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Java Gold@TFT
10-23-2009, 10:02 AM
I follow pedigrees a lot even though I am no expert on it. The next pedigrre sire for stamina - Dynaformer.

7. Dynaformer may someday be known as the best steeplechase sire in history. The Kentucky stallion produced Far Hills winners Left Unsaid and Ambersham, who combined to earn $130,000. In other acton at Far Hills, Tax Ruling finished third in the Grand National and Dynaskill placed second in the Peapack. Sire of Kentucky Derby winner Barbaro and a host of flat stars, Dynafomer puts stamina – and an affinity for demanding soft turf – into his progeny. Through October 23, the NSA top 10 includes three sons of Dynaformer (Left Unsaid, Tax Ruling and Dynaski).

From Joe Clancy at Steeplechase Times

http://www.st-publishing.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1043&Itemid=73

Joe and his brother Sean have lived their whole lives around steeplechasers as jockeys before becoming commentators. The Dynaformers have been great at distances. Take a second look at them when you see a first timer going two turns whether on dirt or turf. Personally I haven't noticed this type of stamina influence since El Prado and now we have Birdstone to watch also.

Dick Powell
10-23-2009, 10:28 AM
I would add Tiznow and Street Cry to the list of sires that add stamina to a pedigree - especially on dirt.

46zilzal
10-23-2009, 01:03 PM
It is about time, Who was the last one Run the Gauntlet?

Breed speed to speed, DON'T offer ANY graded stamina contests on dirt, and it disappears. Not too bright

Cratos
10-23-2009, 01:12 PM
I would add Tiznow and Street Cry to the list of sires that add stamina to a pedigree - especially on dirt.

You are right and should we add Birdstone or is it too early?

Horseplayersbet.com
10-23-2009, 01:20 PM
Dynaformer did race 30 times. Went to stud as a 5 year old.

joanied
10-23-2009, 01:25 PM
Pleasant Colony is another stamina stallion...wish I had time to look up some info about this...
and let's not forget the mare can influence stamina to a great degree.
Interesting topic.

Steve R
10-23-2009, 03:02 PM
Among sires active at the beginning of 2009 and whose progeny have won at least 50 North American open stakes races, these are the 10 with the longest average winning distance (in decreasing order):

Theatrical
With Approval
Kingmambo
Thunder Gulch
A.P. Indy
Giant's Causeway
Langfuhr
Dynaformer
Red Ransom
Awesome Again

46zilzal
10-23-2009, 03:05 PM
We have a good AP Indy here that just won at 1 1/2 on the main track: Numaany

Java Gold@TFT
10-24-2009, 01:29 AM
Among sires active at the beginning of 2009 and whose progeny have won at least 50 North American open stakes races, these are the 10 with the longest average winning distance (in decreasing order):

Theatrical
With Approval
Kingmambo
Thunder Gulch
A.P. Indy
Giant's Causeway
Langfuhr
Dynaformer
Red Ransom
Awesome Again

Thanks for that list. The only two surprises to me are Langfur and Red Ransom. I enjoyed both while they were racing but also considerred both of them as solid producers of milers. Maybe they have so many winners at 8-9F that it drags their AWD up. I hate to see an AWD in the 6 range for any sire who has been bred for at least 3 years. It's also great that the list has so many turf horses. I wouldn't be surprised one bit to see Kitten's Joy show up on the same list 2 or 3 years from now.

Bochall
10-24-2009, 02:12 AM
You are right and should we add Birdstone or is it too early? I think we must include him. Has any other sire gotten two different winners of a Triple Crown race in the same year? Someone out there knows...please tell me. Tiznow is another favorite, as mentioned by someone earlier.

juanepstein
10-24-2009, 02:30 AM
australians love MORE THAN READY.

http://www.racenet.com.au/stats/WetSires.asp

3200 RUNS- 488 WINS- 15.2%

STREET CRY is 18th on the wet track sire list.

