Sad breakdown at belmont today...

[tzipi]

Was at Belmont today and in the 3rd race today at Belmont the horse Exotic Lady(4 yr Filly) dumped her rider on the backstretch after the race completed she turned the corner and came down the stretch just wil a slow uncomfortable gallop it looked like. The outrider then rode up to her and grab the reins. She then went down to the ground as if she was tired and I guess stopped breathing. They put up the sheets and flipped her over and pulled her into ambulance. Guessing it was a heart attack. So sad she looked tired and had to down to ground after trying to get down stretch.

What's a shame is these horses run their butts off for us for our money for our pleasure and there's NEVER a single thing posted or plaque or whatever to these horses who have died on the track running(I guess for us).

Some people say well I don't want to know or see that OR animal rights will see it. So I guess it does'nt exist or they dont exist is the best way to go about it? Animal rights? Yeah more than HALF these people cry about animals and will not eat them but will eat fish?? Yeah F the fish. F the insects,etc etc. Idiots.


Point is it is really sad that after a breakdown of a AVERAGE or BELOW AVERAGE horse nothing is ever sad right after but if it's a "good" horse its a big deal and sad and things posted and things written about them. You hear people in industry talk about Eigth Belles or someone big dying on track on their shows,in the papers,etc but they WILL NOT say or treat a regular horse the same way. Honestly I want to say to them next time a "big horse" goes down and their upset on their show or whatever the next day,"give us a &^$#% break a horse broke down yesterday for your money and you did'nt say a blip,so just shut it with the FAKE oh it's such a tragedy B.S. and it's so sad when this happens BS" It's proven that horses are treated different by track media because ones "lesser" than the other.

I actually was just mad that there's nothing posted at tracks just saying something nice about all the horses that have given their lives and ran their butts off for us and our pleasure. That's all. Nothing wrong with racing or horses running or whatever and this animal rights BS is exactly that. Just a nice word that's all.

[46zilzal]

We lost one of leading riders for the year two weeks ago when one just collapsed after running 2nd in one of those "just for the Los Alamitos crowd" 3.5 furlong dashes. Horse had been off almost 6 months and then ran a sub 22 quarter.

Vet said the lungs filled with blood as the heartbeat was strong until the end.

[tzipi]

After Eight belles died I posted on a message board about cheaper horses breaking down and that it's just as said and should be mentioned like "bigger" horses and I got a reply off the bat that sad who cares they are cheap horses that run to keep money coming in,its the big horses that bring in the people and big money. YEAH good job by that genius. So without daily claimers and allow,etc there would be no racing till the one big race every month??? That would bring in enough money and people? Makes you wonder.

Man,shame what most think of the horses they scream and cheer their butts off to win them their $20 exacta off their $12 ex play.

As I was saying my point is it's sad they are just discarded by us,media,etc and swept under rug because of who they are in relation to a "good" horse. Imagine Eight Belles just had a small oh well blip when she died. Forget about it.

[lilmegahertz]

I agree with you. ALL of our horse athletes deserve respect whether they are Derby winners or bottom claimers that almost never see the winner's circle. In fact, the claimers are the ones that are out there running even into their 6,7 8 year old seasons long after the big horses have been put in the breeding sheds. I wish the tracks would put up a memorial to all the horses that have gone down on their tracks. Not as a public marker for the activists, but as a reminder to the fans that yes...they were loved, they did mean something to someone and that their efforts on the track no matter what they accomplished in their careers will always be appreciated and never be forgotten.

[tzipi]

Lilmegaheartz you put it perfectly in a shorter article than I could ha.

[CryingForTheHorses]

I agree with you. ALL of our horse athletes deserve respect whether they are Derby winners or bottom claimers that almost never see the winner's circle. In fact, the claimers are the ones that are out there running even into their 6,7 8 year old seasons long after the big horses have been put in the breeding sheds. I wish the tracks would put up a memorial to all the horses that have gone down on their tracks. Not as a public marker for the activists, but as a reminder to the fans that yes...they were loved, they did mean something to someone and that their efforts on the track no matter what they accomplished in their careers will always be appreciated and never be forgotten.


I agree 100%....God Blee them all

[postpicker]

Was at Belmont today and in the 3rd race today at Belmont the horse Exotic Lady(4 yr Filly) dumped her rider on the backstretch after the race completed she turned the corner and came down the stretch just wil a slow uncomfortable gallop it looked like. The outrider then rode up to her and grab the reins. She then went down to the ground as if she was tired and I guess stopped breathing. They put up the sheets and flipped her over and pulled her into ambulance. Guessing it was a heart attack. So sad she looked tired and had to down to ground after trying to get down stretch.

What's a shame is these horses run their butts off for us for our money for our pleasure and there's NEVER a single thing posted or plaque or whatever to these horses who have died on the track running(I guess for us).

Some people say well I don't want to know or see that OR animal rights will see it. So I guess it does'nt exist or they dont exist is the best way to go about it? Animal rights? Yeah more than HALF these people cry about animals and will not eat them but will eat fish?? Yeah F the fish. F the insects,etc etc. Idiots.


Point is it is really sad that after a breakdown of a AVERAGE or BELOW AVERAGE horse nothing is ever sad right after but if it's a "good" horse its a big deal and sad and things posted and things written about them. You hear people in industry talk about Eigth Belles or someone big dying on track on their shows,in the papers,etc but they WILL NOT say or treat a regular horse the same way. Honestly I want to say to them next time a "big horse" goes down and their upset on their show or whatever the next day,"give us a &^$#% break a horse broke down yesterday for your money and you did'nt say a blip,so just shut it with the FAKE oh it's such a tragedy B.S. and it's so sad when this happens BS" It's proven that horses are treated different by track media because ones "lesser" than the other.

I actually was just mad that there's nothing posted at tracks just saying something nice about all the horses that have given their lives and ran their butts off for us and our pleasure. That's all. Nothing wrong with racing or horses running or whatever and this animal rights BS is exactly that. Just a nice word that's all.

I know how you feel and cannot disagree with it, but the question is, what is the solution to your question. Racing coverage all over the country is shrinking daily and the last thing any track wants to do is to publicize anything negative, which would include giving a nice word to every horse that breaks down. Today is a good example, the horse in the third race, Exotic Indy, basically had her left hind leg snap off midway on the backstretch and then she galloped around the turf course to the eighth pole on three legs, where she was caught and eventually put down by a vet before the ambulance with the blue screen arrived and put it up. Also in that race, the winner Bubbly Jane, took a bad step in midstretch and almost went down, but recovered and got up in time for the win. Then in the fourth race, Tony Manero took a bad step on the far turn, was pulled up and then put down. So what could have been said after these incidents today.

[11cashcall]

Was at Belmont today and in the 3rd race today at Belmont the horse Exotic Lady(4 yr Filly) dumped her rider on the backstretch after the race completed she turned the corner and came down the stretch just wil a slow uncomfortable gallop it looked like. The outrider then rode up to her and grab the reins. She then went down to the ground as if she was tired and I guess stopped breathing. They put up the sheets and flipped her over and pulled her into ambulance. Guessing it was a heart attack. So sad she looked tired and had to down to ground after trying to get down stretch.

What's a shame is these horses run their butts off for us for our money for our pleasure and there's NEVER a single thing posted or plaque or whatever to these horses who have died on the track running(I guess for us).

Some people say well I don't want to know or see that OR animal rights will see it. So I guess it does'nt exist or they dont exist is the best way to go about it? Animal rights? Yeah more than HALF these people cry about animals and will not eat them but will eat fish?? Yeah F the fish. F the insects,etc etc. Idiots.


