Rachel done for year??

[ghostyapper]

Jackson says she's not likely to run again this year. That means no jcgc. All I can say is I'm not surprised....

[FenceBored]

Jackson says she's not likely to run again this year. That means no jcgc. All I can say is I'm not surprised....

She's run as many times this year as Ghostzapper did as a 3yo and a 4yo combined. And she's won more G1s this year than he did in his whole career. If she's not worthy enough for you, then what does that make your namesake?

[CincyHorseplayer]

I'm not surprised neither.You've been the biggest ballbuster on the planet.I didn't expect you to change now.

And if you actually watched the race it's not hard to fathom that it took it's toll on the horse.She ran an uncomfortable,balls to the wall race.Fatigue is bound to set in.

Your quest of 10 furlongs is irrelevant.

But keep on.I've already got you nominated for AOY!!:cool:

[Bochall]

I don't think she has anything to prove to anyone this year. HOY Eclipse award is wrapped up and poly ain't her thing so what else is there? A match vs Zen? Aint happening in the Clark @ CD or any promo some tracks like FG are trying. She will appear with a prep in early 2010 and then it's on to Dubai for the World Cup.

[FenceBored]

I don't think she has anything to prove to anyone this year. HOY Eclipse award is wrapped up and poly ain't her thing so what else is there? A match vs Zen? Aint happening in the Clark @ CD or any promo some tracks like FG are trying. She will appear with a prep in early 2010 and then it's on to Dubai for the World Cup.

The Dubai World Cup, now at the new Meyden racecourse will be run on Tapeta. No Rachel for them.

[Bochall]

The Dubai World Cup, now at the new Meyden racecourse will be run on Tapeta. No Rachel for them. NO!!! Say it aint so! I had forgotten that Meydan would be an "alternate" surface. Well, I guess we get her all year in 2010 also. But a win in Dubai woulda been the topper. Wonder if JJ carves out an all male year for her on 2010...Donn, Met Mile etc....

[Fingal]

Will she run again this year ? Depends on how much the Woodward really took out of her, & I wouldn't be surprised if she did get a month or so off. But the one thing that is written in concrete, is that she's only a 3 yr. old once. And as a 4 yr. old next year the weight breaks go away unless every race she runs is against males. Once these opprotunities of racing this year against her elders ( be it male or female ) & getting weight breaks are gone, they're gone for good.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Will she run again this year ? Depends on how much the Woodward really took out of her, & I wouldn't be surprised if she did get a month or so off. But the one thing that is written in concrete, is that she's only a 3 yr. old once. And as a 4 yr. old next year the weight breaks go away unless every race she runs is against males. Once these opprotunities of racing this year against her elders ( be it male or female ) & getting weight breaks are gone, they're gone for good.
I posted about weight break in the context of carry weight so far in her PP's. I ask, as an older female running in graded stakes, what kind of weight would she be required to carry against 3's females, and against males?

[11cashcall]

I dont think so.Either Bel,CD or even yes ....SA.

[lamboguy]

she ran a huge race and had it was quite a tough field. she is going to save that effort to go to the next level. maybe we see her in the donn handicap in 2010.

[ghostyapper]

The Dubai World Cup, now at the new Meyden racecourse will be run on Tapeta. No Rachel for them.

There was gonna be no rachel even if it was run at nad al sheba. But never say never, maybe jackson can get them to move it back to nad al sheba, up the purse to 8 mill and cut the distance to 9 furlongs?

[ddog]

No reason to run her now.
Give her a break.

IF you could get another season out of her , why chance that now?

Give her a break.
:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Hanover1]

I authored another thread in regards to this, and I was amazed at the amount of people who had doubts about this. It was even suggested to disregard the author of the article I quoted. Serious horsepeople? Just how long do we run her? Until you get your defeat? How about when the trainer and Jackson say "its enough". Jackson may be difficult to pin down on straight answers, but the filly will tell the barn, and I suspect she has spoken ("We will let the horse tell us".).