28 wins from 168 starts- 16.7%

WinterTriangle
10-24-2009, 03:23 AM
The leading first crop sire right now is Roman Ruler (Homeboykris, Roman Invasion) Roman Ruler himself is from the first crop of Fusaichi Pegasus.
Roman Ruler's 1/2 brother, El Corredor, has sired G1 winners on all 3 surfaces.
Roman Ruler's and El Corredor's other 1/2 brother is Maimonedes, so they are saying keep an eye on that one when he starts breeding.:jump:



and let's not forget the mare can influence stamina to a great degree.


and broodmare sires.

Sire stamina is only a fractional part of the whole picture, people who do a decent pedigree analysis do it for 5 generations +, outcrosses, duplications, and include the broodmare sires, etc.

To look only at sire stamina is piecemeal.


Dr. Roman lists the stamina broodmare sires as Turkoman, Theatrical, Minnesota Mac, Diesis as strongest dominant stamina. He also has Sire vs. Broodmare Sire Aptitudinal Influence 2009 up on now.

Abbreviations: you could look for sires under Professional category for stamina/distance, a dosage index under 4.00. Center of distribution (CD) value of 0 would be theoretically perfect, and a -2.00 would be pure professional (stamina)...

Can also use top sire at >9F on dirt:
http://www.breedingwinners.com/aspspecial/pdfdisplay.asp?filename=topsirereports/TopSiresGT9FDirt.PDF


To make is really simple, I just look at Average Winning Distance (AWD) of 8 furlongs +....(what I was trying to tell my friend last year who was SURE Gayego would win :lol: :)).


I fantasize about who I would breed to if I had a great mare, :lol: Read here and you'll see the expensive ones at the bottom of the page, which includes dynaformer :
http://www.thoroughbredreview.com/StallionWatch.htm

WinterTriangle
10-24-2009, 03:27 AM
wow. how wierd is this? As you can see, my post did not show up. I wrote this long post that I have to write all over again!

WinterTriangle
10-24-2009, 03:38 AM
Eh, I'm not even gonna try to write it all out again.

The leading first crop sire right now is Roman Ruler. (homeboykris, roman invasion). He's 1/2 bro to El Corredor, who has produced G1 winners now on all 3 surfaces.

Their other 1/2 bro is Maimonedes, who is also a grandson of Seattle Slew, is standing at the Vinery now. I would watch him closely.

pedigreeman
10-24-2009, 05:51 AM
4. Tesio did not patronize pure sprinters as sires. You will look in vain for crosses of sprinting sires, such as Tetratema, Panorama, etc., in the Tesio pedigrees. Tesio did not despise speed; indeed, he was fond of saying that in the pedigrees of nearly all high-class racers, one could find animals of ex ceptional speed fairly close up.
5. His favorite strain was that of St. Simon (Tesio said he had curby hocks), and he tried to pile up as much St. Simon in his pedigrees as he could get, but, as he said, “not close up.” Inasmuch as we were talking in 1938 and St. Simon had been foaled in 1881, it already was a little hard to get the name “close up.”
What he was thinking of may be illustrated in the pedigree of Nearco. Pharos, sire of Nearco, was inbred to St. Simon with three free generations; his maternal grandsire, Havresac II, was inbred to St. Simon with one free generation and had two additional crosses of Galopin, the sire of St. Simon.
6. Tesio relied almost entirely on British strains for the introduction of new blood into his stud, but he did not mind American blood. Nearco himself traced in tail female to Maiden (by Lexington), a winner of the Travers.
7. In contrast to the Aga Khan, who believed that you could breed stoutness on the basis of speed, Tesio apparently never bought animals with pure speed pedigrees. He seemed to believe that one could evolve speed out of a stout base. This may have been due in part to his criteria for the sires he used. His general policy was to limit himself to stallions that had been very good 2.year’olds and then could go on with success at the classic distances as 3-year-olds. The fact that they had been high-class 2-year-olds gave him a source of early maturity and good speed. He did not absolutely insist that a sire had to be a Derby winner; he used Pharos (second by a length in the Derby) as a mate for Nogara, to produce Nearco.

