H1N1 Vacine

[Tom]

Should we get vaccinated?
Is it safe? Any fears about it being rushed?


Do we need to convince the masses that it is safe?

[boxcar]

Should we get vaccinated?
Is it safe? Any fears about it being rushed?


Do we need to convince the masses that it is safe?

Has this vaccine been tested thoroughly by the FDA? Or are all the guinea pigs?
I don't see any evidence where it has been tested properly.

Another big concern I have is that this flu could present another golden opportunity for BO to manufacture a national crisis. For example, anyone who now comes down with a case of flu could automatically be statistically tagged with having HN1, apart from the required test to actually verify the claim. Inflated numbers would create fear and panic in the public, etc.

Boxcar

[headhawg]

My wife works in a hospital. She told me that the vaccine contains mercury. I don't think that I would recommend getting it unless you are in a high-risk category. I know that some workplaces are mandating vaccination. I see some lawsuits coming.

[ArlJim78]

No vaccine for me, I don't trust that they know what they're doing. I'll take my chances with the flu.

[boxcar]

No vaccine for me, I don't trust that they know what they're doing. I'll take my chances with the flu.

You DON'T TRUST the government!? :eek: :eek: :eek: You ain't a team player, are ya? :D

Boxcar

[Tom]

We were promised 127 million doses would be here by now, but we only have around 12 million. What went wrong? Typical government screw up trying to run a health care program on a small scale (:rolleyes:)or something else that we have not been told?

I am very leery.

[lamboguy]

You DON'T TRUST the government!? :eek: :eek: :eek: You ain't a team player, are ya? :D

Boxcarin massachusetts if you refuse the vacination they put you in jail. they gonna have to catch me cause i ain't letting them stick me with their bad needles.

[cj's dad]

If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck it must be a ....

Can you say "HOAX"

Strange how this situation arises during the "health care" debate !!

Saturday the H1N1 "epidemic" was declared a "National Emergency" by BHO, which gives the gov't (BO) 400+ additional powers.

If there is a true emergency in this country, why are things continuing as normal? Schools are open, no public events have been cancelled although there is a severe shortage of the "vaccine".

BO's daughters have not been vaccinated !!! What !!

[46zilzal]

My wife works in a hospital. She told me that the vaccine contains mercury. I don't think that I would recommend getting it unless you are in a high-risk category. I know that some workplaces are mandating vaccination. I see some lawsuits coming.
THIOMERISOL is not Mecury per se and has been around for years and years. ANYTIME you get a local anesthetics (Lidocaine for example) you have taken thiomerisol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal

[jballscalls]

my dr. told me that people are overreacting and that the h1n1 is really much less severe than the actual normal flu that you get a shot for.

[46zilzal]

my dr. told me that people are overreacting and that the h1n1 is really much less severe than the actual normal flu that you get a shot for.
Also, anyone around before the big flu epidemics of the mid 50's has residual immunity from a similar strain.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19814966

[Tom]

What year was that, 46?
Maybe I'm covered!

[boxcar]

in massachusetts if you refuse the vacination they put you in jail. they gonna have to catch me cause i ain't letting them stick me with their bad needles.

That makes two us. Hey, if you need a place to hide out, come down to Florida. I know the swamps like the back of my hand, plus I'm on good terms with the 'gators. :jump: :jump:

Boxcar

[boxcar]

What year was that, 46?
Maybe I'm covered!

Nothing like free insurance. :D

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

If you are over 50 and don't work with kids or don't work in the health industry, you can pass for now. otherwise get it. It has hit hard in the western Nebraska with several schools closed. 2 children have died. I have not heard of anyone dying from getting the vaccine. If I had little children this would be getting 5/1 on RA. I don't get this anti science attitude that is going arround these days.

[46zilzal]

I I don't get this anti science attitude that is going around these days.
Read The Republican War on Science by Chris Mooney...He spells it out right there

[Tom]

Anti-science is not what we are talking about. Perhaps your blind faith is more like it. My friend's father had this vaccine and died less than week later. Try a better source, 46 - your Republican one is as irrelevant as you are.


http://healthandsurvival.com/2009/04/26/swine-flu-vaccine-of-1976-more-harm-than-good/

“The government wanted everyone to get vaccinated,” Ward said. “But the epidemic never really broke out. It was a threat that never materialized.”

“What did materialize were cases of a rare side effect thought to be linked to the shot. The unexpected development cut short the vaccination effort — an unprecedented national campaign — after 10 weeks.”

[boxcar]

If you are over 50 and don't work with kids or don't work in the health industry, you can pass for now. otherwise get it. It has hit hard in the western Nebraska with several schools closed. 2 children have died. I have not heard of anyone dying from getting the vaccine. If I had little children this would be getting 5/1 on RA. I don't get this anti science attitude that is going arround these days.

First off, it's not so much "anti science attitude" as it is anti-BO due to a little issue called untrustworthiness.

Meanwhile, please enlighten us with the scientific results from all the FDA testing.

Boxcar

[LottaKash]

First off, it's not so much "anti science attitude" as it is anti-BO due to a little issue called untrustworthiness.

Meanwhile, please enlighten us with the scientific results from all the FDA testing.

Boxcar

What FDA testing ?.....There is none.....The FDA is taking the "word" of the drug companies that this is safe & effective....

Imo, this is all just a big SCAM perpetrated by "big pharma", in league with the "fda"....There is no evidence that "any" vaccine will prevent any disease"....The voices of drug companies and the gov't would lead you to believe that this is untrue, but they can offer no evidence that vaccines prevent anything....

In 2004' I had my right lung removed, and after healing, they suggested that I take the Pneumonia shot, as I was a "high risk" case.....Guess what ? I got pneumonia anyway....Prior to 2004 I took the flu-shot, and I got the flu.....

F.... the FDA and Big Pharma....They do not have your best interests at heart, only their own agenda's which are; (billiions and billiions of $$$$)....The FDA, now allows the drug companies to test their own products, and the FDA takes their word for it.....Some drugs being released lately, have a side effect of "DEATH", and this is OK ?

A simple rule I go by now, "if a drug, or a shot shouldn't be administered to a "pregnant woman" than it shouldn't be adminstered"....PERIOD...!!!

Most Doctors and asute health-care workers, don't take the shot....Ask them why ?....

The "shot" is a scam....plain & simple, just like their "cancer cures" and their "cholesterol" statin-drugs....They don't cure cancer, and cholesterol doesn't cause death, (arterial paque does, they are not the same thing) and there has never been a study to prove that cholesterol kills...Cholesterol is a very vital & necessary component in our physical chemistry makeup, and our bodies produce more of it, as we age, so no wonder our cholesterol numbers are up, they are supposed to go up as we age, just like GOD intended (and, people with very low cholesterol numbers, are usually very sickly &/or close to death)...As for cancer, it you survive for 5-months after starting chemo-therapy, you are considered to be a "cancer survivor".....Some survival rate...

I survived cancer, but, not with their drugs and their "shots & drips" that "kill"....MOst of the ingredients in chemo, actually cause cancer in a petri-dish.....

We are being "scammed" by these quacks, again & again....

You can prevent or stave off most colds & flu's, as well as many other diseases by natural means, by the use of quality Vitamin D3, Vitamin-C, the best quality Beta-Glucan (NSC-24.com), Probiotics, Amino-acids, Enzymes and Exercise....

I urge all, to not fall prey to these "tricksters" & "liars".....


best,

[Robert Goren]

The method of making a vaccine by injecting dead virus cells has been proven to be effective against other flues. It is reasonably safe if you are not allergic to eggs. There is always a risk of toxic shock syndrome with any injection, but it is very small. I give myself a shot 3 times a month to help me deal with my Crohns. I know people who have injected themselves with insulin for years and have had no problems. It just seems that risk of not getting vaccinated out ways the risk of getting vaccinated if you under the age of fifty.

[PaceAdvantage]

Does EVERYTHING have to devolve into partisan politics around here? Seriously....

46, give us a break already....

[Greyfox]

If I get this flu, will I die oinking?

[46zilzal]

Does EVERYTHING have to devolve into partisan politics around here? Seriously....

46, give us a break already....
This SCIENCE of vaccinations and the reality of overlapping immunity from previous infections is what is behind MY not getting a flu shot. When I was in and out of the wards and in extended care facilities I was a potential carrier/vector. Now that is not a problem for others, so no vaccination.

