Is Hall Of Fame unfair?

[tzipi]

Here's my question. Do you think Zenyatta will make Hall of Fame if she retired tomorrow? If Yes than why is'nt Pepper's pride or Hallowed Dreams allowed in? There's other horses in the Hall of Fame too that have just good accomplishments but not the greatest of all. But this is not about Zenyatta or anyone else in HOF.

My point is,why are'nt horses like Pepper's Dream or Hallowed Dreams in the Hall of Fame?

H.D. went 16 for 16 before losing and then won rest of races she ran in . Most were Stakes races.

Pepper's Pride went 19 for 19! Tons of stakes races.

So is this a no,because they are just running against same competition at the same area. That's all I hear on message boards about the two of them not being in HOF. "THEY RACE AGAINST NOBODY BUT THE SAME HORSES AT SAME TRACK AND DUCKED BETTER HORSES!!" OK,well isn't Zenyatta running against SAME horses on SAME track in SAME area when better and tougher competition is totally available to the connections?
This is NOT a knock on any horse. Just why is it that P.P and H.D. are treated as crap and these peoples same rules apply to Zenyatta but because she's more expensive and a higher horse,she's better and more worthy??? And HD and PP achievements are diminished? Don't get it at all?

I thought it was the Thoroughbred Hall Of fame not the ONLY known tracks and stakes winners Hall of Fame. This is not a knock thread(because Zenyatta more accomplished than others already in there) just a thread asking why again some horses treated like lesser.

[postpicker]

To be eligible for the Hall of Fame, a horse must be retired for 5 years. Hallowed Dreams fits that criteria, Pepper's Pride does not. Next, how many Grade 1's did those horses win? None. How many Eclipse Awards, none.

The Hall of Fame is supposed to be for the best of the best. So how in the world can you put horses like Pepper's Pride and Hallowed Dreams ahead of horses like Silverbulletday, Sky Beauty, Inside Information, Azeri, eventually Ouija Board, etc.

While some may argue that Zenyatta isn't a Hall of Famer and I am sure some may say the same about Lava Man. If we look at the whole picture, in six to seven years when they become eligible for the Hall of Fame, who can we put in the Hall of Fame ahead of horses like that. My answer is very few or possibly none at all. The bigger question for the Hall of Fame is will horses with limited careers like Barbaro, Smarty Jones, Big Brown and Eight Belles be elected to the Hall of Fame. If that happens for any of those horses, then we could see an uproar with the Hall of Fame.

[firstoffclaim]

Postpicker is right, how many Grade 1 stakes races they have won is the key to the HOF.

[tzipi]

Well those horses can't win an Eclipse Award because it would never happen and yes no grade 1's. That was my point is it just a divide. Hey your from here there from there. They are expensive,you're not.

Suppose the made those top stakes the horses won "Grade 1's" for their area. Would that make them top because the label "Grade 1",...no. This is not about who's better or not. Just saying how some horses are treated better the others accomplishments are diminished.

I think the EFFORT,BLOOD,SWEAT AND TEARS put into HD and PP's stakes races were the same effort,blood,etc put into "top" or "good" horses races. And that "awards" for accomplishments should be treated equal and looked upon as so. That's all. Is,Racheal,Zenyatta,Einstein,Summer Bird better horses? Yes of course. But to say of their accomplishment(trainers,horses,etc) is not the same,too bad.

[tzipi]

Hey I'm just on a kick lately how cheaper horses are treated as such and just labeled,"well u run to keep us going". Who cares what happens to you. We will fawn over Eight Belles but not mention more than a BLIP for a handicap,Allow,etc horse who ran his or her eyes out for years for us. Just so wrong.
Also why are some "lesser" horses accomplishments just a "yeah whatever" while a expensive ones is held on a pedestal. Do not those horses work hard too? Trainers up at 4 am everyday working magic for those horses. Seems they are passed over in media. Oh well, that's life I guess.

HERES MY BIG QUESTION: Well trainers are just human. What's the difference of training a horse on a higher level to beat high level stakes tha training a smaller level horse to win their top level stakes?? They are both training a horse to win every race and be the best. There is NO difference there,but it shows in HOF that there is.

