Arlington's last day

[illinoisbred]

Arlington's meet comes to a close today.There is a fair place pick-9 carryover with a mandatory payout today.Gone for awhile is the plastic,Hawthorne opens thursday with "real" dirt.No more strangleholds on horses for the 1st 1/2 mile in sprints.However, the riders do seem to rate more in route and turf races at Hawthorne since the advent of poly at AP.On the minus side, Hawthorne has serious/often timer malfunctions in routes and turf races.If you're an occasional player-beware. 2010 racing dates were alotted recently.It looks like racing will be conducted on a 4 day week schedule throughout the year if the "frozen" casino dollars are not relinquished.This money is tied-up due to the far-reaching corruption of our former governor.

[Bruddah]

Arlington's meet comes to a close today.There is a fair place pick-9 carryover with a mandatory payout today.Gone for awhile is the plastic,Hawthorne opens thursday with "real" dirt.No more strangleholds on horses for the 1st 1/2 mile in sprints.However, the riders do seem to rate more in route and turf races at Hawthorne since the advent of poly at AP.On the minus side, Hawthorne has serious/often timer malfunctions in routes and turf races.If you're an occasional player-beware. 2010 racing dates were alotted recently.It looks like racing will be conducted on a 4 day week schedule throughout the year if the "frozen" casino dollars are not relinquished.This money is tied-up due to the far-reaching corruption of our former governor.

When I lived in the Chicago area during the late 70's and early 80's, I went to both Hawthorne and Sportsman. There were a lot of timing/ camera issues back then. I always wondered how the "Boys" on Cicero Ave. could never seem to get those problems corrected. :eek: :faint:

[illinoisbred]

When I lived the Chicago area during the late 70's and early 80's, I went to both Hawthorne and Sportsman. There were a lot of timing issues back then. I always wondered how the "Boys" on Cicero Ave. could never seem to get those problems corrected. :eek: :faint:
Yeah. Sometimes I wish they would have a malfunction during the running of the Hawthorne Gold Cup.Maybe more national attention would stir them to fix the chronic problem.

[illinoisbred]

Bruddah,do you remember when the old Sportsmans was altered from a 5/8 oval to a 7F paperclip? I aiways believed that renovated track was shorter then they claimed.At the time, I was doing surveying work and asked for permission to accurately measure that track.I was refused, even with a little nudge by Scott McMannis on my behalf.

[Bruddah]

Yeah. Sometimes I wish they would have a malfunction during the running of the Hawthorne Gold Cup.Maybe more national attention would stir them to fix the chronic problem.

Except for the extreme winter snow storms back then, this old southern boy loved the people, big city atmosphere and horse racing.

The timing/ camera issues caused me to stop betting those tracks. I started attending Arlington in the summer months because I moved to Arlington Heights. A great Chicago land area in those days. After moving to other parts of the country, I would have to fly through Chicago. Sometimes, I would spend the weekends just to go the races at Arlington. At least until it started burning every couple of years. I never could understand how steel and concrete could ignite spontaneously and rage like a Kansas prarie fire. Especially, with the fire dept. only blocks away. :rolleyes: ;)

[illinoisbred]

Except for the extreme winter snow storms back then, this old southern boy loved the people, big city atmosphere and horse racing.

The timing/ camera issues caused me to stop betting those tracks. I started attending Arlington in the summer months because I moved to Arlington Heights. A great Chicago land area in those days. After moving to other parts of the country, I would have to fly through Chicago. Sometimes, I would spend the weekends just to go the races at Arlington. At least until it started burning every couple of years. I never could understand how steel and concrete could ignite spontaneously and rage like a Kansas prarie fire. Especially, with the fire dept. only blocks away. :rolleyes: ;)
Certainly was strange.I can remember waking up that monday morming ,putting on the tv and watching in disbelief. Do you remember in the late 80's at the Hawthorne fall meeting when Marco Salazar went on a tear with Luis Martinez? I understand the stewards were looking pretty hard-they thought 1of the2 was up to something.It all really pales in comparison to what we witness now with W. Catalano.Is he a superior horseman that can read a condition book better than anyone else or is it something else?Almost every horse he touches runs a new top,even 5-6 yr. olds.

[Bruddah]

Bruddah,do you remember when the old Sportsmans was altered from a 5/8 oval to a 7F paperclip? I aiways believed that renovated track was shorter then they claimed.At the time, I was doing surveying work and asked for permission to accurately measure that track.I was refused, even with a little nudge by Scott McMannis on my behalf.

