One World Government

[Pell Mell]

"So, thank you, America. You were the beacon of freedom to the world. It is a privilege to stand on this soil of freedom while it is still free," he continued. "But, in the next few weeks, unless you stop it, your president will sign your freedom, your democracy, and your humanity away forever.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=113219

[boxcar]

Not surprising at all. This would set the stage nicely for The Beast (a/k/a antichrist) talked about in the bible -- the beast after which the whole world will flock.

Boxcar

[Tom]

Obama is the the Antic Christ.
And he was born in Kenya!

[hcap]

Jerome Corsi is an idiot.
Do you guys also through salt over your shoulders for good luck and to ward off evil spirits.

Hows about joining the Linda Blair fan club?

[Tom]

Our convention got bumped by the Bush Wacker's Club. They had so many more people attending.

[boxcar]

Jerome Corsi is an idiot.
Do you guys also through salt over your shoulders for good luck and to ward off evil spirits.

Hows about joining the Linda Blair fan club?

As I said yesterday, you checked your mind at the gate of the state's plantation a long time go. You obviously cannot the dots. Like the ancient Babylonians, you cannot understand the handwriting on the wall.

Boxcar

[ddog]

Sorry , we already SOLD it away years ago. You can't give away what you have not had for decades.

WTO anyone?

[mostpost]

Looking at the graph at the bottom of Jerome Corsi's story, we see yet another example of deceit on the part of the GW deniers. The important line, the line that matters, is the black line. The black line indicates average temperature. That line is going up.
The red line indicates actual temperature. The red line is a graphing of the temperature as recorded at a particular time. I do not know whether this is taken at a particular time and place, or if it is a compilation of temperatures taken across the country. That is not important. What we see by looking at the red line is that it fluctuates a great deal. It changes direction six times in about ten years.
We can also note that it is always above the graph line for average temperature. As long as it is above that line it willl continue to cause that line to rise. Ergo: Global warming.
It is meaningless to point out that the red line is presently in a downward trend. As can be seen be merely looking at the graph that trend can reverse itself at any time.
The green line, which I am sure was NOT placed on the graph by the US climate center, is not just worthless, it is deceptively misleading.

[hazzardm]

Not surprising at all. This would set the stage nicely for The Beast (a/k/a antichrist) talked about in the bible -- the beast after which the whole world will flock.

Boxcar

Wow. :rolleyes:

[mostpost]

"So, thank you, America. You were the beacon of freedom to the world. It is a privilege to stand on this soil of freedom while it is still free," he continued. "But, in the next few weeks, unless you stop it, your president will sign your freedom, your democracy, and your humanity away forever.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=113219

I am fascinated by how you guys cower in fear of a "One World Government", which has a snowball's chance in hell of happening; yet you are blind to how corporations and big banking are taking over the governments we have.
We are already heading that way with the wealthiest 10% of the population controlling 46% of the wealth in this country, while the poorest 50% control less than 13% of the wealth. That is according to figures from 2000. Things have gotten worse since then.

[Show Me the Wire]

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/2444/gwvision.html

I especially like the part about the entire world rising up against America and ithe result.

[boxcar]

Wow. :rolleyes:

Yeah...this stuff is actually in the bible. Do yourself a favor: Beg, borrow or steal a copy of one sometime and read it and try to understand it.

Rev 13:1-9
And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. 2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4 and they worshiped the dragon, because he gave his authority to the beast ; and they worshiped the beast , saying, "Who is like the beast , and who is able to wage war with him?" 5 And there was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies; and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. 8 And all who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. 9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.
NASB

Why are you so incredulous? Why do you ridicule? All it would take is another cult personality figure like BO to lead the whole world astray. Gullible people like yourself would easily be led to the slaughter.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

I am fascinated by how you guys cower in fear of a "One World Government", which has a snowball's chance in hell of happening;

Make an argument for why you think this.

Boxcar

[mostpost]

Make an argument for why you think this.

Boxcar
Have you looked at the world? No one can agree with anyone on anything. The British can't agree with the Irish. The Sunni can't agree with the Shia. The Russians can't agree with the Americans. The Muslims can't agree with the Jews. The North Koreans can't agree with the South Koreans. Who is going to establish a World Government? For every one idea advocating a World Government, there are twenty opposing it. The twenty may think a World Government is a good idea, but only if it is their World Government.

The idea that an international agreement on climate would lead to a World Goivernment is paranoid nonsense. It is exactly what it claims to be. The signatories agree to common policies to combat a very real problem. Signing such an agreement is good citizenship. It is also good sense.

[Investorater]

Could the United States represent the Babylon city referred to in Revelation 18?
Yes, I'm proud to be an American, and have no interest in becoming a citizen of the world, since I personally believe in sovereignty for this nation.

Note some of the characteristics given in Scripture:

Much foreign aid, and large importer/exporter to satisfy the lust of the people.(18:3)

Center of Christianity(18:4)

Excessive crime, etc.(18:5)

Other countries economic strength depends on hers.(18:9-19)

World trade center (18:11-13)

Extravagant tastes(18:14)

Nation known for her music-Nation known for her crafts[Manufacturing capabilities] Nation known for her food production.(18:22)
Her businessmen and great corporations are known worldwide(18:23)

(My interpretation of this chapter).

[Show Me the Wire]

Could the United States represent the Babylon city referred to in Revelation 18?
Yes, I'm proud to be an American, and have no interest in becoming a citizen of the world, since I personally believe in sovereignty for this nation.

Note some of the characteristics given in Scripture:

Much foreign aid, and large importer/exporter to satisfy the lust of the people.(18:3)

Center of Christianity(18:4)

Excessive crime, etc.(18:5)

Other countries economic strength depends on hers.(18:9-19)

World trade center (18:11-13)

Extravagant tastes(18:14)

Nation known for her music-Nation known for her crafts[Manufacturing capabilities] Nation known for her food production.(18:22)
Her businessmen and great corporations are known worldwide(18:23)

(My interpretation of this chapter).

I see you didn't look at the link I posted.

[Tom]

Looking at the graph at the bottom of Jerome Corsi's story, we see yet another example of deceit on the part of the GW deniers.....reverse itself at any time.
The green line, which I am sure was NOT placed on the graph by the US climate center, is not just worthless, it is deceptively misleading.

No. 6 points lower than the preceding point. 5 points higher than the preceding. It can also reverse itself downward at any time as well.

Why don't you tackle the question I posted last year, with data, about all the violations of protocol for temperature collection point? Sure was a huge number of points that were not collection temperatures correctly. In my business, anytime we see something that varies fro the norm we verify the measurement system in use. This is conveniently ignored in GW discussions.

And then tell us what criteria you are using to set the optimum temperature for this planted, that has gone from a frozen ice ball to a blazing fireball in its history. Why is 53 good and 54 bad? :lol::lol::lol:

[BlueShoe]

Not unexpectedly,the libs have shown up on this thread,the title drew them in.The left just loves the idea of a one world government,they would gladly exchange what is left of their freedoms in order for an all poweful body to see to all their needs and direct their lives.The whole idea gives them that warm,fuzzy,secure feeling.