Point is it is really sad that after a breakdown of a AVERAGE or BELOW AVERAGE horse nothing is ever sad right after but if it's a "good" horse its a big deal and sad and things posted and things written about them. You hear people in industry talk about Eigth Belles or someone big dying on track on their shows,in the papers,etc but they WILL NOT say or treat a regular horse the same way. Honestly I want to say to them next time a "big horse" goes down and their upset on their show or whatever the next day,"give us a &^$#% break a horse broke down yesterday for your money and you did'nt say a blip,so just shut it with the FAKE oh it's such a tragedy B.S. and it's so sad when this happens BS" It's proven that horses are treated different by track media because ones "lesser" than the other.

I actually was just mad that there's nothing posted at tracks just saying something nice about all the horses that have given their lives and ran their butts off for us and our pleasure. That's all. Nothing wrong with racing or horses running or whatever and this animal rights BS is exactly that. Just a nice word that's all.

Thanks for posting.

In light of the IWR case before the courts the attending vet testified that these
lesser classed horse's are forced to make it to the gate despite not be 100%.
Its a shame too.Had the case not been before the courts nothing would have been said . Its these very same animals that make up a large % of the entries & are most abused by a % of connections.. I think we own them to speak up not only as horseplayers but fans. NYTimes after the revelation during IWR court case approached all 20 connections of this yrs Derby & only 3 were willing to submit the Vet care records.Interesting if not shocking.

[SansuiSC]

So what could have been said after these incidents today.

Somebody has to go over the two courses and find and fix it's faults. I've seen alot of "mis steps" over the Belmont courses this fall meet. No matter where the portable rails are set. If I owned a grass runner I would be afraid to run my horse.

All said Johnny V's heart was probably in his stomach after that bad step (could have easily lost the irons) and I give him credit for getting the horse up for the win. Who knows how that one will come out of the race though.

[bisket]

on maryland million day i treated my wife and son to a day at the track, and it was very sad to watch a horse named little harbor breakdown just before the wire on the turf course at laurel. i've attended md tracks for 35 years, and never witnessed this myself. it put a damper on the day. she was couragious little filly, and to watch her in pain was very upsetting. my wife still talks about it. little harbor was trying her best and put her life on the line for me, and i humbly thank her, and hope her owners and human handlers have been able to put the loss behind them. i'm sure if i still have a heavy heart about it they feel even worse.

[TiznowfaninNY]

Some people say well I don't want to know or see that OR animal rights will see it. So I guess it does'nt exist or they dont exist is the best way to go about it? Animal rights? Yeah more than HALF these people cry about animals and will not eat them but will eat fish?? Yeah F the fish. F the insects,etc etc. Idiots.




And F the vegetables. The poor, helpless little vegetables, who can't even run.

[tzipi]

Postpicker said,"Well what could've been said today about these horses?"

How about their accomplishments on the track,whatever they were,and maybe who they were out of and thanks for busting your butt for us. But nope,on to next race and who looks "good". If it was a big horse they'd have plenty to say after.

Im sorry,but just a shame how they are discarded like they never existed.

[RXB]

Was at Belmont today and in the 3rd race today at Belmont the horse Exotic Lady(4 yr Filly) dumped her rider on the backstretch after the race completed she turned the corner and came down the stretch just wil a slow uncomfortable gallop it looked like. The outrider then rode up to her and grab the reins. She then went down to the ground as if she was tired and I guess stopped breathing. They put up the sheets and flipped her over and pulled her into ambulance. Guessing it was a heart attack. So sad she looked tired and had to down to ground after trying to get down stretch.


Actually, it wasn't a heart attack and it didn't happen after the race. Exotic Indy's left hind leg snapped like a twig on the backstretch. It was a gruesome sight.

Nonetheless, we know these things happen and while it's unpleasant, it doesn't stop most of us from playing.

[postpicker]

Postpicker said,"Well what could've been said today about these horses?"

How about their accomplishments on the track,whatever they were,and maybe who they were out of and thanks for busting your butt for us. But nope,on to next race and who looks "good". If it was a big horse they'd have plenty to say after.

Im sorry,but just a shame how they are discarded like they never existed.

Racing is lucky to get whatever space it has in newspapers. If I tried to put in print what you suggest, my editor would have a coronary and ask me what the hell is my problem. The editor would remove that and use that space for baseball playoffs or another sport that is newsworthy. For what you want is better served on a bulletin board or a blog where spacing is not a problem. But just because you may not see it in print, that doesn't mean we don't think it or don't care about these horses.

[WinterTriangle]

what is the solution to your question.....

what could have been said after these incidents today.

I believe the OP wasn't asking for a solution, just a behavior. That behavior being recognition when a horse goes down.

If I was watching or wagering a race, and a horse goes down, I always post about it.

I realize some might find that depressing, but I read every thread on forums about a horse going down, bow my head a little, feel something for them. I think it's important to at least commemorate them in some way, at least in my own heart, before moving on to....... NEXT!

Of course, sentimentality doesn't *do* anything. One of the things I do is that if my wager includes a horse that went down, I DONATE whatever I wagered on that horse, or on that race. It's not a lot, but that's how thoroughbred rescue/retirement works....every little bit helps!!! Pressing a Paypal button after a day at the track, on one of the rescue sites, isn't that difficult. Imagine how much $$ would pour in, in drips and drabs, that way!!!!!.

If everyone who wagers got into this *habit*, like a little chore you do at the end of your day, thoroughbred retirement orgs would benefit greatly.

[Nitro]

I feel sorry for all you pet lovers out there who think of these animals as just that “pets”. Get over it! They’re RACE HORSES! Sure we all love our pets, but come on now lets get real! How many of these horses out of the thousands that race every year, actually break down and die? Come on folks these animals don’t even know they exist! All they know how to do is RUN, and they love doing just that.

If you want to make some worthwhile contributions, then give to the disabled jockey fund. Yes, these are the HUMAN beings who risk their lives for our enjoyment and wagering pleasures. When will you people realize how much more important a single human life is worth compared to even a thousand animals of any description?!

As far as I’m concerned these type of comments play right into mentalities and agendas of those who would love to abolish our game entirely!
Please give it a rest!

[FenceBored]

I feel sorry for all you pet lovers out there who think of these animals as just that “pets”. Get over it! They’re RACE HORSES! Sure we all love our pets, but come on now lets get real! How many of these horses out of the thousands that race every year, actually break down and die? Come on folks these animals don’t even know they exist! All they know how to do is RUN, and they love doing just that.

If you want to make some worthwhile contributions, then give to the disabled jockey fund. Yes, these are the HUMAN beings who risk their lives for our enjoyment and wagering pleasures. When will you people realize how much more important a single human life is worth compared to even a thousand animals of any description?!


As far as I’m concerned these type of comments play right into mentalities and agendas of those who would love to abolish our game entirely!
Please give it a rest!

You know, that's what I was thinking as I read the rest of your post.

[lilmegahertz]

I believe the OP wasn't asking for a solution, just a behavior. That behavior being recognition when a horse goes down.

If I was watching or wagering a race, and a horse goes down, I always post about it.

I realize some might find that depressing, but I read every thread on forums about a horse going down, bow my head a little, feel something for them. I think it's important to at least commemorate them in some way, at least in my own heart, before moving on to....... NEXT!

Of course, sentimentality doesn't *do* anything. One of the things I do is that if my wager includes a horse that went down, I DONATE whatever I wagered on that horse, or on that race. It's not a lot, but that's how thoroughbred rescue/retirement works....every little bit helps!!! Pressing a Paypal button after a day at the track, on one of the rescue sites, isn't that difficult. Imagine how much $$ would pour in, in drips and drabs, that way!!!!!.


If everyone who wagers got into this *habit*, like a little chore you do at the end of your day, thoroughbred retirement orgs would benefit greatly.


Well said...:ThmbUp:

[joanied]

I feel sorry for all you pet lovers out there who think of these animals as just that “pets”. Get over it! They’re RACE HORSES! Sure we all love our pets, but come on now lets get real! How many of these horses out of the thousands that race every year, actually break down and die? Come on folks these animals don’t even know they exist! All they know how to do is RUN, and they love doing just that.