I sure do, but I believe I had been transferred to Richmond Va. by then. I was either living there or for a time in the Kansas City area when all that happened.

I'm with you and Scott M. on the 7/8th's oval being smaller than advertised.

[Valuist]

Certainly was strange.I can remember waking up that monday morming ,putting on the tv and watching in disbelief. Do you remember in the late 80's at the Hawthorne fall meeting when Marco Salazar went on a tear with Luis Martinez? I understand the stewards were looking pretty hard-they thought 1of the2 was up to something.It all really pales in comparison to what we witness now with W. Catalano.Is he a superior horseman that can read a condition book better than anyone else or is it something else?Almost every horse he touches runs a new top,even 5-6 yr. olds.

Salazar was my favorite Chicago trainer in the late 80s, at least at Haw and Spt. He was Dutrow, before Dutrow. The move-ups were amazing then in the early 90s, he disappeared out of sight. I see he's resurfaced the past 5 years or so, but much lower profile now, and no bizarre moveups.

The worst thing Sportsman's ever did was change the 5f track to a 7f track. There was an apprentice who got killed in the early 90s, but it had nothing to do with the sharp turns. The rider got thrown and trampled and crushed. Lukas came out after the death and said he'd never run a horse there again......he hardly ever ran anything there to begin with so why this got Spt mngmnt up in arms is anyone's guess. Then when they renovated it, they didn't change the turns. You still had 2 extremely tight turns and extremely long stretches. The track looked like a stretched out rubber band. If anything, it became more unsafe because with the long straightaways, the horses could really get a full head of steam going before they hit the turns.

In any event, AP and Haw have no business running any more than 4 days a week. Haw could fill cards 5 days a week before Hoosier came around, but now so many FP horsemen go there instead.

[Bruddah]

Certainly was strange.I can remember waking up that monday morming ,putting on the tv and watching in disbelief. Do you remember in the late 80's at the Hawthorne fall meeting when Marco Salazar went on a tear with Luis Martinez? I understand the stewards were looking pretty hard-they thought 1of the2 was up to something.It all really pales in comparison to what we witness now with W. Catalano.Is he a superior horseman that can read a condition book better than anyone else or is it something else?Almost every horse he touches runs a new top,even 5-6 yr. olds.

I am with you on Mr Catalano as a superior trainer. ;) I think many questions on his win percentage in Chicago land can be answered by scrutinizing his owners and their relationships. Tony Soprano would be envious of that group and their connections. ;)

[illinoisbred]

Salazar was my favorite Chicago trainer in the late 80s, at least at Haw and Spt. He was Dutrow, before Dutrow. The move-ups were amazing then in the early 90s, he disappeared out of sight. I see he's resurfaced the past 5 years or so, but much lower profile now, and no bizarre moveups.

The worst thing Sportsman's ever did was change the 5f track to a 7f track. There was an apprentice who got killed in the early 90s, but it had nothing to do with the sharp turns. The rider got thrown and trampled and crushed. Lukas came out after the death and said he'd never run a horse there again......he hardly ever ran anything there to begin with so why this got Spt mngmnt up in arms is anyone's guess. Then when they renovated it, they didn't change the turns. You still had 2 extremely tight turns and extremely long stretches. The track looked like a stretched out rubber band. If anything, it became more unsafe because with the long straightaways, the horses could really get a full head of steam going before they hit the turns.

In any event, AP and Haw have no business running any more than 4 days a week. Haw could fill cards 5 days a week before Hoosier came around, but now so many FP horsemen go there instead.
I got to admit, I was more into trainer patterns back then, so Salazar was good to me too.Also,Troy Patrick.Whatever happened to him? Rodney Dickens was the jockey killed at Sportsmans on a springtime sunday.He was a young kid from Kentucky from a very impoverished family.I think he was riding a Hondo Ranch/Frank Kirby horse.Lukas did eat his words.He ran and won the Illinois Derby with War.As far as the 4 day week, you're right.I need to seriously scout out a 2nd circuit,the 3 dark days just kill me.

[illinoisbred]

Way to go Tim Thornton, Steve Fridley, and Peyote Patty! Nice win with a really nice filly.This is really confirming my feeling that Michelle Boyce just isn't getting potentially talented horses to develop any longer. She's lost her touch.

