PDA

View Full Version : Any representation by HANA here?


CBedo
09-23-2009, 07:30 PM
Just got this blog post form Alex Waldrop about the NTRA’s Annual Meeting and Marketing Summit.

http://www.ntra.com/blog.aspx?blogId=15&year=2009&month=9&day=23

Will there be any HANA presence at this event?

DeanT
09-23-2009, 07:59 PM
Hey Chris,

I dont think so. All we have planned right now for representation is the TRA simulcast summit on the 13th of October, a harness summit and hopefully the AZ symposium. Theresia was on the Breeders Cup committee with a few other members this past month or so. Maybe she is going to this NTRA thing; the chick gets around! Oh, and I mean that in the nicest way possible :)

D

andymays
09-23-2009, 08:01 PM
Hey Chris,

I dont think so. All we have planned right now for representation is the TRA simulcast summit on the 13th of October, a harness summit and hopefully the AZ symposium. Theresia was on the Breeders Cup committee with a few other members this past month or so. Maybe she is going to this NTRA thing; the chick gets around! Oh, and I mean that in the nicest way possible :)

D


Boy, If I said something like that? ;)

miesque
09-24-2009, 09:37 AM
Hey Chris,

I dont think so. All we have planned right now for representation is the TRA simulcast summit on the 13th of October, a harness summit and hopefully the AZ symposium. Theresia was on the Breeders Cup committee with a few other members this past month or so. Maybe she is going to this NTRA thing; the chick gets around! Oh, and I mean that in the nicest way possible :)

D

Well I guess I do have an above average level of racetrack travel throughout the year across the country, but I it does have the benefit of giving me a pretty broad prospective on things. Back in July after back to back track visits of Hollywood Gold Cup followed by Virginia Derby the next weekend a friend joked that he would not be the least surprised to flip on the TV at night and see me randomly in the crowd during the Australian racing coverage.

Unfortunately next week I am heading to New York for Jockey Club Gold Cup Day and the following weekend will be at Keeneland for Friday through Sunday and this year I will be at Santa Anita/Breeders Cup for a little over a week so I can't fit anything else in my schedule. I tried to also fit in the Canadian International but that was too much since believe it or not I do actually have a job. I tried to potentially squeeze the TRA Simulcast Summit in with a a hedge fund meeting in Boston, but even I was unable to pull that one off. :D

CBedo
09-24-2009, 02:49 PM
Well I guess I do have an above average level of racetrack travel throughout the year across the country, but I it does have the benefit of giving me a pretty broad prospective on things. Back in July after back to back track visits of Hollywood Gold Cup followed by Virginia Derby the next weekend a friend joked that he would not be the least surprised to flip on the TV at night and see me randomly in the crowd during the Australian racing coverage.

Unfortunately next week I am heading to New York for Jockey Club Gold Cup Day and the following weekend will be at Keeneland for Friday through Sunday and this year I will be at Santa Anita/Breeders Cup for a little over a week so I can't fit anything else in my schedule. I tried to also fit in the Canadian International but that was too much since believe it or not I do actually have a job. I tried to potentially squeeze the TRA Simulcast Summit in with a a hedge fund meeting in Boston, but even I was unable to pull that one off. :DLast time I was at a hedge fund meeting in Boston, I got snowed in for two days at the Marriott Copley....

I don't know anything about this "marketing summit," but if HANA would like to have a player there to listen, and can get me credentialed so I can sit in the presentations (if that's the format), I'd gladly go, sit in, take notes, and report back. I was thinking of going to Vegas in the next few weeks any way.

CBedo
09-24-2009, 06:51 PM
Racing seems to still not realize who their cusotmers really are. It makes no sense to not involve players in a "marketing summit."

I encourage all of you to comment at the ntra blog, email, tweet, or comment on their Facebook page (where they also have the blog link) about the lack of player involvement in trying to grow (or stop the decline) this sport.

DeanT
09-29-2009, 01:40 PM
Vic Zast must have read this thread because he mentioned HANA in his piece. We have an opinion piece up on the Summit and marketing in general. The thesis is that the fundamental issues of racing should be addressed (ie takeout, the tote and other problems) before we spend money at marketing in earnest.

Monday, September 28, 2009

Marketing Summit - You Can Beat a Race But You Can't Beat the Races (http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2009/09/marketing-summit-you-can-beat-race-but.html)

This week the NTRA Marketing Summit is being held in Las Vegas. This event is for insiders to discuss how to market horse racing. A noble pursuit, yes, but will it make a difference?