The virus mutates so rapidly anyway that by the time the shot is ready the bug has changed

[CBedo]

What year was that, 46?
Maybe I'm covered!If you were born before 1957, you more than likely have a better immunity against it than those born after.

At least that's what I read last night.

[Show Me the Wire]

Tom:

With respect to our self-proclaimed doctor the real problem is the preservative in this vaccine and most others. The mercury-based preservative thimerosal is a real threat.. That is right a mercury based, substance mercury is injected into the body and this mercury has the ability to pass through the blood-brain barrier.

People are allergic to thimerosal. Thimerosal had to be removed from soft contact lens solutions, due to the severe and sizable allergic reactions by its users.

Science knows mercury is a fatal substance when ingested and an environmental hazard, yet the governemnt allows drug manufactures to use a mercury based additive to be injected into the body, which passes the blood-brain barrier. Go figure.

Baed on past personal experience with thimerosal, I will not recieve any innoculation containing this toxic mercury based preservative.

p.s. the nano- bots that are on the tips of the syringes are another matter :eek:

[baldvin]

Does EVERYTHING have to devolve into partisan politics around here? Seriously....46, give us a break already....
Ha haha. you funny guy. haha ha.

I got vacine in Vegas (BABy!) Lot of sick people in cabs. If vacine kill me then Idie.

No more Baldvin. (too BAD!)

[46zilzal]

Another BIG danger Mercurochrome!!

The newer preservative is methyl paraben but that is not wihtout allergic properties. This is an unopened bottle of Lidocaine (15) with epinephrine

[46zilzal]

Methyl paraben in the longer acting local bupivacaine as well

[JWBurnie]

I'm pretty sure I had the H1N1 but never went to the doctor (Northern VA). It lasted 10-12 days. Horrible soar throat, cough, fever, worn down, feel good one minute awful the next. I'm 33 and can't remember ever being sick more then 4 or 5 days (previously, never had the flu). I've never had a flu shot and don't ever plan to.



Regular Flu Shot, no side affects...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR5p_bD3uLc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR5p_bD3uLc)

Sad.

[so.cal.fan]

I had a very bad case of flu in the early 1950's. I remember my parents had a doctor come to our house to treat me.

Then I had a very bad case in 1988.


I'm going to take a chance I have an immunity now.

[Valuist]

Until Dutrow gives his blessing to the H1N1 vaccine, I'll wait on the sidelines.

[LottaKash]

Until Dutrow gives his blessing to the H1N1 vaccine, I'll wait on the sidelines.

Quip of the day.....:jump: :jump: :jump:

best,

[Tom]

Uh oh....a NEW flu threat!

[ddog]

What FDA testing ?.....There is none.....The FDA is taking the "word" of the drug companies that this is safe & effective....

Imo, this is all just a big SCAM perpetrated by "big pharma", in league with the "fda"....There is no evidence that "any" vaccine will prevent any disease"....The voices of drug companies and the gov't would lead you to believe that this is untrue, but they can offer no evidence that vaccines prevent anything....

In 2004' I had my right lung removed, and after healing, they suggested that I take the Pneumonia shot, as I was a "high risk" case.....Guess what ? I got pneumonia anyway....Prior to 2004 I took the flu-shot, and I got the flu.....

F.... the FDA and Big Pharma....They do not have your best interests at heart, only their own agenda's which are; (billiions and billiions of $$$$)....The FDA, now allows the drug companies to test their own products, and the FDA takes their word for it.....Some drugs being released lately, have a side effect of "DEATH", and this is OK ?

A simple rule I go by now, "if a drug, or a shot shouldn't be administered to a "pregnant woman" than it shouldn't be adminstered"....PERIOD...!!!

Most Doctors and asute health-care workers, don't take the shot....Ask them why ?....

The "shot" is a scam....plain & simple, just like their "cancer cures" and their "cholesterol" statin-drugs....They don't cure cancer, and cholesterol doesn't cause death, (arterial paque does, they are not the same thing) and there has never been a study to prove that cholesterol kills...Cholesterol is a very vital & necessary component in our physical chemistry makeup, and our bodies produce more of it, as we age, so no wonder our cholesterol numbers are up, they are supposed to go up as we age, just like GOD intended (and, people with very low cholesterol numbers, are usually very sickly &/or close to death)...As for cancer, it you survive for 5-months after starting chemo-therapy, you are considered to be a "cancer survivor".....Some survival rate...

I survived cancer, but, not with their drugs and their "shots & drips" that "kill"....MOst of the ingredients in chemo, actually cause cancer in a petri-dish.....

We are being "scammed" by these quacks, again & again....

You can prevent or stave off most colds & flu's, as well as many other diseases by natural means, by the use of quality Vitamin D3, Vitamin-C, the best quality Beta-Glucan (NSC-24.com), Probiotics, Amino-acids, Enzymes and Exercise....

I urge all, to not fall prey to these "tricksters" & "liars".....


best,



Very wise advice and from the horse's mouth no less.

Best of health to you.

[DJofSD]

Also, anyone around before the big flu epidemics of the mid 50's has residual immunity from a similar strain.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19814966
zz, set me straight: I had read that only people born before 1950 -- not the ambigous 1950's -- had been exposed to a flu virus that might offer some degree of imunity.

Is that correct or did I misunderstand what I read?

[boxcar]

What FDA testing ?.....There is none.....The FDA is taking the "word" of the drug companies that this is safe & effective....

Imo, this is all just a big SCAM perpetrated by "big pharma", in league with the "fda"....There is no evidence that "any" vaccine will prevent any disease"....The voices of drug companies and the gov't would lead you to believe that this is untrue, but they can offer no evidence that vaccines prevent anything....

In 2004' I had my right lung removed, and after healing, they suggested that I take the Pneumonia shot, as I was a "high risk" case.....Guess what ? I got pneumonia anyway....Prior to 2004 I took the flu-shot, and I got the flu.....

F.... the FDA and Big Pharma....They do not have your best interests at heart, only their own agenda's which are; (billiions and billiions of $$$$)....The FDA, now allows the drug companies to test their own products, and the FDA takes their word for it.....Some drugs being released lately, have a side effect of "DEATH", and this is OK ?

A simple rule I go by now, "if a drug, or a shot shouldn't be administered to a "pregnant woman" than it shouldn't be adminstered"....PERIOD...!!!

Most Doctors and asute health-care workers, don't take the shot....Ask them why ?....

The "shot" is a scam....plain & simple, just like their "cancer cures" and their "cholesterol" statin-drugs....They don't cure cancer, and cholesterol doesn't cause death, (arterial paque does, they are not the same thing) and there has never been a study to prove that cholesterol kills...Cholesterol is a very vital & necessary component in our physical chemistry makeup, and our bodies produce more of it, as we age, so no wonder our cholesterol numbers are up, they are supposed to go up as we age, just like GOD intended (and, people with very low cholesterol numbers, are usually very sickly &/or close to death)...As for cancer, it you survive for 5-months after starting chemo-therapy, you are considered to be a "cancer survivor".....Some survival rate...

I survived cancer, but, not with their drugs and their "shots & drips" that "kill"....MOst of the ingredients in chemo, actually cause cancer in a petri-dish.....

We are being "scammed" by these quacks, again & again....

You can prevent or stave off most colds & flu's, as well as many other diseases by natural means, by the use of quality Vitamin D3, Vitamin-C, the best quality Beta-Glucan (NSC-24.com), Probiotics, Amino-acids, Enzymes and Exercise....

I urge all, to not fall prey to these "tricksters" & "liars".....


best,

With few exceptions, such as trauma medicine, Western Medicine is a sham because its specialty is treating symptoms, which is absurd. I can count on one hand how many times I've been to a doctor in the last 35 years or so. And most of those visits were were in the last 18 months due to a hernia I had, and which I chose to have removed because there is no other long-lasting remedy.

[DJofSD]

If I get this flu, will I die oinking?
No. Your tail will curl and you will smell like breakfast.

[chickenhead]

I got H1N1, tons of people around here have. It's the flu. You lay around and are miserable. If you get a high fever go to a doctor. Same as any other flu. That'll be $25.