[ghostyapper]

She's run as many times this year as Ghostzapper did as a 3yo and a 4yo combined. And she's won more G1s this year than he did in his whole career. If she's not worthy enough for you, then what does that make your namesake?

There isn't a track/distance/pace setup/surface scenario where she would have come close to him. His worst performance in 04 was more impressive then her best this year. Do you really want to continue this silliness?

[tucker6]

There isn't a track/distance/pace setup/surface scenario where she would have come close to him. His worst performance in 04 was more impressive then her best this year. Do you really want to continue this silliness?
I like Ghostzapper, but when you only run four races, like he did in 2004, it isn't hard to run four great races. It's when you run 8 or 9 times in a year that a clunker usually shows itself. Could RA beat Ghostzapper head-to-head on their best day? Very unlikely. However, don't make 2004 out to be anything it wasn't. He had a great 4-5 month stretch which got him HOY honors.

[FenceBored]

There isn't a track/distance/pace setup/surface scenario where she would have come close to him. His worst performance in 04 was more impressive then her best this year. Do you really want to continue this silliness?

Why not? You've been doing it with Rachel for the past 4 months, which is ironically also the longest amount of time in which Ghostzapper ran consecutive races without at least a six month layoff.

[Steve R]

Will she run again this year ? Depends on how much the Woodward really took out of her, & I wouldn't be surprised if she did get a month or so off. But the one thing that is written in concrete, is that she's only a 3 yr. old once. And as a 4 yr. old next year the weight breaks go away unless every race she runs is against males. Once these opprotunities of racing this year against her elders ( be it male or female ) & getting weight breaks are gone, they're gone for good.

Those aren't "breaks". They are weight assignments based on the well-documented 150-year-old Jockey Club Scale of Weights. You can dismiss them out of hand if you like, but you would be wrong. Had Rachel Alexandra carried any more than 118 in the Woodward, she would have, in effect, been giving weight to the older males. Her 118 and their 126 are the historical weight-for-age standards for that race.

[Steve R]

There was gonna be no rachel even if it was run at nad al sheba. But never say never, maybe jackson can get them to move it back to nad al sheba, up the purse to 8 mill and cut the distance to 9 furlongs?
How does it feel to realize how little you actually understand the history and physics of Thoroughbred racing?

[ghostyapper]

Why not? You've been doing it with Rachel for the past 4 months, which is ironically also the longest amount of time in which Ghostzapper ran consecutive races without at least a six month layoff.

Nobody ever mistook ghostzapper for an iron horse. The same way no one should mistake rachel for a dominant 10 furlong horse, but unfortunately the masses are in denial. I've been saying for months they are avoiding 10 furlong races and I've been attacked by the fan club with a different excuse each time

I was assured by the president of the fan club that she would be in the gate for the jcgc.
Now the latest is the woodward was a taxing race. I guess had the woodward been a breeze the excuse would have been they should try and get kenzei a G1 in the jcgc :D

[ghostyapper]

How does it feel to realize how little you actually understand the history and physics of Thoroughbred racing?

Well when it comes to understanding the history of the sport I'm definitely in the upper percentile on these boards. Most seem to believe racing began in 1973, was on strike for 35 years, and now they are running again this year.

[tucker6]

Well when it comes to understanding the history of the sport I'm definitely in the upper percentile on these boards. Most seem to believe racing began in 1973, was on strike for 35 years, and now they are running again this year.
Actually, God created his lead stallion in 1970, so technically speaking racing began at that time. Anything before that didn't exist. The strike started in 1980 just after the Bid shut it down. But, you did get it right on when racing re-started. So, you're one for three, which in baseball would make you a trillionaire. :lol:

:rolleyes:

[FenceBored]

There isn't a track/distance/pace setup/surface scenario where she would have come close to him. His worst performance in 04 was more impressive then her best this year. Do you really want to continue this silliness?

