Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz

[formula_2002]

His recent statement has got to send a wake-up call around the world. But we are the only people sleeping.

Joe M

[boxcar]

Originally posted by formula_2002
His recent statement has got to send a wake-up call around the world. But we are the only people sleeping.

Joe M

You must be alluding to the heavily edited quote printed in Vanity Fair? Methinks the only people "sleeping" are those who are unaware that those remarks were taken out of context.

Boxcar

[formula_2002]

Sorry, guess i was mis-led by this and other stories.:rolleyes:

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz cited bureaucratic reasons for focusing on Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction, and said a ``huge'' result of the war was to enable Washington to withdraw its troops from Saudi Arabia.

``The truth is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy, we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on which was weapons of mass destruction as the core reason,'' Wolfowitz was quoted as saying in a Pentagon transcript of an interview with Vanity Fair.

The magazine's reporter did not tape the telephone interview and provided a slightly different version of the quote in the article: ``For bureaucratic reasons we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction, because it was the one reason everyone could agree on.''

Earlier this week, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Iraq's weapons of mass destruction may have been destroyed before the war

[spotwinshow]

Sorry, I consider 300-400 suicide bomber vests WMD! If Saddam lived in the U.S. He would have been convicted of twice conspiring to kill Pres., contract murder, attempting to shoot down truce keeping pilots, and mass murder!
According to the Veterans Administration, anyone in the military since 1991 is a war veteran because since then we were in a Truce on condition that Saddam complied with resolutions. So we had the right to invade any time he committed violations- which is why Clintopn bombed him!!

[kgonzales]

Originally posted by spotwinshow
Sorry, I consider 300-400 suicide bomber vests WMD!

What do you consider 2,000+ lb. air bombs, cluster bombs, depleted uranium munitions, etc? Sporting weapons? If anyone should be convicted of any wrong doing it should be Bush for deceiving Congress (and the public) and engaging in a war under false pretenses. That qualifies as treason. Let's not mention the international laws broken by initiating an unsanctioned pre-emptive strike either. But since when does this government see itself as part of the global community and not some transcendent, all powerful deity? There still is no evidence of any, so called, "weapons of mass destruction".

KG

[formula_2002]

Originally posted by spotwinshow
in a Truce on condition that Saddam complied with resolutions

If all the nations complied with all the resolutions, it would be a good thing.

[Larry Hamilton]

you want the proof?

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/iraq_wmd/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm

I got thru once, but have failed many times since..keep trying

[Suff]

I don't want to get into a war Debate. But I feel that we were lied to by our Government. I was very Vocal in support of the war. And People went and died in support of my Country...and I honor that and respect that.

But Massgraves....Crazed leaders and Suicide Vests are in at least 50 Countries around the world.

And no one ever said

"The Guys a Bastard...Kills alot of people and we're Gonan take him out"

What I was told....or at least what I heard was:

"Iraq has Chemical, Biological and Nuclear weapons that he Plans to use on the USA"

And although we found a "Mobile" something or other and found some really dirty deeds he committed. I would'nt have agreed to send Americans to die for what we have found. I would have agreed to a viscous Bombing Campaign or an ECONOMIC Death choke. But I'm not in favor of sending American Youths to die for every SOB that runs a 3rd rate country.

I have'nt completely made up my mind that the war was wrong and possibly unconstitutional.....I plan on giving this administration another 6-12 months before I say they FLAT OUT Bamboozled us....... But as the weeks and Months go by....I am leaning that way.

[JustRalph]

Don't forget the big picture.

