Jamie Spencer in the States?

[Java Gold@TFT]

While looking at today's Belmont card I found it odd that Jamie Spencer would fly from England to ride a 3yo filly in the Flower Bowl. I wouldn't find it terribly odd if he came over to run in a few G-I's but I can't find any other mount he has in the next few days anywhere in North America.

Then while looking around for an explaination I found this little story:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/6195015/Ban-threat-prompts-Jamie-Spencer-to-ride-abroad-this-winter.html

Spencer's skill will be missed. He was second in last winter's jockey's all-weather table with 64 winners. This winter, he plans to ride in Florida or California during January and February, though he will also monitor what opportunities exist in Dubai, where the new racetrack, Meydan, is due to open on Jan 28.

Looks like he feels threatened by the stewards in England and is willing to take time off there rather than miss valuable mounts next year.

He has been riding Moneycantbuymelove all year so is this a scouting trip and an open audition to trainers in the US? Do any of our European friends know if anything happened to speed up the change before Jan-Feb? It would be interesting to see where he can fit in with the current jockey colonies in Cal and Fla.

[nearco]

I imagine he is flying in for one ride, then flying back that evening. That's not unheard of. Plenty of European jocks have done that in the past. He is booked to ride at Windsor on Monday.
Kieren Fallon is flying into LA to ride Gitano Hernando in the Goodwood at Santa Anita.

The reason he is going to ride in FL for the winter is because of the new accumulator points system for infractions. So any infractions that he picked up riding on the All-weather during the winter in England could end up costing him a suspension during the latter part of the season and missing out on a big race ride. Smart move on his part.

[Gorgeous George]

he's a terrible jockey

[DanG]

he's a terrible jockey
His ride on Powerscourt in the 2005 Lone Star Breeders Cup will haunt me for a lifetime...WOW...:eek: :faint:

[Humph]

All too often you see him way off the pace - regardless . And when everything falls into place for him , he can look good . But when the early pace doesn't go his way , he often looks awful.

For what it's worth , I think he has a fair share of natural ability , but he just doesn't have the awareness to match.

[Valuist]

he's a terrible jockey

He still sucks. He's up to his old ways last weekend at Belmont, taking a horse who should clearly be on the lead in a paceless race, and decides to rate him right out of the race. He may win in Europe but he's terrible in North America.

[Grits]

MAYBE like this thread, he won't come back for ANOTHER TWO YEARS!:lol:

[horses4courses]

He still sucks. He's up to his old ways last weekend at Belmont, taking a horse who should clearly be on the lead in a paceless race, and decides to rate him right out of the race. He may win in Europe but he's terrible in North America.

True, he's not the greatest jockey out there.
But, to blame him for Treasure Beach's defeat is ridiculous.

That horse never fired, for whatever reason, and he was hard into him a long way out.
Treasure Beach wasn't going to win at Belmont on Saturday, no matter who was aboard.

[NJ Stinks]

Spencer is winning at a 16% clip in 2012. I bet his mounts with confidence if I like the horse.

[Dahoss9698]

Spencer is winning at a 16% clip in 2012. I bet his mounts with confidence if I like the horse.

With confidence? He's a horrible rider.

[NJ Stinks]

With confidence? He's a horrible rider.

I bet the guy with confidence when I'm in England. He's a top 10 jockey year in and year out over there.



http://www.thepja.co.uk/champ_flat.aspx

[gm10]

With confidence? He's a horrible rider.
He is a lot better now than he was 3 years ago. He is one of the top 5 jockeys in Britain.

[Dahoss9698]

I bet the guy with confidence when I'm in England. He's a top 10 jockey year in and year out over there.



http://www.thepja.co.uk/champ_flat.aspx

Great, I think he sucks when I'm in England and here. We'll agree to disagree.

But I'm curious....how do you excuse his yearly brainfarts in big races?

[Valuist]

True, he's not the greatest jockey out there.
But, to blame him for Treasure Beach's defeat is ridiculous.

That horse never fired, for whatever reason, and he was hard into him a long way out.
Treasure Beach wasn't going to win at Belmont on Saturday, no matter who was aboard.

How is he going to fire when you don't let him run? When you rate a speed horse like that behind a slow pace, you are basically killing any chance at winning.