Monmouth
Ghostzapper's Philip H. Iselin 1:47:66 on a Sloppy track
Rachel Alexandra's Haskell -- 1:47.21 on a Sloppy track

Belmont
Ghostzapper's Woodward 1:46:38 on a Fast track
Rachel A.'s Mother Goose 1:46:33 on a Fast track

Yeah, I guess there's no way she could ever compare with him at any track or distance. :lol:

[tucker6]

Monmouth
Ghostzapper's Philip H. Iselin 1:47:66 on a Sloppy track
Rachel Alexandra's Haskell -- 1:47.21 on a Sloppy track

Belmont
Ghostzapper's Woodward 1:46:38 on a Fast track
Rachel A.'s Mother Goose 1:46:33 on a Fast track

Yeah, I guess there's no way she could ever compare with him at any track or distance. :lol:
You think a Rachelyapper shows up soon?? :lol:

[ghostyapper]

Monmouth
Ghostzapper's Philip H. Iselin 1:47:66 on a Sloppy track
Rachel Alexandra's Haskell -- 1:47.21 on a Sloppy track

Belmont
Ghostzapper's Woodward 1:46:38 on a Fast track
Rachel A.'s Mother Goose 1:46:33 on a Fast track

Yeah, I guess there's no way she could ever compare with him at any track or distance. :lol:

Yes final times is a great way to compare horses that run in stakes 5 years apart. You do know there are different degree of fast tracks and sloppy tracks right?

Not to mention GZ getting taken 8 wide on the turn and continally bumped down the stretch by st. liam in the woodward.

Again stick to her being better than summer bird or macho again otherwise you're swimming upstream here.

[Hank]

RA 3yo filly....GZ older male,guys it's kinda silly,a strong case can be made that RA is the best (3yo filly) ever.The Ghost was a poor man's Fager as his 128 beyer in the Iselin attest to.Its apples and oranges.

[FenceBored]

Yes final times is a great way to compare horses that run in stakes 5 years apart. You do know there are different degree of fast tracks and sloppy tracks right?

Not to mention GZ getting taken 8 wide on the turn and continally bumped down the stretch by st. liam in the woodward.

Again stick to her being better than summer bird or macho again otherwise you're swimming upstream here.

Look, you said:

There isn't a track/distance/pace setup/surface scenario where she would have come close to him. His worst performance in 04 was more impressive then her best this year. Do you really want to continue this silliness?
I found the two cases where she's run at the same track and same distance as he did. It just so happens the track condition was broadly the same. And, it also just so happens that she had faster times than he did. Heck, I was looking to see if she had any times in the same ballpark. I certainly wasn't expecting her times to be faster.

Facts is facts, son. If his times had been the track records (which they weren't, by the way), she would have broken them, end of story. So, I'd say she could face him at 9f and he'd know he'd been in a race.

[ghostyapper]

RA 3yo filly....GZ older male,guys it's kinda silly,a strong case can be made that RA is the best (3yo filly) ever.The Ghost was a poor man's Fager as his 128 beyer in the Iselin attest to.Its apples and oranges.

Apples and oranges? What age group/sex did rachel run her last race against?

[Hank]

Apples and oranges? What age group/sex did rachel run her last race against?

Last I checked shes still a 3yo filly. I'm not sure how you interpreted my post but I was supporting your position that RA could not hang with GZ.:confused:

[ghostyapper]

Look, you said:
I found the two cases where she's run at the same track and same distance as he did. It just so happens the track condition was broadly the same. And, it also just so happens that she had faster times than he did. Heck, I was looking to see if she had any times in the same ballpark. I certainly wasn't expecting her times to be faster.

Facts is facts, son. If his times had been the track records (which they weren't, by the way), she would have broken them, end of story. So, I'd say she could face him at 9f and he'd know he'd been in a race.

I don't know how long you've been following this game but comparing times at the same distance/track/condition in 2 separate races with 2 different pace setups does not mean 1 horse can run with the other.

Had rachel run in the 2004 woodward, she would have been run into the ground by Ghostzapper and St.Liam by the far turn and probably would have been passed by bowman's band in the stretch, having nothing left.

She may have similar times at 9 furlongs but don't kid yourself for a second into thinking that she could have competed with Ghostzapper who could run 46 halfs for fun and then accelerate at the top of the stretch.