[boxcar]

Have you looked at the world? No one can agree with anyone on anything. The British can't agree with the Irish. The Sunni can't agree with the Shia. The Russians can't agree with the Americans. The Muslims can't agree with the Jews. The North Koreans can't agree with the South Koreans. Who is going to establish a World Government? For every one idea advocating a World Government, there are twenty opposing it. The twenty may think a World Government is a good idea, but only if it is their World Government.

The idea that an international agreement on climate would lead to a World Goivernment is paranoid nonsense. It is exactly what it claims to be. The signatories agree to common policies to combat a very real problem. Signing such an agreement is good citizenship. It is also good sense.

That's your argument? That's your best shot? :rolleyes: Pretty lame. You, too, cannot connect dots or read the handwriting on the wall. You libs always conveniently overlook history and a little item in history called Incrementalism. Important, historic events almost always occur by a relatively long series of baby steps -- one little step after another, after another, after another until....

I will try to answer more fully later on today and make my case, if I get a chance. Meanwhile, think about what the goal and primary purpose is of a "little" organization called UNITED Nations. The operative term here is "united".

Boxcar

[skate]

Have you looked at the world? No one can agree with anyone on anything. The British can't agree with the Irish. The Sunni can't agree with the Shia. The Russians can't agree with the Americans. The Muslims can't agree with the Jews.

The idea that an international agreement on climate would lead to a World Goivernment is paranoid nonsense. It is exactly what it claims to be. The signatories agree to common policies to combat a very real problem. Signing such an agreement is good citizenship. It is also good sense.


I've read three of your post and after each, I get the same feeling.

You ask "Have you looked...?" as if whomever you address, just is not able, capable of your quality, whatever...

Now, i'm sure, you are a very nice, loving and intelligent person.

But, just one example, just one because I'm not so skilled as yourself.

I'm thinking, when you state "all these countries can't agree..." Welp,:eek: , wouldn't that be a good breeding ground to develope "World Leaders"?

Divide and ...something??

[boxcar]

I've read three of your post and after each, I get the same feeling.

You ask "Have you looked...?" as if whomever you address, just is not able, capable of your quality, whatever...

Now, i'm sure, you are a very nice, loving and intelligent person.

But, just one example, just one because I'm not so skilled as yourself.

I'm thinking, when you state "all these countries can't agree..." Welp,:eek: , wouldn't that be a good breeding ground to develope "World Leaders"?

Divide and ...something??

I hate it when someone steals my thunder -- well, at least part of it. :)
Very perceptive post, sir.

Boxcar

[NJ Stinks]

This may be the wackiest attempt yet to trash Obama.

Quack quack. :sleeping:

[Pell Mell]

Have you looked at the world? No one can agree with anyone on anything. The British can't agree with the Irish. The Sunni can't agree with the Shia. The Russians can't agree with the Americans. The Muslims can't agree with the Jews. The North Koreans can't agree with the South Koreans. Who is going to establish a World Government? For every one idea advocating a World Government, there are twenty opposing it. The twenty may think a World Government is a good idea, but only if it is their World Government.

The idea that an international agreement on climate would lead to a World Goivernment is paranoid nonsense. It is exactly what it claims to be. The signatories agree to common policies to combat a very real problem. Signing such an agreement is good citizenship. It is also good sense.

This has got to be the most naive, ignorant and stupid post I ever saw.

I've got to put a block on this idiot because I could go postal on him in a NY minute. In fact, if a revolution ever did occur, the first place I'm heading is ILL.:p

[Rookies]

I wondered how quickly the con side would find this one...

The first two words were enough for me to determine the slant here: "Thatcher Adviser". :lol:

Of course, that would be if I hadn't heard the same selective blather on the Windbag show 8 hours ago! :rolleyes:

Here he be, Lord Priviledge in all his Con Glory (Wikepedia):
He returned to Conservative Central Office in late 1982, this time as a policy advisor for Margaret Thatcher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Thatcher).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Bre nchley#cite_note-1) In 1986, he became assistant editor of the newly established, and now defunct, tabloid newspaper Today (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Today_(UK_newspaper)). He was a consulting editor for the Evening Standard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evening_Standard) from 1987 to 1992 and was its chief leader-writer from 1990 to 1992.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Bre nchley#cite_note-whoswho-0)

Monckton has referred to himself as a "peer of the House of Lords" but is not a member of that body.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Bre nchley#cite_note-2) Monckton was an unsuccessful candidate for a Conservative seat in the House of Lords in a March 2007 by-election (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By-election) caused by the death of Lord Mowbray and Stourton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Stourton,_26th_Baron_Mowbray). He received no votes in the election.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Bre nchley#cite_note-3)

[Greyfox]

Monckton was an unsuccessful candidate for a Conservative seat in the House of Lords in a March 2007 by-election (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By-election) caused by the death of Lord Mowbray and Stourton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Stourton,_26th_Baron_Mowbray). He received no votes in the election.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Bre nchley#cite_note-3)

True, he received no votes. But you cut it off when it mentioned that there were 43 candidates and believe it or not 47 electors.

[Rookies]

True, he received no votes. But you cut it off when it mentioned that there were 43 candidates and believe it or not 47 electors.

GF... True I did. But, less to show that he was shut out in that weird little election, but more importantly that he clearly has a strong bias, as a card carrying Con, Thatcher Adviser and House of Lords member -hardly a bastion of the proletariat.

Nothing wrong with a Conservative bias ( geez can't believe I've written this :lol: ), but like everything else it needs disclosure for perspective.

[boxcar]

Have you looked at the world? No one can agree with anyone on anything. The British can't agree with the Irish. The Sunni can't agree with the Shia. The Russians can't agree with the Americans. The Muslims can't agree with the Jews. The North Koreans can't agree with the South Koreans. Who is going to establish a World Government? For every one idea advocating a World Government, there are twenty opposing it. The twenty may think a World Government is a good idea, but only if it is their World Government.

The idea that an international agreement on climate would lead to a World Goivernment is paranoid nonsense. It is exactly what it claims to be. The signatories agree to common policies to combat a very real problem. Signing such an agreement is good citizenship. It is also good sense.

"Good citizenship" for whom or what? The world? Are you a world citizen, Mosty? Do you have a birth certificate or passport that says that? :rolleyes:

But let's get serious for a few. Your problem, in a nutshell, is your myopia. (I perceive that you suffer from an acute case of it.) You focus so intensely on relatively unimportant details, in the grand scheme of events, that you can't see the proverbial forest because that pesky tree, upon which you have your schnoz pressed up against, is blocking your view. You cannot see the direction in which the world is clearly moving. You have no sense of how the world is changing, how it is evolving or what role technology has been playing these last couple of centuries to have drastically "reduced the size" of this planet -- how technology has brought all mankind much closer together. At the terrible risk of insulting you, nevertheless I must say that as a result of your shortsightedness, your above statements are boringly superficial and out of touch with reality.

If I were to ask you: What are the two fundamental components that bring people together, on this little green planet, faster than any other? How would you answer this? In fact, I think this a pretty good thought-provoking question (even if I say so myself :) ), so I'm going to let you think about the answer while I go and stuff my gorgeous, good looking, unshaven, rugged looking, thoroughly masculine face and muscular body. :) Hint: It has to do with technology. What two technologies have "united" mankind more than any of the others? (Also if you were a bible student, you would know this from what the bible teaches.)

