OAK TREE HANDLE TAKES A HIT

[exiles]

Per the DRF handle down 15% on track 11% out of state 5% in Ca. The morons think it's only the economy that is driving handle down ,they don't see it and it's right in front of them, quote from VP Sherwood Chillingsworth ( I don't think people have the money right now) Mr Chillingsworth i have plenty of money but i refuse to invest it on the recycled plastic garbage you call a racing surface. These morons make me laugh.images/UBGX/E9.gif

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

Per the DRF handle down 15% on track 11% out of state 5% in Ca. The morons think it's only the economy that is driving handle down ,they don't see it and it's right in front of them, quote from VP Sherwood Chillingsworth ( I don't think people have the money right now) Mr Chillingsworth i have plenty of money but i refuse to invest it on the recycled plastic garbage you call a racing surface. These morons make me laugh.images/UBGX/E9.gif

The racing management is incapable for the most part in addressing the needs and opinions of the bettors. Without the bettors money in the pools the race track would go bye bye. You would think that finally these people would understand the legitimate concerns of the bettors and act in their behalf...NOT!

LOL

[lamboguy]

i think its going to be down about another 21.6% next year.

i would love to know how much they paid off for the "pro ride"?

[Imriledup]

I have plenty of money also, My handle is significantly down in Ca since the advent of fake tracks. Its not the economy. Bettors find ways to bet on things that make sense. If a good bet is available, the economy isn't going to stop bettors from getting bets down.

[Valuist]

As much as I love to rip on synthetic tracks, its still the economy. Just read that in Vegas, numbers YoY are down big. Blackjack handle down 47%, craps down 23% and poker 14%. And that talk that the recession is over? Maybe to the market, not the rest of the economy.

[lamboguy]

i think the economy has something to do with the decline, but i would say that synthetic gives you a bigger decline. i think that tracks likd sulfolk and indiana downs are the benefit from the declines in synthetic handles. i guess i am saying that because i have compared sulfolk on track handles compared to philly park and deleware and they have had a higher ontrack with a far inferior product.
maybe because they have more condion claiming races than the other 2 and thats what people have been used to betting for the last 30 years.

racing is going to have to cut the purses at the top, and distribute more on the bottom, and then go back up the ladder and make a more viable solid game.

in my opinion that is the way to start to solve the problems in the racing game and lack of regular fans. the $64,000 question is will it happen? probably not because the people running the game are at the top echelon and could care less about the people at the bottom. racing today cannot survive on trickle down economy. it needs a build up phase.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

As much as I love to rip on synthetic tracks, its still the economy. Just read that in Vegas, numbers YoY are down big. Blackjack handle down 47%, craps down 23% and poker 14%. And that talk that the recession is over? Maybe to the market, not the rest of the economy.

If you could bet on Vegas tables while at home on your computer......they wouldn't be down, they would be up huge.

[Java Gold@TFT]

Does anyone have the attendence figures for saturday at SA? They had 4 or 5 G-I's with the reigning Queen of Cal racing, the KY Derby winner and many other big names in the limited racing community. Looking at the charts, handle and attendence weren't listed. With 7 million people within 30 miles of SA how many showed up to watch Zenyatta and Mine That Bird on the same card?

[levinmpa]

Does anyone have the attendence figures for saturday at SA? They had 4 or 5 G-I's with the reigning Queen of Cal racing, the KY Derby winner and many other big names in the limited racing community. Looking at the charts, handle and attendence weren't listed. With 7 million people within 30 miles of SA how many showed up to watch Zenyatta and Mine That Bird on the same card?

On Track Attendance was 20,239 an 15% increase from the same card in 2008. All sources handle was down 13% for the card. The economy is an easy excuse, but the fact is that the synthetic track is the reason for the drop in handle. If the economy is affecting the handle so much, why did Oaklawn have such an outstanding meeting in 2009? And why did Saratoga hold its own, even with terrible rain the first portion of the meet? Premier meetings held on dirt tracks will hold their own or even show increases. Premier meetings on synthetics will continue to lose handle. There are too many players like myself that will not bet a nickel on the synthetic surfaces. My personal boycott will continue until they go back to dirt, and this includes Breeders' Cup. I will only be handicapping and wagering on the Turf events.