-- Dr. Chickenhead

[Grits]

Wise advice, yes, maybe for some--up to a point. Still, one doesn't take to heart, internet opinion as factual medical solution. What worked for one is not a blanket answer for all.

LK, it is outstanding that you survived cancer.

Dr.Andrew Weil has written many books on the benefits of "natural medicine" and the medical community's interest is growing its research towards intergrating it into therapy protocols.

Talk is real easy, but dare I say, how many of you, if tomorrow were found with (since there are more men here) a cancerous prostate the size of an apple would ignore your physician's plan for care and rely, solely, on quality vitamins, amino acids, probiotics and exercise to shrink it back to normal size?

C'mon and step forward, 'cause again, I'm thinking talk's pretty cheap. Convinced you'd thrive and be on your merry way courtesy of nature's path?

The graveyard is full of such stubborness and ignorance. My aunt's colon cancer placing her among them . . . . for her, the miracle was gonna come via prayer.

My son at 32 has a heart condition. Its congenital, related to a hole in his heart the size of a quarter at birth, but since repaired. At 4ft.9 and 118 lbs, he's not in poor physical condition, certainly not overweight. He has to take digoxin, an extremely powerful drug, which regulates his heartbeat.

Again, vitamins and amino acids would NOT correct this problem, just as they would not correct many others. His heart would come under great stress, its function would deteriorate, and he would die without the digoxin.

Prevention and taking care of one's body is one thing.

Diagnosis and treatment is another.

Last week on the advice of his cardiologist and also, his pulmonologist he had the seasonal flu shot he gets each year. This week he had the H1N1 shot. So far, no problem with either. He's termed "high risk." Aside from his heart condition, in early June he spent several days in ICU with acute pneumonia/respiratory failure followed by 3 months on supplemental oxygen. (The pneumonia must've been a new strain, as those vaccinations come only every five years--lotta good that did, huh.)

For some of us, one size doesn't fit all and Western medicine isn't a sham as symptoms give us direction, therefore, sometimes, allowing us to live longer.

And most of us, as a general rule, take every possible avenue we can to stick around here as long as we can--most conventional, some not.

Here's to good health to you and yours. And to all who have better ideas on shucking conventional medicine and living healthier lives.

Take your vitamins, and keep check on those prostates, guys.;)

[Tom]

What a coincidence, the prostates around here charge $25, same as Chick's doctor! :eek:

[46zilzal]

With few exceptions, such as trauma Western Medicine is a sham because its specialty is treating symptoms, which is absurd. I can count on one hand how many times I've been to a doctor in the last 35 years or so. And most of those visits were were in the last 18 months due to a hernia I had, and which I chose to have removed because there is no other long-lasting remedy.
Coming from someone with LONG experience looking into chef complaints, history of the present illness, familial history, social history. Symptom complexes are what sets off inquisitive investigation, inspection and holism.

You have NO idea what you are talking about, AS USUAL

[Tom]

Coming from someone with LONG experience looking into chef complaints......

Good for you, 46. Bout time some one looked into that horrible hospital food. Good luck....

[boxcar]

Coming from someone with LONG experience looking into chef complaints, history of the present illness, familial history, social history. Symptom complexes are what sets off inquisitive investigation, inspection and holism.

You have NO idea what you are talking about, AS USUAL

You're also "LONG" on defending the status quo of Western Medicine. The problem with medicine here on this side of the big pond is that most doctors aren't inquisitive enough because they take the short, expedient and profitable route of prescribing drugs for virtually every symptom under the sun. I, too, speak from LONG experience of dealing with incompetents in the Western system. How do you think I have managed to avoid doctors all these years? I know how to get a good bead on the state of my overall health within two hours, and it's not with doctor visits!

Boxcar
P.S. Most doctors scoff at any kind of holistic approach or natural remedies. This stupid, backwards, ignorant and elitist attitude also extends into veterinary medicine! It's just the West's way.

[boxcar]

Good for you, 46. Bout time some one looked into that horrible hospital food. Good luck....

I doubt he's even qualified to do that!

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

Show me a SINGLE day you have studied or practiced medicine in the REAL world and know how it is supposed to work and then you might be qualified fro an informed observation. Until then it is all supposition and imagination from an arms length position..."filling in the void of your not understanding with melarky"

[hazzardm]

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/health-care/states-sue-amgen-kickback-plot/

The lawsuit alleges that starting in 2002, Amgen bribed medical providers with free Aranesp to motivate them to prescribe and purchase the drug. The suit claims the company then encouraged medical providers to submit false claims to Medicaid and other third parties for payment, when the drug was already available free to those same providers.

It is S.O.P. My brother has 20 years selling for big pharma, figgers he alone has provided over a millon dollars to doctors in similar cases.

[46zilzal]

Detail men are the scourge of medicine, bugging you to try their NEWEST thing and showering you with bribes.

They get old very fast since the majority of them have NO idea of the long term benefit/harm ratio ANY of their products might have.

If you care for your patients, you use medications that have been out on the market at least 15 years so you know ALL the side effects and the safety margin. I learned that the hard way when a arthritis medicine was recalled. LUCKILY none of my patients had the major side effects that prompted the recall. but many of my colleagues got caught in the Phen-Phen debacle creating untold misery with pulmonary hypertension.

[DJofSD]

Detail men are the scourge of medicine, bugging you to try their NEWEST thing and showering you with bribes.

They get old very fast since the majority of them have NO idea of the long term benefit/harm ratio ANY of their products might have.

If you care for your patients, you use medications that have been out on the market at least 15 years so you know ALL the side effects and the safety margin. I learned that the hard way when a arthritis medicine was recalled. LUCKILY none of my patients had the major side effects that prompted the recall. but many of my colleagues got caught in the Phen-Phen debacle creating untold misery with pulmonary hypertension.
I can relate to this on a personal level.

As a young boy, I had a condition with my thyroid. The only thing I remember is going to the doctor's on a regular basis and having to take some small, white pills. Eventually, probably as an 8, 9 or 10 year old, I no longer had a need to take them.

I never thought about it until my son was born. One day I remembered this and started to do some reading on the internet. What I learned shocked me.

In that day, radiation therapy was the treatment de jour. People with similar conditions as mine were being treated with little boxes around their neck containing low level radioactive material. As adults they developed cancer. Very, very likely due to the irradiation from the thyroid treatment.

I thank my good old fashion general practitioner every time I think of it. God rest his soul.

[boxcar]

Show me a SINGLE day you have studied or practiced medicine in the REAL world and know how it is supposed to work and then you might be qualified fro an informed observation. Until then it is all supposition and imagination from an arms length position..."filling in the void of your not understanding with melarky"

You know...you're a real piece of work. I know from a patient's standpoint on how things are supposed to work and what has worked for me and my family.

In fact, I'll even go a step further by including my little furry loved ones -- my 9 cats. Now, one would think that taking care of 9 cats, at least according to the veterinary establishment's guidelines, that I would have spent a good sum of money in maintaining their healthy lifestyles, with annual visits, shots, vacs, etc, etc. The fact of the matter is that over the last 20 years or so, we have spent less than $3,000. on vet bills, and this includes getting our cats fixed! And a good chunk of this money was spent last year due to a rescue we made of a tiny kitten who was abused somehow. For her, we spent nearly $1,000. alone. Her problems were traumatic in nature and went beyond homeopathic or natural remedies.

This doesn't mean that we ignore our cats or aren't sensitive to changes we might notice. To the contrary! We're very much in tune with them and we see/sense when something isn't right, we know with what resources to avail ourselves when it becomes necessary.

About 15 years ago, a thoroughly establishment-type vet told us that one of our cats with a congenital heart problem would not live for more than a year or two -- and only then if we took him in for expensive treatments. To make a long story short, the cat just died about 1-1/2 years ago! From what? A heart attack. But the point is that he lived happily and had a relatively long life due to the various natural remedies we gave him for his heart over the course of those many years. So much for the vaunted opinions of mainstream vets!

And so much for your nonsense, too, about consumers having to be doctors to understand what works and doesn't work for US. This is precisely the freakin' scare tactics and medical propaganda people like yourself love to shove down the public's throats. It's no wonder at all that you're a liberal because libs think precisely the same about the public, i.e. we're just not adequately equipped to handle life! :bang: :bang: Well, you know what, zilly? Go peddle your snake oil somewhere else, 'cause I ain't buyin'! Educated and informed consumers are hard sells, ziily.