[tucker6]

She may have similar times at 9 furlongs but don't kid yourself for a second into thinking that she could have competed with Ghostzapper who could run 46 halfs for fun and then accelerate at the top of the stretch.
Don't forget the flying part. You know, like Pegasus. I once heard that he ran so fast that he faded from view. Any truth to that??

I have to tell you Ghosty, when I read your comment, I had an image of an aging man with spittle coming out of his mouth at the mere thought that anyone could mention another horse in the same sentence as your favorite son, er, I mean, horse.

In other words, get a grip on yourself. You're getting scary. And I don't mean that in a nice way.

[Imriledup]

Rachel > Ghostzapper

[ghostyapper]

Don't forget the flying part. You know, like Pegasus. I once heard that he ran so fast that he faded from view. Any truth to that??

I have to tell you Ghosty, when I read your comment, I had an image of an aging man with spittle coming out of his mouth at the mere thought that anyone could mention another horse in the same sentence as your favorite son, er, I mean, horse.

In other words, get a grip on yourself. You're getting scary. And I don't mean that in a nice way.

And here goes your typical lame, immature jokes when you have nothing useful to add to the conversation.

Every single superlative has been used to describe rachel in the last month but my post about her not being able to compete with ghostzapper is the one you break out the immature joke with. O well, can't educate em all I guess.

[tucker6]

And here goes your typical lame, immature jokes when you have nothing useful to add to the conversation.

Every single superlative has been used to describe rachel in the last month but my post about her not being able to compete with ghostzapper is the one you break out the immature joke with. O well, can't educate em all I guess.
Communication 101 faux pas: At the same time one praises ones horse, he should also extend a hearty congratulation to the other horse rather than tear the other horse down in a vain attempt to lift his horse higher.

There is no one that I know of that doesn't like Ghostzapper or rates him highly Ghosty. In fact, I put him in the top five horses in the 2000's along with RA. We know he was a speed demon. His problem was that he was kept in the barn all the time. What he lacked was a prolonged period of excellence to prove his greatness. Could he have gotten there if he had lasted longer on the track? YES, and I think he would have. Did he?? NO. Simple as that.

[ghostyapper]

Communication 101 faux pas: At the same time one praises ones horse, he should also extend a hearty congratulation to the other horse rather than tear the other horse down in a vain attempt to lift his horse higher.

There is no one that I know of that doesn't like Ghostzapper or rates him highly Ghosty. In fact, I put him in the top five horses in the 2000's along with RA. We know he was a speed demon. His problem was that he was kept in the barn all the time. What he lacked was a prolonged period of excellence to prove his greatness. Could he have gotten there if he had lasted longer on the track? YES, and I think he would have. Did he?? NO. Simple as that.

See you sound much better when you use the grown up voice http://paceadvantage.com/forum/images/smilies/47.gif

I never said he was an all time great. In fact I didn't even bring him up to begin with, it was mr bored. Go back and reread the thread before you give me a communication lesson. Fencebored's contention was that rachel could compete because their 9 furlong times were similiar, it had nothing to do with how many times GZ ran or how durable he was. After I tried showing him that final times does not mean 2 horses can compete, you came with the 4th grader joke.

After all this we are still left with a jcgc with no rachel, the original point of the thread.

[thespaah]

Jackson says she's not likely to run again this year. That means no jcgc. All I can say is I'm not surprised....I would send her home. What else is there? She's not going to run on a synthetic surface. Yeah it would be nice to see her up vs Zenyatta in the Beldame at Belmont.
So let's say we lean on that one. Then yep, I would definitely send her home.

[CincyHorseplayer]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/52476/countdown-to-the-cup-rachel-rocks-the-spa?source=rss

[FenceBored]

Last I checked shes still a 3yo filly. I'm not sure how you interpreted my post but I was supporting your position that RA could not hang with GZ.:confused:

I think you set him off with the "poor man's Fager" thing.

[KingChas]

Do you really want to continue this silliness?