Java Gold@TFT
10-24-2009, 07:21 AM
OK, there are some people here who believe in breeding profiling. Here is the official list of chef-de-race sires by category.

http://www.chef-de-race.com/dosage/chefs-de-race/chefs_by_group.htm

Who does everyone want to see put on the list? Steve Roman takes a lot of data into consideration before he declares any horse a ‘chef-de-race’ and I am far from privy to the data he has available.

Just skimming the list based on very questionable judgment I would guess that the following need to be added. (Again off the top of my head with no research)

Storm Cat (CS)
More Than Ready (BI)
Broad Brush (I)
Saddlers Wells (CS) (Sorry, just saw he is listed CS)
El Prado (IC)
City Zip (B)

Please feel free to fill in my limited list but Mr. Roman’s list is definitely a work in motion. In the future I look forward to where horses like Birdstone will end up.

As a personal note – my favorite Easy Goer has never made Roman’s list. Regardless of how short his breeding career was, his influence lives on through others. I know he will never have enough to get chef status but like Secretariat I think he is a very capable broodmare sire.

Steve R
10-24-2009, 03:55 PM
OK, there are some people here who believe in breeding profiling. Here is the official list of chef-de-race sires by category.

http://www.chef-de-race.com/dosage/chefs-de-race/chefs_by_group.htm

Who does everyone want to see put on the list? Steve Roman takes a lot of data into consideration before he declares any horse a ‘chef-de-race’ and I am far from privy to the data he has available.

Just skimming the list based on very questionable judgment I would guess that the following need to be added. (Again off the top of my head with no research)

Storm Cat (CS)
More Than Ready (BI)
Broad Brush (I)
Saddlers Wells (CS) (Sorry, just saw he is listed CS)
El Prado (IC)
City Zip (B)

Please feel free to fill in my limited list but Mr. Roman’s list is definitely a work in motion. In the future I look forward to where horses like Birdstone will end up.

As a personal note – my favorite Easy Goer has never made Roman’s list. Regardless of how short his breeding career was, his influence lives on through others. I know he will never have enough to get chef status but like Secretariat I think he is a very capable broodmare sire.
Can't agree with Storm Cat. Based on 320 open stakes wins, his progeny Dosage figures as a combined sire and broodmare sire are avg DI 3.12 and avg CD 0.76 at an avg winning distance of 7.78f. The predicted values at 7.78f are DI 3.39 and CD 0.73, so Storm Cat's descendants are already very close without invoking an additional speed/stamina influence from him. Also, based on 649 open stakes wins for about two dozen Storm Cat sons as sires and broodmare sires, the avg DI is 2.81 and the avg CD is 0.73 at an avg winning distance of 7.68f. IOW, first and second generation descendants are running slightly shorter but have lower Dosage figures. If anything, Storm Cat is contributing a bit of speed. Overall, his line represents speed since the avg winning distance of all sires in the database is 8.10f.

The recent addition of Carson City as a BI has created a good fit for City Zip whose progeny have an avg DI 5.03 and avg CD 1.12 at an avg winning distance of 7.46f. And with relatively few SWs it is premature to define a strong speed/stamina influence of his own.

I'll have to take a closer look at More Than Ready, a sire I admire very much for consistency. The same for El Prado. He is much more interesting since the arrival of Medaglia d'Oro on the scene and the good start for Kitten's Joy. Several other sire prospects by El Prado are coming on soon.

BTW, Broad Brush was made an IC way back in 2000.

PaceAdvantage
10-24-2009, 06:04 PM
wow. how wierd is this? As you can see, my post did not show up. I wrote this long post that I have to write all over again!I fixed it for you...you didn't close the quote properly and it caused it to mess up...

juanepstein
10-24-2009, 06:56 PM
OK, there are some people here who believe in breeding profiling. Here is the official list of chef-de-race sires by category.

http://www.chef-de-race.com/dosage/chefs-de-race/chefs_by_group.htm

Who does everyone want to see put on the list? Steve Roman takes a lot of data into consideration before he declares any horse a ‘chef-de-race’ and I am far from privy to the data he has available.