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

Until you KNOW the business and the science from the practitioners side you are only guessing, and badly at that , what actually goes on between the time the patient walks through the door initially and when they are not needed for follow up.

There are major crooks in the system. My sister used to work at a community hospital that was euphemistically called the "hospital that 10,00 uteri built" based on all the unnecessary surgery the owner did to get it.

[chickenhead]

In that day, radiation therapy was the treatment de jour. People with similar conditions as mine were being treated with little boxes around their neck containing low level radioactive material.

That is obviously scary and deplorable at a human level, but it is also mildly awesome.

[Tom]

Until you KNOW the business and the science from the practitioners side you are only guessing, and badly at that , what actually goes on between the time the patient walks through the door initially and when they are not needed for follow up.

There are major crooks in the system. My sister used to work at a community hospital that was euphemistically called the "hospital that 10,00 uteri built" based on all the unnecessary surgery the owner did to get it.

What the HELL did your sister do have such a dark cloud hanging over her? Must be karma! :lol: You seem to confuse the scientific method with your sister's penance.

[Grits]

Guys, I'm curious. Did any of you feel your government and "western medicine" was jerking you around, hustling a scam to you, when vaccines for polio and tuberculosis became available? I know several of you here are old enough to remember the epidemic ravages of both.

Did you feel those were connected to the political party in the White House at the time?

Let's exclude, of course, FDR, that most famous of democrats who contracted polio at the most opportune time. Benefitting his party, no doubt. (Didn't matter, though, that he never walked another step, it was damn good for the party.)

What means far more to me. How many of you that are chirping the loudest have children and grandchildren who are within the age range or high risk group that "yo gov'ment and bigpharma" are channeling this alleged propaganda to?

If you do, are you as paranoid and as vehement in your discussions with them and your decisions for them as you are here?

[Show Me the Wire]

Grits:

So what is your point? Influenza is totally differenent, than polio and the consumption.

[boxcar]

Grits:

So what is your point? Influenza is totally differenent, than polio and the consumption.


Not only that, but today's political environment is far more volatile and hostile.

Boxcar

[Grits]

Grits:

So what is your point? Influenza is totally differenent, than polio and the consumption.

Just noting the rampant conspiracy mindset that prevails, SMTW, though, the question I asked about children and grandchildren isn't answered. Its being dodged which, at this point, isn't surprising.

I don't feel the vaccines altogether different. A vaccine is a vaccine, same goes for an epidemic. Recall the flu of 1918 before the advent of any such vaccination, how many died with that one?

My point is--contracting any illness that is capable of causing one's own death, or the death of one's child, due to the stubborn, bound and determined decision to ignore the precautions being taken, I feel is mighty unfortunate. Particularly if that stubborness has to do with one's political leanings. Hostility and volatility included.

I'm a mother, and I'm sometimes reminded, "men are wired differently." Maybe men are not as moved by the danger of such illness as I may be.

Boxcar, political environments have nothing to do with flu epidemics, or any other epidemic. I wish you understood that. But, I don't see that coming.:lol:

[Show Me the Wire]

What is worse, injecting mercury into the bloodstream or lettting natural immunity develop?

I believe injecting a known toxin, like mercury into the body should be avoided.

The concept of a vaccine is good. Injecting mercury into a young undeveloped body and brain is not good. Like everything the general concept is good, but the devil is in the details.

[Grits]

What is worse, injecting mercury into the bloodstream or lettting natural immunity develop?

I believe injecting a known toxin, like mercury into the body should be avoided.

The concept of a vaccine is good. Injecting mercury into a young undeveloped body and brain is not good. Like everything the general concept is good, but the devil is in the details.

SMTW, and herein lies the area where Bigpharma's feet should be held to the fire, before Congress. Way, way overdue and not under the microscope of enough investigation. Because, truth told, this IS the major hesitation for parents. Though, my son is grown, as a parent, that risk causes less concern than the flu itself. And the way parents with their children are lining up, nationwide, and the shortage being faced with the vaccination, I believe there are many others who are weighing the risk vs. the illness as well.

[Show Me the Wire]

SMTW, and herein lies the area where Bigpharma's feet should be held to the fire, before Congress. Way, way overdue and not under the microscope of enough investigation. Because, truth told, this IS the major hesitation for parents. Though, my son is grown, as a parent, that risk causes less concern than the flu itself. And the way parents with their children are lining up, nationwide, and the shortage being faced with the vaccination, I believe there are many others who are weighing the risk vs. the illness as well.

This is why I didn't understand the point of your post. different times and different motivations. Vaccines for polio and such were sought to actually prevent crippling and fatal diseases. Today it is about money.

Interesting that the Obama children were not vaccinated. If this influenza is indeed a national emergency, I think it would have been a great example to have the first family's chidren innoculated, showing how important these vaccinations are for all young children. If the first family's children are depending on natural immunity against the influenza, this is the example all should follow.

[boxcar]

This is why I didn't understand the point of your post. different times and different motivations. Vaccines for polio and such were sought to actually prevent crippling and fatal diseases. Today it is about money.

Interesting that the Obama children were not vaccinated. If this influenza is indeed a national emergency, I think it would have been a great example to have the first family's chidren innoculated, showing how important these vaccinations are for all young children. If the first family's children are depending on natural immunity against the influenza, this is the example all should follow.

Another classic example from this administration: Don't do what I do, just do what I say. Ditto for ObmaCare. Don't desire the kind of "cadillac" coverage we politicians and federal workers have; just be satisfied with the cut-rate plan we're shoving down your throat. What a bunch of hypocrites!

Boxcar

[Grits]

This is why I didn't understand the point of your post. different times and different motivations. Vaccines for polio and such were sought to actually prevent crippling and fatal diseases. Today it is about money.

Interesting that the Obama children were not vaccinated. If this influenza is indeed a national emergency, I think it would have been a great example to have the first family's chidren innoculated, showing how important these vaccinations are for all young children. If the first family's children are depending on natural immunity against the influenza, this is the example all should follow.

You all view this as a political football, I don't. I believe the Obama children have had the H1N1 vaccination.

Again, this flu is fatal, or has been to many, already.

http://www.flu.gov/news/blogs/firstfamilyvacc.html

October 27, 2009

We've been asked about whether the President, Mrs. Obama, and Sasha and Malia have received their H1N1 and seasonal flu vaccines. All four members of the Obama family have received their seasonal flu vaccine. Malia and Sasha were both vaccinated for H1N1 last week, after the vaccine became available to Washington, DC schoolchildren. President and Mrs. Obama have not yet been vaccinated for H1N1, and they will wait until the needs of the priority groups identified by the CDC – including young people under the age of 24, pregnant women, and people with underlying conditions – have been met. The girls' H1N1 vaccine was administered by a White House physician, who applied for and received the vaccine from the DC Department of Health using the same process as every other vaccination site in the District.

(........more in the report)

Boxcar, you need to be on an island with your nine cats in the middle of the Dead Sea.

No one could suit you, I don't care who it was. That's why you have a houseful of cats, they can't disagree with your policy.:lol:

[Show Me the Wire]

Whom to believe, http://www.ask.com/bar?q=Gibbs+explains+why+Obama+children+no+vaccine&page=1&qsrc=0&dm=all&ab=0&title=Mommy+Life%3A+Obama+daughters%3A+no+H1N1+swi ne+flu+vaccine+in+the+White&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmommylife.net%2Farchives%2F2009%2F1 0%2Fobama_daughters.html&sg=H%2FnNOWCdPMTksU9DM924lPX3MJhSKpfmrYlM3%2BAOgFI %3D&tsp=1257015459934

I saw the press conference.

Sorry, I don't beleive this new WH press release. The vaccine was available prior to Oct. 8 to children in D.C.

[Grits]

HOLY SHIT!!!! Forget it.

SMTW, I credited you for more wisdom than this.

At least admit you can easily see her image was photo shopped into the damn picture. I am serious.

You're wrapped up in Obama, I'm not. I'm about something completely different, ya'll aren't where I am. And that's OK, honestly.

[Show Me the Wire]

HOLY SHIT!!!! Forget it.

