Northern Dancer Call/Inquiry

[WinterTriangle]

What'd ya'll think of that?

I had played Marshside pretty heavy to win, so of course of was disappointed. I posted contest picks on a few forumss I play at...with him in the win spot in all my exotics today....

One of the reasons I picked that horse was the jock, he's a competitive rider.

And not being a poor loser, but I still don't totally agree with the final stewards decision. :confused: Marshside had a perfect trip and ran the perfect race.

I've watched it a few times, and there was no contact, and I guess I don't get WHY--- in race riding-----you can't shut down the rail so another horse can't slip in??????

to me, that is COMPETITIVE RIDING :)

[Imriledup]

If its me, i leave it up.

If your horse was trained by a Canadian based trainer and ridden by a Canadian based rider, you probably stay up.

[CBedo]

I wouldn't have disagreed with the stewards if they had gone either way. I don't think the jockey helped himself by never getting off the right handed stick. I think he was even flagging right handed at the end.

[Imriledup]

I think that this comes down to the 'bothered horse' wasn't fast enough to get into that hole when it was open.

What happened was the jock saw the clearance and started riding for that hole, only to have it closed up just when he was getting his momentum.

Holes open and close in the blink of an eye all the time in racing, and if you are not quick enough to exploit that hole like a flash of light, you shouldn't get rewarded.

If Champs was lightning quick, he would have been up that inside and would have been in a position where the 3 horse would have seen him. Since the top 2 horses could NOT see him, they lugged for that open space.

So, in reality, the Champs horse got bothered because he wasn't fast enough to get up in there when the brief moment was there for him to exploit.

[bisket]

marsh side never got a clear lead. if marsh gets a clear lead he doesn't foul the others. the horse that finshed 3rd was bothered by marsh side also, and that horse was running stride for stride alongside marsh side, and established position. i would have placed marsh side 3rd there, and moved the other two up. there was a legitimate foul there, and the stewards ruling is correct in that respect. heres the replay from drf website
http://www.drf.com/replays/savedreplays.jsp?RACE=178

[WinterTriangle]

So, in reality, the Champs horse got bothered because he wasn't fast enough to get up in there when the brief moment was there for him to exploit.

exactly how I felt. THERE WAS NO CONTACT!

Bo-rail has made a living exploiting holes at the rail! But nobody *moves aside* for him to do it in a stakes race, right? LOL


So, Champs/jock combo can't exploit a brief opening, and yet the race is given to them, and Marshside, who ran a great race THROUGHOUT...I mean, the entire race......is put to 4th by the Stewards. :bang:

[WinterTriangle]

marsh side never got a clear lead. if marsh gets a clear lead he doesn't foul the others. the horse that finshed 3rd was bothered by marsh side also, and that horse was running stride for stride alongside marsh side, and established position. i would have placed marsh side 3rd there, and moved the other two up. there was a legitimate foul there, and the stewards ruling is correct in that respect. heres the replay from drf website
http://www.drf.com/replays/savedreplays.jsp?RACE=178

I coulda lived with 3rd. Then all my tris would still be good.
But they moved him to 4th. 4th. That's what I had a problem with, not because of my wagers, but because from 1st to 4th is just too-o-o-o-o much of a slap, IMHO. Esp. based on the race he ran.

[46zilzal]

watched it with a group: ALL said, almost at once, "the winner is coming down!"

[Imriledup]

watched it with a group: ALL said, almost at once, "the winner is coming down!"

So you were hanging out with a group who all make a living betting the races?

[WinterTriangle]

watched it with a group: ALL said, almost at once, "the winner is coming down!"

But to 4th? :confused:

Marshside is off the pace the whole way, running in 2nd. Even after a mile.
At the 3/8 pole, he's still about 2 lengths behind Medjool still. When the caller called the final, Champs was in 4th, at that point, it was a photo for Just As Well and Quijano for 2nd.

So, okay, you move up Just As Well and Quijano to 1st and 2nd. And put Marshside 3rd. Jock could have moved Champs out, after all Just As Well and Quijano's jocks didn't try to thread the needle on the rail with their horses, right? They were able to run fast enough off the rail to get their positions.

Mostly I see rider error here, cost the horse who ran a great race a place on the board! I'd be pissed if I was the trainer of Marshside, the jock really screwed up this ride, and Marchfield ran a fantastic race,. way too good to finish *off the board*. I guess I just want to say I think the horse ran a fantastic race and got screwed.


Castellano's goin' on my D list, (along with Borel after his last ride on Rachel, another topic) :mad:

[TiznowfaninNY]

He looked like a drunken driver in the stretch and definitely deserved to come down, How far, I'm not sure. But he definitely compromised a minimum of 2 horses, maybe 3.

[CBedo]

But to 4th? :confused:

Marshside is off the pace the whole way, running in 2nd. Even after a mile.
At the 3/8 pole, he's still about 2 lengths behind Medjool still. When the caller called the final, Champs was in 4th, at that point, it was a photo for Just As Well and Quijano for 2nd.

So, okay, you move up Just As Well and Quijano to 1st and 2nd. And put Marshside 3rd. Jock could have moved Champs out, after all Just As Well and Quijano's jocks didn't try to thread the needle on the rail with their horses, right? They were able to run fast enough off the rail to get their positions.

Mostly I see rider error here, cost the horse who ran a great race a place on the board! I'd be pissed if I was the trainer of Marshside, the jock really screwed up this ride, and Marchfield ran a fantastic race,. way too good to finish *off the board*. I guess I just want to say I think the horse ran a fantastic race and got screwed.