If you want to make some worthwhile contributions, then give to the disabled jockey fund. Yes, these are the HUMAN beings who risk their lives for our enjoyment and wagering pleasures. When will you people realize how much more important a single human life is worth compared to even a thousand animals of any description?!

As far as I’m concerned these type of comments play right into mentalities and agendas of those who would love to abolish our game entirely!
Please give it a rest!

"get over it"....are you serious?? Yeah...they are race horses...they are living, breathing animals with hearts...and they feel.
It matters not that out of thousands that run, a few break down...you cannot make it better by using percentages...and no one here is even trying to put the horses before the jockeys...if a jock gets hurt, or, God Forbid, we have a death, we here at PA acknowledge that the same as we do the horses...you actually insult everyone here with a statement like that...as if we don't care about the jockeys...give me a break.

ONE horse breaking down, be it a champion or a claimer... we acknowledge that because we love these animals. They give us all they have, and unlike the human riders...who have a choice as to wether or not they want to risk injury or death...these horses go out there every day at our bidding...and when one dies as a result, the right thing to do is to acknowledge that horse and allow the emotion of saddness reflect that.

[CryingForTheHorses]

I agree with you. ALL of our horse athletes deserve respect whether they are Derby winners or bottom claimers that almost never see the winner's circle. In fact, the claimers are the ones that are out there running even into their 6,7 8 year old seasons long after the big horses have been put in the breeding sheds. I wish the tracks would put up a memorial to all the horses that have gone down on their tracks. Not as a public marker for the activists, but as a reminder to the fans that yes...they were loved, they did mean something to someone and that their efforts on the track no matter what they accomplished in their careers will always be appreciated and never be forgotten.


Something that has always me me wonder about owners and other trainers..I claimed a 10yo horse who was with his previous owners for 5 yrs...He made them almost 500k...I claimed him for 5k!!!!. These people who owned him should be ASHAMED.I was very lucky with him,I did squeeze a couple of wins from him..On my birthday and x-mas eve which are both in Dec..He now resides at Old friends in Ky....My point being is how much money does a poor horse have to make or how bad do his problems have to get before someone finally says enough..I have claimed many young and old horses,Done very well with them and find them new homes..Horses all have problems and sound ones also break down..The problem is greed and with no respect for a living creature.

[Show Me the Wire]

The problem is greed and with no respect for a living creature.

:ThmbUp: Spot on. Thanks for being respectful to our companions.

[castaway01]

The other problem right now is there are too many horses being bred that people can't afford to feed. I know fewer foals may lead to even smaller field sizes, but right now it's leading to horses being turned loose in fields out west to fend for themselves, and that is not a better situation.

The whole thing is a contradiction---there is a lot in racing that is harsh or even cruel to the horse, yet the thoroughbred itself was bred to be a racehorse by its owner or breeders. I haven't figured out how to solve this moral problem and don't have an answer, but we just have to treat the horses we have as well as possible.

[jognlope]

Let's see, nitro, they are just racehorses, run their hearts out, literally, and what I should like people better? We should bow down to them. We will never be them. They don't change with the times, while the times get hoary for lack of better words. We not only love them, we put them on an even more sacred level as time passes. Maybe Nitro you should go the forum for hunters?

[joanied]

Something that has always me me wonder about owners and other trainers..I claimed a 10yo horse who was with his previous owners for 5 yrs...He made them almost 500k...I claimed him for 5k!!!!. These people who owned him should be ASHAMED.I was very lucky with him,I did squeeze a couple of wins from him..On my birthday and x-mas eve which are both in Dec..He now resides at Old friends in Ky....My point being is how much money does a poor horse have to make or how bad do his problems have to get before someone finally says enough..I have claimed many young and old horses,Done very well with them and find them new homes..Horses all have problems and sound ones also break down..The problem is greed and with no respect for a living creature.

If every owner were like you...every horse would have a happy life.
:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[lilmegahertz]

Something that has always me me wonder about owners and other trainers..I claimed a 10yo horse who was with his previous owners for 5 yrs...He made them almost 500k...I claimed him for 5k!!!!. These people who owned him should be ASHAMED.I was very lucky with him,I did squeeze a couple of wins from him..On my birthday and x-mas eve which are both in Dec..He now resides at Old friends in Ky....My point being is how much money does a poor horse have to make or how bad do his problems have to get before someone finally says enough..I have claimed many young and old horses,Done very well with them and find them new homes..Horses all have problems and sound ones also break down..The problem is greed and with no respect for a living creature.

I truly wish with all my heart that at the end of the career, they all get nice retirements. Sadly this is not the case. Thank you for doing the right thing for your horses. :ThmbUp:

[tucker6]

You know, that's what I was thinking as I read the rest of your post.
you, sir, took the words right out of my fingers. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

What a horrible person Nitro must be to have such a cavalier attitude toward a living thing. Beyond disgusting.

[tucker6]

"get over it"....are you serious?? Yeah...they are race horses...they are living, breathing animals with hearts...and they feel.
It matters not that out of thousands that run, a few break down...you cannot make it better by using percentages...and no one here is even trying to put the horses before the jockeys...if a jock gets hurt, or, God Forbid, we have a death, we here at PA acknowledge that the same as we do the horses...you actually insult everyone here with a statement like that...as if we don't care about the jockeys...give me a break.

ONE horse breaking down, be it a champion or a claimer... we acknowledge that because we love these animals. They give us all they have, and unlike the human riders...who have a choice as to wether or not they want to risk injury or death...these horses go out there every day at our bidding...and when one dies as a result, the right thing to do is to acknowledge that horse and allow the emotion of saddness reflect that.
You're a great gal Joanie. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[jognlope]

Lilmegahertz, some day maybe we'll here you talking about trail riding one of them!!

[tzipi]

I feel sorry for all you pet lovers out there who think of these animals as just that “pets”. Get over it! They’re RACE HORSES! Sure we all love our pets, but come on now lets get real! How many of these horses out of the thousands that race every year, actually break down and die? Come on folks these animals don’t even know they exist! All they know how to do is RUN, and they love doing just that.

If you want to make some worthwhile contributions, then give to the disabled jockey fund. Yes, these are the HUMAN beings who risk their lives for our enjoyment and wagering pleasures. When will you people realize how much more important a single human life is worth compared to even a thousand animals of any description?!

As far as I’m concerned these type of comments play right into mentalities and agendas of those who would love to abolish our game entirely!
Please give it a rest!


Yup good job. Did I say Pets at all?? No. "Worthwhile contributions to jockey funds" Hey genius I do. I also contribute to the Throughbred Retirement Foundation. I never said a or the horse was horse my pet. They are animals running and putting their butts on the line for you and your horrible plays everyday.

Did'nt I say the animal rights people were crazy and it's ridiculous how they are mostly?? Yea I did. Read the whole post instead of just getting bored and making up what you think it says. Your attitude towards horses is horrible. Never said animal right BS. I said there should be something for the horses who have died running for OUR money that says thanks for busting your butt out there. That's all.


HOW anyone could be against a post just saying hey it's a shame horses that have died get no recognition unless they are in the 1% of "big time" horses is horrible. All the post said was treat them as equals.

Nitro,did you trash Eight Belles and Barbaro as stupid pets and it being ridiculous when people wrote their threads about R.I.P and nice things about them and how it's sad. Hmmm

[lilmegahertz]

Lilmegahertz, some day maybe we'll here you talking about trail riding one of them!!

Funny you mention that but a few weeks ago I read in our local paper about these folks claiming racehorses then re-training them to work with disabled children here in Oklahoma. Helping disabled children, trail riding, yes there are still things that these athletes can do after they retire.

And Joanie D.....great reply to Nitro. :ThmbUp:

[jognlope]

there's a bunch of help on the net for retrainign OTTBs. youtube, too. Some of the girls on another forum I'm on brave it.