SMTW, I credited you for more wisdom than this.

At least admit you can easily see her image was photo shopped into the damn picture. I am serious.

You're wrapped up in Obama, I'm not. I'm about something completely different, ya'll aren't where I am. And that's OK, honestly.


Picture what picture. OOps erroneous link that is what happens when you use the ask.com links. The press conference story link http://www.infowars.com/first-daughters-not-vaccinated-against-h1n1/

President Obama’s school age daughters have not been vaccinated against the H1N1 flu virus. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs says the vaccine is not available to them based on their risk.

As I said I saw this press conference. It is a legitimate story.

BTW could you explain how my objection to a deadly toxin, mercury, being in an innoculation makes me wrapped up in Obama?

[Show Me the Wire]

Okay grits let's set the discussion straight.

You opined I am in a different place than you, because I believe having a fatal toxin, mercury, injected into young chidren is a poor idea and that I believe that the president wasted the opportunity to show the American public the seriousness of the influenza threat by failing to have his children vaccinated on the big roll out day of the innoculations.

[boxcar]

You all view this as a political football, I don't. I believe the Obama children have had the H1N1 vaccination.

Again, this flu is fatal, or has been to many, already.

http://www.flu.gov/news/blogs/firstfamilyvacc.html

October 27, 2009

We've been asked about whether the President, Mrs. Obama, and Sasha and Malia have received their H1N1 and seasonal flu vaccines. All four members of the Obama family have received their seasonal flu vaccine. Malia and Sasha were both vaccinated for H1N1 last week, after the vaccine became available to Washington, DC schoolchildren. President and Mrs. Obama have not yet been vaccinated for H1N1, and they will wait until the needs of the priority groups identified by the CDC – including young people under the age of 24, pregnant women, and people with underlying conditions – have been met. The girls' H1N1 vaccine was administered by a White House physician, who applied for and received the vaccine from the DC Department of Health using the same process as every other vaccination site in the District.

(........more in the report)

Boxcar, you need to be on an island with your nine cats in the middle of the Dead Sea.

No one could suit you, I don't care who it was. That's why you have a houseful of cats, they can't disagree with your policy.:lol:

Given SMTW's proof of that the BO family are a bunch of hypocrites, I'd say that hanging with my 9 wonderful puddies makes a lot more sense than trying to converse with you. I can understand them a heck of lot easier than I can you.

Boxcar

[hcap]

HOLY SHIT!!!! Forget it.

SMTW, I credited you for more wisdom than this.

At least admit you can easily see her image was photo shopped into the damn picture. I am serious.

You're wrapped up in Obama, I'm not. I'm about something completely different, ya'll aren't where I am. And that's OK, honestly.Obsession is the key word here. Although I actually agree with a more natural health care approach, and think many vaccines are overdone unnecessary, the 24/7 Obama bashing and conspiracy theory's here are just off the wall.

Box, SMTW has proved nothing. Sort of like you and "the issue that won't die" nonsense.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/10/27/obama_girls_vaccinated_against.html

Obama girls vaccinated against swine flu

Updated 6:17 p.m.
By Garance Franke-Ruta
Well, that settles that.

Ending speculation about when and whether the Obama girls would receive the scarce swine flu vaccine, the White House on Tuesday revealed that Sasha and Malia were both vaccinated last week, after the vaccine became available to children in the District.

.................................................. ....

BTW Grits, how is your dog?

[boxcar]

Obsession is the key word here. Although I actually agree with a more natural health care approach, and think many vaccines are overdone unnecessary, the 24/7 Obama bashing and conspiracy theory's here are just off the wall.

Box, SMTW has proved nothing. Sort of like you and "the issue that won't die" nonsense.

Only if you can believe anything that comes out of this zero credibility administration.

Boxcar

[Tom]

Preferential treatment for the Obama babes!
Heath care workers, putting their lives on the line to battle this deadly plaque, are unable to get the vaccine, but the two little rug rats get it! Right to the head of the line. What a POS Obama is - putting two HC workers at risk.

[Tom]

Sort of like you and "the issue that won't die" nonsense.

How many of those court cases dismissed were done so after the actual BC was produced in court?

[hcap]

Only if you can believe anything that comes out of this zero credibility administration.
Washington Post
New York Times
ABC News

But I guess you will wait for Glenn Beck and Rushbo to confirm it?

Tom, please don't froth at the mouth :rolleyes:

[Tom]

Learn to read...I said COURT CASES.
I know you think the NY Times is the Supreme Court, but it is not. You do know they have printed outright lies before, don't you? Intentional lies, made up stories, falsehoods. Or is that how they got to your source list? :lol:

How many cases were dismissed after presenting the legal BC?
Should be an easy question, hcap......should be easy.

btw, in like you, I never use Rush or Beck to confirm anything - I just let them point me to stories that you list fails to cover because they are biasesd hacks that work for Obama. I then verify for myself.

You were a lot better during yourtwo losing cycles tahn after winning. Must be so hard to have won and have nothing to brag about. :lol: Maybe zilly could writhe a script.

[Grits]

Okay grits let's set the discussion straight.

You opined I am in a different place than you, because I believe having a fatal toxin, mercury, injected into young chidren is a poor idea and that I believe that the president wasted the opportunity to show the American public the seriousness of the influenza threat by failing to have his children vaccinated on the big roll out day of the innoculations.

No SHTW, I didn't say you're in a different place than me due to your beliefs about mercury, or any other toxin. You're saying this. Your mercury concern was rather short, and it garnered less ink than your immediate launch into the the Obama daughters. Which seems to be your greater interest. But, it isn't mine because I don't care whether his children received this vaccination or not.

Of note as well, is where you sent me for more information to back up your statement on the daughters:

Here:

http://mommylife.net/

Some former drunk up, drugged out, but "I've seen the light now, changed my ways and I'm born again" mother of 12, who commandeers her conservative blog for every new at home mommy, in ALL HER SPARE TIME. Wonder how well that works for her? Hope the hired help's taking care of the kids while she rattles along about the Obama's.


And here:

http://www.infowars.com/

More of same. More blogging, and more conspiracy.

This stuff is WHACKED. Totally.

Neither of you answered either of my questions. Neither of you have even stated if are parents. So, no. I'm sorry I don't believe I need to be answering any questions since the same courtsey couldn't be extended to me. Pass.

Hcap, my dog is fine. My son was gravely ill this summer, (see my original post to the thread, #39, page 2) but my dog . . . she's fine.

[so.cal.fan]

http://www.wibw.com/nationalnews/headlines/67784717.html

[Show Me the Wire]

Grits:

I don't understand what is happening with the links. I was at the news site that had the question and answer about the fhidren and the flu shots.

This is the qoute from Gibbs answer:

"President Obama’s school age daughters have not been vaccinated against the H1N1 flu virus. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs says the vaccine is not available to them based on their risk."

Actually, my mercury concern is the most important as you would see if you read the entire thread. Obama didn't come up until today. Two prior posts talked about mercury in the vaccine. The majority of the Obama posts (all today) are a result of trying to clarify the innacurate links

I said the president missed an opportunity to promote the vaccinations. The Obama girls did not recieve the shot on the roll out day because as Gibbs stated the vaccine is not available to them based on their risk.

What the heck does that mean? I thought everyone under 50 was as risk.

Do you not believe Gibbs gave that answer? If not do your own search.

I told my children not to get the innoculation or give it to my grandchildren because of the thimiserol preservative.

So if I am in a different place it has to relate either to my concern about injecting mercury into young chidren or my saying Obama missed an opportunity to demonstrate to America the seriousness of the situation.

So which is it? Do you disagree about the toxin, mercury, or that Obama missed an opportunity to lead or both.

Please be specific if you respond as this is the same concept I posted in post #65. Prattling about being wrapped up in Obama adds nothing and proves nothing.

Hope your son is better.

[boxcar]

http://www.wibw.com/nationalnews/headlines/67784717.html

I wonder if they were read their Constitutional rights and apprised of the risks involved... first. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Show Me the Wire]

I think it is inhuman to inject alleged terrorists with mercury.

[Grits]

SM, thank you, my son is much, much better. Well now. And for this, I'm extremely grateful.

This is not a blog, I don't read blogs. Blogs, particularly political ones, are like butts; everyone has one. And, we know what they say about those.