When I get back from din din, we'll pick this up again -- Lord willin' and the crik doesn't rise, of course. ;)

Boxcar

[NJ Stinks]

"Good citizenship" for whom or what? The world? Are you a world citizen, Mosty? Do you have a birth certificate or passport that says that? :rolleyes:

But let's get serious for a few. Your problem, in a nutshell, is your myopia. (I perceive that you suffer from an acute case of it.) You focus so intensely on relatively unimportant details, in the grand scheme of events, that you can't see the proverbial forest because that pesky tree, upon which you have your schnoz pressed up against, is blocking your view. You cannot see the direction in which the world is clearly moving. You have no sense of how the world is changing, how it is evolving or what role technology has been playing these last couple of centuries to have drastically "reduced the size" of this planet -- how technology has brought all mankind much closer together. At the terrible risk of insulting you, nevertheless I must say that as a result of your shortsightedness, your above statements are boringly superficial and out of touch with reality.

If I were to ask you: What are the two fundamental components that bring people together, on this little green planet, faster than any other? How would you answer this? In fact, I think this a pretty good thought-provoking question (even if I say so myself :) ), so I'm going to let you think about the answer while I go and stuff my gorgeous, good looking, unshaven, rugged looking, thoroughly masculine face and muscular body. :) Hint: It has to do with technology. What two technologies have "united" mankind more than any of the others? (Also if you were a bible student, you would know this from what the bible teaches.)

When I get back from din din, we'll pick this up again -- Lord willin' and the crik doesn't rise, of course. ;)

Boxcar

I see. Too much wine before dinner. :p

[Tom]

Hey Rookies, if you can stop polluting our lakes for a few minutes, try something new for you - address an idea instead of just attacking the person. It is so lame to do when you fail to even try to be relevant.

[boxcar]

Hey Rookies, if you can stop polluting our lakes for a few minutes, try something new for you - address an idea instead of just attacking the person. It is so lame to do when you fail to even try to be relevant.

Hah...leave, NJ, alone. He has to get in his cheap shots because that's all he has in his arsenal...burp. ('scuse me, I usually don't do this in public, but some wine with and after dinner can do strange things to me. burp. See what I mean?)

Boxcar
P.S. Hey, Mosty, puddy tat got your tongue? My question too tough fer ya? burp..(On second thought, maybe it's the beans I ate. :blush: )

[Rookies]

Hey Rookies, if you can stop polluting our lakes for a few minutes, try something new for you - address an idea instead of just attacking the person. It is so lame to do when you fail to even try to be relevant.

What's lame is when you try an use a hidden Con as a con.

I think YOU call it a Fact check ! Checkmate ! :lol:

[Tom]

:sleeping: Canada best and brightest?

[boxcar]

:sleeping: Canada best and brightest?

Socialism has produced mediocrity at its worst.

Boxcar

[mostpost]

Monckton has referred to himself as a "peer of the House of Lords" but is not a member of that body.[3] Monckton was an unsuccessful candidate for a Conservative seat in the House of Lords in a March 2007 by-election caused by the death of Lord Mowbray and Stourton. He received no votes in the election.[4]

Wait! You're not telling me he Lied about being a member of the "House Of Lords" :eek: :eek: :eek: I'm astounded!!! I have to go lie down. But before I do; does this mean he may be loose with the truth on other matters? :confused: :confused:

[Tom]

Why not try proving he is lying then? Shallow reply. Shallow.
Address the facts.

[Greyfox]

Wait! You're not telling me he Lied about being a member of the "House Of Lords" :eek: :eek: :eek: I'm astounded!!! I have to go lie down. But before I do; does this mean he may be loose with the truth on other matters? :confused: :confused:

For hundreds of years his title would have allowed him entry into the House of Lords. Since 1999 only 92 are permitted to sit. Theoretically he could be an unseated member. See below:

"Hereditary peers form part of the Peerage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peerage) in the United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom). There are over seven hundred peers who hold titles that may be inherited (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance). Formerly, most of them were entitled to a seat in House of Lords (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords), but since the House of Lords Act 1999 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords_Act_1999) only ninety-two are permitted to sit, although this reduction has been challenged in the European Court of Human Rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights). Peers are called to the House of Lords with a writ of summons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hereditary_peer#Writs_of_Summons).

[PaceAdvantage]

I haven't closed a thread in a while here in OT...is it time again?

[mostpost]

For hundreds of years his title would have allowed him entry into the House of Lords. Since 1999 only 92 are permitted to sit. Theoretically he could be an unseated member. See below:

"Hereditary peers form part of the Peerage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peerage) in the United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom). There are over seven hundred peers who hold titles that may be inherited (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance). Formerly, most of them were entitled to a seat in House of Lords (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords), but since the House of Lords Act 1999 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords_Act_1999) only ninety-two are permitted to sit, although this reduction has been challenged in the European Court of Human Rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights). Peers are called to the House of Lords with a writ of summons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hereditary_peer#Writs_of_Summons).
I see your point and I see his.

[boxcar]

Mosty, are you ignoring good ol' amicable, lovable, interesting me? Hard to believe. So, now...I feel led to give you a couple of more hints -- from your favorite book -- the bible. Ready?

But allow me to preface these scriptures with a reminder that history tends to repeat itself, and that when the world unites in this period of history known as the "last days", you should understand that the precedent was set for this very thing many, many centuries ago, and God dealt with what man intended to do at that time by delaying it because those days weren't these days. Got all that? Okay...ready?

Gen 11:1-9
11:1 Now the whole earth used the same language and the same words. 2 And it came about as they journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. 3 And they said to one another, "Come, let us make bricks and burn them thoroughly." And they used brick for stone, and they used tar for mortar. 4 And they said, "Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top will reach into heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name; lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth." 5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. 6 And the LORD said, "Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech." 8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city. 9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of the whole earth; and from there the LORD scattered them abroad over the face of the whole earth.
NASB

And now a second passage from the O.T., also. This particular passage is a very long prophecy that began in chapter 10 and ended in chapter 12. So, the context for the time period for when this prophecy will be completely fulfilled is the "latter days" or the "last days". And this carries right on down to chapter 12 that speaks about the "end of time" in v. 4. And again, in the latter portion of this chapter, it talks about the "end of time" and the "end of the age".

It's not my intent here to give an exposition on this very long and somewhat difficult passage in places. But to only focus on what v. 4 says.

Dan 10:13-14
14 "Now I have come to give you an understanding of what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision pertains to the days yet future."
NASB

Dan 12:-4
4 "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase ."
NASB

Dan 12:9-13
9 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time. 10 "Many will be purged, purified and refined; but the wicked will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand. 11 "And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 "How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days! 13 "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age."
NASB

So, now, I ask you again to go gird up the loins of your mind and tell us what are the two fundamental technologies that would contribute the most to mankind "uniting". The answer is actually in these passages -- and, of course, in reality as we all know it. :)

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

I haven't closed a thread in a while here in OT...is it time again?

No. You shouldn't close the thread.
Mostpost was once again attacking the messenger and ignoring the message stated in the very first post. My post was defending the messenger, who has sincerely suggested that economics is behind the green movement.
Simply stated, the theory is the redistribution of wealth via the mechanism of "climate change panic." The rich will be giving to the poor.