[statepierback]

I was on track for Free Friday's last week. Compared to the regular Santa Anita meeting Free Friday's there were fewer people on the apron watching the races. This was with a later starting post of two o'clock. I'm not surprised the handle is down.

[fmolf]

On Track Attendance was 20,239 an 15% increase from the same card in 2008. All sources handle was down 13% for the card. The economy is an easy excuse, but the fact is that the synthetic track is the reason for the drop in handle. If the economy is affecting the handle so much, why did Oaklawn have such an outstanding meeting in 2009? And why did Saratoga hold its own, even with terrible rain the first portion of the meet? Premier meetings held on dirt tracks will hold their own or even show increases. Premier meetings on synthetics will continue to lose handle. There are too many players like myself that will not bet a nickel on the synthetic surfaces. My personal boycott will continue until they go back to dirt, and this includes Breeders' Cup. I will only be handicapping and wagering on the Turf events.
I take my personal boycott one step further and will not wager a dime on any tracks races turf or poly if they have installed the crap.I believe that these facilities were mislead to believe that it would be less costly to maintain requiring less maintenance personnel therefore jobs could be cut... i am glad that they are spending more on maintenance and getting less handle and the idiots still refuse to see they have made a mistake when even faced with the evidence that it is not any safer than a well maintained dirt track.A poorly maintained poly is more dangerous i believe than dirt not to mention the lack of studies on breathing the stuff in and so forth...and so on!they get what they deserve especially in cal. where it was "mandated"....mandated for kickbacks!

[Java Gold@TFT]

On Track Attendance was 20,239 an 15% increase from the same card in 2008. All sources handle was down 13% for the card. The economy is an easy excuse, but the fact is that the synthetic track is the reason for the drop in handle. If the economy is affecting the handle so much, why did Oaklawn have such an outstanding meeting in 2009? And why did Saratoga hold its own, even with terrible rain the first portion of the meet? Premier meetings held on dirt tracks will hold their own or even show increases. Premier meetings on synthetics will continue to lose handle. There are too many players like myself that will not bet a nickel on the synthetic surfaces. My personal boycott will continue until they go back to dirt, and this includes Breeders' Cup. I will only be handicapping and wagering on the Turf events.
Thanks for the numbers. I still don't understand why Cal can't post the handle and attendence at the bottom of their daily charts like most tracks. I like to look at per capita betting figures to get a gauge on how many regulars showed up to bet the races and how many extras showed up for a special day or a track promotion. i.e. Saratoga giveaway days have a percapita around $40 while normal weekend days will be more like $135.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Thanks for the numbers. I still don't understand why Cal can't post the handle and attendence at the bottom of their daily charts like most tracks.

Attendance figures at Cal tracks is a sham.

It's basically an estimate.

The turnstile numbers are correct because those have to be accounted for, but then comes the sham number.....there is a add-on for estimated non-turnstile attendance....that number is the sham.

I think after the Del Mar meet, some people are learning that the handle figures with estimated foreign wagering that never hits the pools being added to handle figures are also a sham too.

[rrbauer]

Thanks for the numbers. I still don't understand why Cal can't post the handle and attendence at the bottom of their daily charts like most tracks. I like to look at per capita betting figures to get a gauge on how many regulars showed up to bet the races and how many extras showed up for a special day or a track promotion. i.e. Saratoga giveaway days have a percapita around $40 while normal weekend days will be more like $135.

Oak Tree attendance and handle are at the bottom of the charts on Brisnet. The track with the putrid attendance is Belmont. I don't think that there has been 10K in attendance there on any day this month. Most days it's under 5K.

[tzipi]

Oak Tree attendance and handle are at the bottom of the charts on Brisnet. The track with the putrid attendance is Belmont. I don't think that there has been 10K in attendance there on any day this month. Most days it's under 5K.

I agree. I goto Belmont most everyday and it's a shame the amount of people there,even with good weather. Aqueduct the worst. I just hate the money lost before you even wager there,not that it's probably not different for other tracks. I'm not sure.

