Stepping Away from the Game

[davefulche]

Decided today after another awful disqualification that I am taking at least 6 mos off and maybe more. Going to stick to sports handicapping. The disqualification of the 9 horse at Fairplex is an absolute joke. The jockey of the 6 stop riding his horse and had a mile wide hole at the rail. He had tons of room and didnt want to ride close to the rail. He stops his riding action and costs his horse second. That was such an obvious attempt to draw a take down like drawing a foul in soccer or basketball. Don't know what anyone else thinks.... This game will die if it doesn't start making things like stewards decisions monitored. I am veteran of this game for over 10 years and I am in my late twenties....I am what the sport keeps saying they are tryin to attract. That aint going to happen when the horse thats lengths the best is placed third...and a horse who had no rights even getting second gets the win.

[andymays]

Decided today after another awful disqualification that I am taking at least 6 mos off and maybe more. Going to stick to sports handicapping. The disqualification of the 9 horse at Fairplex is an absolute joke. The jockey of the 6 stop riding his horse and had a mile wide hole at the rail. He had tons of room and didnt want to ride close to the rail. He stops his riding action and costs his horse second. That was such an obvious attempt to draw a take down like drawing a foul in soccer or basketball. Don't know what anyone else thinks.... This game will die if it doesn't start making things like stewards decisions monitored. I am veteran of this game for over 10 years and I am in my late twenties....I am what the sport keeps saying they are tryin to attract. That aint going to happen when the horse thats lengths the best is placed third...and a horse who had no rights even getting second gets the win.


Follow your instincts and do what you need to do. If you come back you will come back fresh. I'm not too far behind you. I wish I had followed my instincts more often. Take Derby day. My future book bet and probable favorite gets scratched that morning and I know I'm supposed to shut off the TV and go away or go back to bed. Did I do it? Nope! You know how the rest of the day went!:bang:

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I'm not being sarcastic here but I say the over under on the length between now and your next horse racing bet should be set at around 3 weeks, if you are anyone like me or most people I know.

As for DQ's. I've come to the conclusion that over the long run, 50% will go in your favor, and 50% will not. As for the method in which DQ's are determined, I say the stewards would get the results when it come to accuracy by flipping a coin.

Personally I think that if a DQ can't be determined within 2 minutes of watching the tapes, the results should stand.

[SecretSquirrel]

There is nothing wrong with taking a little break. I watched my first race with my Grandfather back in the 1960's. Growing up in Florida I got to see some of the greatest horses in the 1970's and 1980's and I too have been frustrated at times with the sport. However, many years ago I learned to take the money and betting out of the equation and enjoy the sport first. I keep score just like everyone else by checking to see if I am leaving with more than I came with but I do it in various ways to keep it interesting. Betting pick 3's and pick 4's are an easier way to enjoy the game. Maybe your focus needs to be more about the people your with and the sport itself and little less about trying to win money. Just a thought. Hope you come back soon !

[InsideThePylons-MW]

As for DQ's. I've come to the conclusion that over the long run, 50% will go in your favor, and 50% will not.

I completely disagree with this statement.

If a winning bettor is betting on his projected best/fastest horse, more inquiries will go against you.

In QH races, it's totally false.

In harness races it is also false because it's a speed/position based wagering/handicapping proposition.

In TB's it is less than the others but still false.

Also winning bettors are always looking for value and they are obviously betting against the overbet jockeys....an example would be Russell Baze...if you are always betting against him, more inquiries will go against you as he has much more margin of error with the stewards than others.

I get taken down much more than I get put up. Quantity wise and monetarily wise.

[picojim]

agree...that was one of the worst DQs i ever seen

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I completely disagree with this statement.

If a winning bettor is betting on his projected best/fastest horse, more inquiries will go against you.

In QH races, it's totally false.

In harness races it is also false because it's a speed/position based wagering/handicapping proposition.

In TB's it is less than the others but still false.

Also winning bettors are always looking for value and they are obviously betting against the overbet jockeys....an example would be Russell Baze...if you are always betting against him, more inquiries will go against you as he has much more margin of error with the stewards than others.

I get taken down much more than I get put up. Quantity wise and monetarily wise.
It is true that lower priced horses generally finish ahead of higher priced horses and therefore they are more likely to be DQed than higher priced horses.

Some lower priced horses may get impeded and not run their race too, but the first scenario is most likely.

DQs aren't just for win as you know.

So, I'll agree that since lower priced horses are more likely to get thrown out because they finish ahead of higher priced horses all things being equal, every player probably loses more DQs than win them.

However, because the track gives out the same amount of money no matter what the order of finish is, the amount of money that it costs a bettor on average over the long term is probably the same as they made because of DQs once they've lived through 20 years or more of DQs.