Just skimming the list based on very questionable judgment I would guess that the following need to be added. (Again off the top of my head with no research)

Storm Cat (CS)
More Than Ready (BI)
Broad Brush (I)
Saddlers Wells (CS) (Sorry, just saw he is listed CS)
El Prado (IC)
City Zip (B)

Please feel free to fill in my limited list but Mr. Roman’s list is definitely a work in motion. In the future I look forward to where horses like Birdstone will end up.

As a personal note – my favorite Easy Goer has never made Roman’s list. Regardless of how short his breeding career was, his influence lives on through others. I know he will never have enough to get chef status but like Secretariat I think he is a very capable broodmare sire.

was just gonna mention SADLERS WELLS.:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

juanepstein
10-24-2009, 07:13 PM
here is the list of what the australians are breeding to. they are a %100 turf well almost they do have a poly meet once in a while. since these are who they love of the north american breed i use them for capping north amerian races.

more than ready+
lion heart +
tale of the cat+
berstein- surprisingly
street cry+
flying spur
johar- rare appearances
giants causeway+
thunder gulch
bianconi+
royal academy+
dehere
fu-peg+
brief truce
johanessburg+
fantastic light
red ransom+
stravinsky+
kingmambo- rare apperances
galileo
high chapperal- rare- 4 yr old colt won the cox plate last night- wire to wire.theres a maiden running tonight with a top class trainer.
hold that tiger+
val royal- rare
black minnaloushe- starting to see a bunch.
statue of liberty- been seeing alot of these too.

+ see alot of them daily

this is just from the two cards tonight.tracks are drying up down under so watch for domination from n. american sires.especially maiden races.

if i was in the business of importing. i would import REDOUTES CHOICE horse to america. that bred is a monster down under.

juanepstein
10-25-2009, 04:47 PM
was just gonna mention SADLERS WELLS.:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

really believe some sadlers well blood is gonna blow up the tote today in the 8th at keenland

:3: soul of nataka

Nacumi
10-25-2009, 05:37 PM
Milwaukee Brew has a pedigree laced with stamina influences top and bottom.
Every baby of his I've seen (handful in Penna.) seems to like to race.

nearco
10-25-2009, 05:56 PM
high chapperal- rare- 4 yr old colt won the cox plate last night- wire to wire.theres a maiden running tonight with a top class trainer.


.

The High Chapp colt, So You Think, is a 3yo, and an early season 3yo at that. His win in the Cox Plate, Australia's richest wfa race, is the equivalent of a 3yo in the US beating older horses in a G1 in Mar.
Pretty impressive win too.

nearco
10-25-2009, 06:01 PM
The High Chapp colt, So You Think, is a 3yo, and an early season 3yo at that. His win in the Cox Plate, Australia's richest wfa race, is the equivalent of a 3yo in the US beating older horses in a G1 in Mar.
Pretty impressive win too.

Here's the replay if anyone wants to take a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lr05vYl2Rc

Btw, that course at Moonee Valley is synthetic turf. As someone mentioned in another thread, it's the same stuff also use at Sha Tin in Hong Kong. This is something they should look into in the US, as it also more racing on the grass course without tearing it up.

juanepstein
10-25-2009, 06:01 PM
The High Chapp colt, So You Think, is a 3yo, and an early season 3yo at that. His win in the Cox Plate, Australia's richest wfa race, is the equivalent of a 3yo in the US beating older horses in a G1 in Mar.
Pretty impressive win too.

yeah nice win paid well too.:)

check this out.

http://www.racenet.com.au/news/543/54305.asp

juanepstein
10-25-2009, 06:02 PM
Here's the replay if anyone wants to take a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lr05vYl2Rc

Btw, that course at Moonee Valley is synthetic turf. As someone mentioned in another thread, it's the same stuff also use at Sha Tin in Hong Kong. This is something they should look into in the US, as it also more racing on the grass course without tearing it up.

i believe lone star is getting it next year. thats what a report said at the strathayr sute.

FenceBored
10-25-2009, 06:13 PM
yeah nice win paid well too.:)

check this out.

http://www.racenet.com.au/news/543/54305.asp

Oops, somebody tell Calvin.
Boss was also fined $1,000 for his celebration on So You Think before the winning post.

nearco
10-25-2009, 06:13 PM
This is something they should look into in the US, as it also more racing on the grass course without tearing it up.