I think it is too early to start talking about being deceived. There is some intel out there that says most of the weapons were buried in the Bekai valley in Syria, two weeks before the war started. You notice Powell took a nice trip to Syria real fast after the bombs stopped flying. I think that this stuff is so easy to hide and pour in the river, we may not find a bunch of stuff. But it is still early. The bigger picture is that we needed to flex our muscle a little. It has paid gigantic dividends. The so called inflamed Arab Street never materlized. They also now realize that they would never have a chance against us. They saw in living color what happens to the top leaders. Their houses explode while their neighbors homes stay up. They understand that we didn't even perform one night of carpet bombing. If we wanted to we could have flattened the cities. They got an up close and personal view of the strongest military ever assembled. They saw weapons that they had only read about. Example: The predator drone that was flown over bagdad for 24 hours straight and the idiots kept lighting up their anti-aircraft radar. As soon as it would light up one of our bombers from 30 thousand feet up would pound it. The anti-aircraft guns stopped firing shortly after things started. BTW, the predator that flew over 24 hours is what crashed in the river after running out of fuel. This brought about that televised event where the Iraqi's were shooting into the water. We drew them out of the buildings in the area while another drone filmed where they were all hiding. That night they all went to see Allah! The show of force was necessary and has turned the tide of the Arab street. They now know that they are ripe for the picking. Anytime we want.......they can be incapacitated. The goes for the oil rich who support the terrorists. It was a wake up call. It cost us almost 200 soldiers but that is still a hundred less than were killed in the 1991 campaign. In another ten years we will be shooting them with sound waves and making them piss themselves. The E-bomb will be perfected and we will have complete superiority. I am pissed that we haven't found the real live WMD yet, but I think time is on our side. I also agree with the suicide vests statement somebody made earlier. Our borders are so weak those 300 vests could have killed a hell of a lot of Americans, all over the world. But it takes money to get them over here covertly. The Arab Oil Rich will now think twice about funding them. They qualify as weapons of mass destruction in my opine.

Remember who we are dealing with here. Suddenly people are co-operating in the middle east. These same people who made pronouncements about how Americans will be coming home in body bags by the thousands are now glad handing Bush as I write this. It was a calculated demonstration of our military. It had several objectives but none more eye opening. These people are mistakes of geography anyway. They exist due to serendipity. They were born on top of the number one used product in the world. If not for that, not one person would choose to live in the area. Ok,..maybe some would. But it would be a wasteland. They wouldn't have the economic resources to irrigate and cultivate the countryside. They wouldn't have any reason to stay. The so called cradle of civilization would be pretty sparse when it comes to population and quality of life. Name one decent invention or product invented by that part of the world? The society is backward and lends itself to tyranny. The way they treat women is awful and you don't see any womens groups speaking out against them. Because it wouldn't benefit them politically. Jumping off soapbox....... Lets give it a little time guys.There will be plenty of time to be pissed.

[JustRalph]

I hate it when New York Time's Columnists steal articles from me :D You have to read the post above ....to get it. PA I want to know if this guy is a member here?


This from Thomas Friedman in the Ny Times Yesterday......

Because We Could
Thomas L. Friedman
New York Times Op-Ed Columnist
Wednesday, June 4, 2003 Posted: 7:02 AM EDT (1102 GMT)

The failure of the Bush team to produce any weapons of mass destruction (W.M.D.'s) in Iraq is becoming a big, big story. But is it the real story we should be concerned with? No. It was the wrong issue before the war, and it's the wrong issue now.

Why? Because there were actually four reasons for this war: the real reason, the right reason, the moral reason and the stated reason.

The "real reason" for this war, which was never stated, was that after 9/11 America needed to hit someone in the Arab-Muslim world. Afghanistan wasn't enough because a terrorism bubble had built up over there — a bubble that posed a real threat to the open societies of the West and needed to be punctured. This terrorism bubble said that plowing airplanes into the World Trade Center was O.K., having Muslim preachers say it was O.K. was O.K., having state-run newspapers call people who did such things "martyrs" was O.K. and allowing Muslim charities to raise money for such "martyrs" was O.K. Not only was all this seen as O.K., there was a feeling among radical Muslims that suicide bombing would level the balance of power between the Arab world and the West, because we had gone soft and their activists were ready to die.