[rokitman]

Decided today after another awful disqualification that I am taking at least 6 mos off and maybe more. Going to stick to sports handicapping. The disqualification of the 9 horse at Fairplex is an absolute joke. The jockey of the 6 stop riding his horse and had a mile wide hole at the rail. He had tons of room and didnt want to ride close to the rail. He stops his riding action and costs his horse second. That was such an obvious attempt to draw a take down like drawing a foul in soccer or basketball. Don't know what anyone else thinks.... This game will die if it doesn't start making things like stewards decisions monitored. I am veteran of this game for over 10 years and I am in my late twenties....I am what the sport keeps saying they are tryin to attract. That aint going to happen when the horse thats lengths the best is placed third...and a horse who had no rights even getting second gets the win.
That was an absurd DQ. Didn't play the race but saw it. If the jockey of the horse that threw has head around, and bore out into the winner, would have stopped looking over his friggin' shoulder, and went through that big hole like a real jockey there would have been no inquiry. I don't blame you for being pissed. They might as well have three chimps deciding these things.

[fmolf]

It has been my contention that the stewards in horseracing are nothing more than a good ole boy network.You cannot have ex jockeys trainers and owners making decisions on outcomes of races!there is just too much baggage after years of fighting in the trenches to make fair arbitrary decisions.I think stewards should be rotated from track to track on a yearly basis so as to not put down any ties to the owners and trainers.

[JimHunter]

Decided today after another awful disqualification that I am taking at least 6 mos off and maybe more. Going to stick to sports handicapping. The disqualification of the 9 horse at Fairplex is an absolute joke. The jockey of the 6 stop riding his horse and had a mile wide hole at the rail. He had tons of room and didnt want to ride close to the rail. He stops his riding action and costs his horse second. That was such an obvious attempt to draw a take down like drawing a foul in soccer or basketball. Don't know what anyone else thinks.... This game will die if it doesn't start making things like stewards decisions monitored. I am veteran of this game for over 10 years and I am in my late twenties....I am what the sport keeps saying they are tryin to attract. That aint going to happen when the horse thats lengths the best is placed third...and a horse who had no rights even getting second gets the win.

I agree. That DQ was garbage. There have been about 100 times I had worse fouls that would have helped me only to have the blind stewards rule no change. If I was taken down, I'd file an appeal to get the purse reversed.

[andymays]

Send the CHRB an email. If they get enough they will put it on their review list. Poor Mike Marten already got about 500 emails today so what's another 20!

[Imriledup]

I know that is a terrible beat for you, but personally i knew instantly they would make a change.

I know your point was that the guy was grandstanding and whatnut, but the fact remains that your horse didn't maintain a straight line, he did come in a few inches and caused that rider to alter course. I agree that he was terrified and took up the horse instead of keeping his head down, but this is fairplex and guys want to be able to walk away under their own power, so they are going to be much more cautious when they feel a horse is racing erratically next to them.

[JimHunter]

While I do not agree with the DQ, the jock on the unofficial winner has got to be more cognizant of what is going on. Had he just hit the horse with the left whip 2-3 times it would have showed the stewards some ambition to stay in the 2-3 path instead of slightly drifting into the 1 hole.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I don't think you should take a break.

I took a 6 week hiatus because I was traveling/working and it ruined my decisionmaking literally,just like that.

I've been in a slump the last 4 weekends to the tune of a 28% loss,but most of it is due to really dumb crap.Rusty linemaking,underbetting,inability to split contenders in key situations,hell even trying to cook brunch between races.I have to clean up my game now that I am at home betting.

But mostly it's from lack of repitition.It's like being a hitter in baseball.Don't get your reps and swings in,and then make the adjustments,you will fail.Repition IMO is one of the biggest keys to success at this game.It becomes second nature.The minor mistakes that can become Achille's heels disappear.

I'm semi feel good about myself that I can keep myself to a loss of under 30%,which is my norm for years in a slump.But I'd rather be winning than getting in my own way.

[Imriledup]

Decided today after another awful disqualification that I am taking at least 6 mos off and maybe more. Going to stick to sports handicapping. The disqualification of the 9 horse at Fairplex is an absolute joke. The jockey of the 6 stop riding his horse and had a mile wide hole at the rail. He had tons of room and didnt want to ride close to the rail. He stops his riding action and costs his horse second. That was such an obvious attempt to draw a take down like drawing a foul in soccer or basketball. Don't know what anyone else thinks.... This game will die if it doesn't start making things like stewards decisions monitored. I am veteran of this game for over 10 years and I am in my late twenties....I am what the sport keeps saying they are tryin to attract. That aint going to happen when the horse thats lengths the best is placed third...and a horse who had no rights even getting second gets the win.

Being in this game requires an iron constitution. You need icewater in your veins, all the time. If you are willing to toss in the towel at the first sign of adversity, what's to say that you won't just keep doing the towel toss the next time something happens like this?

Its a rough game, shake it off and start working on tomorrow's card. You picked the right horse, that's all you can do, the rest is out of your hands.

[WinterTriangle]

You picked the right horse, that's all you can do, the rest is out of your hands.

No truer words spoken.