[Valuist]

Spencer is winning at a 16% clip in 2012. I bet his mounts with confidence if I like the horse.

You see things in very strange ways.

[horses4courses]

How is he going to fire when you don't let him run? When you rate a speed horse like that behind a slow pace, you are basically killing any chance at winning.

Who says he's a speed horse?
A O'B may have used him in a "rabbit" capacity for his bigger guns before.
That doesn't mean the horse's most effective style is on the lead throughout.

When Cape Blanco came over here last year and won some nice races, he was no better than third, or fourth, best in the stable.
Treasure Beach is barely in the top five of this year's bunch. If So You Think was still in training, he definitely would not be.

[horses4courses]

Treasure Beach was used as a rabbit for So You Think and St. Nicholas Abbey in last year's Arc.
He set a strong gallop for close to 10 furlongs, and folded like a cheap suit.

Here are some more plausible reasons as to why he was beaten on Saturday:
(1) The heat of NY (close to 90) didn't suit him.
(2) A 2.5 month layoff meant he wasn't fully fit.
(3) Globetrotting has caught up to him - last 3 races in different continents.
(4) He has an ailment that has yet to surface.
(5) He's just not very good. Sub-standard Irish Derby win - that's it.


Had he produced form anywhere close to his Irish Derby win in June 2011, he wins, or runs second to Point Of Entry, on Saturday.
Spencer gets off the hook for this defeat, imo.

Here's a clip of his Irish Derby win (hardly the look of a speed horse).

N_M_WhIgmLg

[Valuist]

Who says he's a speed horse?
A O'B may have used him in a "rabbit" capacity for his bigger guns before.
That doesn't mean the horse's most effective style is on the lead throughout.

When Cape Blanco came over here last year and won some nice races, he was no better than third, or fourth, best in the stable.
Treasure Beach is barely in the top five of this year's bunch. If So You Think was still in training, he definitely would not be.

How did Treasure Beach win the Secretariat? He sat 2nd, and ended up winning the race in 2:03.91, which was about a second and a half faster than the aforementioned Cape Blanco, who won the Million two races later in 2:05.39. Maybe he was a rabbit in the Arc; he set a solid pace there. That field was very strung out. There's no way he's not quicker from the gate than Center Divider, who was the pace setter in the Man o War. If a race sets up with virtually no other early speed, why not use it? It was a terrible ride by Spencer, which is the norm for all his North American rides

[horses4courses]

How did Treasure Beach win the Secretariat? He sat 2nd, and ended up winning the race in 2:03.91, which was about a second and a half faster than the aforementioned Cape Blanco, who won the Million two races later in 2:05.39. Maybe he was a rabbit in the Arc; he set a solid pace there. That field was very strung out. There's no way he's not quicker from the gate than Center Divider, who was the pace setter in the Man o War. If a race sets up with virtually no other early speed, why not use it? It was a terrible ride by Spencer, which is the norm for all his North American rides

Sure, TB could have gone to, or sat near, the lead on Saturday.
He may have, actually, run a few lengths better.
End result? He still doesn't hit the board.

Your favorite rider, whoever that is, could have ridden the race of their life, and they still wouldn't have done better than 3rd, or 4th.
There was no gas in the tank.......

[cnollfan]

How is he going to fire when you don't let him run? When you rate a speed horse like that behind a slow pace, you are basically killing any chance at winning.

This is my least favorite style of ride. Silber Stern was 40-1 at Delaware on Saturday instead of odds-on, and maybe he would have lost anyway, but sheesh -- rating a speed horse off of a :50 half mile just for the privilege of running wide?

[NJ Stinks]

Great, I think he sucks when I'm in England and here. We'll agree to disagree.

But I'm curious....how do you excuse his yearly brainfarts in big races?

I agree that he had some awful rides in big races over here.

[Broad Brush]

Spencer had no impact on how bad T. Beach ran--the horse just had nothing.

However, I still have a huge grudge against Spencer. The first year
Powerscourt won the Million, I had two $1 tickets on the Pick 4.
Each was worth $4,400. The genius Spencer cut over for no reason I could
see and got D.Qued. $8,800 up in smoke.... Thanks again Jamie.

[sandpit]

Spencer had no impact on how bad T. Beach ran--the horse just had nothing.