Should read "allows".

juanepstein
10-25-2009, 06:16 PM
Oops, somebody tell Calvin.Boss was also fined $1,000 for his celebration on So You Think before the winning post.





did check out the cut off they were talking about before the first turn. they are super strict over there but that was a pretty bad decision.

FenceBored
10-25-2009, 06:19 PM
Here's the replay if anyone wants to take a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lr05vYl2Rc

Btw, that course at Moonee Valley is synthetic turf. As someone mentioned in another thread, it's the same stuff also use at Sha Tin in Hong Kong. This is something they should look into in the US, as it also more racing on the grass course without tearing it up.

Not synthetic turf, a natural grass surface with artificially reinforced soil. :)

juanepstein
10-25-2009, 06:23 PM
Not synthetic turf, a natural grass surface with artificially reinforced soil. :)

yes but turf racing is all about the soil. the stuff drys up real fast. ive seen it go dead(yielding) then go good within two races.

11cashcall
10-26-2009, 12:21 PM
You are right and should we add Birdstone or is it too early?

I think they can only get better as the yrs. get on. Big fan of Smart Strike
as well.

Robert Fischer
10-26-2009, 03:10 PM
classic distance sires

AP Indy is King on dirt

Turf has a variety of options at 9F+


New Sire to watch .....
... Bernardini - Surprisingly in spite of being the undisputed King of modern classic distance dirt racing, AP Indy hasn't sired a derby winner yet. Bernardini may actually be a little more ideal for a late2 early3 and still be a decent stamina influence.

juanepstein
10-29-2009, 12:01 AM
look at this guy out of STREET CRY from down under. what a gritty horse. lok how many times hes ran and he just won tonight.

http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz176/petespocketfull/kohara.jpg

Market Mover
10-29-2009, 12:46 AM
look at this guy out of STREET CRY from down under. what a gritty horse. lok how many times hes ran and he just won tonight.

http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz176/petespocketfull/kohara.jpg

6-5 off odds on a horse that's 2 for 24? how about a price!!

macdiarmida
10-29-2009, 05:33 AM
Storm Cat is nearly out of the picture at this point. He was retired and his last covers were in 2008 -- something like 3 potential foals there. What we are looking for is The Next Big Thing (like a first crop sire in 2009) before everybody in the world notices.

Plus I wouldn't necessarily equate steeplechase breeding to flat track classic distance racing. There have been quite a few sprinter-miler Tbred sires whose get were successful at steeplechasing. Tobin Bronze (remember him?) comes to mind as one. IIRC a lot of Dynaformers were expected to go 10F and farther in flat racing and have not been up to the task. Ask Christophe Clement about this, maybe.:) Dynaformers are very strong at 8F-9F, so you'd really think there was a distance limitation there.

Java Gold@TFT
10-29-2009, 06:04 AM
classic distance sires

AP Indy is King on dirt

Turf has a variety of options at 9F+


New Sire to watch .....
... Bernardini - Surprisingly in spite of being the undisputed King of modern classic distance dirt racing, AP Indy hasn't sired a derby winner yet. Bernardini may actually be a little more ideal for a late2 early3 and still be a decent stamina influence.
Somebody noted an interesting Saratoga stat this year about A.P. Indy - he has never sired a maiden winner at 6F or less at Saratoga. That includes all of the years before they started running more and more 7F maidens. You know some of those owners were trying to justify the sales prices with a 2yo win at the Spa.

Bernardini will be interesting as he was right up there with Medaglia d' Oro as far as interests at the Fall sales. There will be a number of high priced Bernardini's starting next year.

Robert Fischer
10-29-2009, 08:07 AM
Somebody noted an interesting Saratoga stat this year about A.P. Indy - he has never sired a maiden winner at 6F or less at Saratoga. That includes all of the years before they started running more and more 7F maidens. You know some of those owners were trying to justify the sales prices with a 2yo win at the Spa.

