What a joke Special Night Racing at Hawthorne

[BIG49010]

Happen to be in Chicago, and they had a comercial for Night Racing at Hawthorne?

Not quite like the Churchill, and if you go you might want to bring a gun.

I wonder if they will have more hookers on Cicero Ave. for the evening?:lol:

[ddog]

ANY racing at Hogthorn is a JOKE!

[1st time lasix]

actually a dirt track with a stretch run long enough to eliminate some inside speed bias with low takeouts. Not so bad from a handicappers prospective.

[illinoisbred]

I couldn't believe it . They're putting the lives of the few attendees at risk. I haven't been to that hellhole since the mid 80's I remember the pukey yellow and brown interior and pissing in a pig trough in the grandstand men's room.

[ddog]

I couldn't believe it . They're putting the lives of the few attendees at risk. I haven't been to that hellhole since the mid 80's I remember the pukey yellow and brown interior and pissing in a pig trough in the grandstand men's room.

:ThmbUp:

[illinoisbred]

actually a dirt track with a stretch run long enough to eliminate some inside speed bias with low takeouts. Not so bad from a handicappers prospective.
All true enough.Its just a shame they're stuck in stickney.

[ddog]

actually a dirt track with a stretch run long enough to eliminate some inside speed bias with low takeouts. Not so bad from a handicappers prospective.


Do not support a dead place like this.

DO not do it.

It should be closed.

It's an eyesore and a public nuisance.

[Irish Boy]

I am both surprised and delighted by the tenor of this thread :D

[GaryG]

The thing that struck me about the grandstand was how steep the rows are. Since I play from home the pig trough in the men's room is not a consideration. I play Hawthorne because I do well there. The switch back to dirt causes some surprising overlays. Ever the capitalist, I will play it until FG and Tampa get in full swing.

[illinoisbred]

The thing that struck me about the grandstand was how steep the rows are. Since I play from home the pig trough in the men's room is not a consideration. I play Hawthorne because I do well there. The switch back to dirt causes some surprising overlays. Ever the capitalist, I will play it until FG and Tampa get in full swing.
I play it too -from home .Some nice prices can be had by having access to figures from the spring meet.For reasons unknown to me,previous fall speed figures are more helpful with filles/mares.I like a little perk-up in 1 of the last couple on poly-dangerous horse if it has shown a likeness for Hawthorne. And that top floor-if you fell I think you would roll out of the building.

[GaryG]

Cicero would be a lot better off if Betty Maltese was still running it. I thought she was great, but the Outfit ain't what it used to be.

[illinoisbred]

Cicero would be a lot better off if Betty Maltese was still running it. I thought she was great, but the Outfit ain't what it used to be.
Huh?

[mostpost]

When Hawthorne's old wooden grandstand burned down in 1978, I was hopeful that the Carey's would replace it with something special. During the rebuilding, I had a dream that I went to the new Hawthorne. The track was at the bottom of a Quarry and the grandstand was a metal open air grandstand perched on the edge of the quarry.
The reality turned out to be better but not by much. The building is too big by a factor of two. The interior of the grandstand is unfinished with bare walls and concrete floors. The view from the clubhouse is blocked by the grandstand. Tenzing Norkay would be nervous navigating the rows of the upper grandstand. (I believe they no longer open that section.)
As for the neighborhood, unless you're walking, it shouldn't be a problem.
There is ample secure parking especially since crowds are way down. The buses stop nearby.
The factory like building actually fits in with its surroundings which are primarily truck terminals, oil storage depots and an abandoned Drive In theater. The sanitary canal is nearby.

[BIG49010]

Betty Loren-Maltese she ran Cicero for years, had a house in Vegas and a serious gambling problem.

[JustRalph]

Why is TVG giving them so much coverage? Mike Joyce Spending a week there? What's up with that?

[senortout]

I am both surprised and delighted by the tenor of this thread :D


lol a lot!

wait for it


an Irish 'tenor'

senortout

[Steve 'StatMan']

Lots of physical upgrades to Hawthorne since the late 1980's thankfully. Will never equal Arlington, never intended. Unfortunately many of the problems with the location remain - and while I haven't been in the area at night, only once did I ever see what looked like a hooker in the early evening. They did a lot of police stings in that area about a decade ago, plus most of the 'cheapo' hotels in the area are closed and or bulldozed, as well as I think all the strip joints and gentelman's clubs.