Vic Zast opines that no, it won't. (http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/Zasts-TrackWords/2009-09-28the-day-of-atonement-and-tomorrow/) I tend to think he has a point, solely for this statement, "the sport shouldn’t spend one penny more in trying to bring people back until it develops features and benefits that some stranger wants."

To gamblers, racings tag-line is "you can beat a race, but you can't beat the races." Hmmm, so that seems to tell them, "please come to the track, spend a pile of money, and expect to lose with vicious takeouts." Marketing ice to an eskimo might be easier, considering that the people who we are trying to get to look at us can play a football game at a cheap rake, and grind some scratch, among other things.

To the general public on the other hand, our message seems to be, "come to the track, pay to get in, pay for a past performance line that you probably won't understand, sit outside and watch horses you don't know, with people you don't know, wait a half hour between races, and maybe enjoy a $3 coffee and $4 hot dog while you wait. Oh, and if you don't want to wait around, head into the simulcast area where there is 47 events going off at the same time, exactly like the one you are watching here."

Wow, sign me up.

One of the hardest things to market is a game or product with a negative stigma attached. People have been to the races, millions upon millions of them. People have bet the races, millions upon millions of them. It is not like we are springing something new on them. They came, they saw, they did not like it; and after knowing what it is about, they came back in smaller and smaller numbers.

Completely overhauling a business that has preconceived notions attached can be done, but it is extremely rare. Those who have done it have done so with tremendous vision, and a little serendipity. A few decades ago Honda made only motorbikes - and damn good ones. Thinking they could use their good name and engineering prowess to expand, they decided to move into carmaking. It was a complete dud. The potential customers in Japan had their preconceived notion that Honda made bikes, not cars, and they wanted nothing to do with them. The stigma attached to the Honda brand overcame everything else. Moving the market overseas to America was the only way this new vision could become a success and that they did. The US market was not married to the notion that Honda could not make a car because they make bikes. They had the ingrained notion that Japanese technology made good stuff and they wanted Honda cars because of that. The rest is history.

Vic writes, "No amount of advertising, sales promotion or public relations will convince disinterested people to like horse racing" and he does make a strong point. Sure they might come for big days, or for a festival, or so on. In fact, I agree that racing should be doing quite a bit more for big days and admission based events (as opined here (http://www.r2collective.com/)). But these folks rarely become long-term fans. I think it is because we have fundamental problems in racing and until we fix those problems, a little bit of flash, a little make-up and a new shirt and tie won't do much good at all. Customers are smart and informed and hoodwinking them does more harm than good.

As for bettors of other sports, well what more evidence do we need than Betfair? Oodles of folks are playing betfair for racing because they are offering something that they want - a good interface, excellent customer service, fun, excitement, and low takeout. Betfair took the racing product, flipped it over, threw it around, and changed it. Old, boring, slow, impossible to win at? No way, sister; not there. It took a complete revamping of the brand to get people interested in racing again, and it worked.

Marketing writer Seth Godin in his book "Free Prize Inside" (http://www.sethgodin.com/freeprize/), sums it up for us nicely.

"Your growth will come instead from the dissatisfied and unsatisfied. The dissatisfied know they want a solution, but are not happy with the solution they’ve got. The minute they find it, they’ll buy it. Yahoo’s best customers were not google’s first users. Nope. The happy Yahoo customers were not looking for a replacement. Google focused on dissatisfied web surfers - people who were online but were not blown away by what they had been using (and who wanted to be blown away).

The unsatisfied are the folks who do not even realize they have a problem that needs solving. That is why focus groups are often so useless. The people you really need to hear from are the great unwashed, the people who are not even looking at you. That is where you will find the customers you need when your current line becomes obsolete.

The problem is that management really likes those satisfied customers. The first question they’ll ask about any innovation is “Will our satisfied customers like it?” Of course, this is a silly question, because satisfied customers already like what you’ve got. The question you ought to ask first is, “Will people dissatisfied with what they are doing now embrace this, and, even better, will they tell the large number of unsatisfied people to go get it right away?”

I think the lesson we should all learn is that without a solid product to market, we might as well not market anything at all. We must work on fundamentally changing racing to make it an attractive 21st century gambling game, or a superior entertainment destination, before we throw money at it. The market - the dissatisfied, unsatisfied, or even the satisfied - sees right through anything else.

rwwupl
09-29-2009, 02:11 PM
I agree! :ThmbUp:

Imriledup
09-29-2009, 09:40 PM
Great stuff Dean.