I'm still trying to figure you out Ghost.
Do you dislike Jackson,Assmussen,Rachel or all the above?
Then again maybe you just dislike females in general.
:confused:

[lamboguy]

I'm still trying to figure you out Ghost.
Do you dislike Jackson,Assmussen,Rachel or all the above?
Then again maybe you just dislike females in general.
:confused:this sport is a very egotistical, emotional, and passionate sport all in the same breadth. sometimes we get carried away with our thoughts. this sport is comprised of people like gostyapper. its full of hopes and dreams. my mother always told me that horseracing brings alot of hope.

if ghostyapper doesn't want to recognise the accomplishments of this thing of beauty, it will remain his perogative. RACHEL has done things that none of us could possibly fathom, but we must understand that some people are blinded by the past. i think ghostyapper falls in that category.

[ghostyapper]

I'm still trying to figure you out Ghost.
Do you dislike Jackson,Assmussen,Rachel or all the above?
Then again maybe you just dislike females in general.
:confused:

I dislike the nearsighted fans who are always so quick to give a horse an historic place prematurely. The reaction to her woodward performance (like most of her performances this year) on this board has been WAY over the top.

We've heard "best performance ever"
"rivals seattle slew in the jcgc"
"most competitive race ever"
Somebody even questioned secretariats belmont performance to try and prove rachel's woodward was better. You can't make this stuff up.

[KingChas]

I dislike the nearsighted fans who are always so quick to give a horse an historic place prematurely.

Thanks for the reply Ghost.
I don't believe in comparing horses in the past to todays.
Let the legends R.I.P.. ;)

[Grits]

I dislike the nearsighted fans who are always so quick to give a horse an historic place prematurely. The reaction to her woodward performance (like most of her performances this year) on this board has been WAY over the top.

We've heard "best performance ever"
"rivals seattle slew in the jcgc"
"most competitive race ever"
Somebody even questioned secretariats belmont performance to try and prove rachel's woodward was better. You can't make this stuff up.

No, one can't make this stuff up; but one can understand these quotes as excitement, as recognition. The joy of being able to see something so rare, something so special step onto a racetrack.

Something else one cannot make up--the level of obstinance which you've shown in arguing with everyone who has commented on, and been in awe of, this filly.

Indicating nearsightedness on the part of those who've commented here, or in the press on her accomplishments is silly.

Can you arrange an appointment with your opthamologist? Suffering from myopia can be troublesome, even dibilitating.

I have hope for you, as this, and arguing with sign posts, can be corrected. <g>

[FenceBored]

I don't know how long you've been following this game but comparing times at the same distance/track/condition in 2 separate races with 2 different pace setups does not mean 1 horse can run with the other.


Tell me, how not? Do we suddenly rely on the Beyers that you're busy dissing in another thread?

Let's look at the fractional times, shall we?

GZ MP 22.84 45.92 1:09.77 1:35.20 1:47.66
RA MP 22.99 46.43 1:09.92 1:34.29 1:47.21

GZ BEL 23.66 45.70 1:08.75 1:33.35 1:46.38
RA BEL 22.57 44.66 1:08.86 1:33.60 1:46.33

Not seeing the major difference in pace which tells me not only will horse B not beat horse A, but that horse B is unfit to carry horse A's saddle cloth.

Looks to me like Rachel would have sat back a few lengths off Ghostzapper and Saint Liam through the early stages, like she did with Flashing and Malibu Prayer. Then she would have squirted by them on the rail for the win, by a head. You got your imaginary race, I got mine.

[ghostyapper]

Looks to me like Rachel would have sat back a few lengths off Ghostzapper and Saint Liam through the early stages, like she did with Flashing and Malibu Prayer. Then she would have squirted by them on the rail for the win, by a head. You got your imaginary race, I got mine.

Because Rachel sat a few lengths off 2 fillies does not mean should would be able to sit off GZ and St. Liam. Can you tell me how far she's sat off the pace in her starts against males? There is this thing known as class handicapping that you obviously don't subscribe to or are aware of.

This is a great tag team the rachel fans have. One keeps harping on comparing rachel and gz, the other accuses me of being obsessed when I am responding to the first poster.