Some here may cast the CDC's statements as propaganda, too. I wouldn't be one bit surprised, though, of course, I don't really care about that either. I tend to prefer their information to blogs and other sources.

As far as the Obama's, I don't give a tinker's damn what he or she does with their girls. Neither of them have heart disease. My only child does. AND THAT'S WHERE I'M AT. NO WHERE ELSE. Hope this clears things up.

Had the media filmed them getting H1N1 shots, it would've been termed "a photo op" for healthcare reform, not unlike the "photo op" of a few days ago that took place at Dover Air Force Base. Again, holy shit . . . . :faint:

The fact that all of this did NOT happen on October 8th when the vaccine was rolled out--again, doesn't mean a thing to me. October 8th was a Thursday, hell, maybe they had DANCE or GYMNASTICS after school that day. They're children for God's sake. They're not political statements.

It ain't a conspiracy. It ain't a national incident.

So SM, that's about all I got.:lol: Be well.

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/update.htm

Most recent update of October 30, 2009.

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/public/vaccination_qa_pub.htm

Questions and answers among which are . . . .

Who will be recommended to receive the 2009 H1N1 vaccine?

CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) has recommended that certain groups of the population receive the 2009 H1N1 vaccine when it first becomes available. These target groups include pregnant women, people who live with or care for children younger than 6 months of age, healthcare and emergency medical services personnel, persons between the ages of 6 months and 24 years old, and people ages of 25 through 64 years of age who are at higher risk for 2009 H1N1 because of chronic health disorders or compromised immune systems.

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/thimerosal_qa.htm

An entire page addressing the concerns of thimerosal. Which has long been held by parents of children with Autism as one of the primary culprits, for the cause of it. If not THE primary cause. Genetics, I believe, scientists, researchers, and physicians, et al, feel plays a very large part, as well.

Grits:

I don't understand what is happening with the links. I was at the news site that had the question and answer about the fhidren and the flu shots.

This is the qoute from Gibbs answer:

"President Obama’s school age daughters have not been vaccinated against the H1N1 flu virus. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs says the vaccine is not available to them based on their risk."

Actually, my mercury concern is the most important as you would see if you read the entire thread. Obama didn't come up until today. Two prior posts talked about mercury in the vaccine. The majority of the Obama posts (all today) are a result of trying to clarify the innacurate links

I said the president missed an opportunity to promote the vaccinations. The Obama girls did not recieve the shot on the roll out day because as Gibbs stated the vaccine is not available to them based on their risk.

What the heck does that mean? I thought everyone under 50 was as risk.

Do you not believe Gibbs gave that answer? If not do your own search.

I told my children not to get the innoculation or give it to my grandchildren because of the thimiserol preservative.

So if I am in a different place it has to relate either to my concern about injecting mercury into young chidren or my saying Obama missed an opportunity to demonstrate to America the seriousness of the situation.

So which is it? Do you disagree about the toxin, mercury, or that Obama missed an opportunity to lead or both.

Please be specific if you respond as this is the same concept I posted in post #65. Prattling about being wrapped up in Obama adds nothing and proves nothing.

Hope your son is better.

[LottaKash]

Some "shot" additives...

http:http://www.youtube.com/watch? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?).....This is funny, concerning the "shot"....

Some sobering food for thought about the effectiveness of the "shot", from a manufacturer's spokesperson ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az5aAwr4ugE&feature=related

Mercury is used as a preservative in the "shot" ... and is linked to "Alzeheimers" & "Autism"....worth the risk ? You decide ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKuznYVn40s&feature=related....A 1/9 shot against "shot" if you asked me....Hey,

best,

[eastie]

in massachusetts if you refuse the vacination they put you in jail. they gonna have to catch me cause i ain't letting them stick me with their bad needles.


we will find you, and jab you twice for running. Afterwards you will be deported from Massachusetts to a state to be determined.

[RaceBookJoe]

Some "shot" additives...

http:http://www.youtube.com/watch? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?).....This is funny, concerning the "shot"....

Some sobering food for thought about the effectiveness of the "shot", from a manufacturer's spokesperson ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az5aAwr4ugE&feature=related

Mercury is used as a preservative in the "shot" ... and is linked to "Alzeheimers" & "Autism"....worth the risk ? You decide ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKuznYVn40s&feature=related....A 1/9 shot against "shot" if you asked me....Hey,

best,

A few weeks ago I was reading an article about the shot...kind of conspiracy-talk...but the article said that the shot had nano-particles in it...and they were saying it was so the govt could track you through the particles. things that make you go hmmm rbj

[Show Me the Wire]

A few weeks ago I was reading an article about the shot...kind of conspiracy-talk...but the article said that the shot had nano-particles in it...and they were saying it was so the govt could track you through the particles. things that make you go hmmm rbj

Dennis Kuchinich(sp)believes the above theory.

[Grits]

A few weeks ago I was reading an article about the shot...kind of conspiracy-talk...but the article said that the shot had nano-particles in it...and they were saying it was so the govt could track you through the particles. things that make you go hmmm rbj


LOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Wow, this stuff is unreal. My government is tracking me.

If any of you guys have teeth that have been filled . . . . get them pulled. Get 'em out of your head right away. Gone. Buy dentures; less worries with Polident. And whatever you do, stop giving your children candy and sweets--it'll ruin their teeth. Too, of course, more mercury, more autism.

Also, do NOT ever eat another piece of fish again. Do not eat anything from the ocean. None for you or your children and grandchildren. Oceanlife contains, as we know, mercury.

All this mercury will surely cause early onset of Altzheimers, forget the genetic factors that have been linked with the disease.

One of the problems with Altzheimers is fear. Do we have a diagnosis here, or a general consensus yet?

[Show Me the Wire]

LOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Wow, this stuff is unreal. My government is tracking me.

If any of you guys have teeth that have been filled . . . . get them pulled. Get 'em out of your head right away. Gone. Buy dentures; less worries with Polident. And whatever you do, stop giving your children candy and sweets--it'll ruin their teeth. Too, of course, more mercury, more autism.

Also, do NOT ever eat another piece of fish again. Do not eat anything from the ocean. None for you or your children and grandchildren. Oceanlife contains, as we know, mercury.

All this mercury will surely cause early onset of Altzheimers, forget the genetic factors that have been linked with the disease.

One of the problems with Altzheimers is fear. Do we have a diagnosis here, or a general consensus yet?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6W81-4XC57CT-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=163a9340a2cb2e9c65b170e058dc21b1

A recent study showing slower brain development linked to thimerosal.

[Grits]

SM, you're kind, but pass, I've read enough. LOL

To shoot or not to shoot, it doesn't matter to me. I simply did what I thought was right for my child on the advice of his cardiologist and his pulmonologist.

I do know, though, two more pregnant women died, here in my state, in the last 10 days. I'm sorry. But with that one, too, I'm not worried because I'm waYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY past that part of my life. :) Thank God.

[Show Me the Wire]

SM, you're kind, but pass, I've read enough. LOL

To shoot or not to shoot, it doesn't matter to me. I simply did what I thought was right for my child on the advice of his cardiologist and his pulmonologist.

I do know, though, two more pregnant women died, here in my state, in the last 10 days. I'm sorry. But with that one, too, I'm not worried because I'm waYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY past that part of my life. :) Thank God.


The study focused on receiving a thimerosal-containing Hepatitis B vaccine and not H1N! (swine flu) vaccines.

Thimerosal is bad news. Shooting a toxic substance like mercury into the body is vastly different than being exposed to through food consumption.

Like everything in life all decisons must be made with risk-reward. Certain situations may make the risk of injecting mercury into the body preferably to the risk of becoming infected with swine flu.

[LottaKash]

. Certain situations may make the risk of injecting mercury into the body preferably to the risk of becoming infected with swine flu.

It seems that you have fallen for that too....Please, show me "one" study that shows that a "shot" will prevent any "flu"....That is why most Dr's and health-care pro's don't get the shot....Why take "mercury" into the body for "nothing"....?

It is remarkable how gullible and naive and trusting the public has become, when it comes to "drugs" & "shots" for disease prevention....I guess we just love-em...(not me)....The world is being taken for a "serious ride" in that regard, imo...

best,

[cj's dad]

Amazing how this "epidemic" has disappeared from the nightly news now that the Health Care Bill has passed. 120 mil vaccines ordered, 20+ mil delivered and the issue dies. How convenient!!