[Steve 'StatMan']

At Sportsmans, Rodney Dickens died on the old 5f track - sadly, that was the first day I ever attended Sportsman's Park live. That was in 1991. They converted to 7f in 1992 (the last conversion before the approx. 7f car track.) Francisco Torres was riding the leader, near the rail, when it snaped a leg and fell. Dickens was right behind, and fell forward over his own horse and it lept the fallen horse & rider, and then stepped/kicked him when landing on/near him. Still remember that tragedy, I had just started learning the handicapping and details of the racing game around that time.

Illionois Bred, do I know you bychance? I'm Steve Miller from Scott's Handicapping Classes & Seminars, big, tall, glasses, laptop computer (big notebook binders in the old days).

[illinoisbred]

At Sportsmans, Rodney Dickens died on the old 5f track - sadly, that was the first day I ever attended Sportsman's Park live. That was in 1991. They converted to 7f in 1992 (the last conversion before the approx. 7f car track.) Francisco Torres was riding the leader, near the rail, when it snaped a leg and fell. Dickens was right behind, and fell forward over his own horse and it lept the fallen horse & rider, and then stepped/kicked him when landing on/near him. Still remember that tragedy, I had just started learning the handicapping and details of the racing game around that time.

Illionois Bred, do I know you bychance? I'm Steve Miller from Scott's Handicapping Classes & Seminars, big, tall, glasses, laptop computer (big notebook binders in the old days).
I might know you if I saw you. I really haven't attended the races for years outside of an occasional visit.My dad was quite friendly with Scott and I became so in the mid to late 80's. I've seen your name mentioned in Scott's literature regarding your assistance to his data collection. I play from home but really miss Scott'''s weekend seminars/guests.It's a shame because I live just 25.6 miles from the track.

[illinoisbred]

Also, remembering Dickens, the sad story was that he was from a fairly large poor family and his plan was to financially help his folks out. I wouldn't want to make that phone call to his family that sunday.Also, I should add I do remember visiting Scott at the "old" AP-a boxed-off room with yellow walls, so that had to have been before the fire in 85.The new AP is an absolute palace, but there are times I fondly think about the old cavernous,shaky floors[from escalators] monsterous grandstand and the tree-filled paddock.That's where I fell in love with this sport.

[BIG49010]

I am with you on Mr Catalano as a superior trainer. ;) I think many questions on his win percentage in Chicago land can be answered by scrutinizing his owners and their relationships. Tony Soprano would be envious of that group and their connections. ;)

I think your off base on your comments, with over 2000 wins and 30 million in earnings, with a good record going back to when he started for Van Berg in the mid 80's. Catalano, without Calabrase, still cleaned up at AP, wouldn't suspect him to fall off a cliff.

You want to talk Soprano look at guys like Vinci or Tomlio, these guys didn't even know where there barns were located, while Catalano still gets on horses in the morning.

[Donnie]

I'm Steve Miller from Scott's Handicapping Classes & Seminars, big, tall, glasses, laptop computer (big notebook binders in the old days).

Steve= you forgot "good tournament player" in your description!! Hope you are doing well, my man!

[illinoisbred]

I think your off base on your comments, with over 2000 wins and 30 million in earnings, with a good record going back to when he started for Van Berg in the mid 80's. Catalano, without Calabrase, still cleaned up at AP, wouldn't suspect him to fall off a cliff.

You want to talk Soprano look at guys like Vinci or Tomlio, these guys didn't even know where there barns were located, while Catalano still gets on horses in the morning.
I don't feel he's way off base. Yes,Wayne knows how to get the most out of young, developing horses.I feel there's cause for suspicion when you examine the speed figures he gets from older established runners.It's shouldn't be a common occurence to get new tops on 5-7 yr. olds,race after race.Not everyone he claims off is an idiot. I know his supporters always say he's a superior horseman who gets on his stock himself in the mornings,has excellent advisors on who to claim[I wouldn't argue that point], experiments more with different bits,so on and so on.It's funny to mention Van Berg, recently he publicy criticized the so-called "supertrainers" more or less saying they're doing something besides hay,oats, and water. As for Vinci, he's dead, has been for years. Tomillo won 1 race at the just completed meet.I know he's hasn't been well health-wise for several years, and has lost horses/clients.As for the soprano comparison,is there anyone better than Calabrese?He comes across many times as a crude, mouthy lout.He's truly one of the "unwashed".

[Show Me the Wire]

My friend Charlie, may he rest in peace, knew his barn locations, knew his horses and knew how to train.