Inside, they've added-redone the decor on each of the 3 grandstand floors - the clubhouse was too, but is closed, except for the dining rooms, to cut expenses. 3rd floor is pretty decent with lots of HD TV's banks and many rows of decent tables (yeah, I remember the days it was an unfinished warehouse as well, long ago) Elevator added to the grandstand near the escalators. Shuttle bus between Grandstand and both Cicero and Laramie Avenues. Improved lighting from the track also benefits parking lot - at least closer to the building at night when normally closed. No trough urinals (thankfully) since I started going regularly in 1993. I remember Sportsmans had some of those on first floor grandstand, even after their big makeover and auto conversion in 2000 to it's end. Last I knew Sportys (RIP), was completely rubble. Don't know if CD still has those, had them in some first floor areas 1991 too.

Unforunate things they can't control in the region, as the land was purchased over 100 years ago, but they didn't buy up the surrounding area, and the city of Chicago and the areas industrial areas and residential needs (sewage treatment canal & private garbase company transfer station, oil refinery & nickle plant).

Midway Airport Area area has undergone a great amount of upgrading, tranformation & growth about 3 miles to the south - nice hotels and restaurants.

Am I concerned? Only a little. I don't have a car, and currently still live near AP, but used to drive for the live racing when Scott McMannis used to be there, but they dropped him, and AP picked him up, and he does OTB semiars and hosts OTB tournaments for the AP/CD owned parlors now, draws a decent crowd for OTBs.

I've actually felt a Night Thoroughbred Racing experiment in Chicago was overdue for a very long time. Ever since the horrid deal that that split the afternoon/night racing and simulcast money shares between TBs (afternoon) and Harness(evening) so that a track couldn't race in the other timeslot, felt it hurt the promotion of both breeds. Glad to Hawthorne, which already had the lights, could reach some sort of deal with the Harness tracks that they are also OTB partners with. Maybe it'll attract some live attendance, but also get or keep a few people from the day out at night. Now, being host TB track, they might get to keep that Daytime simulcast money, I don't know. But at least they take a try - and maybe both the Hawthorne fans, Night TB fans, night Harness fans, the Maywood (no picnic night racing neighborhood) and/or Balmoral live harness fans, will hopefully not only support, but cross-support the local products.

By the way, when Hawthorne hosted several weeks of Harness racing before the racing board and the harness tracks killed that off, they raced at night, and I'm not aware of any serious problems. No denying the big difference in opinions from the tracks and regions from most of the AP and Hawthorne locals. Well, for those who don't want to make the trip to Hawthorne, hopefully they'll still follow on the Internet or the IL OTBs.

As a fan of both tracks, a thumbs up from me. :ThmbUp:

[Steve 'StatMan']

When Hawthorne's old wooden grandstand burned down in 1978, I was hopeful that the Carey's would replace it with something special. During the rebuilding, I had a dream that I went to the new Hawthorne. The track was at the bottom of a Quarry and the grandstand was a metal open air grandstand perched on the edge of the quarry.
The reality turned out to be better but not by much. The building is too big by a factor of two. The interior of the grandstand is unfinished with bare walls and concrete floors. The view from the clubhouse is blocked by the grandstand. Tenzing Norkay would be nervous navigating the rows of the upper grandstand. (I believe they no longer open that section.)
As for the neighborhood, unless you're walking, it shouldn't be a problem.
There is ample secure parking especially since crowds are way down. The buses stop nearby.
The factory like building actually fits in with its surroundings which are primarily truck terminals, oil storage depots and an abandoned Drive In theater. The sanitary canal is nearby.

When was the last time you were at Hawthorne? They finished off all the floors in 1999 when AP & SPT were closed, and they had the full year of TB racing. 1st floor's flooring surface was tile and now something else, bit better. Most of the live fans watch the Live Racing and simulcasts on the TVs, though some go to the 2nd floor grandstand. More people watch the live racing from the ground floor and 3rd floor(best view, can watch through window or go out side, piegeons petty much under control)

They only rebuilt the track back in 1980-ish with the insurance money from the fire, and they really hadn't insured it for modern replacement costs when it happened. They did their rebuilding gradually. Tom Carey 2nd (called Sr, technically Jr) They were proud of being debt-free, until they merged with the Sportsmans/National Jockey Club, and Carey III (technically, refered to as Jr) was left in charge for a few years, then the money troubles really started.

No plain cement floors since 1999 anywhere. All floors have drop ceilings, acoustics far better. All pillars boxed in, some of those boxes now have SAM machines and marble surfaces. Much, much nicer, save the pre-1999 memories as the old, thankfully gone days. Althogh the 1980's, narrow plastic seats still remain - doubt those will ever go away now in the simulcast age, and lots of tables, chairs, and carrells in the grandstand. Gold Cup Room and Turf Clubs only part of Clubhouse are still open, rest closed but rented out for shows, etc.