Wheres the panic (fabricated??) of one month ago ??

[Show Me the Wire]

Studies have shown buiding up a resistance to the flu. Yes, resistance to is not immunity, but you are playing on semantics.

There is a host of problems with this vaccine. If you noticed I limited my discussion to the mercury based preservative that is in many vaccines.

Another major problem specifically with the swine flu vaccine is the presence of a live virus. This is potentially very dangerous too. If anybody is interested so a search on live viruses in vaccines. Also, there was a major mistake, some say intentional mix-up. One batch of swine flu vaccine was mixed with the live viruses of swine flu and bird flu strains, this combination if injected would have killed thousands. Strange how this potentially devasting mistake has been ignored by U.S. media

[46zilzal]

Studies have shown building up a resistance to the flu. Yes, resistance to is not immunity, but you are playing on semantics.


They are in fact the same thing...PLEASE go to school. There are answers to ignorance offered there.

Resistance comes two ways: via antibodies or cellular (white cells of various types once sensitized they remain in nodes to proliferate when needed). The size of the antigenic stimulus relates to specifically how the body goes out to attack a foreign protein complex.

Thimersol has been around a very long time.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228#thi

Allergic responses to thimerosal are described in the clinical literature, with these responses manifesting themselves primarily in the form of delayed-type local hypersensitivity reactions, including redness and swelling at the injection site (Cox and Forsyth 1988; Grabenstein 1996). Such reactions are usually mild and last only a few days. Some authors postulate that the thiosalicylate component is the major determinant of allergic reactions (Goncalo et al. 1996). In a clinical setting, however, it is usually not possible to determine whether local reactions are caused by thimerosal or other vaccine components.

The earliest published report of thimerosal use in humans was published in 1931 (Powell and Jamieson 1931). In this report, 22 individuals received 1% solution of thimerosal intravenously for unspecified therapeutic reasons. Subjects received up to 26 milligrams thimerosal/kg (1 milligrams equals 1,000 micrograms) with no reported toxic effects, although 2 subjects demonstrated phlebitis or sloughing of skin after local infiltration. Of note, this study was not specifically designed to examine toxicity; 7 of 22 subjects were observed for only one day, the specific clinical assessments were not described, and no laboratory studies were reported.

Several cases of acute mercury poisoning from thimerosal-containing products were found in the medical literature with total doses of thimerosal ranging from approximately 3 mg/kg to several hundred mg/kg. These reports included the administration of immune globulin (gamma globulin) (Matheson et al. 1980) and hepatitis B immune globulin (Lowell et al. 1996), choramphenicol formulated with 1000 times the proper dose of thimerosal as a preservative (Axton 1972), thimerosal ear irrigation in a child with tympanostomy tubes (Rohyans et al. 1994), thimerosal treatment of omphaloceles in infants (Fagan et al. 1977), and a suicide attempt with thimerosal (Pfab et al. 1996). These studies reported local necrosis, acute hemolysis, disseminated intravascular coagulation, acute renal tubular necrosis, and central nervous system injury including obtundation, coma, and death. (IOM)

[Valuist]

I don't know what was more hyped: H1N1 or Arazi. It seemed like the government and media were trying to trigger a panic situation. Hello.......flu happens every year and people die from it every year. Something like 200,000 every year. From what I've heard, the death numbers from H1N1 are pretty small.

[bigmack]

Feeding paranoia yields great ratings.

Be afraid and answer your phone. It's Gallop.

[RaceBookJoe]

I don't know what was more hyped: H1N1 or Arazi. It seemed like the government and media were trying to trigger a panic situation. Hello.......flu happens every year and people die from it every year. Something like 200,000 every year. From what I've heard, the death numbers from H1N1 are pretty small.

Not sure about you..but i havent seen 1 story about h1n1 since the health bill passed...govt is big on scare tactics. rbj

[Tom]

We were promised 127 million doses would be here by now, but we only have around 12 million. What went wrong? Typical government screw up trying to run a health care program on a small scale (:rolleyes:)or something else that we have not been told?

I am very leery.

Follow up on the result of Obama's incompetent handling of H1N1...

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

[woodtoo]

Tom, bringin back the hits:ThmbUp:
Oldies but goodies I dont remember this Top Ten Hit.

[FantasticDan]

Follow up on the result of Obama's incompetent handling of H1N1...

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html
Uhhh.. can you be more specific :lol:

Trump spent the last month befuddled that he couldn’t insult or belittle a virus.. until Rush and Hannity (and thus toadie Tom) figured out for him that they/he could just rag on Obama’s response to H1N1, despite it clearly being an exercise in efficiency and order compared to the Trump admin’s overwhelming incompetence..

[sammy the sage]

Follow up on the result of Obama's incompetent handling of H1N1...

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

so I guess what you're saying...he pissed on himself so it's ok if current dude shit himself...got it...:eek:

[clicknow]

...flu happens every year and people die from it every year. Something like 200,000 every year. From what I've heard, the death numbers from H1N1 are pretty small.

Since I had a family member stricken down with H1N1, and I was in several different hospitals and rehab centers during that time (30+ days to be exact) I think I can speak to this. (I also remember when H1N1 was also called a hoax and a fake frenzy while my family member was touch-and-go life n' death).

1) H1N1 influenza symptoms were generally less severe than the seasonal flu and its death rate comparable. The concern at the time was no immunity in in the general population because it was not included in the flu vaccine, so the thought was that it might infect more people. On an individual level, H1N1 is was otherwise not more worrisome than seasonal flu, with a similar mortality rate. BUT NOBODY KNEW THAT STARTING OUT.

(This isn't the case with Covid-19, which is 10x more severe than seasonal flu.)

2) Both H1N1 and seasonal flu respond to both Tamiflu and Relenza -- (until H1N1 became resistant to Tamiflu as the virus mutated......but Relenza still worked.)

(Covid-19 does not respond to these drugs and it will take a while to develop both a vaccine and an anti-viral for this new novel virus.) And, we still do not know if it will mutate, or if it will behave here the same way it did in China or Italy. Summer may not help, since there are cases in warm humid climates already like Phillipines, etc.

Woo Too hada similar post. He/she left out a lot of information that would be needed to *properly* evalaute these viruses, but you don't get that information from the TV or media. You have to read at the medical sites and hospitals that are treaters.

I.e. how many H1N1 patients required mechanical ventilators w/intubation, noninvasive mechanical ventilation, or if oxygen therapy by venturi-mask or continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) was sufficient for most patients. Also, how many negative-pressure isolation rooms were needed.

Again, without comparing the data in every way possible, and the load on ICUs, you fail to properly evaluate the differences in this virus and the manpower it requires compared to seasonal influenza and H1N1.

So I will repeat, the main worry right now, from 30 nations all tele-conferenced in (which they do daily), is that Covid-19 presents a major clinical challenge due to the severity of the disease, and the possibility of having a surge of critically-ill patients requiring mechanical ventilation and other interentions, which strains health systems and exhausts biomedical supplies and staff.

We just don't know because it's a novel virus, so if you are a molecular biologist or something, and feel assured that "there is no difference between seasonal or H1N1" then go with that.

Unlike you, I have no such *certainty*.

[fast4522]

Maybe the numbers will reflect those who would normally pass in 2020, there is no way of knowing that but one year from now this will not be the subject content.

[tucker6]

Clicknow, literally everyone reading your posts knows all the things you mention. There's not a lot of disagreement in your general comments. (I think we all know you don't get admitted to the ICU with sniffles. It harms everything else you say when you make comments like that).

What reasonable people can disagree with is whether it's worth destroying the economy and country to save 2,000 elderly people? 10,000? 50,000? What's the number? Your instant response may be to ask what if it was my elderly loved one? but that's a straw man. 70,000 die of overdoses annually. That's a 0.2% mortality rate compared to 0.1-0.7% for the virus. So it is more about the unknown because we already have many Americans dying from other lethal causes that are even more preventable. Why aren't we trying harder in these areas? politics.


I don't blame any US politician. I blame the Chinese for being secret about this until it was too late to contain. President Xi is the only politician to blame.

[clicknow]

@tucker6
First of all, thank you for such a thoughtful post.