[lilmegahertz]

Tzipi....thank you for showing compassion to the animal in the sport. It is hard to see one go down whether you see it at the track or on tv. No matter what some say, animals DO feel emotions. Just because they cannot "ha-ha" does not mean they cannot feel joy. Just because they cannot "wah" does not mean they do not feel sadness or pain. And yes...even if raised in same households under same living conditions, they still have distinct personalities. I believe most here do feel for a horse that goes down. It is a tragic part of our sport that I wish could be prevented. I love a day when they all come home safe. Just keep helping Old Friends, etc or however you wish to help the ones that do finish their last race a chance to get to a dignified retirement.

[tzipi]

Yeah I was just in shock someone has such a negative and horrible comment and got pissed about a post just saying,hey it would be nice if they treated all horses the same when they broke down and not just cried over just expensive horses and it would be nice if they put something up just saying a little something for all the horses who were out there busting their butt for us. That's all it said.

[Brogan]

Something that has always me me wonder about owners and other trainers..I claimed a 10yo horse who was with his previous owners for 5 yrs...He made them almost 500k...I claimed him for 5k!!!!. These people who owned him should be ASHAMED.I was very lucky with him,I did squeeze a couple of wins from him..On my birthday and x-mas eve which are both in Dec..He now resides at Old friends in Ky....My point being is how much money does a poor horse have to make or how bad do his problems have to get before someone finally says enough..I have claimed many young and old horses,Done very well with them and find them new homes..Horses all have problems and sound ones also break down..The problem is greed and with no respect for a living creature.
Are you saying this was horse being abused running in $5k claimers?

Assuming the horse was being treated right and reasonably sound (you kept running him so he must have been sound and fit) he was probably running at the level where he competitive.

Most race horses I've been around seem to be the happiest when they are on the track, either training or competing.

Short of abuse or neglect, I don't get why the former owners are in the wrong.

[Nitro]

By Castaway01
The whole thing is a contradiction---there is a lot in racing that is harsh or even cruel to the horse, yet the thoroughbred itself was bred to be a racehorse by its owner or breeders. I haven't figured out how to solve this moral problem and don't have an answer, but we just have to treat the horses we have as well as possible. Wow! I sure ruffled some feathers, but the only “contradiction” I see are the so-called compassionate comments on this thread! There's no contradiction or irony in breeding racehorses to RACE. Does anyone here really believe that the majority of owners and trainers are intentionally “harsh or even cruel” to their horses by giving them the opportunity to do what they were bred to do? After all these people have invested a lot more time and money in their end of the game then those of you buying just past performances or watching the races.

And talking about contradictions! How about a little hypocrisy that apparently went right over your sensitive minds. As demonstrated by the those who sympathized and supposedly read the same post by McSchell_Racing as I did.

By Show Me The Wire
Spot on. Thanks for being respectful to our companions.
By Joanied
If every owner were like you...every horse would have a happy life.
By Lilmegahertz
I truly wish with all my heart that at the end of the career, they all get nice retirements. Sadly this is not the case. Thank you for doing the right thing for your horses. In case you missed it, why not try re-reading it and this time take the blinkers off!
Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing
Something that has always me me wonder about owners and other trainers..I claimed a 10yo horse who was with his previous owners for 5 yrs...He made them almost 500k...I claimed him for 5k!!!!. These people who owned him should be ASHAMED. I was very lucky with him,I did squeeze a couple of wins from him. On my birthday and x-mas eve which are both in Dec..He now resides at Old friends in Ky....My point being is how much money does a poor horse have to make or how bad do his problems have to get before someone finally says enough..I have claimed many young and old horses,Done very well with them and find them new homes..Horses all have problems and sound ones also break down..The problem is greed and with no respect for a living creature.Yes folks here’s a trainer so “ASHMAMED” about the previous owners that by his own admission turned right around and “squeezed a couple of wins from him”. (Of course no mention is made of how many additional times the horse had to run in order to accomplish that). So it was okay for him to race the 10 year old, but not previous owners? Maybe they were going to retire him soon too! Who knows?

But in light of what he did with this racehorse after the claim, I find it intriguing that no one here questioned the integrity of his comment about “how much money does a poor horse have to make or how bad do his problems have to get before someone finally says enough?” Did he say enough? Sure he did, but only after collecting some purse money to cover the costs of his claim!

So my comments were alarming? Apparently the only other person taken back by this hypocrisy was Brogan.

Want some more contradiction? How about……
By tzipi
HOW anyone could be against a post just saying hey it's a shame horses that have died get no recognition unless they are in the 1% of "big time" horses is horrible. All the post said was treat them as equals.

Nitro, did you trash Eight Belles and Barbaro as stupid pets and it being ridiculous when people wrote their threads about R.I.P and nice things about them and how it's sad. Hmmm

By tzipi
Yeah I was just in shock someone has such a negative and horrible comment and got pissed about a post just saying, hey it would be nice if they treated all horses the same when they broke down and not just cried over just expensive horses and it would be nice if they put something up just saying a little something for all the horses who were out there busting their butt for us. That's all it said. My question is if you’re so concerned about the passing and lack of recognition of the cheaper horses, then why even bring up Eight Belles and Barbaro and ALL of the RECOGNITION that they got? Where did I call them “stupid pets”? No actually I made a simply analogy between those like yourself who feel for these RACEHORSES as if they WERE pets. There’s a big difference! Someday when you actually learn what a racehorse is then you might come to grips with them “busting their butt for us”. And as Brogan accurately stated,
“Most race horses I've been around seem to be the happiest when they are on the track, either training or competing.” Because a sound animal actually enjoys what they were bred to do: RUN.

[joanied]

Nitro....I will reply because you used a quote from me...not to get into an argument or going into details... the fact remains that McShell gives his horses a nice retirement...that is all I meant with my post...generally speaking, horses he's involved with are well cared for when they are done racing. Period.

As for race horses being 'pets'...I can only speak for myself...and I never have considerd any race horse, even the ones I worked with and knew...PETS...special, wonderful, and some I feel in love with and got emotionally involved with...and some are like family members...needless to say, I assume you disagree with those kinds of feelings...but, concerning this thread, and the original post...again, speaking for myself...the original post was simply a way of paying respect to another less that 'great' horse that broke down...regardless of how many break down, or wether they are champions or claimers...if we know about here...we pay our respect, show some emotion and wish that particular horse to rest in peace.
Simple, ain't it:faint:

[westny]

you, sir, took the words right out of my fingers. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

What a horrible person Nitro must be to have such a cavalier attitude toward a living thing. Beyond disgusting.

Just like Michael Vick.

[tucker6]

[/B]

Just like Michael Vick.
indeed. My wife and I support many animal charities, and she's an Eagles fan. Well, she is an Eagles fan no longer after 40+ years. More often than not, integrity and personal values have more lasting value than money. Jeffrey Lurie forgot that. Most people do in the pursuit of material things.

[tzipi]

Wow! I sure ruffled some feathers, but the only “contradiction” I see are the so-called compassionate comments on this thread! There's no contradiction or irony in breeding racehorses to RACE. Does anyone here really believe that the majority of owners and trainers are intentionally “harsh or even cruel” to their horses by giving them the opportunity to do what they were bred to do? After all these people have invested a lot more time and money in their end of the game then those of you buying just past performances or watching the races.

And talking about contradictions! How about a little hypocrisy that apparently went right over your sensitive minds. As demonstrated by the those who sympathized and supposedly read the same post by McSchell_Racing as I did.

In case you missed it, why not try re-reading it and this time take the blinkers off!
Yes folks here’s a trainer so “ASHMAMED” about the previous owners that by his own admission turned right around and “squeezed a couple of wins from him”. (Of course no mention is made of how many additional times the horse had to run in order to accomplish that). So it was okay for him to race the 10 year old, but not previous owners? Maybe they were going to retire him soon too! Who knows?