[hcap]

For all youse guys....

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2009/10/19/tomo/story.jpg

[Tom]

This penguin keeps showing up. Does he work for you? Does he get you your perch? :lol:

As good a way as any of avoiding the facts, I suppose.:rolleyes:

[mostpost]

No. You shouldn't close the thread.
Mostpost was once again attacking the messenger and ignoring the message stated in the very first post. My post was defending the messenger, who has sincerely suggested that economics is behind the green movement.
Simply stated, the theory is the redistribution of wealth via the mechanism of "climate change panic." The rich will be giving to the poor.
Attacking the messenger? Hcap posted about Lord Monckton claiming to be a peer of the House of Lords, when he was not. I said if he lied about that, why should we trust him on anything. You then posted that the House of Lords has recently restricted its membership to 92 and suggested that Lord Monckton might be considered an unseated member. I responded that I could see your point.

[mostpost]

Simply stated, the theory is the redistribution of wealth via the mechanism of "climate change panic." The rich will be giving to the poor.

Or it could be stated that "Climate change denial" is powered by economics. By businesses and individual who do not want to spend the money necesary to address the problem. You might say they want to insure the status quo, which is to continue having the poor give to the rich. In other words the redistribution of wealth in an upward direction.

[rastajenk]

I said if he lied about that, why should we trust him on anything. Which is exactly what some of us say about your homie the Prez. Or, more to the point, when has O'Bama told the truth about anything?

[Greyfox]

Or it could be stated that "Climate change denial" is powered by economics. By businesses and individual who do not want to spend the money necesary to address the problem..

Yes. Absolutely you could say it that way.
But the Peer's hypothesis is that this is a redistribution of wealth of nations.
Third world countries gain. Western countries lose.
With that redistribution of wealth, comes an associated redistribution of Power.
The weak (not meek) start to inherit the earth through no actions of their own.
I made my few bucks the "old fashioned way." I earned it.
I'll help others earn money too, but I won't do the work for them or give it away.
Many years ago Willliam Cooper in a book "Behold a Pale Horse" predicted that these sorts of things would happen. We thought he was some kind of a "nut case." But that nut case turns out to be more on the money than I was.

[boxcar]

Okay, Mosty...just as I figured: You're another empty suit among many libs. Critical thinking is obviously not your forte. If you can't get your talking points from the plantation, you're a lost soul.

The answer to my question should have been obvious to you. The two technologies that would contribute the most to mankind "uniting" are in the Communications and Travel industries. Both of these are fundamentally important. Even the Genesis passage clearly implies this.

God, to thwart man's plans for becoming one huge nation that would have invariably been ruled by one man or one group, put a huge crimp in man's ability to communicate freely and easily, didn't he? Having this ability,though, is absolutely essential in order for everyone to understand one another. But today, this is no longer the barrier that it was back in biblical times, is it? With all the different communication modes at our disposal, and the "lightning" speed at which we can communicate, man has largely removed this obstacle.

But God, in his infinite wisdom, didn't stop with "adjusting" man's communications apparatus because he knew that eventually man would find a workaround. So, to slow him down even further, the Lord scattered the peoples over the entire face of the earth. He separated them. Scripture doesn't tell us how he accomplished this, no more than it tells us how he confused man's tongue. But by scattering man over all the earth, this would definitely impede man's ability to recoup what he once had. It would certainly slow his progress since travel would be limited, and the acquisition of knowledge, through man's travels, would also be slow in coming. But this barrier, too, has been overcome, hasn't it? We can be anywhere on this planet virtually in hours -- not days, not weeks, not months -- hours. World leaders can meet with one another in no time flat --either face-to-face or through such technology as teleconferencing. And do we not today live in the Information Age? We have so much knowledge, so much information coming at us from all quarters that we can't even assimilate it all properly. Our on board circuits are overloaded. And what has made all this possible are the technologies in the Communications and Travel industries.

Did not the Genesis passage even say that there would be nothing impossible for man?

Stay tuned, Mosty, for my next little segment. Heck...I haven't even scratched the surface to my argument for why the world is heading to a One World Government. But you gotta admit, it's a good start, right? ;)

Boxcar

[ddog]

whatever mosty is or isn't .................

Actually people moved around ok long before the current jetliner.
:lol:

But, since you know and say that there will be a one world faith in a one world gvt before your end times, then it's only logical to stay away from anything that holds itself out as that one way.

A circle jerk , like your bloviating.


:D

[Tom]

Which is exactly what some of us say about your homie the Prez. Or, more to the point, when has O'Bama told the truth about anything?

I know!
I know!
I know!


NEVER!

[Investorater]

Nimrod, of Tower of Babel fame, and the son of Cush, son of Ham, son of Noah, was a black man according to Wikipedia.

[46zilzal]

Nimrod, of Tower of Babel fame, and the son of Cush, son of Ham, son of Noah, was a black man according to Wikipedia.
Yes he was a friend of my father aka Noris Panell

Named an award in his honor and it has been given out four times

[BlueShoe]

This penguin keeps showing up. Does he work for you?
He works for Al Gore.He is one of the former VP's partners dedicated to keeping the planet cool.

[hcap]

This penguin keeps showing up. Does he work for you? Does he get you your perch? :lol:

As good a way as any of avoiding the facts, I suppose.:rolleyes:Facts?! Now you wanna bring up facts? Since when?

[hcap]

God, to thwart man's plans for becoming one huge nation that would have invariably been ruled by one man or one group, put a huge crimp in man's ability to communicate freely and easily, didn't he? Having this ability,though, is absolutely essential in order for everyone to understand one another. But today, this is no longer the barrier that it was back in biblical times, is it? With all the different communication modes at our disposal, and the "lightning" speed at which we can communicate, man has largely removed this obstacle.

But God, in his infinite wisdom, didn't stop with "adjusting" man's communications apparatus because he knew that eventually man would find a workaround. So, to slow him down even further, the Lord scattered the peoples over the entire face of the earth. He separated them. Scripture doesn't tell us how he accomplished this, no more than it tells us how he confused man's tongue. But by scattering man over all the earth, this would definitely impede man's ability to recoup what he once had. It would certainly slow his progress since travel would be limited, and the acquisition of knowledge, through man's travels, would also be slow in coming. But this barrier, too, has been overcome, hasn't it? We can be anywhere on this planet virtually in hours -- not days, not weeks, not months -- hours. World leaders can meet with one another in no time flat --either face-to-face or through such technology as teleconferencing. And do we not today live in the Information Age? We have so much knowledge, so much information coming at us from all quarters that we can't even assimilate it all properly. Our on board circuits are overloaded. And what has made all this possible are the technologies in the Communications and Travel industries.
1-God could simply remove electricity from the face of the earth. Sort of what Klaatu did in the sci-fi classic "The Day the Earth Stood Still" for half an hour.

2-What's stopping God from going on world wide radio and TV and addressing the people of the earth directly? Again sort of what Klaatu did in the classic "The Day the Earth Stood Still". Now that I think about it-no radio or TV needed.

3-What's to stop God from promoting you boxcar, to being his official spokesman (maybe SMTW as deputy) and giving you guys credibility not only on this board but proclaiming you his divine messenger and striking down anyone who doubts your high-falutin' crock. Hell, even I would take you seriously. I would have to.

