If A Horse Set A Track Record

[Horseplayersbet.com]

And then tests positive.
Is it still a track record?

[Hanover1]

No, or *

[Hanover1]

I plead the 5th in regards to any information I may have in regards to performance enhancing substances. This also applies to information regarding trip handicapping...

[Horseplayersbet.com]

No, or *
That is what I would think too. And what about setting a track record and getting dq'ed for an infraction during the race? I wonder how Equibase or the DRF would handle it.

[HuggingTheRail]

And then tests positive.
Is it still a track record?

Hmmm... might we find out soon?

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Hmmm... might we find out soon?
BREAKING EWS…Track record holder HOLLYWOOD HIT has been banned from racing in Ontario for 90 days according to a ruling issued by the ONTARIO RACING COMMISSION yesterday. The rapid 3yo, owned by James Redekop and trained by Terry Jordan, set a 6 furlong record at Woodbine on Sept. 30 - 1:07.38, but has been tested positive for the tranquilizer, Class 3 drug Acepromazine.

Gunnar Lindberg, steward for the Ontario racing Commission, has confirmed the the horse is not eligible to race for 90 days in Ontario - a ruling that would likely be reciprocated throughout North America.
That puts the purse from the stake on Sept. 30 out of reach now for Hollywood Hit connections plus wipes out starts in the upcoming Kennedy Road or Breeders’ Cup.
http://www.horse-canada.com/?p=2844

[Hanover1]

That is what I would think too. And what about setting a track record and getting dq'ed for an infraction during the race? I wonder how Equibase or the DRF would handle it.
Dq stands, horse gets taken down-racetime stands and * posted.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Terry Jordan gets 6 months for a tranq. To me, that is too much of a penalty. I think the tranq rules were in place to stop trainers from stiffing them. Though if a horse needs tranq to ship or train in the morning (to make him less dangerous), it can be debated if a tranq can enhance performance because the horse is less likely to lose the race in the paddock.

Not a chemist, so I don't know.

I would think that this was a complete mistake (not the positive, but the administration of the drug at the wrong time).

[Imriledup]

No

[illinoisbred]

The penalty seems justified to me . This is a so-called "supertrainer"[Jordan] and often where there's smoke-there's fire.

[Hanover1]

Rules are rules, however if horse was a speedball, chances are he was washing out alot, or a handful, and the Ace was administered for good reason.

[Murph]

Terry Jordan gets 6 months for a tranq. To me, that is too much of a penalty. I think the tranq rules were in place to stop trainers from stiffing them. Though if a horse needs tranq to ship or train in the morning (to make him less dangerous), it can be debated if a tranq can enhance performance because the horse is less likely to lose the race in the paddock.

Not a chemist, so I don't know.

I would think that this was a complete mistake (not the positive, but the administration of the drug at the wrong time).This is clipped from the article you linked to.

Acepromazine is widely used as a sedative in horses. It serves as a tranquilizer to better facilitate handling of these large mammals before transportation or surgical procedures. Acepromazine has been classified by the Association of Racing Commissioners International, Inc. as a Class 3 drug in horses. Abuse of the drugs in the Class 3 category can result in 2-6 months of suspension, up to $1500 fine, and loss of purse. Acepromazine has a slow elimination rate and stays in the body for a long time. This can be problematic if the drug is administered before a race event since its calming effect can lead to a better performance by the horse.

http://www.biocompare.com/Articles/TechnicalArticle/1473/Determination-Of-Acepromazine-And-Its-Major-Metabolite-In-Equine-Serum-By-LC-MS-MS-Using-The-Finnigan-LCQ-Deca-XP-Plus-Ion-Trap-Mass-Spectrometer-from-Thermo-Scientific.html

Too bad for the 6 month sit down. I would like to know with greater certainty that these type of rules are uniformly enforced. As long as they are, the penalty is fair.

The article does not address the standing of the track record. It in fact says he set it. I would like to know if this record will be posted or not. That final time is about 12 lenghts better than par.

[cj]

I guess this helps explain his 40% win percentage. Mabye the resident Sovereign Award voter can explain this since he was so quick to defend him earlier.

[toetoe]

A tranquilizer makes a speedball run faster ?!? :confused:

[Horseplayersbet.com]

A tranquilizer makes a speedball run faster ?!? :confused:
It may get a horse to run as faster as it can. If the horse is a nervous sort, and loses lots of its energy get wound up before the race.
Bute and snail venom don't make a horse run faster, it makes them run as fast as they can too.

Of course, the latter two drugs can lead to tragic consequences more than a tranq can I imagine.

[46zilzal]

Didn't the track record come down recently at Gulfstream when Phil something or other was disqualified?

[Hanover1]

It may get a horse to run as faster as it can. If the horse is a nervous sort, and loses lots of its energy get wound up before the race.
Bute and snail venom don't make a horse run faster, it makes them run as fast as they can too.