Nice work.

[ghostyapper]

Can you arrange an appointment with your opthamologist? Suffering from myopia can be troublesome, even dibilitating.

I have hope for you, as this, and arguing with sign posts, can be corrected. <g>

I received similar scorn for not referring to Big Brown as an all time great last year. I was the one who had no appreciation for greatness even when it was right in front of my own eyes. Yea I really came out looking bad on that one. :lol:

[Hank]

I think you set him off with the "poor man's Fager" thing.

Thats a huge complement,I think he just read to quickly.

[rastajenk]

I dislike the nearsighted fans who are always so quick to give a horse an historic place prematurely. Yeah, we wouldn't want anybody to actually, you know, enjoy this moment in racing time, would we?

It's like politics...once one gets as invested in a cause as you are, there's no turning back, ever. And there's certainly no letting the other side enjoy the benefits of its position, either.

Quit being the kid who's pouting because the birthday party he's at is for some other kid. :D

[FenceBored]

Because Rachel sat a few lengths off 2 fillies does not mean should would be able to sit off GZ and St. Liam. Can you tell me how far she's sat off the pace in her starts against males? There is this thing known as class handicapping that you obviously don't subscribe to or are aware of.

This is a great tag team the rachel fans have. One keeps harping on comparing rachel and gz, the other accuses me of being obsessed when I am responding to the first poster.

Nice work.

The Mother Goose is the only start this year (against fillies or colts) where she was more than 1 1/2 off the pace. It's called riding the race as it plays out, but I guess you don't subscribe to that, or aren't aware of it.

[depalma113]

Nobody ever mistook ghostzapper for an iron horse. The same way no one should mistake rachel for a dominant 10 furlong horse, but unfortunately the masses are in denial. I've been saying for months they are avoiding 10 furlong races and I've been attacked by the fan club with a different excuse each time

I was assured by the president of the fan club that she would be in the gate for the jcgc.
Now the latest is the woodward was a taxing race. I guess had the woodward been a breeze the excuse would have been they should try and get kenzei a G1 in the jcgc :D

She should be in the JCGC, Jackson is making a serious mistake not racing her there. There is nothing pointing to the race that can beat her. Just as there was nothing in the Woodward that was good enough to beat her. It took an entire field just to make it a race.

Until you change your handle, please don't make comments about fan clubs.

[joanied]

I like Ghostzapper, but when you only run four races, like he did in 2004, it isn't hard to run four great races. It's when you run 8 or 9 times in a year that a clunker usually shows itself. Could RA beat Ghostzapper head-to-head on their best day? Very unlikely. However, don't make 2004 out to be anything it wasn't. He had a great 4-5 month stretch which got him HOY honors.

:faint: tucker6...good reply:ThmbUp:

[joanied]

Yes final times is a great way to compare horses that run in stakes 5 years apart. You do know there are different degree of fast tracks and sloppy tracks right?

Not to mention GZ getting taken 8 wide on the turn and continally bumped down the stretch by st. liam in the woodward.

Again stick to her being better than summer bird or macho again otherwise you're swimming upstream here.

Trout swim :eek: up stream and get to their destination just fine:lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

I received similar scorn for not referring to Big Brown as an all time great last year. I was the one who had no appreciation for greatness even when it was right in front of my own eyes. Yea I really came out looking bad on that one. :lol:Theoretically, just what was it about Big Brown that made YOUR opinion correct over those who were calling him great?

He won the KD and the Preakness in VERY impressive fashion...his race in the Belmont Stakes was an absolutely aberration...a total clunker...as evidenced by the fact he came back and won the Haskell and then beat older males on the turf.

So if we both agree that the Belmont was a throwout race (like Holy Bull's Kentucky Derby), we have a 3yo who goes undefeated as a 3yo, runs lights out in the Florida Derby, Kentucky Derby and Preakness, then wins the Haskell in his comeback race, then onto the TURF over older males.

Not to reopen a whole can of worms, but your conclusion above is far from a slam dunk considering the actual facts of the case.