4-Why create this apparent conflict to begin with anyway? God could simply remove industrialized civilization or prevent it's origin in the first place. Put us back in the stone age and eliminate things such as indoor plumbing, toilet paper, TV dinners or soap. Maybe those ways are not mysterious enough?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3f/Day_the_Earth_Stood_Still_1951.jpg/200px-Day_the_Earth_Stood_Still_1951.jpg

Just imagine the guy in the robot spacesuit above really God, scaring the bejesus out of we poor earthlings. The thought of an EVIL ONE WORLD gubermint would be the last thing on our minds! Yeah, robots with laser eyes killing them socialist community organizers, and restoring the American way!!!
Hallelujah!!

[mostpost]

Okay, Mosty...just as I figured: You're another empty suit among many libs. Critical thinking is obviously not your forte. If you can't get your talking points from the plantation, you're a lost soul.

The answer to my question should have been obvious to you. The two technologies that would contribute the most to mankind "uniting" are in the Communications and Travel industries. Both of these are fundamentally important. Even the Genesis passage clearly implies this.

God, to thwart man's plans for becoming one huge nation that would have invariably been ruled by one man or one group, put a huge crimp in man's ability to communicate freely and easily, didn't he? Having this ability,though, is absolutely essential in order for everyone to understand one another. But today, this is no longer the barrier that it was back in biblical times, is it? With all the different communication modes at our disposal, and the "lightning" speed at which we can communicate, man has largely removed this obstacle.

But God, in his infinite wisdom, didn't stop with "adjusting" man's communications apparatus because he knew that eventually man would find a workaround. So, to slow him down even further, the Lord scattered the peoples over the entire face of the earth. He separated them. Scripture doesn't tell us how he accomplished this, no more than it tells us how he confused man's tongue. But by scattering man over all the earth, this would definitely impede man's ability to recoup what he once had. It would certainly slow his progress since travel would be limited, and the acquisition of knowledge, through man's travels, would also be slow in coming. But this barrier, too, has been overcome, hasn't it? We can be anywhere on this planet virtually in hours -- not days, not weeks, not months -- hours. World leaders can meet with one another in no time flat --either face-to-face or through such technology as teleconferencing. And do we not today live in the Information Age? We have so much knowledge, so much information coming at us from all quarters that we can't even assimilate it all properly. Our on board circuits are overloaded. And what has made all this possible are the technologies in the Communications and Travel industries.

Did not the Genesis passage even say that there would be nothing impossible for man?

Stay tuned, Mosty, for my next little segment. Heck...I haven't even scratched the surface to my argument for why the world is heading to a One World Government. But you gotta admit, it's a good start, right? ;)

Boxcar
I didn't answer you because where you were going was so obvious. Communications, Internet, Radio, Television, cell phones all provide instant communication from almost anywhere to almost anywhere. And jet planes make face to face meetings possible in hours where previously they would have taken days, or weeks, or even months.
But that does not change the fact that we are still a world divided. No one is going to establish a World Government, because no one has the necesary combination of an IDEA and the practical power to impose that idea.
Radical Muslims have an IDEA, but their power is limited. When was the last time a Muslim nation won a war and conquered another country except against another muslim nation?
And your reference to the tower of Babel story is just silly. Why would God need to change everyone's language in order to prevent them from building a tower to Heaven? First of all, do you believe Heaven is in the sky?? From what I know, the International Space station is in the sky, clouds are in the sky, and the Van Allen Belt is in the sky, along with various airplanes, helicopters, dirigibles, zeppelins and hot air balloons.
Or are you trying to tell me that an ancient culture had the engineering skills and the materials to actually build a tower reaching to Heaven. I doubt they could have constructed anything close to our modern skyscrapers. So why aren't the people of New York city speaking all different languages?

[ddog]

I didn't answer you because where you were going was so obvious. Communications, Internet, Radio, Television, cell phones all provide instant communication from almost anywhere to almost anywhere. And jet planes make face to face meetings possible in hours where previously they would have taken days, or weeks, or even months.
But that does not change the fact that we are still a world divided. No one is going to establish a World Government, because no one has the necesary combination of an IDEA and the practical power to impose that idea.
Radical Muslims have an IDEA, but their power is limited. When was the last time a Muslim nation won a war and conquered another country except against another muslim nation?
And your reference to the tower of Babel story is just silly. Why would God need to change everyone's language in order to prevent them from building a tower to Heaven? First of all, do you believe Heaven is in the sky?? From what I know, the International Space station is in the sky, clouds are in the sky, and the Van Allen Belt is in the sky, along with various airplanes, helicopters, dirigibles, zeppelins and hot air balloons.
Or are you trying to tell me that an ancient culture had the engineering skills and the materials to actually build a tower reaching to Heaven. I doubt they could have constructed anything close to our modern skyscrapers. So why aren't the people of New York city speaking all different languages?


We can't let this slide.... YOU FORGOT THE SPIRIT IN THE SKY.

That's what box is trying to get you to see!!!!!!!

:lol:

[boxcar]

I didn't answer you because where you were going was so obvious. Communications, Internet, Radio, Television, cell phones all provide instant communication from almost anywhere to almost anywhere. And jet planes make face to face meetings possible in hours where previously they would have taken days, or weeks, or even months.
But that does not change the fact that we are still a world divided. No one is going to establish a World Government, because no one has the necesary combination of an IDEA and the practical power to impose that idea.
Radical Muslims have an IDEA, but their power is limited. When was the last time a Muslim nation won a war and conquered another country except against another muslim nation?
And your reference to the tower of Babel story is just silly. Why would God need to change everyone's language in order to prevent them from building a tower to Heaven? First of all, do you believe Heaven is in the sky?? From what I know, the International Space station is in the sky, clouds are in the sky, and the Van Allen Belt is in the sky, along with various airplanes, helicopters, dirigibles, zeppelins and hot air balloons.
Or are you trying to tell me that an ancient culture had the engineering skills and the materials to actually build a tower reaching to Heaven. I doubt they could have constructed anything close to our modern skyscrapers. So why aren't the people of New York city speaking all different languages?


You're still suffering from mental myopia. You cannot see past your little nose, can you? That's sad. Really sad.

Regarding the Tower of Babel and God's wisdom in confusing the tongues of men, the answer to your question, again, is so obvious. If men can't communicate effectively, how can they plan or do anything of any consequence at all? And you ridicule ancient man, but forget about the construction of the pyramids, for example.

And you can doubt anything you want, but scripture teaches that if God didn't act at that time virtually anything would have been possible with the sons of men. God's plan, obviously, was only to slow man down -- not to stop him completely per Daniel's prophecy, for example. The central purpose behind God's actions was to simply divide mankind -- scatter everyone across the earth, so that man would not be able to unite at that time -- not until the appointed time. And it worked perfectly, didn't it? When was the last time we saw a one-world government in ancient history? Yes, we have seen several dominating empires in the course of history -- but not one empire because eventually another empire would establish itself, rise up and conquer the "incumbent".

Boxcar

[boxcar]

1-God could simply remove electricity from the face of the earth. Sort of what Klaatu did in the sci-fi classic "The Day the Earth Stood Still" for half an hour.