Bernardini will be interesting as he was right up there with Medaglia d' Oro as far as interests at the Fall sales. There will be a number of high priced Bernardini's starting next year.

exactly. my guess with Bernardini - is that he may be more able to produce at 2yo and 3yo than pops... also a hunch is that his ideal "distance" may be a furlong or two shorter than AP Indy... Bernardini has the nice pedigree (in a large part due to AP), but his dam Cara Rafaela? being a nice racehorse is always a plus in my guestimation as far as producing decent runners.

anyway is here my eye on some of the high priced foals just off of pictures -

FILLY Bernardini out of Heat Lightning(summer squal)http://www.foaltrack.com/Images/Foal/13/200908092216431selected.jpg
for some reason this classy angular baby catches my eye. Mom wasn't much racehorse 0/13 (as is the case with a lot of these foals) 250k tag isn't the highest, just looks nice to me...

Colt Bernardini out of Lady laika(gone west) - looks nice , don't know the price

colt Bernardini out of Storm Beauty (Storm Cat) - looks precocious enough

colt Bernardini out of Love and Happiness(septieme ciel) - this one not as pretty, but mom could run a little, maybe an ugly duckling

Java Gold@TFT
10-30-2009, 07:43 AM
Announced yesterday, MDO's fee jumped from $60K last year to $100K in 2010. Those sales prices must just have put him into the 6 figure realm.

Darley's stallion fees, 2010

Darley America
Street Cry (IRE) $150,000
Medaglia d'Oro $100,000
Elusive Quality $75,000
Bernardini $60,000
Street Sense $50,000
Hard Spun $35,000
Any Given Saturday $25,000
Henny Hughes $25,000
Discreet Cat $20,000
Street Boss $20,000
Quiet American $15,000
Rockport Harbor $12,500
E Dubai $10,000
Holy Bull $10,000
Consolidator $7,500
Offlee Wild $7,500

strapper
10-30-2009, 12:41 PM
My turf stamina favs are Dynaformer and Theatrical; on dirt I would say I give extra points to horses sired by A.P. Indy, Pleasant Colony (on bottom these days)

hazzardm
10-30-2009, 02:22 PM
Problem with the AP Indy's are they seem VERY fragile. Purely an observation with no statisitical backup :(

Java Gold@TFT
10-30-2009, 03:04 PM
Problem with the AP Indy's are they seem VERY fragile. Purely an observation with no statisitical backup :(
Strictly anecdotal - so are anything that come from the Unbridled line including Unbridled Songs and Empire Makers. And it's too bad because I loved all of the Fappiano families and find it hard to digest the number of quallity Unbridled's that don't last long enough.

juanepstein
10-30-2009, 08:56 PM
here is the list of what the australians are breeding to. they are a %100 turf well almost they do have a poly meet once in a while. since these are who they love of the north american breed i use them for capping north amerian races.

more than ready+
lion heart +
tale of the cat+
berstein- surprisingly
street cry+
flying spur
johar- rare appearances
giants causeway+
thunder gulch
bianconi+
royal academy+
dehere
fu-peg+
brief truce
johanessburg+
fantastic light
red ransom+
stravinsky+
kingmambo- rare apperances
galileo
high chapperal- rare- 4 yr old colt won the cox plate last night- wire to wire.theres a maiden running tonight with a top class trainer.
hold that tiger+
val royal- rare
black minnaloushe- starting to see a bunch.
statue of liberty- been seeing alot of these too.

+ see alot of them daily

this is just from the two cards tonight.tracks are drying up down under so watch for domination from n. american sires.especially maiden races.

if i was in the business of importing. i would import REDOUTES CHOICE horse to america. that bred is a monster down under.

alot of these runners are up tonight in australia.

gonna be a great night of stakes racing in flemington tonight.

few i like.

FLEMINGTON 6TH- $1,300,000 VICTORIA DERBY

#4 MONACO CONSUL.....9/2

3yr old colt out of HIGH CHAPPARAL

hes in the #1 post going 1 9/16ths on a dead track.
.........................
1st race

#10 seguro.........5/1

HIGH CHAPPARAL colt goin 1 mile on the the dead track.