[Irish Boy]

I was there in April for the Illinois Derby. It's still a dump.

I'm a huge supporter of the night racing "experiment", but the whole point is to expose more people to racing. New patrons simply will not go to Hawthorne; or, conversely, if they do, they'll never return. It's a place to go if you like horseracing already and are willing to overlook all the problems with the location/facilities. You won't get families, or younger players, or first time players.

I know it would require a facilities upgrade in regards to lighting, but Arlington really would be perfect for this. They already try to push Friday first post as late as possible, but a first post at 7:00 with racing that ran until 10:20 or so on Fridays would bring in 20,000 a week- many of whom have never been to a racetrack before. That's how you build a clientele.

[BIG49010]

Why is TVG giving them so much coverage? Mike Joyce Spending a week there? What's up with that?

Must have drawn the short straw!

A week in Cicero, I wonder if they compted his room at the Sportsman Motel, or maybe the Presidental.

[mostpost]

When was the last time you were at Hawthorne? They finished off all the floors in 1999 when AP & SPT were closed, and they had the full year of TB racing. 1st floor's flooring surface was tile and now something else, bit better. Most of the live fans watch the Live Racing and simulcasts on the TVs, though some go to the 2nd floor grandstand. More people watch the live racing from the ground floor and 3rd floor(best view, can watch through window or go out side, piegeons petty much under control)

They only rebuilt the track back in 1980-ish with the insurance money from the fire, and they really hadn't insured it for modern replacement costs when it happened. They did their rebuilding gradually. Tom Carey 2nd (called Sr, technically Jr) They were proud of being debt-free, until they merged with the Sportsmans/National Jockey Club, and Carey III (technically, refered to as Jr) was left in charge for a few years, then the money troubles really started.

No plain cement floors since 1999 anywhere. All floors have drop ceilings, acoustics far better. All pillars boxed in, some of those boxes now have SAM machines and marble surfaces. Much, much nicer, save the pre-1999 memories as the old, thankfully gone days. Althogh the 1980's, narrow plastic seats still remain - doubt those will ever go away now in the simulcast age, and lots of tables, chairs, and carrells in the grandstand. Gold Cup Room and Turf Clubs only part of Clubhouse are still open, rest closed but rented out for shows, etc.
I am not sure when I was last there, but I'm pretty sure it was since 1999.
Nonetheless I'm sure your descriptions are much more current and/or accurate than mine. Maybe I'll take a ride there next week to refresh my faulty memory.
I know the Carey family has nowhere near the financial resources of Ducchoisoie (Wrong spelling, sorry). Had they known how the game was going to change, I'm sure they would have rebuilt differently. They spent money for room they no longer need. But hindsight is always 20/20.

Question: Was Carey III involved in the Sportsmans/Auto Racing Fiasco? I don't recall, but I do recall that when they announced the plan my immediate thought was DISASTER.

[illinoisbred]

Its a shame no thought was given to relocating the track out of Stickney.I always thought somewhere down 53, north of 355[was a lot of vacant land at the time there] would have been ideal. That would have been a short corridor between AP and Haw., and probably would have resulted in some better stables staying year-round.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Hi MostPost, Carey III was involved with the merge of Sportsmans after the car meet. Charles Bidwell III (called C3) was heavily involved in the Sportsman's/Chicago Motor Speedway/CART fiasco. Yup, you and I were among the many who questioned that one big time right up front. Was truly sad.

Generally agree a track out further would have been better. Some speculation arries at times that the Bidwells might doing that again, but that's only internet speculation of others.

Would love to have seen a setup where the rebuilt Hawtorne had been with grandstand on the other side of the track - that way the fans would have a view of the track and the Chicago Skyline. Don't know if that ever came up, but with limited funds to rebuild, knocking down the HAW barns & putting new barns where the old grandstand was, next to SPTs old barns, was probably too much. Besides, with no control of the next property to the south (not sure when it became the Waste Management station) fans would not want to be near that.

Sportsman's was at least lucky that their fan view showed the back of Hawthorne, and hid the nickle plant. About another 0.2 mile further from the major smells - a slightly better bargain.

Would like to see AP try the night racing personally. They don't have the lights - they did at one time before the '85 fire, had been added for a short-lived Harness experiment in the 80's. Pretty sure they were removed after the fire - believe they are in the pictures of the racing surface from the fire, and the Miracle Million of '85.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Don't recall if City of Chicago ever had anything built where Meigs Field was along the lake. If not, and airport never to return, wonder if a racetrack would have worked - but land (and payoffs) probably way too expensive. Plus weather conditions right along the lake can differ quite a bit from just a few blocks away from the lake.