But in light of what he did with this racehorse after the claim, I find it intriguing that no one here questioned the integrity of his comment about “how much money does a poor horse have to make or how bad do his problems have to get before someone finally says enough?” Did he say enough? Sure he did, but only after collecting some purse money to cover the costs of his claim!

So my comments were alarming? Apparently the only other person taken back by this hypocrisy was Brogan.

Want some more contradiction? How about……
My question is if you’re so concerned about the passing and lack of recognition of the cheaper horses, then why even bring up Eight Belles and Barbaro and ALL of the RECOGNITION that they got? Where did I call them “stupid pets”? No actually I made a simply analogy between those like yourself who feel for these RACEHORSES as if they WERE pets. There’s a big difference! Someday when you actually learn what a racehorse is then you might come to grips with them “busting their butt for us”. And as Brogan accurately stated,
“Most race horses I've been around seem to be the happiest when they are on the track, either training or competing.” Because a sound animal actually enjoys what they were bred to do: RUN.

Please read my post. I said why don't cheap horses get same praise of who they were and how sad it is. That's all. It seems wrong to me. Oh your cheap who cares about you as a horse. Thats all. Don't make it more.

[Nitro]

By Joanied
Nitro....I will reply because you used a quote from me...not to get into an argument or going into details... the fact remains that McShell gives his horses a nice retirement...that is all I meant with my post...generally speaking, horses he's involved with are well cared for when they are done racing. Period.

As for race horses being 'pets'...I can only speak for myself...and I never have considerd any race horse, even the ones I worked with and knew...PETS...special, wonderful, and some I feel in love with and got emotionally involved with...and some are like family members...needless to say, I assume you disagree with those kinds of feelings...but, concerning this thread, and the original post...again, speaking for myself...the original post was simply a way of paying respect to another less that 'great' horse that broke down...regardless of how many break down, or wether they are champions or claimers...if we know about here...we pay our respect, show some emotion and wish that particular horse to rest in peace.It’s funny how you continue to avoid what’s actually presented by McShell’s obvious hypocrisy. Of course you want no argument because none can be made, particularly when the details of his comments are side-stepped. Instead you refer to things that aren’t even mentioned and you assume everyone knows. So why not also assume that the original owners must have certainly taken admirable care of that 10 year old racehorse warrior? How many owners and can lay claim to keeping a racehorse of any caliber fit and active for that length of time? I believe they probably understood a lot more about what a racehorse is and does then the majority on this thread.

You are certainly entitled to affix as many of your personal affections to these animals as you wish. I personally find your description of these emotions a bit over zealous particularly when put into proper perspective. I also find comments coming from someone who has obviously been around these animals and perhaps better understands the trials and tribulations of this game to be rather patronizing. But really now!? We’re supposed to be paying respect to dead horses?

And what have we here? More real horseplayers? No, I suspect its more pet lovers.Originally Posted by tucker6
you, sir, took the words right out of my fingers
What a horrible person Nitro must be to have such a cavalier attitude toward a living thing. Beyond disgusting.

By Westny
Just like Michael Vick.

By tucker6
indeed. My wife and I support many animal charities, and she's an Eagles fan. Well, she is an Eagles fan no longer after 40+ years. More often than not, integrity and personal values have more lasting value than money. Jeffrey Lurie forgot that. Most people do in the pursuit of material things.Gee that’s swell tucker! I’m proud (maybe even cavalier) enough to say that my wife and I can fortunately make the distinction between living things like man and beast. In fact, we’re meat and poultry eaters who prefer to support charitable organizations that cater to the human condition. This may not be within the realm of your set of values, but as far as I’m concerned until Michael Vick commits a crime against humanity there is no real crime! You people ought to get your priorities straightened out! In fact, if you’re not in pursuit of material things then why are you playing the horses? Sorry I might have jumped to conclusions there! I only assumed that since you’re posting comments on this type of forum that you might be a player.

[tucker6]

It’s funny how you continue to avoid what’s actually presented by McShell’s obvious hypocrisy. Of course you want no argument because none can be made, particularly when the details of his comments are side-stepped. Instead you refer to things that aren’t even mentioned and you assume everyone knows. So why not also assume that the original owners must have certainly taken admirable care of that 10 year old racehorse warrior? How many owners and can lay claim to keeping a racehorse of any caliber fit and active for that length of time? I believe they probably understood a lot more about what a racehorse is and does then the majority on this thread.

You are certainly entitled to affix as many of your personal affections to these animals as you wish. I personally find your description of these emotions a bit over zealous particularly when put into proper perspective. I also find comments coming from someone who has obviously been around these animals and perhaps better understands the trials and tribulations of this game to be rather patronizing. But really now!? We’re supposed to be paying respect to dead horses?

And what have we here? More real horseplayers? No, I suspect its more pet lovers.Gee that’s swell tucker! I’m proud (maybe even cavalier) enough to say that my wife and I can fortunately make the distinction between living things like man and beast. In fact, we’re meat and poultry eaters who prefer to support charitable organizations that cater to the human condition. This may not be within the realm of your set of values, but as far as I’m concerned until Michael Vick commits a crime against humanity there is no real crime! You people ought to get your priorities straightened out! In fact, if you’re not in pursuit of material things then why are you playing the horses? Sorry I might have jumped to conclusions there! I only assumed that since you’re posting comments on this type of forum that you might be a player.
Yes, Nitro, you jump to more conclusions than you should. As I read your posts, I also get the feeling that a crime against you personally would not meet the criteria for a real crime as you put it..

You are a sad person.

[onefast99]

Something that has always me me wonder about owners and other trainers..I claimed a 10yo horse who was with his previous owners for 5 yrs...He made them almost 500k...I claimed him for 5k!!!!. These people who owned him should be ASHAMED.I was very lucky with him,I did squeeze a couple of wins from him..On my birthday and x-mas eve which are both in Dec..He now resides at Old friends in Ky....My point being is how much money does a poor horse have to make or how bad do his problems have to get before someone finally says enough..I have claimed many young and old horses,Done very well with them and find them new homes..Horses all have problems and sound ones also break down..The problem is greed and with no respect for a living creature.
You bring up a good valid point in this thread, when do you stop racing a horse? As an owner you try to do what is right, you listen to the trainer and the vet. On Tuesday we had one die of a heart attack at Penn National in the 8th race, a horse we claimed 2 years ago from Nick Zito at Saratoga. No one knew he had anything wrong with his heart, there is no test for that if a horse shows no problems during his training routine or in any previous races. You mention when is enough enough? If a vet has to inject every joint or medicate the horse so he doesn't feel any pain when he runs then that is when it is time to retire the horse to a good home. Catastrophic breakdowns are the ones we all fear the most and if one can be prevented then every precaution must be taken to do so.

[Gorgeous George]

the national hunt season has only started in britain and there was four fatalities at one meeting yesterday, Wetherby :(

[CryingForTheHorses]

Are you saying this was horse being abused running in $5k claimers?

Assuming the horse was being treated right and reasonably sound (you kept running him so he must have been sound and fit) he was probably running at the level where he competitive.

Most race horses I've been around seem to be the happiest when they are on the track, either training or competing.

Short of abuse or neglect, I don't get why the former owners are in the wrong.


He made them almost 500k!!!!!!!....He should have been retired instead of getting the measly 5k purse...AND he didnt win that day...They were wrong in running him for bottoms just to get rid of him

[Brogan]

He made them almost 500k!!!!!!!....He should have been retired instead of getting the measly 5k purse...AND he didnt win that day...They were wrong in running him for bottoms just to get rid of him
:confused: :confused: :confused:
Is there some formula I'm not aware of wherein you calculate the moment to retire a horse based on earnings?

How do you know he was in a $5k claimer "just to get rid of him"??? You run horses based on their value and where they are competitive, NOT what they've done in the past. Racing is very much a "what have you done for me lately?" type of business.

You kept running him, so he must have been a serviceable race horse.

What level did you run him at?
Why did you retire him?
Did you push him until he broke down?