I feel pretty good when I at least know I picked right. That means the fault is not with me. :) The rest, I can't control

[Imriledup]

No truer words spoken.

I feel pretty good when I at least know I picked right. That means the fault is not with me. :) The rest, I can't control

Thanks.

I used to get like the OP, i would get very angry at the judges, or jockeys or blame someone else for the reason my ticket did not cash and over the years, i've gotten better at dealing with the emotion of tough losses. This is one of the most important things to have in your arsenal, and that's the ability to move on no matter what happens. The ability to maintain an 'even mental keel' in the face of tremendous emotional highs and lows.

When you walk into that racetrack (or your living room to bet off your puter) there's no sign on the door that says "we guarantee that your life won't be altered in any way, good or bad, while you are inside this facility"

When you walk into that racetrack, you need to say to yourself "something can happen here today that can scar me forever and there's nothing i can do about it and i'm assuming all risks by walking thru that door, i understand what i'm getting myself into"

[Java Gold@TFT]

I admit that I couldn't find the stat so does anyone have any stat that indicates how many races (percentage wise) have horses been DQ'd before the race becomes official? (not including drug dq's) I'm guessing the number is pretty tiny no matter whether it is WPS. Just a rough guess. I bet through Twin Spires and have 28 TB tracks available today. That's maybe roughly 250 races to choose from. I don't have time to go through every chart every day but I would be surprised if there were more than 5 or 7 winners dq'd during the day. Now, factor in that the VAST majority will be absloutley legitimate dq's. Some math extrapolation - 250 races/day * 30 days per month * .02 dq's per race * 5% bad dq's = about 14 bad dq's per month. No one here is betting every one of those races so if you bet races selectively the chances of a bad dq are miniscule and even then it's personal opinion based on who you bet. The bad dq's get brought up all of the time but it seems that the gripe comes up once or twice a month. If you want to quit the game after one bad beat then go ahead. if you want to quit the game after one subjective bad DQ then go ahead.

If anyone who keeps detailed records of their betting (I know you are out there) can show a breakdown of wins and losses by DQ it would be interesting. Also how many you felt were bad DQ's vs. legititimate DQ's. If you bet Vineyard Haven in the King's Bishop would you quit the game because in your opinion you thought he would have won anyway even though it was an obvious foul?

All I'm saying is - pick your fights wisely. Also DQ's are ruled on differently everywhere. Look at Da Re Mi who did nothing to affect the finish of the race but got DQ'd for a supposed infraction against a orse that wouldn't hit the board. Here some stewards are directed to look at the foul regardless of the outcome and in other states they have the latitude to decide if the foul influenced the order of finish.

[twindouble]

I don't see where stats on dq's will benefit any player. Sure Stewardship can be improved and playing loose with the rules is very negative on public opinion. I would hope to think most track operators are aware of that, especially nowadays knowing players can review the dq as well as the stewards can. Hey, if they don't keep us happy that's their own undoing.


I do agree carrying that kind of baggage into the next days card is an immature mind set. Over the years (49) I've seen many good handicappers go by the wayside because they didn't know how to gamble. That don't mean good gamblers have "ice water in their vain's". They do live in a zone that's a more complex than that, meaning they are more sensitive about many things others aren't aware of, one being common sense.

Personally, I have no idea were I stand when it comes to dq's and I don't care to know. I do remember one dq that give me the whole pool in the tri and other good payoffs I got as a result of the normal chaos in racing. On the other hand one day a friend of mine asked me how I did for the day and I said "I did one hell of job handicapping but I lost."

[rwwupl]

I completely disagree with this statement.

If a winning bettor is betting on his projected best/fastest horse, more inquiries will go against you.

In QH races, it's totally false.

In harness races it is also false because it's a speed/position based wagering/handicapping proposition.

In TB's it is less than the others but still false.

Also winning bettors are always looking for value and they are obviously betting against the overbet jockeys....an example would be Russell Baze...if you are always betting against him, more inquiries will go against you as he has much more margin of error with the stewards than others.

I get taken down much more than I get put up. Quantity wise and monetarily wise.


Thats my experience too, and it is not even close. :ThmbUp:

[andymays]

Thats my experience too, and it is not even close. :ThmbUp:


Me three! :ThmbUp:

[Light]

A winning player expects his share of losses and is not dettered by the outcome of one race.

[BlueShoe]

In a long lifetime of racetracking my ratio of horses taken down vs those moved up is at least 2-1,and perhaps as high as 3-1.Those tough dq's really suck the wind out of your sails.For myself,the latest came Wednesday in race 4 at Presque Isle when my 9-1 wire to wire winner was taken down when the eventual official winner lugged into him in the stretch.Ouch,my experience with PI officials is limited,but first impression is not favorable.Have always had the opinion that horseplayers are like racehorses in that neither can stay sharp all year long,and that breaks and freshening is good for man and beast.For myself,when going stale,have found that staying away and forgeting about the track for a period of from two to as long as six or eight weeks brings me back sharp and eager to resume the game.