7th race- #11 TYPHOON TRACEY- 7/5 BUT should go up. people migh think the 1 mile might hurt her. ya never know but shes a beast.

4th race- #12 HEADWAY- ran nice last out.sire charge forward is making a name for himself down under.

Robert Fischer
10-30-2009, 10:16 PM
Announced yesterday, MDO's fee jumped from $60K last year to $100K in 2010. Those sales prices must just have put him into the 6 figure realm.

Darley's stallion fees, 2010

Darley America
Street Cry (IRE) $150,000
Medaglia d'Oro $100,000
Elusive Quality $75,000
Bernardini $60,000
Street Sense $50,000
Hard Spun $35,000
Any Given Saturday $25,000
Henny Hughes $25,000
Discreet Cat $20,000
Street Boss $20,000
Quiet American $15,000
Rockport Harbor $12,500
E Dubai $10,000
Holy Bull $10,000
Consolidator $7,500
Offlee Wild $7,500

Street Cry is a little over-rated IMO- I think that his rep rides with a couple of big hits a little more than actual statistics and wouldn't be surprised to see(150K) level out or decline. However he's not chopped liver.

, and Hard Spun is one i'm curious about. Right now 30K is to high if anything but a helluva lot to like in my limited understanding. Speed at a classic distance on turf or synthetic is pretty rare - In my ignorant guess the thing u do with a sire like that is that you can breed him to a really strong turf influence Mare who strongly compliments him. The obvious Mare is Hasili(the one they bred all those champion brothers to Danehill) - although again, i'm talking out of my A$$ and don't even know if she is still breeding.

juanepstein
10-31-2009, 02:00 AM
alot of these runners are up tonight in australia.

gonna be a great night of stakes racing in flemington tonight.

few i like.

FLEMINGTON 6TH- $1,300,000 VICTORIA DERBY

#4 MONACO CONSUL.....9/2

3yr old colt out of HIGH CHAPPARAL

hes in the #1 post going 1 9/16ths on a dead track.
.........................
1st race

#10 seguro.........5/1

HIGH CHAPPARAL colt goin 1 mile on the the dead track.

7th race- #11 TYPHOON TRACEY- 7/5 BUT should go up. people migh think the 1 mile might hurt her. ya never know but shes a beast.

4th race- #12 HEADWAY- ran nice last out.sire charge forward is making a name for himself down under.

#10 seguro- out

#4 MONACO CONSUL- 1st- $7.00 $5.90 $3.50

#11 typhoon tracey- 1st- $4.00 $2.70 $2.40

#12 headway- 1st- $29.50 $12.70 $5.40

Steve R
10-31-2009, 11:26 AM
Street Cry is a little over-rated IMO- I think that his rep rides with a couple of big hits a little more than actual statistics and wouldn't be surprised to see(150K) level out or decline. However he's not chopped liver.

, and Hard Spun is one i'm curious about. Right now 30K is to high if anything but a helluva lot to like in my limited understanding. Speed at a classic distance on turf or synthetic is pretty rare - In my ignorant guess the thing u do with a sire like that is that you can breed him to a really strong turf influence Mare who strongly compliments him. The obvious Mare is Hasili(the one they bred all those champion brothers to Danehill) - although again, i'm talking out of my A$$ and don't even know if she is still breeding.
Here is a comment line from The Thoroughbred Times Stallion Directory re Street Cry. On this basis, the stud fee seems appropriate IMO.

"Exceptional young superstar stallion. More G1 winners at this stage of his career than A.P. Indy, Danzig, Distorted Humor, Kingmambo and Storm Cat."

juanepstein
11-02-2009, 04:36 PM
look at this guy out of STREET CRY from down under. what a gritty horse. lok how many times hes ran and he just won tonight.

http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz176/petespocketfull/kohara.jpg

north street is running again tonight at randwick.