[ddog]

older males on the turf, there wasn't an older male in there who could run a lick.

great has been defined down , he was a good 3yo for a couple of races, that's it.

[Irish Boy]

Proudinsky came back to win at least one Grade II, right?

[ddog]

and that race was full of cr%p , right?



He was a decent 3yo for a couple of races.

Great - no way.

As I said - great is defined down , anything can now be great, to be great implies a long record of great races against superior horses (proudinsky-NOT) or a maybe an EXTREMELY BRILLIANT short career.

imo - neither applied.

Ra is a very good horse and I hope she continues to race NEXT year.
If she does and she beats up on 'em like this year then she is a great horse in my book.

[46zilzal]

older males on the turf, there wasn't an older male in there who could run a lick.

great has been defined down , he was a good 3yo for a couple of races, that's it.
When relativity has little Depth, from top to bottom, those on top of that weak heap get considerations far beyond the abilities as compared to the yardstick of historical quality of the thoroughbred greats.

GREATNESS is a Native Dancer, Fager, FOREGO etc. over an extended career, fighting injury, carrying big weight, against all comers at all distances .....

[Steve R]

The legendary John Nerud trained some pretty good horses in his 96 years of life including champions Dr. Fager, Delegate, Intentionally, Ta Wee and Dr, Patches as well as classic winner Gallant Man and major winners Who's for Dinner and Land Girl among many others. He also owned Cozzene, Fappiano and Funistrada. This is what he told Steve Haskin after the Woodward: "I think she’s the best I’ve ever seen. I don’t compare her to anyone. I’m not afraid to say she’s better than Ruffian, because she is".

I've seen every top class filly or mare since the Native Dancer era, and I would put Rachel Alexandra at least among the top half dozen.

This never-ending argument is simply a waste of everyone's time. The opinions of ghostyapper and his few, pitiful allies don't amount to a heap of dog poo. Racing experts and racing historians around the world are almost unanimous in their praise of the filly and compare her favorably to the best fillies and mares ever to race in North America. Debate is only useful when both sides are knowledgeable.

[ghostyapper]

Theoretically, just what was it about Big Brown that made YOUR opinion correct over those who were calling him great?

He won the KD and the Preakness in VERY impressive fashion...his race in the Belmont Stakes was an absolutely aberration...a total clunker...as evidenced by the fact he came back and won the Haskell and then beat older males on the turf.

So if we both agree that the Belmont was a throwout race (like Holy Bull's Kentucky Derby), we have a 3yo who goes undefeated as a 3yo, runs lights out in the Florida Derby, Kentucky Derby and Preakness, then wins the Haskell in his comeback race, then onto the TURF over older males.

Not to reopen a whole can of worms, but your conclusion above is far from a slam dunk considering the actual facts of the case.

It's pretty simple really. Would you rank him in your top 5 all time? Top 10? Top 20? Is he even better than holy bull? Is he even better than barbaro?

All of this was a foregone conclusion while he was running. Now? Most people didn't even put him in their top 5 since 2000!!!!!

[ghostyapper]

The legendary John Nerud trained some pretty good horses in his 96 years of life including champions Dr. Fager, Delegate, Intentionally, Ta Wee and Dr, Patches as well as classic winner Gallant Man and major winners Who's for Dinner and Land Girl among many others. He also owned Cozzene, Fappiano and Funistrada. This is what he told Steve Haskin after the Woodward: "I think she’s the best I’ve ever seen. I don’t compare her to anyone. I’m not afraid to say she’s better than Ruffian, because she is".

I've seen every top class filly or mare since the Native Dancer era, and I would put Rachel Alexandra at least among the top half dozen.

This never-ending argument is simply a waste of everyone's time. The opinions of ghostyapper and his few, pitiful allies don't amount to a heap of dog poo. Racing experts and racing historians around the world are almost unanimous in their praise of the filly and compare her favorably to the best fillies and mares ever to race in North America. Debate is only useful when both sides are knowledgeable.

"I've never seen anything like him since I've been training," Baffert gushed Sunday. "Everyone's been waiting for the next Secretariat-type horse, and we got him. He's going to do it."