$2 Track Ent.
$2 Decent-close parking fee
$2 Gate Ent.
$3.50 Post parade.
Down almost $10 bucks in 2 min to a place you spending good money in anyway.

Food-Bev prices nuts too. Not that OTB and int wagering does'nt hurt.

[Java Gold@TFT]

Oak Tree attendance and handle are at the bottom of the charts on Brisnet. The track with the putrid attendance is Belmont. I don't think that there has been 10K in attendance there on any day this month. Most days it's under 5K.
First, when I check SO Cal handle and attendence on the next day they are never there. Maybe they post them later. Second I have no argument that Bel and Aqu have terrible numbers. I just like to look at what real impact a huge day of racing has on any individual track. Just something I do. How many people really went out of their way to see Zenyatta and mine That Bird run compared to how many people would show up next week when there are no BC prep races. I do the same with other top tracks but So Cal seems to be the least helpful in disclosing attendence.

[andymays]

Just got this from Bruno.

How to fix the 'Handle' my two cents worth

By Bruno De Julio www.racingwithbruno.com


On track handle at Oak Tree is down. Well, that may be my fault. I have played sparingly at the meet. I do admit being part of the problem, but I have a solution. At the moment, however, the affable Oak Tree executive vice-president Sherwood Chillingsworth was quoted in Steve Andersen Thursday column "Oaktree Handle at Oak Tree takes big hit' in the DRF Thursday print edition, "I just don't think people have the money now," Chillingworth said, referring to the recession that has hit the nation.

Well, maybe, I like Sherwood Chillingsworth and Ron Charles, and the rest of the Oak Tree and Santa Anita management. Seriously, I can work with them, we have the same common goals, and that is what is best for their product, the horsemen, fans and handicappers.

So, how do I become part of the solution instead of the problem. I have been very vocal, at Del Mar, and so far at Oak Tree on my thoughts on the polytrack and Pro-Ride.

At Del Mar I didn't think anyone cared about the player's bankroll (no, I don't believe in stats I believe in customer service), and I think in many ways it is being really felt now. In my mind, you have to keep things consistent, which is not to confuse issues with predictability.

I have seen very little difference in the track from the standpoint, inside to outside, but I did see a difference from opening week and the second week. Seemed like the second week the track was heavier, in morning and afternoon. ( I think that may have been the knee jerk reaction of the break downs on opening week)

I did have a filly run over it, Dancing Jeannie, her second lifetime start as she is a speedball, who was adding blinkers. She broke right on top (Friday, October 9 - 3rd race), was wrestled back and kept four wide, made a move under a hold on the turn and then stopped. On the dirt, she would have drawn the comment ''gone'' from the gate, but because of the pro-ride's lack of resiliency and pace friendly-less as we have seen speed horses make winning moves into the three/eighths pole and then really struggle all meet, she floundered.

Thus, some of the comments made caught my eyes from this weekend Stakes fallout:

Calvin Borel, Mine That Bird that finished sixth in the Goodwood Handicap:
"He had a perfect trip, but he got to struggling a little. When I asked him to go get them, he was struggling over the track a little bit. Maybe a little bit firmer ground where I can just let him break, and pick him up easy - Instead of this quick- will be better for him...................He's a lot better horse on the dirt. When you ask him here, he goes to struggling instead of just running. ...."

Did Calvin say quicksand and was it edited out? or did he stop himself? It's OK to say 'Quicksand' Calvin, it is OK, or about Marco Botti, trainer of Gitano Hernando winner of Goodwood Stakes, who commented on the Pro-Ride main track being ''turf friendly''. Yes, ''turf friendly'' meaning that Europeans will once again reign this year on this surface judging by the Goodwood Stakes result.

Brad Free the venerable daily Handicapper and Analyst for the DRF had a tremendous column in Saturday's October 10th edition shedding a light on this discussion even before the stakes results were even warm:

His objective view of the Del Mar Debutante and the immediate reaction and analysis of the bunched field at the wire may have been premature as Blind Luck and La Nez have both come back to validate the results. "Synthetic surfaces lend themselves to bunched finishes. Displays of pure brilliance do not occur, and a bunched field doesn't necessarily mean a bad race'' Free wrote. Baffert chimed in with "you can't separate yourself,'' as he added his two cents to Free's discussion.