[illinoisbred]

I meant to include Sportsmans in a merger with Haw. regarding the move northwest.I think the Meigs field area is still"vacant".Think of all the days they would loose due to wind,LAKE-EFFECT snow and the occasional wave[s] overwashing the track.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Yeah, Meigs probably not practical. Don't know if the waves were a problem for the planes, but the landing strip wouldn't get washed away. Lake Effect Snow, yeah, probably a problem.

[Valuist]

Hawthorne is a great track to bet. Yes, its not pleasing to the eye but so what? At least they run on real dirt and they usually get good field sizes. I stopped betting Arlington (after 25 years) last year. But quit Hawthorne? No way.

[Valuist]

Don't recall if City of Chicago ever had anything built where Meigs Field was along the lake. If not, and airport never to return, wonder if a racetrack would have worked - but land (and payoffs) probably way too expensive. Plus weather conditions right along the lake can differ quite a bit from just a few blocks away from the lake.

They built Charter One Pavilion at Northerly Island where Meigs used to be. They had several concerts this past summer: REO & Styx, Judas Priest and Heaven and Hell (Dio-Sabbath, not Ozzy). Great concert venue. View of the lake on one side and the skyline on the other.

[WinterTriangle]

actually a dirt track with a stretch run long enough to eliminate some inside speed bias with low takeouts. Not so bad from a handicappers prospective.

I played it 10-1. 9th race long route, handicapped out perfectly for a dirt track and ran totally fair. I was pleasantly surprised. The horses came in exactly as they *should*, IMHO.

[illinoisbred]

I played it 10-1. 9th race long route, handicapped out perfectly for a dirt track and ran totally fair. I was pleasantly surprised. The horses came in exactly as they *should*, IMHO.
The 9th was a turf race,not dirt.

[WinterTriangle]

The 9th was a turf race,not dirt.

LOL you're right. Just looked over my notes.

But really, it played so fair, form and class (which is what I look at in a 9F race) at least by my notes, held up COMPLETELY.

Ariel Smith did great all day. Gotta watch that one.

[illinoisbred]

LOL you're right. Just looked over my notes.

But really, it played so fair, form and class (which is what I look at in a 9F race) at least by my notes, held up COMPLETELY.

Ariel Smith did great all day. Gotta watch that one.
Agree. Smith is highly underated.He's been hot the last week-10 days.For all the criticism[including myself],I like the racing at Hawthorne,particularily the fall meet. My average mutual is always bigger than at AP.

[GaryG]

We must be the only ones that voted for Haw on the contest thread.

[Tom]

I was torn between Haw and TP.

I like Haw a lot. Nice angle is a dirt horse whose last lines are from Arlington, but has competitive figs 3-4-5 lines ago on dirt.

[illinoisbred]

I was torn between Haw and TP.

I like Haw a lot. Nice angle is a dirt horse whose last lines are from Arlington, but has competitive figs 3-4-5 lines ago on dirt.
you bet!

[GaryG]

Looks like Brueggemann has freshened much of his stable for this meet. Was hot at the spring meet but cold at AP.

[illinoisbred]

Looks like Brueggemann has freshened much of his stable for this meet. Was hot at the spring meet but cold at AP.
That seems to have been the case the last 2 years, probably expect the same this year. He must really dread when AP opens. ITs odd how his stock and Kirby's perform so poor on poly.

[BlueShoe]

After doing poorly on Arlingtons plastic (turf was ok) am looking forward to Hawthorne.Ah,dirt,I can just smell it,cant you?

[illinoisbred]

After doing poorly on Arlingtons plastic (turf was ok) am looking forward to Hawthorne.Ah,dirt,I can just smell it,cant you?
Calling for rain this afternoon,had quite a lot last night.

[Valuist]

Looks like Brueggemann has freshened much of his stable for this meet. Was hot at the spring meet but cold at AP.

Brueggeman has always had a strong dichotomy between his horse's performances on dirt and Polytrack. He always does well at Haw, but now he'll do much worse at AP due to the PlastiTrack.

[wisconsin]

Just want to throw my 2 cents in.

Hawthorne is far from a dump. Is it more plain, sure it is. But it was modern when they built it 30 years ago. It was built to handle the larger crowds. Remember, back in the late 70's early 80's that track still drew 15k on Saturday and 7-8k during the week. The sightlines from the 3rd floor grandstand are better than any track I have been to, and I have been to many. As far as the enclosure goes, did you ever spend a frigid day in the open air grandstand before it burnt down? It's a cold weather facility. They did take the glass out on the 3rd floor, so it's open air up there.