[Imriledup]

Does anyone think Rachel is done for her career? I know its not likely, but if she's done for this year and then they decide its financially better to retire her or not risk her legacy, they may come up with a phantom injury and we won't see her anymore.


Anyone think this is possible?

[thespaah]

Does anyone think Rachel is done for her career? I know its not likely, but if she's done for this year and then they decide its financially better to retire her or not risk her legacy, they may come up with a phantom injury and we won't see her anymore.


Anyone think this is possible?There was thread that discussed outsdtanding race fillies and mare and their inability to produce grate racing offspring. Some even failed to conceive at all.
Perhaps it's anecdotal. I'd have to se stas on this.
But for a moment let's say RA is in that category.
And her connections play this angle. In that scenario,I'd say she'll keep racing.
Now, given the financial implications, If I were the proud owner of RA, I'd keep racing her as long as she was healthy and happy. But if the right offer came along to sell her for breeding stock, CA CHING!

[PaceAdvantage]

"I've never seen anything like him since I've been training," Baffert gushed Sunday. "Everyone's been waiting for the next Secretariat-type horse, and we got him. He's going to do it."Are we going to debate the merits of Baffert vs. Nerud next?

[PaceAdvantage]

It's pretty simple really. Would you rank him in your top 5 all time? Top 10? Top 20? Is he even better than holy bull? Is he even better than barbaro?

All of this was a foregone conclusion while he was running. Now? Most people didn't even put him in their top 5 since 2000!!!!!Would a three-year-old need to be ranked in top 5 ALL TIME to be considered a great 3yo?

Or would he need to devastate the competition consistently (like Big Brown did in the Fla Derby, KD and Preakness) while also doing some unusual things (like BB also did...beating older on the Turf)?

There is no right or wrong answer in this case...which is why I believe your conclusion is not a slam dunk (neither is mine).

[thespaah]

Are we going to debate the merits of Baffert vs. Nerud next?John Nerud? Is that guy still actively training?
I remember seeing his name on the program when the Meadowlands ran it's first T-Bred meet.....In 1977

[Hank]

The legendary John Nerud trained some pretty good horses in his 96 years of life including champions Dr. Fager, Delegate, Intentionally, Ta Wee and Dr, Patches as well as classic winner Gallant Man and major winners Who's for Dinner and Land Girl among many others. He also owned Cozzene, Fappiano and Funistrada. This is what he told Steve Haskin after the Woodward: "I think she’s the best I’ve ever seen. I don’t compare her to anyone. I’m not afraid to say she’s better than Ruffian, because she is".

I've seen every top class filly or mare since the Native Dancer era, and I would put Rachel Alexandra at least among the top half dozen.

This never-ending argument is simply a waste of everyone's time. The opinions of ghostyapper and his few, pitiful allies don't amount to a heap of dog poo. Racing experts and racing historians around the world are almost unanimous in their praise of the filly and compare her favorably to the best fillies and mares ever to race in North America. Debate is only useful when both sides are knowledgeable.


:lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

John Nerud? Is that guy still actively training?
I remember seeing his name on the program when the Meadowlands ran it's first T-Bred meet.....In 1977So you're saying we should dismiss his opinion on the matter?

What an odd thing to do.

[ghostyapper]

So you're saying we should dismiss his opinion on the matter?

What an odd thing to do.

No we're saying his opinion should not put to rest any doubt about rachel's all time greatness, like some on here want to do.

Whenever there's a talented horse running there's always some legend of the game that is ready to call them the best ever. Ever hear bailey's opinions on bernardini before the bc?

Bill Walsh said Jay Cutler was the next Joe Montana :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Your assumption is that they are all going to be wrong in their opinion?

Again...odd...

[ghostyapper]

Your assumption is that they are all going to be wrong in their opinion?

Again...odd...

No my point (which I thought was pretty clear) is just because legend X makes a statement does not mean it is automatically right.

John Nerud saying she is the best ever does not mean she is or that she will be in the gate on jcgc day.