what does stamine look like in the data

[bisket]

heres the formulator pps for the pac classic. first you have to know how to use them. the first thing i do is make sure the odds are not included in the pps. so point your arrow to options and click. if theres a check mark along side "morning line odds" or "live odds" point your arrow to these two features and click to remove them. you never want to know the odds before you choose your horse. now at the options menu make sure theirs no ckeck alongside "incremental splits" or "this horse" if there is click to remove this feature. you are now looking at pps that you normally get from drf. i usually print these. now look at richards kid and look at all his races. if you notice EVERY ONE OF HIS RACES ARE AT SHORTER DISTANCES THAN THE PAC CLASSIC AND RICH HAS NEVER LOST GROUND DURING A RACE. HE ALWAYS PLACE FORWARDLY AT THE END OF A RACE IN RELATION TO THE BEGINNING NO MATTER HOW FAR HE RAN. now point your arrow to options and click on "incremental splits" and then click on "this horse". you now have every split this horse ran in every on of his races. these splits are times for any of the following distances during the race depending on the distance of the race. any times around 12 seconds is for 1 furlong, times near 24 seconds are for 2 furs, times around 30 seconds are for 2 1/2 furs, and times around 48 seconds are for 4 furs. you will notice all of richards times are around 12 second furs no matter how long the race was. if a horse always moves forwardly in a race and his times for the last splits in a race are around 12 second per furlong or better he's a stamina type horse. speed horses always run faster splits at the beginning and slower splits at the end. stamina the opposite. on top of that a general knowledge of stallions and mares will lead you to conclude whether a horse is from a stamina or speed line. most times theres a combination. well lemon drop kid was an established router in his career, and his dam is from broad brush who is stamina also. as baffert said in his interview after the race rich can run all day.
http://drf.com/formulator-web/free-race.go?trackId=DMR&country=USA&raceDate=20090906&dayEvening=D&raceNumber=9#past-performance-race/9

[Greyfox]

I don't doubt what you are saying makes sense.
But its "Gleek" to me.
I flat bet Richard's Kid to win.
Baffert sent two horses. One was the supposed rabbit.
Richard's Kid, in excellent condition, was the hound, eventhough Espinoza jumped off him. (He had a role to play.)
Richard's Kid paid $ 50 and change. Soft entrys always have to be considered.
When Baffert does that, prefer the higher odds runner.

[kenwoodallpromos]

"if a horse always moves forwardly in a race and his times for the last splits in a race are around 12 second per furlong or better he's a stamina type horse."
As far as 24 splits, you do know you are talking about Giacomo, right?
That perfectly would be 1:12 (1:09 is 11.5 seconds per furlong, acceptable also!); 1:36; 2:00; 2:24, close to TC records, sealed or rolled tracks, or stakes horses.

[Tom]

Does stamina come in paragraphs?

[bisket]

"if a horse always moves forwardly in a race and his times for the last splits in a race are around 12 second per furlong or better he's a stamina type horse."
As far as 24 splits, you do know you are talking about Giacomo, right?
That perfectly would be 1:12 (1:09 is 11.5 seconds per furlong, acceptable also!); 1:36; 2:00; 2:24, close to TC records, sealed or rolled tracks, or stakes horses.
look i'm giving a rough estimate of the figure that you want to see. exact times are relative only to the race that was run. an exact time won't transition from one race to another. trying to achieve this is wizzing into the wind!!!!! which is why using speed figs as the holy bible of handicapping is wizzing into the wind!!!!! when you begin to use a horses actual times for splits relative to the pace times you get a better idea of how a race was run. you can judge how fast a horse is by how he performs against the company he keeps. this horse moved backwards in the stretch only twice in 3 years in 18 races. which says to me he was capable of more. i can tell you dick small didn't train this horse as hard as he's been worked the past 3 months. the horse STILL MOVED FORWARDLY INSPIGHT OF THE UPGRADE IN COMPETITION. baffert horses have peak performances first two races off the bench or first two race he has them. i could tell this guy was a stud because his first race was average like his others regardless of the surface (turf) so i threw it out. baffert trains his routers like sprinters so its first two off the bench for him. in rich's 1 1/2 mile prep for this it was a nice EVEN race. when a horse runs evenly it says to me next one is a big one. now this is analyzed in the same scope with the baffert form angle and the fact the horse was begging for more ground for 3 years!!!! you have to throw out where a horse finishes in a race sometimes. today's handicappers have this horse must win mentality that hinders their judgement. horses lose its part of the game. imop there was rich's kid before the cougar2 and rich's kid after it!!! da bisket will have you scratching your head sometimes, but get use to it :cool: . da bisket can spot an improver in race, and he's always on it. there was summer bird before the haskell and summer bird after the haskell. there was macho again before the preakness and mach again after the preakness!!! just to list a few. i had iwr in the cash call last december, but he was blocked mid stretch and just missed!! i love three year olds in the spring. thats what i live for.