[illinoisbred]

My friend Charlie, may he rest in peace, knew where his barn was located and knew how to train.
So true. Wasn't his nickname "the wizard"?

[Show Me the Wire]

illinoisbred:

I really don't recall? Sounds familiar though.

[Bruddah]

I think your off base on your comments, with over 2000 wins and 30 million in earnings, with a good record going back to when he started for Van Berg in the mid 80's. Catalano, without Calabrase, still cleaned up at AP, wouldn't suspect him to fall off a cliff.

You want to talk Soprano look at guys like Vinci or Tomlio, these guys didn't even know where there barns were located, while Catalano still gets on horses in the morning.

Since I haven't really played Chicago tracks in many years, and I am repeating heresay comments made by several friends, who have played those tracks for 40+ years, I stand corrected and admonished. Therefore consider my comments and post retracted. Thank you for the update on Mr Catalano and his riding and training abilities. May he live long and prosper.

Please don't be offended if I don't repeat your comments on Mr Tomlio or Vinci. I haven't known you for 40 years and don't want to make the same mistake twice. :ThmbUp:

[BIG49010]

My friend Charlie, may he rest in peace, knew his barn locations, knew his horses and knew how to train.


Charlie, had Joe Cantou train his string for many years, but hands on Vinci was not. He did know where his barn was located, and also the clubhouse where he hung out with Mr. Wexler.

I did know he passed, but to compare a guy like Catalano to the mob because he trained for Frank C. was out of bounds. Frank is a jerk, but many wealty people in the world are jerks.

[illinoisbred]

Charlie, had Joe Cantou train his string for many years, but hands on Vinci was not. He did know where his barn was located, and also the clubhouse where he hung out with Mr. Wexler.

I did know he passed, but to compare a guy like Catalano to the mob because he trained for Frank C. was out of bounds. Frank is a jerk, but many wealty people in the world are jerks.
Mr. Wexler has been one of my favorite owners for years.He had some good runners years ago with Clifford Scott.On a personal note , after my Grandfather died, my Grandmother was forced to enter the workplace and ended up taking a hostess position at Twin Orchards Country Club in Long Grove,Il..Mr Wexler and Mr Lavin[alberto/culver,glen hill farm] were members there.They both were very nice and made this difficult transition easier.In those years, thats all my grandmother talked about-what gentlemen they were.I didn't think any comparisons of Catalano to the mob were made.I truly think Wayne works hard and the results show.I just always find it odd when a trainer can claim an established runner and get it to run out of it's skin race after race.It's kind of like a 70 yr. old re-entering the workplace and outperforming 30 yr olds.

[Bruddah]

Charlie, had Joe Cantou train his string for many years, but hands on Vinci was not. He did know where his barn was located, and also the clubhouse where he hung out with Mr. Wexler.

I did know he passed, but to compare a guy like Catalano to the mob because he trained for Frank C. was out of bounds. Frank is a jerk, but many wealty people in the world are jerks.

I'm sure your parents told you like mine did. You are known by the company you choose to keep. So be wise in those choices. ;)

[illinoisbred]

Not to dwell on Calabrese,but by and large,aren't operators like him bad for a circuit?He devalues horseflesh week-to week.Smaller stables are reluctant to drop[many times needed] for fear he'll claim them.Many here in Illinois have for all practical purposes been put out of business. Most are leery of claiming off Calabrese, with good reason-you won't obtain the same results.I know the real problem is the purse structure[too high for moderate claimers]and lack of a "jail" period.It seems wrong to be able to claim a horse for 15,000 come back 2 weeks later for 7,500,win,lose the horse, and break-even or make a little.Calabrese's ego is so large, he needs this constant feeding.It appeared to be an awkward moment Yesterday when Mr. D. was presenting the leading owner of the meet award to Calabrese.I'm not sure he wanted to give Frank the microphone,and seemed relieved when Frank just said "thank you".

[wisconsin]

Arlington Park burned down on a Thursday morning. I was there the day before, hit the last race, an Illinois bred named "Boy From Bliss". I really do miss old Arlington. It's not the same feel today. I went to Monmouth a couple of summers ago, and that was like going to old Arlington. The new place is spiffy enough, but lacks the racetrack feel that I personally enjoy. Ols Sportsman's is another sad situation. I loved that track. The stretch was 902 feet long. Some mile tracks are 990 only. The redone strech was a whopping 1547 feet! But once the barns were gone, the place was never the same ambiance. Sad.