2-What's stopping God from going on world wide radio and TV and addressing the people of the earth directly? Again sort of what Klaatu did in the classic "The Day the Earth Stood Still". Now that I think about it-no radio or TV needed.

3-What's to stop God from promoting you boxcar, to being his official spokesman (maybe SMTW as deputy) and giving you guys credibility not only on this board but proclaiming you his divine messenger and striking down anyone who doubts your high-falutin' crock. Hell, even I would take you seriously. I would have to.

4-Why create this apparent conflict to begin with anyway? God could simply remove industrialized civilization or prevent it's origin in the first place. Put us back in the stone age and eliminate things such as indoor plumbing, toilet paper, TV dinners or soap. Maybe those ways are not mysterious enough?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3f/Day_the_Earth_Stood_Still_1951.jpg/200px-Day_the_Earth_Stood_Still_1951.jpg

Just imagine the guy in the robot spacesuit above really God, scaring the bejesus out of we poor earthlings. The thought of an EVIL ONE WORLD gubermint would be the last thing on our minds! Yeah, robots with laser eyes killing them socialist community organizers, and restoring the American way!!!
Hallelujah!!

What's stopping you from putting your overworked imagination and stupid questions on hold? Nothing is "stopping" God 'cap, because nothing can. The sovereign God of all creation has been working out his soteriological plan for mankind, within the framework of eschatology, from the very beginning. The whole world is God's stage, and no one is calling the shots to this multi-act play, except The Director.

Boxcar

[hcap]

And you can doubt anything you want, but scripture teaches that if God didn't act at that time virtually anything would have been possible with the sons of men. God's plan, obviously, was only to slow man down -- not to stop him completely per Daniel's prophecy, for example. The central purpose behind God's actions was to simply divide mankind -- scatter everyone across the earth, so that man would not be able to unite at that time -- not until the appointed time. And it worked perfectly, didn't it? When was the last time we saw a one-world government in ancient history? Yes, we have seen several dominating empires in the course of history -- but not one empire because eventually another empire would establish itself, rise up and conquer the "incumbent".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis

Psychosis...literally means abnormal condition of the mind, and is a generic psychiatric term for a mental state often described as involving a "loss of contact with reality". People suffering from psychosis are said to be psychotic.

People with psychosis may have one or more of the following: hallucinations, delusions, or thought disorder, as described below.

Thought disorder describes an underlying disturbance to conscious thought and is classified largely by its effects on speech and writing. Affected persons show loosening of associations, that is, a disconnection and disorganization of the semantic content of speech and writing. In the severe form speech becomes incomprehensible and it is known as "word-salad".Word salad? Seems to describe your above tower of babel diatribe

[hazzardm]

The whole world is God's stage, and no one is calling the shots to this multi-act play, except The Director.

Then why does he kill so many innocent people?

[hcap]

What's stopping you from putting your overworked imagination and stupid questions on hold? Nothing is "stopping" God 'cap, because nothing can. The sovereign God of all creation has been working out his soteriological plan for mankind, within the framework of eschatology, from the very beginning. The whole world is God's stage, and no one is calling the shots to this multi-act play, except The Director.

BoxcarGod has intervened many times to set us poor saps straight.
Told Noah to build an ark before he flooded us out.

And if he knocked down the babel tower once, why not do it again, updated for the communication age by pulling the plug on our electric power? I know. Simplicity is not God's way-at least not according to your high-faluten' interpretation....
"soteriological plan for mankind, within the framework of eschatology"


All along you have told us God is the original Soup Nazi.
"No Soup For You!!!"

He can simply deny us the fruits of technology and pull the plug. No need for circular convoluted explanations of Gods' will On the other hand, he could also revoke a few laws of quantum mechanics, enough to screw up integrated circuits. Maybe change Plancks constant a few decimal points. Most of us wouldn't even know.

Planck's constant = 6.626068 × 10-34 m2 kg / s. Simply alter to 10-33 and a good chance the photoelectric effect would be out of a job and maybe the integrated circuit as well.

Or even without changing any laws of physics, God could have also confused and confounded Albert Einstein or Neils Bohr. Or killed Issac Newtons' grandfather. Or kept Thomas Edison as a telegraph operator. Never to invent a thing. No need for major interventions.

Mini towers of babel to prevent the advent of modern technology.

[hcap]

Then there is the apparent dualism of matter. If God changed this to simply favor ONE over THE OTHER, transistors of any size, from the huge originals from the late 40's to the very small on integrated chips today, no communications would be possible. Even old style vacuum tubes wouldn't work. A very small adjustment indeed is all that is needed. No need for grand soteriological plans

Wave-Particle Dualism:

The wave-like nature of light explains most of its properties:

* reflection/refraction
* diffraction/interference
* Doppler effect

But, the results from spectroscopy (emission and absorption spectra) can only be explained if light has a particle nature as shown by Bohr's atom and the photon description of light.

This dualism to the nature of light is best demonstrated by the photoelectric effect, where a weak UV light produces a current flow (releases electrons) but a strong red light does not release electrons no matter how intense the red light.

Einstein explained that light exists in a particle-like state as packets of energy (quanta) called photons. The photoelectric effect occurs because the packets of energy carried by each individual red photons are too weak to knock the electrons off the atoms no matter how many red photons you beamed onto the cathode. But the individual UV photons were each strong enough to release the electron and cause a current flow.

It is one of the strange, but fundamental, concepts in modern physics that light has both a wave and particle state (but not at the same time), called wave-particle dualism.

One way of thinking of a matter wave (or a photon) is to think of a wave packet. Normal waves look with this:
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sciences/Physics/QuantumPhysics/ParticlePhysics/wave.gif

having no beginning and no end. A composition of several waves of different wavelength can produce a wave packet that looks like this:

http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sciences/Physics/QuantumPhysics/ParticlePhysics/pack.gif

[Show Me the Wire]

hcap you are a hoot. Maybe this will enlighten you.

Peter Kreeft explains in his book Angels and Demons:

"[Angels and Demons] can't force themselves into our minds any more than they can force our wills. Neither good nor evil spirits can do this. Spirits do not work by force; matter does. Even God did not force the universe to exist; he simply thought and "spoke" it into existence."
[bolding added]

You miss the point of free will all the time.

[boxcar]

The whole world is God's stage, and no one is calling the shots to this multi-act play, except The Director.

Then why does he kill so many innocent people?

Innocent of what, may I ask?

Boxcar

[hcap]

hcap you are a hoot. Maybe this will enlighten you.....
Peter Kreeft explains in his book Angels and Demons:
"[Angels and Demons] can't force themselves into our minds any more than they can force our wills. Neither good nor evil spirits can do this. Spirits do not work by force
You guys have reminded us all the time that God has intervened throughout human history. The tower of babel is an intervention. The beast is ready to spring into our history. The whole world is God's stage, and no one is calling the shots to this multi-act play, except The Director.
Free will when there is a director? No changing our wills? Is that like the Actors Studio where Lee Strasberg dictates, but Brando can still improvise?

Box is waxing sentimental for another intervention or our "pernicious" nature is leading us down the road to communism. Socialism is all around us. And is against the word of God. I just suggested simple slight alterations to space time to prevent a one world government. No drama no mess just re juggle Plancks' constant, or keep Einstein in the Swiss Patent Office. Presto-chango, no anti-christ, no one world community organization.