Free concluded that 'finish margins and final times might be less important than the fact they showed up and hit the board'.

Free also chimed in on the track trends in his Analysis on October 10. "...if you were on the lead in a sprint or a route, you were not winning the race,'' he wrote. "Pacesetters went 2 for 28 on the main track and only 1 for 20 in sprints,'' but Free wasn't done as he also identified that pressing types who were positioned on top of the pacesetters, or who had first run on the pace, had the advantage.

The whole notion that front running speed is to be completely scrubbed from winning equation is quite disturbing since we buy horses that have speed and are trained for speed. We breed, break, train horses for speed, and yet we have to shelter ourselves from selecting or sending speed horses to the lead on these synthetics, especially pro-ride. So, as a handicapper, you may correctly identify the speed, the lone speed and then throw it out. You own a speed horse and speed is your best asset, then re-train and teach your speed horse to rate. Don't train horses for this pro-ride for speed. Harder said than done. Might as well re-invent the wheel!

So, let's be the solution and not the problem! OK, you got me. I have no idea. Don't bet would be one, but come on! That's not an option, even though, maybe others have gone to such drastic manners. There are other tracks with good dirt main tracks, but none other than Los Alamitos are in my back yard.

So, it comes back to the same argument, Yes, 'Chilly' the economy has been an issue, but in the racing industry we can specifically point to the performance of the Pro-ride and Polytrack. They are the source and reason players are not playing.

So having promised to be part of the solution and not the problem I have a plan:

Let's have everyone bring the dirt back they gave away in 2007, plus if you bring up a pound extra you get a friend in gratis. You show up with your John Deere tractor or bulldozer with dirt and you park for free. Two free Tickets for the Breeders Cup on Friday and Saturday for anyone that takes the pro-ride with them in a bag or in their John Deere after the races. In the fine print you will read that anyone with the last name of Wood will be subject to an intense background investigation.

We can call this solution or promotion: Got dirt?
What about it ?

[Moyers Pond]

Per the DRF handle down 15% on track 11% out of state 5% in Ca. The morons think it's only the economy that is driving handle down ,they don't see it and it's right in front of them, quote from VP Sherwood Chillingsworth ( I don't think people have the money right now) Mr Chillingsworth i have plenty of money but i refuse to invest it on the recycled plastic garbage you call a racing surface. These morons make me laugh.images/UBGX/E9.gif

I think you are the moron with zero understanding of economics.

They are comparing a year when they had a synthetic surface to another year when they have a synthetic surface. Not a dirt year to a synthetic year. So how can you say it is synthetic.

The economy is bad, particularly in CA and Nevada, where quite a few dollars are gambled on that meet. There is also more competition for gambling dollars as well.

Handle is down nationally 10.2% at all racetracks. So this meet is right on par. Even Saratoga and Del Mar's handle was down. If Saratoga and Del Mar are down you can expect other meets to be down.

You shouldn't attack synthetics if you do not like them. Just don't bet them. Some of us are intelligent enough to figure out how to gamble on dirt, turf, and synthetic. Others like you are not. :D

[levinmpa]

$2 Track Ent.
$2 Decent-close parking fee
$2 Gate Ent.
$3.50 Post parade.
Down almost $10 bucks in 2 min to a place you spending good money in anyway.

Food-Bev prices nuts too. Not that OTB and int wagering does'nt hurt.

I don't know how track execs can justify nickel and diming their customers with parking and admission fees. This is a great way to compete for gambling customers. Stick it to them for $10 even before they sit down and make wagers that have up to 25% taken out. Unbelievable! And they wonder why the attendance is so low. Can you imagine a casino charging to get in? The fact is that racetracks are competing with casinos, and other forms of gambling like online poker. They have made no effort to compete. They are still charging their customers to get in, and they have not made an effort to lower takeouts to compete with other forms of gambling. Until they make strides in these areas, they will continue to lose the battle for the gambling dollar.