[bisket]

Does stamina come in paragraphs?

sometimes

[bisket]

"if a horse always moves forwardly in a race and his times for the last splits in a race are around 12 second per furlong or better he's a stamina type horse."
As far as 24 splits, you do know you are talking about Giacomo, right?
That perfectly would be 1:12 (1:09 is 11.5 seconds per furlong, acceptable also!); 1:36; 2:00; 2:24, close to TC records, sealed or rolled tracks, or stakes horses.
the only horse that actually achieved faster fractions at every call was secrateriat in derby. the ultimate stamine horse of all time

[Greyfox]

the only horse that actually achieved faster fractions at every call was secrateriat in derby. the ultimate stamine horse of all time

The phenomena happens in turf routes too.

[bisket]

The phenomena happens in turf routes too.
thats a whole new ball game. turf is basically 10 horses gunning for 4 different holes in the herd in the stretch. whoever gets to it first wins most times. i was really only refering to dirt, but thanks for pointing that out so others don't get the wrong idea.
on rich's kid. if you remove where he finished in his races for the past 3 years. you could see he was only fooling around with his competition in his races. i'm sorry a horse doesn't have that type of line in the pps if he's not better than what he's running against win or lose. the key was he beat bullsbay. his loss to that horse was in the mud, and he still had similar lines in his stakes losses. you just had to see if baffert got through to him. i thought it appeared he did. that plus delmar surface is weird and none of the top horses raced on it in top competition. it was a spot to bet a flyer.

[BIG HIT]

Look at race all you say is true.But he never finish in money in graded event same or lower grade.Which would have lead me to doubt his placement plus his pace fig progressively slower along with spd fig.Not disputeing fact as he won.But the above are why did not bet him.Are you saying stamina alone is why he won.Others in there were well bred and showed stamina.Bisket this is more when to bet stamina question.

[bisket]

bigD believe it or not your part of the reason i liked him. the horse didn't give up ground for 3 years!!! i just thought he was better than he was running against, but for some reason or another dick small couldn't get the ability out of him, and it looked like possibly baffert did. stamina just wins on poly. it was only part of the equation. a poster asked me to explain what stamina looked like in the pps so this is why i started the thread. i thought between myself and others it could be explained to that poster. nice to see you. oso is frustrated, but it happens to all of us.

[bisket]

it almost happened to me in this same race. shooo!!

[bisket]

bigD stamina is only one of the reasons i liked him. i just though he was ready to step up. i knew his grandaddy well and he was a much better horse at 4 than 3. there were lots of reasons why. this is to answer your question. hang in there bigD your a good handicapper and i've seen you hit many like this. it'll happen again!!

[bisket]

good hit greyfox. i'm glad some others saw what i did

[BIG HIT]

Bisket you had nice touch.On breeding i know very little condition side he looked good.Thanks for reply l lovem long to you and others that hadem sharp hdcp and you deserve the spoil's

[46zilzal]

Stamina= the ability to run in energy distributions of 65-66 % median. Nice to have a functional definition at hand.

[WinterTriangle]

Thanks for posting this, Bisket. ;)

[bisket]

winter here is another good example. the best time of year to use this way of distinguishing whether a horse just needs to race at longer distances, or is just slow, is the lead up to the triple crown races. as two year olds most horses only race past a mile at the end of the year. so most of your winners of these 2 year old races aren't stamina horses. when it gets to december through april most of these 2 year olds will be your favorites in most of the preps. just about every one of these are suspect. the actual horses that really have a chance at winning the derby, and these race at 1 1/16 mile and 1 1/8 mile, are the horses who finished 3rd, 4th, or 5th in the sprints as a 2 year old. heres the past performances for the rb lewis. look at i want revenges results in every sprint he ran in. moving forwardly at the end of every sprint. then he breaks his maiden in his first route. in the cash call i was all over him and he only lost because he was blocked for a period of time in the stretch. i got himat 6 1/2 to 1 in that race!!!! he had 1 win in 4 races so nobody liked him. all he needed was more ground. one of the posters earlier in this thread picks his contenders for the derby by eliminating any horse that loses ground in the stretch. doesn't matter if the horse wins or loses. it works!!! heres the pps for the rblewis and look at what i saw before the cash call, and thats what i used to play iwr. I DIDN'T LOOK AT ONE SPEED FIGURE!!!!
http://drf.com/tc/kentuckyderby/2009/pps/09SARobertBLewis.pdf