I don't blame any US politician.
My posts about the virus have been pretty non-partisan. Snafus are multi-factoral and lie across broad swaths. I am certainly less liberal but also less conservative than many posters here.

What reasonable people can disagree with is whether it's worth destroying the economy and country to save 2,000 elderly people? 10,000? 50,000? What's the number?

We are not alone since it seems to be a worldwide phenomena. I didn't get to vote on it. We'll discover if the decisions of world leaders across the planet have done the right thing, or if it's just a chain reaction. There's a middle ground somewhere but nobody achieved it. I don't have the correct solution, but also don't believe that everything I think is right just because I think it. ;) Most of my real-life behavior allows for doubt and risk and a multitude of errors. That is why I would never want to be POTUS.

Your instant response may be to ask what if it was my elderly loved one? but that's a straw man.

I am not in favor of burning it all down to save elderly people, even my mom. (We don't have that problem anyway since completing advance directives and DNRs. ;)) I worked on a transplant unit for 2 years. I understand why we don't give heart transplants to 85 year olds; 1) because they *probably* don't have a lot of time to use this valuable gift, and 2) they're unlikely to t survive the surgery. There is a long waiting list for vital organs, and so many are deserving. I encourage everyone to consider organ donation on drivers license.

What if Covid-19 only killed children? I do try to choose my words carefully so as not to sound like I'm *implying* that someone matters less because nobody is *in* that category for me ( I let God do that part). I realize that being controversial and sassy is fashionable these days but I'm not trying to make a name for myself like AOC or Owens. You can have 'em ....both of them. ;) And others of their ilk. They cannot inspire anyone.


China
Communist China lies. (I guess that is why we gave them all our business?) How much of us do they own?

I warned in 2013 when pork processor Smithfield was purchased by a Chinese holding company and ChemChina placed a $43 billion offer for the agri-chemical company Syngenta (they got it too!) Twas barely a topic of conversation anywhere. Nobody even engaged me when I told how China was gaining a major foothold in feed production and our food supply. I guess everyone thought it was just a problem that farmers in Nebraska and Iowa who had cows and crops worried about.

At some point, we need to value some things more than we value just the stock market and profits.


Unlike this virus that will do temporary damage (we will emerge from this wound). But what about long term? And a lot of that has to do with putting profits over anything and everything. Wall Street is all that matters.

I don't know if we can fix this.....Greed seems to have "run amock".

[Tom]

Uhhh.. can you be more specific :lol:

Trump spent the last month befuddled that he couldn’t insult or belittle a virus.. until Rush and Hannity (and thus toadie Tom) figured out for him that they/he could just rag on Obama’s response to H1N1, despite it clearly being an exercise in efficiency and order compared to the Trump admin’s overwhelming incompetence..

Of course you don't address the facts here.
I posted this because it came up in another thread and I though, correctly, Obama did not do such a good job going by the standards Trump is being held to. Surely you have to admit, Barry screwed the pooch on that one.

btw,I got a read card for insulting YOU much less than your toadie remark.

But you do have a vivid imagination - not a very intelligent one, but a vivid one. - There, we are even.

[Valuist]

Since I had a family member stricken down with H1N1, and I was in several different hospitals and rehab centers during that time (30+ days to be exact) I think I can speak to this. (I also remember when H1N1 was also called a hoax and a fake frenzy while my family member was touch-and-go life n' death).

1) H1N1 influenza symptoms were generally less severe than the seasonal flu and its death rate comparable. The concern at the time was no immunity in in the general population because it was not included in the flu vaccine, so the thought was that it might infect more people. On an individual level, H1N1 is was otherwise not more worrisome than seasonal flu, with a similar mortality rate. BUT NOBODY KNEW THAT STARTING OUT.

(This isn't the case with Covid-19, which is 10x more severe than seasonal flu.)

2) Both H1N1 and seasonal flu respond to both Tamiflu and Relenza -- (until H1N1 became resistant to Tamiflu as the virus mutated......but Relenza still worked.)

(Covid-19 does not respond to these drugs and it will take a while to develop both a vaccine and an anti-viral for this new novel virus.) And, we still do not know if it will mutate, or if it will behave here the same way it did in China or Italy. Summer may not help, since there are cases in warm humid climates already like Phillipines, etc.

Woo Too hada similar post. He/she left out a lot of information that would be needed to *properly* evalaute these viruses, but you don't get that information from the TV or media. You have to read at the medical sites and hospitals that are treaters.

I.e. how many H1N1 patients required mechanical ventilators w/intubation, noninvasive mechanical ventilation, or if oxygen therapy by venturi-mask or continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) was sufficient for most patients. Also, how many negative-pressure isolation rooms were needed.

Again, without comparing the data in every way possible, and the load on ICUs, you fail to properly evaluate the differences in this virus and the manpower it requires compared to seasonal influenza and H1N1.

So I will repeat, the main worry right now, from 30 nations all tele-conferenced in (which they do daily), is that Covid-19 presents a major clinical challenge due to the severity of the disease, and the possibility of having a surge of critically-ill patients requiring mechanical ventilation and other interentions, which strains health systems and exhausts biomedical supplies and staff.

We just don't know because it's a novel virus, so if you are a molecular biologist or something, and feel assured that "there is no difference between seasonal or H1N1" then go with that.

Unlike you, I have no such *certainty*.

In all fairness, I posted about H1N1, not COVid-19, and the post was from December of 2009. And from all reports we've heard, the death rate from the current virus is definitely higher than H1N1. And no, I have no certainty on where COVid-19 goes from here.

[clicknow]

In all fairness, I posted about H1N1, not COVid-19, and the post was from December of 2009. And from all reports we've heard, the death rate from the current virus is definitely higher than H1N1. And no, I have no certainty on where COVid-19 goes from here.

OOPS! Sorry Valuist.

At any rate, it was an opportunity to compare and contrast.

I am actually interested in the "topic matter" of viruses, I used to read a lot of stuff on STAT for years, but the guy who wrote for them is not there anymore.

I find it amazing is that even though they teach you as a youngster about how things like the common cold spreads.......these maps are so sophisticated in tracking infection data nowadays (I grew up in age of no computers originally) and it's amazing to watch a thing spread around the globe in close to 'real time' .....I think it also raises people's general awareness about how to practice good hygiene even when there's NOT any flu going around.

Smokey the Bear campaigns did that for fire for me as a youngster. We learned all the steps of making sure a campfire is completely out, etc. from Smokey and also my Girl Scout troop.

[Valuist]

OOPS! Sorry Valuist.

At any rate, it was an opportunity to compare and contrast.

I am actually interested in the "topic matter" of viruses, I used to read a lot of stuff on STAT for years, but the guy who wrote for them is not there anymore.

I find it amazing is that even though they teach you as a youngster about how things like the common cold spreads.......these maps are so sophisticated in tracking infection data nowadays (I grew up in age of no computers originally) and it's amazing to watch a thing spread around the globe in close to 'real time' .....I think it also raises people's general awareness about how to practice good hygiene even when there's NOT any flu going around.

Smokey the Bear campaigns did that for fire for me as a youngster. We learned all the steps of making sure a campfire is completely out, etc. from Smokey and also my Girl Scout troop.

In retrospect, we may have gotten a bit "lucky" with H1N1; while the end game numbers were pretty big, it was divided between two different outbreaks over a considerable period of time. That enabled the hospitals and healthcare system to not become overwhelmed. Different sequencing of the numbers and it could've been a lot worse.

But we've never seen the financial markets react (ok, lets exclude 1918 markets during Spanish Flu) this much to a virus like they are now.

[46zilzal]

Should we get vaccinated?
Is it safe? Any fears about it being rushed?



Most vaccinations challenge the host with either an ATTENUATED bug or an antigen that mimics that on the surface of cell wall of said bug..IT IS SPECIFIC TO THE GENUS AND SPECIES OF THAT BUG.

There is little cross species immunity when you prepare a specific vaccination

[davew]

Most vaccinations challenge the host with either an ATTENUATED bug or an antigen that mimics that on the surface of cell wall of said bug..IT IS SPECIFIC TO THE GENUS AND SPECIES OF THAT BUG.

There is little cross species immunity when you prepare a specific vaccination

but there is a boost to the immunity system