Bochall
11-02-2009, 04:53 PM
You seem to know your stuff about Aussie racing. I'm not trying to change direction, but do you know where i can get pp's for the Melbourne Cup tonite?...and who do you like? I value your opinion.

juanepstein
11-02-2009, 05:01 PM
You seem to know your stuff about Aussie racing. I'm not trying to change direction, but do you know where i can get pp's for the Melbourne Cup tonite?...and who do you like? I value your opinion.

you can get pp's here daily.

http://www.australianracing.com/

its free to sign up. after you have signed up log in and hit the members tab. live video will pop up and all the diferent past perfomances are free to download below the video.

you know i really liked vigor but he didnt get in. so now i dont know. gonna go by the pool and figure that one out. they say its a two horse race this year between viewed and alcopop. with basaltico and master o reilly as the upsetters. allez wonder always puts in huge runs at huge odds but i think the campaign to the melbourne might be to much for him. if i do figure out who i like tonight ill be sure to give you a pm.

early odds at TAB

http://www.tab.com.au/Racing/Betting/StandardBets/PlaceStandardBet.aspx?State=2&MeetingCode=M&RacingCode=R&FromDate=2009-11-03T00%3a00%3a00&RaceNumber=07

SOME SWEET RACING TONIGHT THATS FOR SURE.:ThmbUp:

Bochall
11-02-2009, 05:26 PM
Juan, thanks for the info. Been doing some digging and Shocking and Daffodil are getting a lot of attention. The pools are too big not to take a shot. Great race...good luck bro.

Pell Mell
11-02-2009, 06:29 PM
This is just my 2 cents; most place way too much emphasis on the immediate sire of horses and not enough to family lines, especially of the mare.

A sire may cover 100 mares before he nicks with one, where as, there are some mares that produce with most sires that cover them.

juanepstein
11-02-2009, 09:25 PM
You seem to know your stuff about Aussie racing. I'm not trying to change direction, but do you know where i can get pp's for the Melbourne Cup tonite?...and who do you like? I value your opinion.


heres what im looking at

#1 viewed
#3 fiumicino
#18 basaltico..................gonna love the track. rain baby rain!!!!
20f,21f- daffodil/shocking...shockings a monster- time to step it up

juanepstein
11-03-2009, 12:36 AM
:eek: heres what im looking at

#1 viewed
#3 fiumicino
#18 basaltico..................gonna love the track. rain baby rain!!!!
20f,21f- daffodil/shocking...shockings a monster- time to step it up

#21 shocking- 1st- $12.20 $5.30 $4.00

sire STREET CRY pulls down the 2009 melbourne cup!!!!!:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

nearco
11-03-2009, 01:49 AM
:eek:

#21 shocking- 1st- $12.20 $5.30 $4.00

sire STREET CRY pulls down the 2009 melbourne cup!!!!!:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Finished the two miles like he could go around again. He prepped for this one by winning a 12f race on Saturday.
Viewed, last year's winner, and this year's favorite, also prepped in a race 3 days before the big one, in fact he has raced six times in the last two months.

Man, those Aussies put Europeans and Americans to shame when it comes to running their top horses, they are not afraid to race them hard and often. They basically race them into fitness.

Surprised there was no Melbourne Cup thread on here. No love for Aussie racing in these here parts?

juanepstein
11-03-2009, 02:27 AM
Finished the two miles like he could go around again. He prepped for this one by winning a 12f race on Saturday.
Viewed, last year's winner, and this year's favorite, also prepped in a race 3 days before the big one, in fact he has raced six times in the last two months.

Man, those Aussies put Europeans and Americans to shame when it comes to running their top horses, they are not afraid to race them hard and often. They basically race them into fitness.

Surprised there was no Melbourne Cup thread on here. No love for Aussie racing in these here parts?

i hear ya. i loved the turn of foot on shocking. thought the step up in class wasnt impossible. my horse i wanted for the cup scratched vigor with c brown aboard he scratchs and i then like shocking with c brown aboard. having him placed in the field gave him horrible odds. he was 9/1 down under.

different down thee. they turn there horses out into the field then when they are ready to come back they comeback for a campaign. that horse north street i talked about in this thread ran again today and got another 2nd place at randwick.

yep no love at all.