You said you "squeezed" two more wins out of him...sounds like he was still a decent horse at the time you got him and probably a profitable claim.

[joanied]

Nitro...guess I need to reply to you again...here is the part of your post aimed at me (I can't reply to anything you said to Tucker6 or anyone else)...

"It’s funny how you continue to avoid what’s actually presented by McShell’s obvious hypocrisy. Of course you want no argument because none can be made, particularly when the details of his comments are side-stepped. Instead you refer to things that aren’t even mentioned and you assume everyone knows. So why not also assume that the original owners must have certainly taken admirable care of that 10 year old racehorse warrior? How many owners and can lay claim to keeping a racehorse of any caliber fit and active for that length of time? I believe they probably understood a lot more about what a racehorse is and does then the majority on this thread.

You are certainly entitled to affix as many of your personal affections to these animals as you wish. I personally find your description of these emotions a bit over zealous particularly when put into proper perspective. I also find comments coming from someone who has obviously been around these animals and perhaps better understands the trials and tribulations of this game to be rather patronizing. But really now!? We’re supposed to be paying respect to dead horses? "

First of all, I don't know anything about the 10 year old that McShell claimed and ran again...but it's obvious to me that McShell was watching this horse...and that once claimed, he did run him twice more...all I can do is assume the horse was OK to run both those time...I don't know McShell personally, but from his posts here, I feel he is a good person, prob'ly is all aspects of his life, and certainly with his horses...the horse came out of both those races in good order, and it's quite possible he could have run a couple of more times also...but, it was McShell's opinion that the horse had enough, and before something bad did happen...he sent the horse to Old Friends...I am sorry you don't agree, Nitro...but to me that was an admirable thing to do...Old Friend's is an incredible facility and this old warrior will live out his life in happiness & contentment...quite possibly something that would not have happened if McShell didn't step in and claim this horse.

What things did I assume that were not mentioned and assumed everyone knew???

I beleive everyone here, especially myself, know what a race horse IS and what he DOES...to assume we do not is an insult to everyone here...and quite patronizing...

and oh thanks so much:rolleyes: for saying I can 'affix' my personal emotions to these animals....over zealous...you don't know me, so I take it that you are now trying to pyscho-analyze me:faint:

The emotions I feel for these animals goes deep and I take offense at anyone telling me I am over zealous...I love these animals, I adore them, respect them, I am passionate about them...and I hope you don't like that...for I could care less what you might think about me...I could care less what opinion you have formed about me because my emotions towards these animals is over zealous!!

You seem shocked to know that some of us that love this game and the horses involved should pay respect to a dead horse...if you feel so strongly that paying respect, for feeling sad that a race horse has died, is beyond reasonable, or even normal...then you shouldn't have even posted in this thread...your stance on animals in general seems to be that they matter not...
no one here is trying to put human beings before animals... to comapre the death of any animal to the death of a human is a ridculous way to try and argue your point...do you really beleive we (I) hold animals above humans simply because we desire to pay our respects to a dead horse? If so...then you insult us all...although, in my lifetime, in dealing with folks from all walks of life...and you are gonna love this, Nitro...for the most part, I would rather spend time with animals than most humans.....now go ahead and jump all over that if you wish to.

The bottom line here is pretty damned simple:bang: ...anytime we find out a race horse has died...we will post a R.I.P thread...
my suggestion to you is to ignore these types of posts as you cleary beleive the death of a race horse is not important, and in the grand scheme of things...means nothing.

I am glad I am not you...I'll stick with my 'over zealous' emotions, thank you.

PS...and your attitude that Micheal Vic didn't commit a crime because it was dogs he was killing, not people...is outrageous:ThmbDown: :eek: :ThmbDown:

[WinterTriangle]

If you want to make some worthwhile contributions, then give to the disabled jockey fund. Yes, these are the HUMAN beings who risk their lives for our enjoyment and wagering pleasures. When will you people realize how much more important a single human life is worth compared to even a thousand animals of any description?!

Sorry, bud, there's enough generosity in the world to give to all. Picture the world without animals, without pets. I wouldn't want to live in it.

I came across some good wool blankets at Salvation Army recently, they were there for a week, I went back and bought them for our local dog shelter. Lady behind the counter, when I mentioned what I was buying for said: "oh, what a shame these nice wool blankets going for DOGS, when children are cold!"

In a loud voice, in front of everyone, I said: "I just payed $10 for 2 blankets. they were here for over a week. BUT----if you would like, I will sell them back to YOU, for what I paid, so that you can give them to some cold child."

DEAFENING SILENCE. Just as I thought. :lol:

I took my blankets and left.

There is room enough in my heart, for kindness both humans, and animals. Elephants, giraffes, gorillas, dogs, horses, too..........too bad some people think so small as to make it an "either / or" situation. :ThmbDown:

An act of kindness is just that. Lindness and generosity are a blessing to the person performing it....there are no rules. I will spend *my* money how I wish, you have absolutely no right to impose your moral hierarchy on anyone else.

[tzipi]

Good Post WINTER TRI and good for you with the lady. :ThmbUp:

Can you believe some of this crap written because I said,geez if you going to cry over Eight Belles,Barbaro,etc(which is fine),then why don't you cry for the handicap horse or why no local horse tv media say? That's all. The horses are all the same. Treat them as such.

[PaceAdvantage]

Can you believe some of this crap written because I said,geez if you going to cry over Eight Belles,Barbaro,etc(which is fine),then why don't you cry for the handicap horse or why no local horse tv media say? That's all. The horses are all the same. Treat them as such.That's like saying we should expect equal news coverage and an equal outpouring of nationwide grief when my anonymous neighbor down the street passes away, the same as when Michael Jackson kicked the bucket.

An unreasonable expectation for sure, as human beings just don't operate like that...

[Java Gold@TFT]

There seemed to be a very good thread here when an anonymos maiden claimer named Mi Rei(?) died at Del Mar this year. Lots of outpouring of compassion for the horse dying. So is the point that Barbaro makes ESPN' SportsCenter but a 2.5K claimer at Prairie Downs doesn't get the same attention? Maybe you want your local little league scores reported next to the MLB games because you care about your kid hitting a home run. It's not even an apples - oranges argument, it's apples - figs.

When I do watch my local feed from Belmont I do hear Andy and others mention horses that broke down in a previous race. I don't think there is a coverup. As an owner the first thing we pray for is that they come back safely - the win is secondary.

How many minor league baseball dru charges can you think of off the top of your head? There are 100 more steroids suspensions in the minor leagues to one in the major leagues. Do you expect every one of them to get the same coverage?

Yes, the mdncls who break down are lost in the press but to think they need some type of special recognition is ludicrous.

[WinterTriangle]

That's like saying we should expect equal news coverage and an equal outpouring of nationwide grief when my anonymous neighbor down the street passes away, the same as when Michael Jackson kicked the bucket.

An unreasonable expectation for sure, as human beings just don't operate like that...

I agree this is *true*. Whether it's noble or admirable or not, it's reality. And it has to be that way, in a news/information-laden world, there is only so much room. We do have to be practical.

I don't know what the OP was asking for, I wasn't asking for coverage in the media, but coverage merely in our "hearts". For every person that is different, making a donation, making a post about it, or........ nothing. Whatever floats one's boat. :)

I don't dictate what that should be for others, so I CERTAINLY take exception to somebody telling ME what's *appropriate* when I spend my own money, or when I feel my own feelings. That was my problem with Nitro and the lady at the Salvation Army store.

[Brooklyn Backstretch]

I recognize that this is brazenly and perhaps inappropriately self-promotional, but I was working on this piece when the thread began, and the timing seemed right to link to it here.