However, I still have a huge grudge against Spencer. The first year
Powerscourt won the Million, I had two $1 tickets on the Pick 4.
Each was worth $4,400. The genius Spencer cut over for no reason I could
see and got D.Qued. $8,800 up in smoke.... Thanks again Jamie.

Ugh, that's the definition of getting "Spencerized"

[Valuist]

So Boisterous is going to be the favorite in the Arlington Million? Really? Then I hear Treasure Beach is in. Terrible trip/ride last time and we know he can handle 1 1/4 miles over the Arlington course. Then I see Spencer is riding and all the enthusiasm is gone. Are they trying to lose? I'd take almost any local rider over Spencer. I've take a 60 plus year old Earlie Fires, who is coming out of retirement to ride one race on Friday. Easily take him over that human anchor.

[Striker]

So Boisterous is going to be the favorite in the Arlington Million? Really? Then I hear Treasure Beach is in. Terrible trip/ride last time and we know he can handle 1 1/4 miles over the Arlington course. Then I see Spencer is riding and all the enthusiasm is gone. Are they trying to lose? I'd take almost any local rider over Spencer. I've take a 60 plus year old Earlie Fires, who is coming out of retirement to ride one race on Friday. Easily take him over that human anchor.
Surprised that they still shipped him for the Million. TB is going to be running back in 9 days here, and can't say he has done much since that win in the Secretariat.

[Mr G]

So Boisterous is going to be the favorite in the Arlington Million? Really? Then I hear Treasure Beach is in. Terrible trip/ride last time and we know he can handle 1 1/4 miles over the Arlington course. Then I see Spencer is riding and all the enthusiasm is gone. Are they trying to lose? I'd take almost any local rider over Spencer. I've take a 60 plus year old Earlie Fires, who is coming out of retirement to ride one race on Friday. Easily take him over that human anchor.

From 1998 :)

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/apr/29/sports/sp-44212

[Valuist]

Surprised that they still shipped him for the Million. TB is going to be running back in 9 days here, and can't say he has done much since that win in the Secretariat.

I just looked at the pps this morning and was surprised to see he had run again since the debacle at Belmont. He probably isn't the best of the Euros. Both Afsare and Crackerjack King seem to be in better form now. Nothing against Boisterous but he just doesn't seem worthy of Million favorite. Cumani trains Afsare. I remember when Cumani shipped in with Tolomeo and upset the great John Henry.

[nearco]

So Coolmore have engaged Spencer to fly in and ride Treasure Beach who appears to be woefully out of form, and his form is reflected in the 7/1-8/1 price he is trading at.
Meanwhile Colm O'Donoughue, who is on the payroll at Ballydoyle, gets the mount on Marco Botti's Crackerjack King who is the 4/1 favorite with the British bookies.
Interesting.

[Valuist]

He still sucks. He's up to his old ways last weekend at Belmont, taking a horse who should clearly be on the lead in a paceless race, and decides to rate him right out of the race. He may win in Europe but he's terrie in North America.

He was terrible when I posted this a few years ago and I have seen nothing to change my mind. Why is this relevant? Spencer is named to ride Toast of New York tomorrow in the Belmont Derby. He's listed at 3-1 in the morning line. His claim to fame is winning the UAE Derby in synthetic a little over 3 months ago. He is an unknown on grass, however, with an off the board finish at a minor UK track in his only grass race. Do you really want to take a low price on a Spencer runner who hasn't even proved he can handle the surface?

[Tom]

For all the hoopla about this race, it comes up a dud in my book. For all the money they added, the new name, the new spot on the calendar, it drew a lousy Gr3 level of horses. If this is what that big money draws, they should cut he purse to 50K and see if we at least a get a good allowance field. It took me 10 minutes to decide this race was a waste of my time.

There are three really good races on the card tomorrow, and they are all on the dirt.

[Valuist]

He was terrible when I posted this a few years ago and I have seen nothing to change my mind. Why is this relevant? Spencer is named to ride Toast of New York tomorrow in the Belmont Derby. He's listed at 3-1 in the morning line. His claim to fame is winning the UAE Derby in synthetic a little over 3 months ago. He is an unknown on grass, however, with an off the board finish at a minor UK track in his only grass race. Do you really want to take a low price on a Spencer runner who hasn't even proved he can handle the surface?

Another year later, and guess what? Spencer still sucks. Some things never change.