The biggest problem racing has is that the customers have to subsidize the business financially to keep it going.

In racing, horseplayers have to pay the owners, trainers and riders. NFL bettors don't pay the salaries of the Players, but in racing, you have to pay the trainers and owners to put on the show. That's the biggest problem.

Indulto
10-02-2009, 01:05 PM
http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/ntra-alex-waldrop-straight-up/archive/2009/10/01/is-the-price-right.aspx
Is the Price Right?
By Alex Waldrop 01 Oct 2009… We have to recommit ourselves first and foremost to selling our game as a unique, challenging, exciting opportunity to wager on live horse racing. To that end, our primary customers are and must always be horseplayers.

... Full competitive fields are what horseplayers want, so marketers working in concert with their respective racing departments must sell great racing opportunities to owners and trainers just like they must sell great racing and wagering opportunities to horseplayers. The tracks with full, competitive fields will attract the bettors.

...At what price are horseplayers willing to buy what we are selling? Said another way, do some tracks need to consider a reduction in takeout? From a pure economics perspective, the answer is clearly "yes."

... If you listen at all to horseplayers, they are saying over and over again to this industry -- "Your price is too high for the product you are offering." "We love horse racing but at your prices, we are forced to seek other forms of gambling which may not be as exciting but are more profitable for us." "Reduce the takeout and we will wager more money and more often." Why else would rebaters be able to lure our biggest bettors away from the live track? Tracks have tested these waters before with mixed results but it's time to plunge back into the process and find the optimal takeout rate for all parties- tracks, horsemen and players.

... Every other industry fighting to survive in this economy is taking a hard look at its retail pricing structure and it is high time horse racing considered doing the same.

Such a change will take creativity and experimentation by tracks and horsemen, and some distributors may object because it may eat into their margins. Nonetheless, now is the time to once and for all prove (or disprove) the overwhelming majority of academic research concerning takeout which says, in essence, less is more. Now is the time to determine whether in fact, less takeout actually means more wagering and ultimately more revenue for tracks, horsemen and horseplayers. Said another way, let's focus on growing the economic pie instead of always arguing among the participants about how we will carve up a shrinking economic pie. …

jonnielu
10-02-2009, 01:22 PM
The unsatisfied are the folks who do not even realize they have a problem that needs solving. That is why focus groups are often so useless. The people you really need to hear from are the great unwashed, the people who are not even looking at you. That is where you will find the customers you need when your current line becomes obsolete.



The first thing for racing to get is that the information product is virtually obsolete, and a transition needs to be developed yesterday.

The youngers simply refuse to play this game with grandpa's information model. There is no reason for them to yield because there are 20 other games for them to play.

jdl

DeanT
10-02-2009, 01:25 PM
http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/ntra-alex-waldrop-straight-up/archive/2009/10/01/is-the-price-right.aspx
Is the Price Right?
By Alex Waldrop 01 Oct 2009[/font]

OK, I am floored. Absolutely floored.

They could have taken that piece off of a HANA/Pricci/Cary/Beyer blog. Or from threads right here at Paceadvantage.

Wow.

I think horseplayers are making headway folks.

DeanT
10-02-2009, 01:42 PM
The youngers simply refuse to play this game with grandpa's information model. There is no reason for them to yield because there are 20 other games for them to play.
jdl

Information models I agree, but also betting models imo.

The synergies to broaden the tent can and do bear fruit. This is not for everyone, and the existing customers roll their eyes at it, but when you develop new ways to bet and play, it grows the game.

JMO

http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2009/08/not-exactly-pen-and-paper-handicapping.html

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-FgbJMM155A&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-FgbJMM155A&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Charli125
10-02-2009, 02:29 PM
OK, I am floored. Absolutely floored.

They could have taken that piece off of a HANA/Pricci/Cary/Beyer blog. Or from threads right here at Paceadvantage.

Wow.

I think horseplayers are making headway folks.

I agree. I had to check several times to make sure it wasn't someone's idea of a joke. He took the words right out of my mouth.

andymays
10-02-2009, 02:58 PM
OK, I am floored. Absolutely floored.

They could have taken that piece off of a HANA/Pricci/Cary/Beyer blog. Or from threads right here at Paceadvantage.

Wow.

I think horseplayers are making headway folks.


The NTRA isn't nearly as "all that" as people think. The HANA board is much more in tune with the betting public.