Castellano's goin' on my D list, (along with Borel after his last ride on Rachel, another topic) :mad:I'm pretty sure that when they make the dq, they have to put him behind the horse he interfered with, so he has to go at least to fourth.

[WinterTriangle]

I'm pretty sure that when they make the dq, they have to put him behind the horse he interfered with, so he has to go at least to fourth.

Yeah, somebody gave me a heads up on that.

I guess I'm p'od at the rider, not stewards, as you say, they placed the DQ standardly.

One of the reasons I liked Marshside is sire wins on this surface and distance. About 44% ITM for Gone West. I thought this was a really good race for him. Next was Just As Well, and Solitaire (ap indy) who was about 30% ITM, but I didn't think Solitaire could hit the board with these.

So, I'm not unhappy that Just As Well won. :)

[CBedo]

I know moral victories often aren't worth much, but good call on the race anyway. Even the trainer was worried about the surface and somewhat surprised about his good performance.

Unfortunately, possibly another example of a jockey not doing us any favors.

[bisket]

I coulda lived with 3rd. Then all my tris would still be good.
But they moved him to 4th. 4th. That's what I had a problem with, not because of my wagers, but because from 1st to 4th is just too-o-o-o-o much of a slap, IMHO. Esp. based on the race he ran.
gomez was on the horse on the rail. he can piss a b^%$# with the best of them. alot of times it depends on what jock is on the offending horse. i'd say the fact that gomez was on that one is part of the reason you went to 4th instead of 3rd. the fact of the matter is that hole was moving faster than gomez's horse :ThmbDown:

[46zilzal]

So you were hanging out with a group who all make a living betting the races?
Track announcer, track handicapper, and a few from the media. People who know racing.

[cj]

Track announcer, track handicapper, and a few from the media. People who know racing.

None of those titles are as impressive as a Sovereign Award voter.

[Market Mover]

This was one of Leparoux's headier rides. He had the foresight to sense that there would be trouble along the rail, so he took back, let GoGo assume that position, and angled Just as Well out. I feel Just as Well would have won the race by a length or so had he been allowed a better trip and did not have to switch course. Leparoux rode the race to win, and the Northern Dancer is another example of a race where all jocks should be riding for best placing.


I think he made amends for his lackluster ride on Forever Together earlier in the card. Now, granted, I don't think Woodbine is Forever Together's favorite course, but the way he rode that last sixteenth just tells me he didn't see Bejarano's filly scooting up the rail. I did not see him glance that far over throughout the stretch run to sense someone else other than his closest rival charging late.

GoGo did earn his Oscar for his reaction with Champs Elysees, but let's face it: Champs was not going to win anyway. This horse has shown too many near misses to be confident in backing him for the win.

Marsh Side is as unlucky a horse as they get, but had Javier made an attempt to keep him from starting out in the 7 path in midstretch to ending up in the 2 path in deep stretch, I think the stewards would have shown some clemency...

[Space Monkey]

No dog in the fight, just watched the replay. Marsh Side started out his mid stretch run around the 5 path. Made a beeline for the rail, under constant right hand whipping, causing the 2 inside horses to take up. I don't buy the argument that the inside horse wasn't fast enough to get to the hole. You can close a hole on the rail from the 2 path or maybe even the 3, but not from out in the middle of the track. Pretty obvious even without a direct head on view. Right decision placing Marsh Side 4th, since the 4th place finisher was bothered too in the chain reaction.

[bisket]

he was in the 3 path when he went over :lol: so it wasn't a foul. it wasn't poor marsh sides fault there just happened to be another horse in the 2 path :faint:

[Space Monkey]

Oh no bisket, watch it again. he was out there in midstretch when he made his "go to the rail" run. he looked like an inside running greyhound breaking from the 8 :lol:

[Space Monkey]

there was a legitimate foul there, and the stewards ruling is correct in that respect. heres the replay from drf website

biskit, whats up?? did i miss something or did you contradict yourself? I think I might have missed your sarcasm.

[bisket]

that was sarcasm!! i still don't see why the the 4th place finsher was given 3rd, but thats my opinion.

[Space Monkey]

I worked way too hard today biskit. Not mentally sharp right now :confused: . It was a chain reaction, I thought the 4th place finisher had to take up more sharply than any other horse. True, he wasn't going to finish ahead of Marsh Side anyway, but that was a potentially very dangerous situation for all involved.
Done for the night :sleeping:

[OverlayHunter]

I didn’t wager the race in question nor have I seen it so this is meant to be generic.

My understanding is that there are at least 2 reasons that can cause a DQ and the placement of the horse determined to have been an offender is always behind any horse deemed to have been significantly affected; i.e., affected enough to warrant that the DQ be issued. And, like most if not all sports, a lot of these calls are very close judgment calls that the stewards get wrong on occasion.

The 2 reasons I’m most aware of are:
1. Horse A and/or its jockey has contact with Horse B in such a way that the stewards believe Horse B’s chances were compromised

2. Horse A impedes the forward progress of Horse B by moving into its path creating a situation where Horse B is then so close to Horse A’s rear such that it cannot safely make further forward progress without first pulling up and/or altering course. If Horse A moved into Horse B’s path when Horse B was some number of lengths back (I’m not sure how many) then it wouldn't be interfering with Horse B and wouldn't be DQ'd.

Is what I've written anything close to accurate?

[appistappis]

I guess nobody will convince the other side with their arguments but i thought he was coming down and he did......he just kept coming in and coming in.

[eastie]

For that horse to come down in a graded stakes is a joke. This isn't flag football out there. Those stewards should be forced to drink a case of Molson each.:(