[illinoisbred]

Arlington Park burned down on a Thursday morning. I was there the day before, hit the last race, an Illinois bred named "Boy From Bliss". I really do miss old Arlington. It's not the same feel today. I went to Monmouth a couple of summers ago, and that was like going to old Arlington. The new place is spiffy enough, but lacks the racetrack feel that I personally enjoy. Ols Sportsman's is another sad situation. I loved that track. The stretch was 902 feet long. Some mile tracks are 990 only. The redone strech was a whopping 1547 feet! But once the barns were gone, the place was never the same ambiance. Sad.
You're probably right about the day[thursday]My last day before the fire was sunday and I've always thought it caught fire that night. Old story, but that last day I missed the pick-6 for want of adding one horse-a 4-5 with Randy Romero on the turf-liked him,just didn't want to spend more.I got the consolation but it wasn't very consoling.

[wisconsin]

And it was trainer Arturo Blaze (no pun intended) who broke into the racing office and saved all of the registration papers on the horses on the grounds!

The fire was sad, and they all though it was under control in the clubhouse side, but it ran unknown through the 2nd floor false ceiling across the grandstand. There was plenty of wood to burn, however, in that old place. and the fire spread to the 3rd floor, and as the second floor burned, it all collapsed into the first floor. There really was no way to save a 60 year old place like that.

Mr. D and his partners had just bought the old place from Mooney the Looney and Madison Square Garden the year before.

Now, the Washington Park and Hawthorne fires of the 70's, those were more suspicious.

[Bruddah]

My favorite memories/ days of Arlington were when Earlie Fires was da Man. A bad day at Arlington was always better than a good day somewhere else.

Give me an Italian sausage, DRF, beer and I was a happy man. With enough winners and beer, my pronunciation of deeze and doze made me sound like a Cicero Ave. home boy. :D

The greater Chicago area was a great place to live. I enjoyed it and my friends immensely.

[illinoisbred]

And it was trainer Arturo Blaze (no pun intended) who broke into the racing office and saved all of the registration papers on the horses on the grounds!

The fire was sad, and they all though it was under control in the clubhouse side, but it ran unknown through the 2nd floor false ceiling across the grandstand. There was plenty of wood to burn, however, in that old place. and the fire spread to the 3rd floor, and as the second floor burned, it all collapsed into the first floor. There really was no way to save a 60 year old place like that.

Mr. D and his partners had just bought the old place from Mooney the Looney and Madison Square Garden the year before.

Now, the Washington Park and Hawthorne fires of the 70's, those were more suspicious.
Geesh, your memory is good.I remember Blaze's involvement now.He had the reputation of being a large bettor,don't know how true that is. I do remember going to Washington Park once when I was very young.Remember "old" Hawthorne too-always huge crowds on saturdays[no sunday racing then]. Before the AP fire, didn't they refer to the meet Arlington/washington park?

[illinoisbred]

My favorite memories/ days of Arlington were when Earlie Fires was da Man. A bad day at Arlington was always better than a good day somewhere else.

Give me an Italian sausage, DRF, beer and I was a happy man. With enough winners and beer, my pronunciation of deeze and doze made me sound like a Cicero Ave. home boy. :D

The greater Chicago area was a great place to live. I enjoyed it and my friends immensely.
Yeah! I spent a lot of great days there with buddies every bit as serious as me regarding handicapping.My family always said I should have my mail forwarded there.Internet wagering has sure come with a price-no socializing. I now reside just 2 miles from an AP off-track parlor-never go there either.Earlie was the man, when racing was racing at AP no one was any quicker at getting a horse out of gate than Earlie.To think of all the great horses I've seen compete on that oval!

[Show Me the Wire]

Charlie, had Joe Cantou train his string for many years, but hands on Vinci was not. He did know where his barn was located, and also the clubhouse where he hung out with Mr. Wexler. ...............
.

So those years I stood on the apron with Charlie watching him train his horses, is just my imagination.

I can't speak to Charlie's early years as a trainer as I did not know him then.

BTW you could always count on one of Wexler's horses winning on his Wexler's birthday.

[illinoisbred]

I think Charlie Vinci was the 1st Illinois trainer for Frank Calabrese.The relationship didn't last long-probably the best thing that ever happened for Charlie.I remember his wife Bernice usually accompanied him in the afternoons.Charlie did good for Avers-may he RIP

[BIG49010]

So those years I stood on the apron with Charlie watching him train his horses, is just my imagination.