Of course conspiracy freakazoids of End Times gotta have the drama.
Better than the Actors Studio pretend.

[boxcar]

God has intervened many times to set us poor saps straight.
Told Noah to build an ark before he flooded us out.

And if he knocked down the babel tower once, why not do it again, updated for the communication age by pulling the plug on our electric power? I know. Simplicity is not God's way-at least not according to your high-faluten' interpretation....
"soteriological plan for mankind, within the framework of eschatology"


All along you have told us God is the original Soup Nazi.
"No Soup For You!!!"

He can simply deny us the fruits of technology and pull the plug. No need for circular convoluted explanations of Gods' will On the other hand, he could also revoke a few laws of quantum mechanics, enough to screw up integrated circuits. Maybe change Plancks constant a few decimal points. Most of us wouldn't even know.

Planck's constant = 6.626068 × 10-34 m2 kg / s. Simply alter to 10-33 and a good chance the photoelectric effect would be out of a job and maybe the integrated circuit as well.

Or even without changing any laws of physics, God could have also confused and confounded Albert Einstein or Neils Bohr. Or killed Issac Newtons' grandfather. Or kept Thomas Edison as a telegraph operator. Never to invent a thing. No need for major interventions.

Mini towers of babel to prevent the advent of modern technology.

God can indeed do very many things, but you haven't you read::

Isa 55:8-11
8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Neither are your ways My ways," declares the LORD.
9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
10 "For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
And do not return there without watering the earth,
And making it bear and sprout,
And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 So shall My word be which goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me empty,
Without accomplishing what I desire,
And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.
NASB

The fact that you believe for a nanosecond that your vain, carnal imaginations and hypotheticals are better than God's ways demonstrates how delusional you are.

As I have explained on previous occasions, God always gives man the desires of his wicked heart to show man what an utter fool he is.. From the very beginning Man wanted to be as God -- that was Satan's best temptation of all to the Woman in the Garden. Man wanted to believe The Lie. (No one could top that temptation -- not even you, 'cap.) And so, in these end times, God will once again grant man his sinful desire by allowing the antichrist (a mere man) to take the world stage so that everyone like you, Mr. 'cap, will also believe The Lie.

Why would you find fault with God, 'cap, when he grants sinful mankind its wishes? Would it not be a cruel thing to deny man his desires? Would you, instead, have God force his will upon mankind -- pretty much what your "messiah" BO is trying to do with the American people?

Boxcar

[boxcar]

You guys have reminded us all the time that God has intervened throughout human history. The tower of babel is an intervention. The beast is ready to spring into our history. Free will when there is a director? No changing our wills? Is that like the Actors Studio where Lee Strasberg dictates, but Brando can still improvise?

Box is waxing sentimental for another intervention or our "pernicious" nature is leading us down the road to communism. Socialism is all around us. And is against the word of God. I just suggested simple slight alterations to space time to prevent a one world government. No drama no mess just re juggle Plancks' constant, or keep Einstein in the Swiss Patent Office. Presto-chango, no anti-christ, no one world community organization.

Of course conspiracy freakazoids of End Times gotta have the drama.
Better than the Actors Studio pretend.

What you forget, Mr. 'cap, is that we're all willing actors in this little play. You're also forgetting God's grace and what the definition of this term is. Since grace, by definition, is undeserved, unmerited, unrequited favor, God is, therefore, totally free to dispense with it or withhold it, according to his sovereign good pleasure.

Boxcar
P.S. Also, I don't believe in "free will". Man lost that at the Fall when he took on his sin nature. I believe in the moral free agency of man. Big dif.

[Show Me the Wire]

You guys have reminded us all the time that God has intervened throughout human history. The tower of babel is an intervention. The beast is ready to spring into our history. Free will when there is a director? No changing our wills? Is that like the Actors Studio where Lee Strasberg dictates, but Brando can still improvise?

Box is waxing sentimental for another intervention or our "pernicious" nature is leading us down the road to communism. Socialism is all around us. And is against the word of God. I just suggested simple slight alterations to space time to prevent a one world government. No drama no mess just re juggle Plancks' constant, or keep Einstein in the Swiss Patent Office. Presto-chango, no anti-christ, no one world community organization.

Of course conspiracy freakazoids of End Times gotta have the drama.
Better than the Actors Studio pretend.

Yes GOD has intervened to help guide us. His biggest and best intervention was sending his son, Jesus to reconcile us to the Father (this event is the alteration of time and space). He continues to intervene through the Holy Spirit to keep us in the knowledge of Christ. I know you do not understand the difference between intervention and the actual imposition of will and the omnipotence of God. If you did you would not be making your above statements. Until you understand these differences you will not understand the concepts talked about in Judeo-Christian Scripture.

As long as GOD continues to guide us through intervention the world will continue, His continuing guidance allows his mercy to continue for the salvation of man. When the mercy ends, judgment begins.

It is a very complex issue, unlike your simple Islamic view of slavery to Allah's will. Any one professing in a slavery attitutde will naturally struggle with the idea of free will.

Also, your statements that God could violate the physical laws he put into place from the foundations of the earth is also a unique Islamic point of view. Unlike Muslims, Christians understand GOD can change the physical law as he is the Creator and he is all powerfull, but Christians believe God will never do this because GOD will not violate the physical laws he put into place, until the time of judgment.

[Greyfox]

Independent of what God is doing or isn't doing,

Lord Monckton has raised the question,



"Should Obama be going to the Copenhagen Conference on Climate Change and committing the United States to Principles outlined in the treaty there with out consulting the American people?"

In the first post of this thread Lord Monckton's views are firmly stated that this will be a disastrous move for the United States.

[hcap]

Why would you find fault with God, 'cap, when he grants sinful mankind its wishes? Would it not be a cruel thing to deny man his desires? Would you, instead, have God force his will upon mankind -- pretty much what your "messiah" BO is trying to do with the American people?I don't find fault with God or even the bible or the above Isa 55:8-11 passage.

It's you and SMTW, that are pretending to know the will of God in such mundane matters as politics. BO is not my messiah. And the very fact that you use that analogy to set up your shallow biblical proclamations, and the commie infiltration of government is ludicrous.

The anti-christ is a human invention drawn out of an allegorical and historical text. Passed down to us in quite a distorted fashion. But if there was such a beast, it would reside between our and your ears, have a glorious imagination and be quite practiced in telling us Gods' will. And scaring the faithful. And speculating on who exactly today-could be that beast.

Know thyself is the key. If you could spot your inner demons, you would not bother giving them such importance, allowing them such a melodious voice of stroking inane fears and paranoia. I know you count the number of angels on the head of the divine pin on a regular basis. But you neglect to avoid sticking yourself in the convoluted process of counting.

Your emotional connection to world and other humans appears to have dried up. The outer keys to the NT are conscience and empathy. That is the horizontal component of the symbol of the cross. The vertical unfortunately is beyond your world view. I know your inner world is for the most part a mechanical intellectual substitute for true understanding. It is quite obvious to anyone having engaged in any real inner struggle. That's where it starts box. Inside. Find the Kingdom there first. And the Shepherd to lead the flock out of Egypt.