The only way to puncture that bubble was for American soldiers, men and women, to go into the heart of the Arab-Muslim world, house to house, and make clear that we are ready to kill, and to die, to prevent our open society from being undermined by this terrorism bubble. Smashing Saudi Arabia or Syria would have been fine. But we hit Saddam for one simple reason: because we could, and because he deserved it and because he was right in the heart of that world. And don't believe the nonsense that this had no effect. Every neighboring government — and 98 percent of terrorism is about what governments let happen — got the message. If you talk to U.S. soldiers in Iraq they will tell you this is what the war was about.

The "right reason" for this war was the need to partner with Iraqis, post-Saddam, to build a progressive Arab regime. Because the real weapons of mass destruction that threaten us were never Saddam's missiles. The real weapons that threaten us are the growing number of angry, humiliated young Arabs and Muslims, who are produced by failed or failing Arab states — young people who hate America more than they love life. Helping to build a decent Iraq as a model for others — and solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict — are the necessary steps for defusing the ideas of mass destruction, which are what really threaten us.

The "moral reason" for the war was that Saddam's regime was an engine of mass destruction and genocide that had killed thousands of his own people, and neighbors, and needed to be stopped.

But because the Bush team never dared to spell out the real reason for the war, and (wrongly) felt that it could never win public or world support for the right reasons and the moral reasons, it opted for the stated reason: the notion that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction that posed an immediate threat to America. I argued before the war that Saddam posed no such threat to America, and had no links with Al Qaeda, and that we couldn't take the nation to war "on the wings of a lie." I argued that Mr. Bush should fight this war for the right reasons and the moral reasons. But he stuck with this W.M.D. argument for P.R. reasons.

Once the war was over and I saw the mass graves and the true extent of Saddam's genocidal evil, my view was that Mr. Bush did not need to find any W.M.D.'s to justify the war for me. I still feel that way. But I have to admit that I've always been fighting my own war in Iraq. Mr. Bush took the country into his war. And if it turns out that he fabricated the evidence for his war (which I wouldn't conclude yet), that would badly damage America and be a very serious matter.

But my ultimate point is this: Finding Iraq's W.M.D.'s is necessary to preserve the credibility of the Bush team, the neocons, Tony Blair and the C.I.A. But rebuilding Iraq is necessary to win the war. I won't feel one whit more secure if we find Saddam's W.M.D.'s, because I never felt he would use them on us. But I will feel terribly insecure if we fail to put Iraq onto a progressive path. Because if that doesn't happen, the terrorism bubble will reinflate and bad things will follow. Mr. Bush's credibility rides on finding W.M.D.'s, but America's future, and the future of the Mideast, rides on our building a different Iraq. We must not forget that.

[formula_2002]

Because We Could
Thomas L. Friedman

His focus is changed to Tom Friedman.



http://www.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/thomaslfriedman/index.html

and go back further..

[MikeDee]

from and editorial by Elizabeth Sullivan in the Plain Dealer Thur 6/8/2003

"Manipulating people's darkest worries to mask a lie is what fascist nations do. America is not a fascist nation.

It is however, a nation in need of critical examination of how well we hold our leaders to account for the words and deeds by which they lead us"

I couldn't agree more.

[hurrikane]

so, when they do find the WMD (remember we're searching a whole country..not the mall around the corner) is everyone going to jump up and say

"oops, you were right, I was a stupid idiot. I'm sorry'.

I don't thing so. They'll probably go off crying about something else like flying in a jet or something.

I"m curious why everyone believes everything they read?

[Lefty]

Tired of the lie that Bush lied about WMD's. The United Nations that liberals love so damn much said that Saddam had WMD's and violated what was it, 16 resoliutions?
Why do the libs now want to put it all on Bush?
Maybe it's selective memory, maybe it's that liberals just don't let facts get in the way of their agenda.
Bush did the right thing, it's been proved so libs, please go off on a new tangent.

[PaceAdvantage]

JustRalph,

Excellent post.


==PA

[Tom]

We haven't found Sadamm Hussien yet.
Does that mean he didn't exist either?

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
JustRalph,Excellent post.
==PA

Thanks PA..... I am still trying to figure out a way to pick some royalties from this Friedman guy....:D