I assume he was standing next to you watching for his saddle cloths, I'm sorry but that isn't training horses. Like I said before, Joe ran his outfit, he watched and entertained the clients.

[BIG49010]

I think Charlie Vinci was the 1st Illinois trainer for Frank Calabrese.The relationship didn't last long-probably the best thing that ever happened for Charlie.

I think he has fired every trainer in Chicago, but I think Danny Switzer was the first. He had a Jimmy Divito for a while, they had a couple good horses. Bret McGhee had a couple of good horses with him. He was big in harness also, in his early days I think. Jody Sinclair, Jim Mc Mullen, Paul Darjean. Nobody came close to Catalano though, or worked for him as long.

[Show Me the Wire]

Actually, at times he was fascinated by the coyotes in the infield, and he would lose track of his horse :D and I would have to point it out. I spent time with the man on and off the track. Your opinion is flawed. Having a hands on guy does not preclude the other person from having knowledge.

Charlie may you rest in peace.

[Bruddah]

Back in 1980-81-82, Arlington would hold handicapping classes on Saturday morning. My memory tells me that it was Bill Quirin that taught those classes. I think, I attended everyone for two years. (maybe a few exceptions) I know you Chicago guys will know. Thanks :ThmbUp:

[BIG49010]

I spent time with the man on and off the track. Your opinion is flawed. Having a hands on guy does not preclude the other person from having knowledge.

Having spent a great deal of time as an owner, and visiting with other owners I would say your view is flawed. Many people try to train horses hands off, that have no business doing it hands on, they usually end up broke and bitter.

Chicago, for some reason, has a bunch of these "program trainers for lack of a better name" who are able to saddle a horse in the paddock, and that is about as close as they get to their horses.

I can't remember the guys name for sure, but he was a mutual clerk and had several horses he was training, and one of his owners complained to me about the money he was loosing. I can't tell you how many times I watched Tom Tomillo claim horses that broke down during the races. Then you would see the horses names on the workout tab, and we would laugh wondering what poor owner was paying the day rate on a horse that was hauled off. The Camardo's, I don't know if they are still around, they were a pair. Doc Derosa, he was something else also RIP. I could go on and on. Ali Alnaz, another. Pat Cuccorallo another, he was almost always smart enough to hire good people though, in fact Hector Magana ran his shed for years.

The vets keep these people's horses in the game, but that's another fun subject.

[illinoisbred]

Back in 1980-81-82, Arlington would hold handicapping classes on Saturday morning. My memory tells me that it was Bill Quirin that taught those classes. I think, I attended everyone for two years. (maybe a few exceptions) I know you Chicago guys will know. Thanks :ThmbUp:
Other than Scott, I'm not sure who that may have been.Memory tells me there was a guy that floated between the tracks and Elgin Community College who taught handicapping classes but was more interested in forming ownership groups.I know Scott did have Quirin as a guest about that time-approx. time Winning at the Races was published.

[illinoisbred]

I just remembered-Jim Lentz was the guy I'm thinking of.

[illinoisbred]

Having spent a great deal of time as an owner, and visiting with other owners I would say your view is flawed. Many people try to train horses hands off, that have no business doing it hands on, they usually end up broke and bitter.

Chicago, for some reason, has a bunch of these "program trainers for lack of a better name" who are able to saddle a horse in the paddock, and that is about as close as they get to their horses.

I can't remember the guys name for sure, but he was a mutual clerk and had several horses he was training, and one of his owners complained to me about the money he was loosing. I can't tell you how many times I watched Tom Tomillo claim horses that broke down during the races. Then you would see the horses names on the workout tab, and we would laugh wondering what poor owner was paying the day rate on a horse that was hauled off. The Camardo's, I don't know if they are still around, they were a pair. Doc Derosa, he was something else also RIP. I could go on and on. Ali Alnaz, another. Pat Cuccorallo another, he was almost always smart enough to hire good people though, in fact Hector Magana ran his shed for years.

The vets keep these people's horses in the game, but that's another fun subject.
You're right ,but today some of these guys don't even saddle their horse.Tomillo does seem to have alot of breakdowns.In fact ,I think he had a good number of them the year before polytrack.I haven't seen or heard about Joey Camardo for several years,and yes, he was a shitty trainer.Dr. Derosa was way too enamoured with his plug stallion-Shenandoah River to ever have many good horses.Melanie Frances,who he privately purchased or didn't own and My Surgical Nurse,who was his and tragically brokedown after showing considerable talent.Didn't Cuccurullo go west- arizona?