It's a story about the horse who broke down in the last race at Belmont on Gold Cup day--Pappy's Double H. The story behind him seemed one worth telling:

http://www.brooklynbackstretch.com/2009/10/story-of-pappys-double-h.html

Teresa

[strapper]

Pretty heartless way of looking at it if you ask me. If you work w/ a racehorse day in and day out you get very attached to them in most cases. Some horseplayers are a little too callous if you ask me. I don't put the horses above the jockeys by any means but I would hope members of the human race can show more compassion than you do.

I feel sorry for all you pet lovers out there who think of these animals as just that “pets”. Get over it! They’re RACE HORSES! Sure we all love our pets, but come on now lets get real! How many of these horses out of the thousands that race every year, actually break down and die? Come on folks these animals don’t even know they exist! All they know how to do is RUN, and they love doing just that.

If you want to make some worthwhile contributions, then give to the disabled jockey fund. Yes, these are the HUMAN beings who risk their lives for our enjoyment and wagering pleasures. When will you people realize how much more important a single human life is worth compared to even a thousand animals of any description?!

As far as I’m concerned these type of comments play right into mentalities and agendas of those who would love to abolish our game entirely!
Please give it a rest!

[tzipi]

There seemed to be a very good thread here when an anonymos maiden claimer named Mi Rei(?) died at Del Mar this year. Lots of outpouring of compassion for the horse dying. So is the point that Barbaro makes ESPN' SportsCenter but a 2.5K claimer at Prairie Downs doesn't get the same attention? Maybe you want your local little league scores reported next to the MLB games because you care about your kid hitting a home run. It's not even an apples - oranges argument, it's apples - figs.

When I do watch my local feed from Belmont I do hear Andy and others mention horses that broke down in a previous race. I don't think there is a coverup. As an owner the first thing we pray for is that they come back safely - the win is secondary.

How many minor league baseball dru charges can you think of off the top of your head? There are 100 more steroids suspensions in the minor leagues to one in the major leagues. Do you expect every one of them to get the same coverage?

Yes, the mdncls who break down are lost in the press but to think they need some type of special recognition is ludicrous.


Did I say "ESPN"? NO. Jesus,all I said is they don't act the same(TVG,NYRA,etc) when a "cheap" horse dies but will amp it up when a expensive horse dies. THAT'S ALL.

I mean do people read posts? "So you want this on ESPN??? NO I never said that. I just said in the industry horses are treated different. I work with them and I consider them all the same. Did I attack anyone calling then names in my post...no. It was just an observation.

Did'nt think it was so bad to say hey the claimer,allow,etc horses are just the same as Grade 1 horses.

"Ludicrous a claimer should get same recognition as top horses"
Jesus,that is harsh. I HOPE every claimer,allow,handicap horse you bet on for now on loses. I SAID local horse media,not ESPN. Read.

[tzipi]

Also,I never said a cover-up by Andy or whoever. So don't put those words in my mouth too. I know they love horses just as much as some of us do. Just said it would be cool if they mentioned maybe their sire,dam,etc and maybe what they accomplished over their career just like they do for "top" horses. That's all.

[CryingForTheHorses]

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Is there some formula I'm not aware of wherein you calculate the moment to retire a horse based on earnings?

How do you know he was in a $5k claimer "just to get rid of him"??? You run horses based on their value and where they are competitive, NOT what they've done in the past. Racing is very much a "what have you done for me lately?" type of business.

You kept running him, so he must have been a serviceable race horse.

What level did you run him at?
Why did you retire him?
Did you push him until he broke down?

You said you "squeezed" two more wins out of him...sounds like he was still a decent horse at the time you got him and probably a profitable claim.


When you drop a horse from 16k to 5k,You are hoping for a win and hope he finds a new home,...IF a horse made me 500k,Im sure I would find him a home rather then run him that cheap..I claimed him because he was a class horse and was good value for my money.No he never broke down on me and I ran him for the same price I claimed him for..I had the class to see the old guy had had enough as in all total he made almost 800k during his racing days..He was such a nice horse that he didnt deserve to breakdown on the track...He padded everybodys pocket who owned him.

[WinterTriangle]

I work with them and I consider them all the same.

Therein lies your knowledge. You work with horses, you appreciate their innate value, which has nothing to do with their "price". :ThmbUp:

Your wanting to acknowledge that is admirable to most people here.

[bisket]

I recognize that this is brazenly and perhaps inappropriately self-promotional, but I was working on this piece when the thread began, and the timing seemed right to link to it here.

It's a story about the horse who broke down in the last race at Belmont on Gold Cup day--Pappy's Double H. The story behind him seemed one worth telling:

http://www.brooklynbackstretch.com/2009/10/story-of-pappys-double-h.html

Teresa
thanks for posting that heartwarming story. i watched a filly little harbor snap her leg and be euthanized on the track md million day. i know my heart broke for that filly, but i know her trainer and owners probably felt even worse. with all the rancor that some of the breakdowns on big racedays have created its just nice to hear the other side of some of these tragic accidents. thanks again

[tzipi]

WELL I WILL JUST SAY THIS:

If you watched a horse run for you or a horse you walked or a horse you groomed go down and the watched the horse injected with 100cc's of a barbiturate mixed with succinycholine to ease it down and take away the pain of an injury they can't fix,you would feel different.
But even before I worked with horses I NEVER said a "who cares" or "their not pets",etc. Just wrong.
Anyone saying that would kind make you laugh when their saying,"come on baby! stay in front,hang on...YEESSSSS! I LOVE that horse!"
Again this was never a post of,these breakdowns should be on ESPN. Who made that up?

[tzipi]

I can't really write about it anymore. But if you look at Eight Belles or Barbaro or Ruffian and get sad and then look at a cheap horse and go who cares or well their not pets,I think that's just sad. Just me.

[PaceAdvantage]

I can't really write about it anymore. But if you look at Eight Belles or Barbaro or Ruffian and get sad and then look at a cheap horse and go who cares or well their not pets,I think that's just sad. Just me.I'm not sure I get why you would think people don't care when a "no-name" horse goes down on the track.

What has led you to come to that conclusion? Most people I have encountered in this life certainly DO care...they do value the lives of these animals...they do not display attitudes of coldheartedness, no matter if it's Barbaro or a $12,000 claimer in the third at Hoosier Park.

And I'm talking about run-of-the-mill racing fans here...I would imagine those in the industry, including TV personalities, would care even MORE...quite the opposite of what you are saying here...

[Java Gold@TFT]

tzipi, what did I do to get your panties all up in a bunch? You were the one to compare Eight Belles and Barbaro to low level claimers, not me. I mentioned ESPN because that is where there is national attention for horse racing. I did say that Andy and others often mention the sad side of racing these horses. Where else do you want these horses mentioned? Do you want the DRF to have an obituary column? Do you want Belmont to put a veteran's type "War Memorial" statue next to the Secreatriat statue in the paddock that gets every breakdown engraved on it? I have already said that I have owned horses and have friends who also own horses. We pray for them to return safely every day. I have been lucky enough so far that the horses I have had have retired soundly whether they earned $100K or $3K during their career. I ask the same question I ask others who complain about any situation - offer a solution for your complaint. Statue, obit column, plaque on the clubhouse wall, daily announcement during the scratch announcments every day telling people of the horses who didn't make it through yesterday? What do you want? Provide us with this. I merely said that the tragedies that occur are usually mentioned when the fate of some horses are known. I have watched many horses die on the track and can name a lot of them that ran in low level races but I don't understand what you want from your original post. If you want to complain then offer a solution.