I have seen many more dumpy looking tracks than Hawthorne.

The one thing they should have kept was the infield paddock they built in 1987.

[illinoisbred]

Just want to throw my 2 cents in.

Hawthorne is far from a dump. Is it more plain, sure it is. But it was modern when they built it 30 years ago. It was built to handle the larger crowds. Remember, back in the late 70's early 80's that track still drew 15k on Saturday and 7-8k during the week. The sightlines from the 3rd floor grandstand are better than any track I have been to, and I have been to many. As far as the enclosure goes, did you ever spend a frigid day in the open air grandstand before it burnt down? It's a cold weather facility. They did take the glass out on the 3rd floor, so it's open air up there.

I have seen many more dumpy looking tracks than Hawthorne.

The one thing they should have kept was the infield paddock they built in 1987.
The outdoor paddock was nice.If I remember correctly they did away with it because of some injuries sustained in the tunnel. I remember those big crowds at Haw. and Sportsmans,which had heaters in the ceiling that often flamed-out on cold days.You couldn't beat the close -to -action feel Spt. had. I thought Haw. did a great job filling the gap during AP's rebuilding years.

[wisconsin]

The outdoor paddock was nice.If I remember correctly they did away with it because of some injuries sustained in the tunnel. I remember those big crowds at Haw. and Sportsmans,which had heaters in the ceiling that often flamed-out on cold days.You couldn't beat the close -to -action feel Spt. had. I thought Haw. did a great job filling the gap during AP's rebuilding years.

The loss of Sportsman's is a sad spot in my heart. I'm talking the old, pre-Nascar era. A great place to watch racing. I remember some huge Saturday crowds nearing 30k in the late 70's. I was just a teen then, but the feel was great. Now, it seems like an early morning weekday mass at the track these days.

[Valuist]

I loved the old bullring Spt before they turned it into a 7f disaster. Used to be a great betting track.

[illinoisbred]

I loved the old bullring Spt before they turned it into a 7f disaster. Used to be a great betting track.
Could not beat the atmosphere!One of my memories involved 1 of my favorite horses-wasn't pleasant,but he was unharmed. As the field approached the far tun,Earlstone[trained by John Gural] was making his move on the outside, he couldn't make the turn and went right through the picket fence with Doug Richard or Leslie Ahrens still aboard.Thankfully, neither was injured.

[BIG49010]

The loss of Sportsman's is a sad spot in my heart. I'm talking the old, pre-Nascar era. A great place to watch racing. I remember some huge Saturday crowds nearing 30k in the late 70's. I was just a teen then, but the feel was great. Now, it seems like an early morning weekday mass at the track these days.

I agree, Stormy used to do a great job at Sportsman's, even with the 7/8th track before the Car track. I thought they should of made Hawthorne into a Car track and kept Sportsman's.

I was at Hawthorne the first day of racing in the new plant, back in the day, and thought who's idea was it to build this shit hole. The old Hawthorne was great, but then again Tom played football with leather helmets, so I guess he had some brain damage.

[illinoisbred]

I agree, Stormy used to do a great job at Sportsman's, even with the 7/8th track before the Car track. I thought they should of made Hawthorne into a Car track and kept Sportsman's.

I was at Hawthorne the first day of racing in the new plant, back in the day, and thought who's idea was it to build this shit hole. The old Hawthorne was great, but then again Tom played football with leather helmets, so I guess he had some brain damage.
I remember that rickety-old,wooden Hawthorne,went there as a kid.Massive crowds and a lot of smoke!

[goforgin]

I went to Hawthorne last night and it was a good time. It was their 2nd Friday of night racing. Lots of TV's and tellers. No long lines except at the $1 beer and dogs (mostly the dog line), but no more than 2-5 minutes. The 'ol plant is old, but they do their best to keep it maintained (see prior posts). Live band and also Octoberfest beer imports. Unfortunately, due to all the rain we've had they had to take the 2 turf races off. If they do it again next year I would go again. :6:

[fmolf]

I went to Hawthorne last night and it was a good time. It was their 2nd Friday of night racing. Lots of TV's and tellers. No long lines except at the $1 beer and dogs (mostly the dog line), but no more than 2-5 minutes. The 'ol plant is old, but they do their best to keep it maintained (see prior posts). Live band and also Octoberfest beer imports. Unfortunately, due to all the rain we've had they had to take the 2 turf races off. If they do it again next year I would go again. :6:
I commend any racing establishment that has night racing.I believe it is the key to getting younger people involved in the sport.Younger players are not going to go unless it is at night.Night racing at least on fri. sat. is the way to go.$1 beer and dogs also excellent!