Of course, the latter two drugs can lead to tragic consequences more than a tranq can I imagine.
With all due respect, we need to represent factual information to the public in regards to medications and administrations. "Bute" as it is called, is an analgesic/anti-inflammitory, and has little effect, outside of masking symptoms of injury/sickness, in regards to speed. It will not "make them run" any faster. I have never heard of snail venom, but I have heard of widespread use of cobra venom, wich is illegal, as Bute is not. Cobra venom is commonly used as a "block". Injected locally, to produce numbing effect, thus masking any pain due to injury. Wont make them "run faster".
A much more dangerous application that WILL make them run faster is either administering EPO, a drug that changes metabolite, and a "Milkshake" wich is, in effect, the administration of baking soda into the digestive tract prior to post-also illegal. Soda combats the natural process the body goes thru when exerting energy, i.e. the lactic acid buildup that accompanies fatigue.

[illinoisbred]

I don't hear much about "milkshaking" these days,particularily in Southern California. Have the "usual suspects" stopped?

[Hanover1]

I don't hear much about "milkshaking" these days,particularily in Southern California. Have the "usual suspects" stopped?
I have no personal knowledge of when and where these guys are/were doing this, but the powers that be have cracked down real hard on even having baking soda, tubes for adimistration, and other associated stuff, even in the barn, much less doing it. A prevailing joke is the reply a groom gave an official upon discovering some 20 boxes of baking soda in the barn: "Its to keep the tack fresh..." :D

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Interesting. Jordan is quoted in an article that "we feel someone did this to us."
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2009/October/11/Hollywood-Hit-tests-positive-for-Acepromazine.aspx

I've always thought that sabotaging a trainer could easily happen in the backstretch. Lots of disgruntled ex employees for example. But contrary to that type of thinking, it doesn't seem to happen.

Now did someone give Jordan's horse a tranq to try to beat the horse in the Stake Race? I doubt it, because Jordan admits that Hollywood Hit does train using the same tranq.

Jordan also said: “I have no idea how he got a tranquilizer before the race,” Jordan said. “Imagine how fast he would have run without it?

Not necessarily so. Many horses get nervous, and lose energy before the race. This is probably especially so of a horse who needs tranqs to train on.
So the tranq probably allowed the horse to run at its capabilities more than he would have if it wasn't in his system.

The question is, how much was in his system, and did that amount still have any affect on him at all.

[illinoisbred]

Interesting. Jordan is quoted in an article that "we feel someone did this to us."
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2009/October/11/Hollywood-Hit-tests-positive-for-Acepromazine.aspx

I've always thought that sabotaging a trainer could easily happen in the backstretch. Lots of disgruntled ex employees for example. But contrary to that type of thinking, it doesn't seem to happen.

Now did someone give Jordan's horse a tranq to try to beat the horse in the Stake Race? I doubt it, because Jordan admits that Hollywood Hit does train using the same tranq.

Jordan also said: “I have no idea how he got a tranquilizer before the race,” Jordan said. “Imagine how fast he would have run without it?

Not necessarily so. Many horses get nervous, and lose energy before the race. This is probably especially so of a horse who needs tranqs to train on.
So the tranq probably allowed the horse to run at its capabilities more than he would have if it wasn't in his system.

The question is, how much was in his system, and did that amount still have any affect on him at all.
I heard from a friend who visits the backtretch at Arlington often that every July3rd or 4th[Ap hosts the local fireworks show] many horses are tranquilized to prevent self-inflicted injuries. Good question-how much and for how long is it still in a horses system.

[Figman]

In New York thoroughbred racing this rule is applied:

4042.4 Results of disqualification
d.) Track record voided. In the event that a horse establishes a track or other record in a race and it shall be determined by competent authority that the chemical analysis of any specimen taken from such horse shall show the presence of a drug which is of such character as could affect the racing condition of the horse in such race, then such record shall be null and void.

[Murph]

The question is, how much was in his system, and did that amount still have any affect on him at all.No, it is not. There's no question it is against the rules. Whether by crook or mistake. Questions like yours lead me to think the rules may not be uniformly enforced.

Thanks for the rule quote figman. That is the only ruling that would make sense to me in this case.

[Hanover1]

Murph is correct.....rules are rules. The issue at hand in MANY situations is the fact that many drugs CAN be used as a theraputic tool with the horse, yet if found in the system at a THRESHHOLD level, constitute a "positive". Extensive research has determined how long certain drugs take to metabolize, and dissipate in the system, and somewhere along the line they have determined that intent to enhance performance in any given event is positive based on the threshhold level as set by EACH state. Example: Lasix. Some states ban it, some dont. The need for a central governing body has never been so evident than today, with these types of rules in place, and public perception declining as a result.
As far as the "I dont knowe how this happened" defense. It wont fly Orville....The oldest excuse in the book. Contrary to popular views, it is very hard to get into a horses stall, administer a shot, and escape undetected. Many grooms live in the barns, and there is always someone around. If you dont belive me, try to approach a horse, and hang around 5 minutes. You will be seen at some point, coming or going.