[tucker6]

tzipi, what did I do to get your panties all up in a bunch? You were the one to compare Eight Belles and Barbaro to low level claimers, not me. I mentioned ESPN because that is where there is national attention for horse racing. I did say that Andy and others often mention the sad side of racing these horses. Where else do you want these horses mentioned? Do you want the DRF to have an obituary column? Do you want Belmont to put a veteran's type "War Memorial" statue next to the Secreatriat statue in the paddock that gets every breakdown engraved on it? I have already said that I have owned horses and have friends who also own horses. We pray for them to return safely every day. I have been lucky enough so far that the horses I have had have retired soundly whether they earned $100K or $3K during their career. I ask the same question I ask others who complain about any situation - offer a solution for your complaint. Statue, obit column, plaque on the clubhouse wall, daily announcement during the scratch announcments every day telling people of the horses who didn't make it through yesterday? What do you want? Provide us with this. I merely said that the tragedies that occur are usually mentioned when the fate of some horses are known. I have watched many horses die on the track and can name a lot of them that ran in low level races but I don't understand what you want from your original post. If you want to complain then offer a solution.
This is a very good post. I often rail that movie stars with numerous human weaknesses get days of press when they die, yet someone who worked tirelessly to help humanity dies in silence. I've learned that it is what it is. It doesn't mean that the people who worked with these horses don't care that the horse died just because they don't wear a black arm band in recognition.

[Brogan]

When you drop a horse from 16k to 5k,You are hoping for a win and hope he finds a new home,...IF a horse made me 500k,Im sure I would find him a home rather then run him that cheap..I claimed him because he was a class horse and was good value for my money.No he never broke down on me and I ran him for the same price I claimed him for..I had the class to see the old guy had had enough as in all total he made almost 800k during his racing days..He was such a nice horse that he didnt deserve to breakdown on the track...He padded everybodys pocket who owned him.
I still don't get your point.

$500k in earnings for the same owner is the retirement point?
Running in a $5k claimer is embarassing?

I repeat, short of running an unfit or unhealthy horse, there's nothing wrong with continuing to race a horse. There's also nothing wrong with running him a the lowest levels if that's where he's still competitive.

[bisket]

i do think tracks and tv have kinda dropped the ball with breakdowns and injuries on the track. just like when a player goes down on the football field bettors and fans would probably appreciate some type of announcement or update as to what the injuries are or if the horse had to be euthanized. when i put 2 bucks on a horse he's becomes my horsey, and if something happens to him i'd appreciate some type of information about what happened. in addition i don't see how communicating some sort of regrets or sympathy to the connections that work night and day and put their heart and soul into their runners would be out of line. i think maybe this could also be communicated in the following days program, and announced during the race day that the injury or breakdown occurred. if possible. of course if this all happened during the last race i don't think there would be time to announce it, but having a line or two about the incident in the following days program would cover it. i don't think its really to much to ask, and would show the game appreciates its horses that compete and run their hearts out for a carrot or apple after the race. :ThmbUp:

[tzipi]

To PEOPLE WHO CAN NOT READ! YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE:

I NEVER COMPARED BARBARO,EIGHT,ETC TO CLAIMERS IN TERMS OF TALENT. I JUST SAID THEY ARE ALL THE SAME WHEN THEY GO DOWN. LEARN TO READ.

NEVER GOT MY "PANTIES IN A BUNCH". JUST SAID IT WAS SAD ITS NOT ON SAME LEVEL IN TERMS OF SADNESS COMPARED TO "GOOD" HORSES. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? PEOPLE GOT THEIR PANTIES IN A BUNCH BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE PATIENCE TO READ A POST OR POSTS AND UNDERSTAND THEM.

NEVER SAID LARGE MEDIA I SAID,GEE IT WOULD BE NICE IF THEY(TVG, or local NYRA type) MENTIONED A HORSES SIRE OR DAM AND CAREER ACCOMPLISHMENTS AFER THEY BREAK DOWN,IT DOES'NT JUST HAVE TO BE FOR THE BIG HORSES. NEVER SAID ESPN,SO WHY SOMEONE WOULD SAY THAT IS RIDICULOUS. DON'T BRING IN SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT SAID.

TO A CERTAIN SOMEONE. "WHY DO YOU THINK PEOPLE DON'T CARE?" TRY READING THE POSTS. THERE'S MORE THAN ONE PERSON HERE ATTACKING A CERTAIN PERSON FOR SAYING THEIR NOT PETS AND A BASIC WHO CARES. READ THE POSTS PLEASE!

YOU DON'T ATTACK A PERSON FOR WRITING A WHO CARE RESPONSE TO A HARMLESS POST SAYING HEY IT WOULD BE COOL FOR THE DECEASED HORSES TO GET A SHOUT OUT ON WHO THEY WERE. WOW GOOD JOB.

I JUST MADE ONE POST ABOUT HEY IT WOULD BE COOL FOR THEM TO SAY CERTAIN THINGS ABOUT A HORSE AND PEOPLE JUMPED ON IT. BUT I'M WRONG AND THE BAD GUY?

STOP GETTING YOUR PANTIES IN A BUNCH OVER A HARMLESS POST AND STOP MAKING UP CRAP THAT WAS NEVER WRITTEN. BETTER THINGS IN LIFE TO DO. TRY HANDICAPPING.

[tzipi]

I feel sorry for all you pet lovers out there who think of these animals as just that “pets”. Get over it! They’re RACE HORSES! Sure we all love our pets, but come on now lets get real! How many of these horses out of the thousands that race every year, actually break down and die? Come on folks these animals don’t even know they exist! All they know how to do is RUN, and they love doing just that.

If you want to make some worthwhile contributions, then give to the disabled jockey fund. Yes, these are the HUMAN beings who risk their lives for our enjoyment and wagering pleasures. When will you people realize how much more important a single human life is worth compared to even a thousand animals of any description?!

As far as I’m concerned these type of comments play right into mentalities and agendas of those who would love to abolish our game entirely!
Please give it a rest

[tzipi]

I feel sorry for all you pet lovers out there who think of these animals as just that “pets”. Get over it! They’re RACE HORSES! Sure we all love our pets, but come on now lets get real! How many of these horses out of the thousands that race every year, actually break down and die? Come on folks these animals don’t even know they exist! All they know how to do is RUN, and they love doing just that.



PACEADVANTAGE POST:
"Tzipi,not sure why you think people here don't care when these low level horses go down?" Jesus,why do people here just attack without reading??

So lets see.
"Hey it would be cool to mention a down horses SIRE and DAM and CAREER. That's all. Pretty cool right,to show 10 seconds of respect like that. (Pretty simple and not crazy)

REPLY:
GET OVER IT!!!!!!! IT'S NOT GOING ON ESPN! STOP GETTING YOUR PANTIES IN A BUNCH!!! GET OVER IT!!! HORSES DON'T EVEN KNOW THEY EXIST!
F U TZIPI AND YOUR B.S.!

Sorry I said I just wanted to here their sire,dam and career for 10 sec between races. Jesus :rolleyes:

[joanied]

In defence of tzipi...I never did get the idea that he expected every horse that breaks down to be mentioned on ESPN or anywhere else...I don't know where that came from...before Nitro made his heartless comments about these wonderful animals and insulted everyone here by suggesting we care more for animals than people...it was a simple post that should have garnered nothing more than a R.I.P for the horse in question, and maybe some opinions about the idea that every horse that breaks down should be mentioned somehwere...even if it's just here at PA....and let me add this...someone, maybe it was Java Gold, mentioned an obituary for horses that die on the track...not sure if it was a serious suggestion...but IMO, it's a good one...would it be so hard for a web site like the Bloodhorse to post a weekly or monthly list of all deseased race horses that have died on the track? I don't think so. It would be easy enough and would be at no great expense...I am going to email the Blood Horse and suggest this...can't hurt.

And now I am going to suggest something else...about tzipi...get off his back...he was just trying to be compassionate and show he cares...something that some here don't seem to understand.
:faint:

[PaceAdvantage]

PACEADVANTAGE POST:
"Tzipi,not sure why you think people here don't care when these low level horses go down?" Jesus,why do people here just attack without reading??Are you trying to say that my reply to you was an attack? Seriously?

F U TZIPI AND YOUR B.S.!Did someone actually type this? I don't recall seeing this.

This is obviously getting out of hand, for some reason I can't quite comprehend at the moment...so, best to shut this thread down.