Yeah we can do what this guy did.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1050707.ece

[boxcar]

Yeah we can do what this guy did.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1050707.ece

Has the WH come out yet and called the Marine a domestic terrorist? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[bigmack]

Yeah we can do what this guy did.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1050707.ece
Usually in circumstances like these people post these sorts of things and then scamper off. Would you like to explore the correlation of what you posted & how it has to do with someone applauding a well written piece?

[Tom]

Sucks not to speak English.



Scamper off: 8-5

[PaceAdvantage]

Usually in circumstances like these people post these sorts of things and then scamper off. Would you like to explore the correlation of what you posted & how it has to do with someone applauding a well written piece?There will be no explanation, because there is no explanation...