[Bruddah]

Other than Scott, I'm not sure who that may have been.Memory tells me there was a guy that floated between the tracks and Elgin Community College who taught handicapping classes but was more interested in forming ownership groups.I know Scott did have Quirin as a guest about that time-approx. time Winning at the Races was published.

I remember Scott teaching several of these classes but the other guy held the Doctorate title and taught either in New York state or Arizona. I seem to remember he only gave those classes in July, August or both. I seem to remember he had a book being printed about that time. :confused:

[BIG49010]

At the old AP Scott had a guy named Bruce who used to be with him, and another guy I can't remember who moved to NYC. That was a long time ago.

[Bruddah]

Yes, it was Dr. William Quirin of Adelphi University. He holds a Doctorate of Mathmatics. A very engaging and entertaining instructor, as I remember. I really enjoyed his weekly seminars on those Saturday mornings. He would really pack them in. I remember it was held in a medium sized room on the second floor. Maybe on the North side of the building if I have my directions correct.

[illinoisbred]

You're right ,but today some of these guys don't even saddle their horse.Tomillo does seem to have alot of breakdowns.In fact ,I think he had a good number of them the year before polytrack.I haven't seen or heard about Joey Camardo for several years,and yes, he was a shitty trainer.Dr. Derosa was way too enamoured with his plug stallion-Shenandoah River to ever have many good horses.Melanie Frances,who he privately purchased or didn't own and My Surgical Nurse,who was his and tragically brokedown after showing considerable talent.Didn't Cuccurullo go west- arizona?
OOPS! The good one Derosa had was Deborah"s Review,not My Surgical Nurse.

[wisconsin]

Yes, it was Dr. William Quirin of Adelphi University. He holds a Doctorate of Mathmatics. A very engaging and entertaining instructor, as I remember. I really enjoyed his weekly seminars on those Saturday mornings. He would really pack them in. I remember it was held in a medium sized room on the second floor. Maybe on the North side of the building if I have my directions correct.


You had to walk through that mini-museum with the life size horse under tack to get to that room. Remember that?

[Show Me the Wire]

Having spent a great deal of time as an owner, and visiting with other owners I would say your view is flawed. Many people try to train horses hands off, that have no business doing it hands on, they usually end up broke and bitter.

Chicago, for some reason, has a bunch of these "program trainers for lack of a better name" who are able to saddle a horse in the paddock, and that is about as close as they get to their horses.

I can't remember the guys name for sure, but he was a mutual clerk and had several horses he was training, and one of his owners complained to me about the money he was loosing. I can't tell you how many times I watched Tom Tomillo claim horses that broke down during the races. Then you would see the horses names on the workout tab, and we would laugh wondering what poor owner was paying the day rate on a horse that was hauled off. The Camardo's, I don't know if they are still around, they were a pair. Doc Derosa, he was something else also RIP. I could go on and on. Ali Alnaz, another. Pat Cuccorallo another, he was almost always smart enough to hire good people though, in fact Hector Magana ran his shed for years.

The vets keep these people's horses in the game, but that's another fun subject.


I am not going to get into a pissing match with you. I agree Chicago is lean on training talent.

Pat's man main, when he trained for Lothenbach stables, before he went on his own was Hector Magana if I recall. Also, I think he trained about a week for F.C. one of the times before F.C. and Catman kissed and made-up.

Yes, I remember all those people you mentioned.

BTW what do you think I was doing up at 4:35 a.m. everyday, twiddling my thumbs. All I am saying your opinion is flawed about a specific person, based on my personal knowledge of that person. As I said before I can't speak about the early part of his career.

Regarding the vets it applies to all trainers now.

[Bruddah]

You had to walk through that mini-museum with the life size horse under tack to get to that room. Remember that?

You're bringing back the details in those fun memories if Chicago. I had my 30th birthday while living in Chicago. I remembr thinking, I am getting old. I was rising fast up the corporate ladder and had the World by the tail. Now the World has me by my tail. :D

According to my age then and now, I hadn't even lived half of my life. It seemed like it took forever to reach 30 and overnight to reach 63. I don't mean to belabor the point, I'm just having orgasmic flashbacks of those days. :D