[46zilzal]

Hall of Fame boards are made up of a cross section of the racing community with differing experiences and backgrounds so as to keep a single viewpoint arising in selections.

Each member accesses, in order, the top three picks in any given category. Some years, the choices are simple with one outstanding choice well above the others. Other times it is not and NONE of the entrants get the percentage of votes necessary for entrance.

Undefeated horses are such a rare thing with there being about 35 since the game began based upon at least a five race minimum down to Raise A Native, Golden Fleece with four. That aspect alone would carry tremendous weight with voters.

[postpicker]

The Hall of Fame is the best of the best, no atter what sport it is. You can take examples in eery sport of a candidate that may be great but not Hall of Fame great. Keith Hernandez might be the greatest defensive 1st baseman in the history of baseball, but as an all around player, he wasn't good enough to become a Hall of Famer. Does that mean Hernandez sucks, of course not. Until someone prove otherwise, he will always be considered one of the best defensive 1st baseman, just not a Hall of Famer. With Hallowed Dreams, Pepper's Pride and Mister Frisky, they had long winning streaks that anyone wishes their horse would have, but it doesn't make them the best or a Hall of Famer. But they don't suck either. With your question aout trainers, some of the best started off as claiming trainers and worked their way up, like Bobby Frankel. Voters have to judge them for their overall work. Trainers like Dale Baird are not in the Hall of Fame despite winning so many races (mostly claimers) in his career. Should he be, tough call.

[tzipi]

Yeah that was just my question. Horses have to be top horses with Grade 1's and trainers must be trainers of top horses with Grade 1's. Wish the "lesser" horses and trainers who worked just as hard and won just as great against their competition were applauded too. I guess its just a money and level thing. Oh well,I applaud all.

[postpicker]

So what your saying is, trainers like Dale Baird and Scott Lake when he becomes eligible as well as jockeys like David Gall and Carl Gambardella are Hall of Famers for for the numbers they put up with lesser horses. Also, if you have a horse with a very long winning streak like Hallowed Dreams and Pepper's Pride are Hall of Famers as well. Hall of Fame is supposed to be the best of the best. There is no shame to being successful with lesser company. Mister Frisky was 16 for 16 in Puerto Rico, came to US, ran well, but he wasn't as dominanting in the US as he was in Puerto Rico. Again, nice horse that was quality, but not a Hall of Famer. Numbers sometimes do not tell all.

[tzipi]

No,I do not think they are HOF trainers. They do some things with horses that are dispicable. Not sure about Lake but Baird,yes. No,I did'nt say every backyard horse should be in HOF.
Just was saying how some feats are better than certain horses feats but they are applauded more because of level and money.

I was just saying a trainer training a horse to 19 straight wins,is that different from Sherriffs training Zenyatta in her group for 13? Trainer has to wake up same time workout out horses in his or her great pattern,keep horses happy,etc. But supposedly there's a difference because trainer A's horse is more popular and running for more money and higher exposed level. So trainer A's job is better than trainer B's?

Hey they're are .260 hitters in the Baseball HOF and I have the same frustrations with that. Guys with better numbers are not because they are not as popular and for other dumb reasons.

[gillenr]

So what your saying is, trainers like Dale Baird and Scott Lake when he becomes eligible as well as jockeys like David Gall and Carl Gambardella are Hall of Famers for for the numbers they put up with lesser horses. Also, if you have a horse with a very long winning streak like Hallowed Dreams and Pepper's Pride are Hall of Famers as well. Hall of Fame is supposed to be the best of the best. There is no shame to being successful with lesser company. Mister Frisky was 16 for 16 in Puerto Rico, came to US, ran well, but he wasn't as dominanting in the US as he was in Puerto Rico. Again, nice horse that was quality, but not a Hall of Famer. Numbers sometimes do not tell all.

Mr. Frisky won the SA derby & I beleive an alw in CA before losing in the derby - not 16 in PR.

[Java Gold@TFT]

In "Bull Durham" Crash Davis set the record for most home runs in the minor leagues - should he be in the baseball HOF? And I know it's a movie but didn't feel like googling who had the most hits, HR's and RBI's in minor league history. Statebred sprint races are apples and oranges compared to any open event.