[Tom]

Independent of what God is doing or isn't doing,

Lord Monckton has raised the question,



"Should Obama be going to the Copenhagen Conference on Climate Change and committing the United States to Principles outlined in the treaty there with out consulting the American people?"

In the first post of this thread Lord Monckton's views are firmly stated that this will be a disastrous move for the United States.

See how they twist it to avoid having to face the truth?
But, at the same time, using Mao as a reference is perfectly OK. :lol:

[Greyfox]

See how they twist it to avoid having to face the truth?
But, at the same time, using Mao as a reference is perfectly OK. :lol:

Yes. hcap knows Boxcar's Achilles heel. Knowing that he is extremely well versed on the Bible and with a strong need to defend it, hcap plays that tendon on the heel like a bow string.
Once again it is a diversionary tactic to stop readers of that first post from addressing the Question as to whether or not Obama should sign that Copenhagen agreement. It's just that simple.

[boxcar]

I don't find fault with God or even the bible or the above Isa 55:8-11 passage.

It's you and SMTW, that are pretending to know the will of God in such mundane matters as politics. BO is not my messiah. And the very fact that you use that analogy to set up your shallow biblical proclamations, and the commie infiltration of government is ludicrous.

The anti-christ is a human invention drawn out of an allegorical and historical text. Passed down to us in quite a distorted fashion. But if there was such a beast, it would reside between our and your ears, have a glorious imagination and be quite practiced in telling us Gods' will. And scaring the faithful. And speculating on who exactly today-could be that beast.

Know thyself is the key. If you could spot your inner demons, you would not bother giving them such importance, allowing them such a melodious voice of stroking inane fears and paranoia. I know you count the number of angels on the head of the divine pin on a regular basis. But you neglect to avoid sticking yourself in the convoluted process of counting.

Your emotional connection to world and other humans appears to have dried up. The outer keys to the NT are conscience and empathy. That is the horizontal component of the symbol of the cross. The vertical unfortunately is beyond your world view. I know your inner world is for the most part a mechanical intellectual substitute for true understanding. It is quite obvious to anyone having engaged in any real inner struggle. That's where it starts box. Inside. Find the Kingdom there first. And the Shepherd to lead the flock out of Egypt.

The Good Shepherd found me many years ago, 'cap, and has led me out the Wilderness which you love so much.

And for your info, God is very much concerned with the rulers of the world (i.e. something which you call "politics"). God is in complete control of all aspects of his creation, which is what one would expect in the framework of theism.

Dan 2:20-21
20 Daniel answered and said,

"Let the name of God be blessed forever and ever,
For wisdom and power belong to Him.
21 "And it is He who changes the times and the epochs;
He removes kings and establishes kings ;
He gives wisdom to wise men,
And knowledge to men of understanding.
NASB

Boxcar

[boxcar]

God has intervened many times to set us poor saps straight.
Told Noah to build an ark before he flooded us out.

Yup, and who listened to Noah? The people of Noah's day were as stiff-necked as you are today; for they ridiculed the idea of divine revelation, also.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Yes. hcap knows Boxcar's Achilles heel. Knowing that he is extremely well versed on the Bible and with a strong need to defend it, hcap plays that tendon on the heel like a bow string.
Once again it is a diversionary tactic to stop readers of that first post from addressing the Question as to whether or not Obama should sign that Copenhagen agreement. It's just that simple.

Greyfox, that Achilles heel of mine is one of your own imagination. You might want to go back and read post 2. And I wrote that post because of the title of this thread, and because the bible addresses this very issue.

And as far as that "strong need" -- that, sir, is the calling of all Christians -- to have an account to every man for the hope that lies within us (1 Pet 3:15)

Boxcar

[Show Me the Wire]

It's you and SMTW, that are pretending to know the will of God in such mundane matters as politics. BO is not my messiah. And the very fact that you use that analogy to set up your shallow biblical proclamations, and the commie infiltration of government is ludicrous.



Where is this analogy you say I made? Also, why do you accuse without any basis? I never said I know the will of GOD. I explained to you concepts of Christian thought.

Why don't you answer Greyfox's question?

[Greyfox]

Greyfox, that Achilles heel of mine is one of your own imagination.
Boxcar

Imagination or observation, the proof is in the eating of the pudding?
Debates about God's plan, divinity, and so on are excellent discussions to have.
Posters who want to address deep questions about God should open their own threads which would allow reasoned, general, abstract, and biblical arguments. They should consider limiting those beliefs to brief references on threads addressing different questions, imo.

But Monckton's speech, is re: Climate Change and Distribution of Wealtlh. You have pointed out some excellent verses from the Old Testament citing this prediction. To a point it is your duty to defend your beliefs.
Defending them in a thread set up to do that would be a wonderful place to do that.
To a point though it is also your duty, and all of us on this board to try to keep on topic with the original intention of the specific ideas expressed at the start of the thread and their specific ramifications in this life.

Yes, I know you see the Copenhagen move in a similar vein towards creating one world government as Monckton has suggested.
I still see hcap, who knows her stuff too, as using your commitment to Christ which I respect, as a diversionary tactic to keep contributors on the board from addressing

"Should the United States sign the Copenhagen treaty?"

(P.S. I would never suggest that your Achilles heel is your belief in Christ.
It is more related to a blind spot of when that belief is being used for other agendas.)

[boxcar]

Imagination or observation, the proof is in the eating of the pudding?
Debates about God's plan, divinity, and so on are excellent discussions to have.
Posters who want to address deep questions about God should open their own threads which would allow reasoned, general, abstract, and biblical arguments. They should consider limiting those beliefs to brief references on threads addressing different questions, imo.

But Monckton's speech, is re: Climate Change and Distribution of Wealtlh. You have pointed out some excellent verses from the Old Testament citing this prediction. To a point it is your duty to defend your beliefs.
Defending them in a thread set up to do that would be a wonderful place to do that.
To a point though it is also your duty, and all of us on this board to try to keep on topic with the original intention of the specific ideas expressed at the start of the thread and their specific ramifications in this life.

Yes, I know you see the Copenhagen move in a similar vein towards creating one world government as Monckton has suggested.
I still see hcap, who knows her stuff too, as using your commitment to Christ which I respect, as a diversionary tactic to keep contributors on the board from addressing

"Should the United States sign the Copenhagen treaty?"

(P.S. I would never suggest that your Achilles heel is your belief in Christ.
It is more related to a blind spot of when that belief is being used for other agendas.)

And that "distribution of wealth", "climate change", etc. all fits in quite nicely with the topic of this thread -- One World Government.

I think I would have gotten off into topic drift if the thread had been titled "Copenhagen Treaty" or some such thing. But it wasn't. While this treaty(or others like it) could very conceivably contribute to the vision that many influential and powerful people in this world have for a One World Government, such instruments would only wind up being a means to an end -- and end desired by Gore, Chirac, etc.

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

And that "distribution of wealth", "climate change", etc. all fits in quite nicely with the topic of this thread -- One World Government.

I think I would have gotten off into topic drift if the thread had been titled "Copenhagen Treaty" or some such thing. But it wasn't. While this treaty(or others like it) could very conceivably contribute to the vision that many influential and powerful people in this world have for a One World Government, such instruments would only wind up being a means to an end -- and end desired by Gore, Chirac, etc.

Boxcar

:ThmbUp: Well said. I see your point.